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Tiger Titan [48458]
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I continue to be impressed by Mayor Pete
Oct 21, 2019, 9:47 AM
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it is so novel to see a politician with and a brain...and use it.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: I continue to be impressed by Mayor Pete
Oct 21, 2019, 9:51 AM
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Yeah he would have my vote. He is by far the best off all of them...including Trump.
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All-Time Great [96905]
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Sneaky Pete.
Oct 21, 2019, 10:24 AM
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He will institute the next step toward socialism.
How to catch wild pigs. Strew corn on the ground in the same location for a while. Build one fence leg beside the area where you strew corn. When they feed there with ease build a connecting side to the fence...include an opening on the final side of the fence.
Install a gate at the opening and when they continue to enter the fence to feed you can close the gate.
Imo, 'medicare for any who want it,' is the final section enclosing Americans' feeding area. The GND will be the gate.
Yeah, I'm impressed with Sneaky Pete.
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Tiger Titan [48458]
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Mitch McConnel won't let that one through***
Oct 21, 2019, 10:46 AM
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All-Time Great [96905]
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Mitch might not hold the gavel for ever.
Oct 21, 2019, 12:03 PM
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As the POTUS seat goes so goes the congress. And yes, I believe these dems when promises. I didn't believe Obama sought to fundamentally change America but I got woke.
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Ring of Honor [21126]
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Re: Sneaky Pete.
Oct 21, 2019, 12:12 PM
[ in reply to Sneaky Pete. ] |
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He will institute the next step toward socialism.
How to catch wild pigs. Strew corn on the ground in the same location for a while. Build one fence leg beside the area where you strew corn. When they feed there with ease build a connecting side to the fence...include an opening on the final side of the fence.
Install a gate at the opening and when they continue to enter the fence to feed you can close the gate.
Imo, 'medicare for any who want it,' is the final section enclosing Americans' feeding area. The GND will be the gate.
Yeah, I'm impressed with Sneaky Pete.
Yeah, God forbid Pete implements what pretty much is working wonderfully across Europe and in places like Canada, Australia, and Costa Rica.
Affordable health care! So socialistic!
Our health care system as it stands is an abomination, and that combo of public/private he's proposing has been shown repeatedly to be the most cost-effective.
We're behind. Badly. In every relevant statistic - quality of care, cost of care, outcomes...even our average life expectancy is falling well behind other developed nations. Star-spangled awesome.
If you're defending the train wreck we have now, I question your sanity, not just your intelligence. And Trump just wants to set fire to what's left of the Affordable Health Care Act, without any plan whatsoever to replace it...which is just an astoundingly good idea - hey, let's let the insurance companies do what they want with no regulation whatsoever, because we can trust them!
What planet are you from, anyhow?
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TigerNet Immortal [164151]
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Re: Sneaky Pete.
Oct 21, 2019, 1:03 PM
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I think it would be equally understandable to question the the sanity and intelligence of anyone who considers our meaningful metrics to be anywhere close to analagous to Canada, Australia, or Costa Rica, much less uses them as proof that such a system would work (be preferable even) in the USA.
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All-TigerNet [11131]
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If you want a wider statistical survery
Oct 21, 2019, 1:12 PM
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here are a few more countries that have universal healthcare. Not that they are ALL shining examples, but there is more than enough evidence that it can work in the US. The fact that it is the standard in the civilized world should dispel any notion that it wouldn't work.
Albania, Algeria, Andorra, Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Australia, Austria Bahamas, Bahrain, Barbados, Belarus, Belgium, Belize, Bhutan, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Botswana, Brazil, Brunei Darussalam, Bulgari, Burkina Faso,Canada, Chile, China, Colombia, Cook Islands, Costa Rica, Croatia, Cuba, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Ecuador, Eritrea, Estonia Fiji, Finland, France, Gabon, Georgia, Germany, Ghana, Greece, Guernsey, Guyana, Hong Kong, Hungary Iceland, Iran, Isle of Man, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Jersey, Kazakhstan, Kiribati, Kuwait,Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Macau, Macedonia, Malaysia, Maldives, Malta, Mauritius, Mexico, Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, Namibia, Netherlands, New Zealand, Niue, Oman,Pakistan, Palau, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Romania, Russia, Rwanda, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Samoa, San Marino, Saudi Arabia, Serbia, Seychelles, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Korea, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, Thailand, Timor-Leste, Tonga, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, Tuvalu, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, Uruguay, Uzbekistan, Vanuatu, Venezuela,Zambia
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TigerNet Immortal [164151]
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It doesn't dispel any such notion.
Oct 21, 2019, 1:33 PM
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We have problems and "pre-existing conditions" with our system that they don't have. You are playing whack-a-mole if you think you can just simply implement it here without massive issues.
Our cost per person today is roughly double any of theirs, with 25-ish percent of it going to administrative costs. Sucks right? So the issue is multi-faceted---1) when did nationalizing private industry ever make it more efficient? 2) How much joblessness would you create by firing all the dead weight currently in the healthcare system?
But let's continue on a quest to cut health care costs. A big part of that is eliminating what providers are paid. Nationally we already have a health care provider shortage, from the most skilled Dr's to entry-level nurse assistants. If we start slashing the take-home pay of those folks (which we would) do you see the existing shortage increasing or decreasing?
But let's say Dr's don't mind a major pay cut. How do they afford the malpractice insurance, which is a necessity quite unique to the US among all the countries you listed, and can run into 6 figures per practice? Do you see the same bunch of Democrats in power (which would be required for UHC to become reality) turning against the massive voting bloc of attorneys who do quite well from the current arrangement? If so, what color is the sky in your world?
But let's say that Dems totally reform malpractice rules and regulations while they're at it. We currently spend $1T+ on Medicare and Medicaid. The total private health care market in the US is something like $3.5T. Let's say we trim that down thorough this magic efficiency to $2T....how are we absorbing that additional cost? Sure we can just print money, but enjoy the massive inflation. Of perhaps, more likely, we see massive tax increases to put this monstrously expensive program into play. Either way, much like with Obamacare, those who currently have insurance (far more Americans than not) aren't gonna see cost savings, and anyone saying otherwise can't do basic math.
So yeah, if about 500 little things all happen perfectly and the stars align, we'll end up with a system not much cheaper than what we now have, we'll just have the government running it. The problem with all those little things, is that almost any of them could give us a real ######## when they invariably fail.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: It doesn't dispel any such notion.
Oct 21, 2019, 1:36 PM
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The false idea of American exceptionalism sure does hold us back from a lot. We're not that much different from other places.
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TigerNet Immortal [164151]
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Well, that's one way to reply, with vague platitudes, or
Oct 21, 2019, 1:37 PM
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you could actually, you know, refute some of the points I raised.
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Heisman Winner [80549]
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All-Time Great [96905]
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Clemson Icon [24191]
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Clemson Icon [26944]
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"meaningful metrics"...? ### is that suppose too mean?***
Oct 21, 2019, 9:29 PM
[ in reply to Re: Sneaky Pete. ] |
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All-Time Great [96905]
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That's not so.
Oct 21, 2019, 2:52 PM
[ in reply to Re: Sneaky Pete. ] |
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AOC and Bernie are being dishonest.
"Democratic Socialists have presented Denmark as the elusive nation where socialism has been successful, and thus a model for the policies they would implement in the United States. Bernie Sanders regularly invoked Denmark during the 2016 presidential campaign, and Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez reassured 60 Minutes viewers that her version of democratic socialism would veer more toward Denmark than Venezuela.
Just weeks ago a free-market think tank in Denmark, the Center for Political Studies (CEPOS), issued a 20-page report telling Americans that 1) Denmark is not a socialist nation; and 2) statist policies have still caused significant economic harm.
Denmark is not socialist
The 20-page report notes that, by some measures, Denmark and the Nordic “socialist” countries have more economic freedom than the United States..."
https://acton.org/publications/transatlantic/2019/01/17/denmark-american-leftists-were-not-socialist
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Clemson Icon [26944]
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Bernie "invoked" Denmark as an example of nationalized
Oct 21, 2019, 9:34 PM
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healthcare... Socialism is what detractors attached to his proposal. Perhaps you so intuitively just proved his point.
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All-TigerNet [11131]
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The best reality TV ever would be Mayor Pete
Oct 21, 2019, 11:12 AM
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on the debate stage with Trump. Question on the economy, Pete would give an educated and concise rundown on Keynesian, Friedmanite, and Fisherian theory and how it applies to our situation.
Trump, "You're a short, mouthy little pheggot, aren't you?"
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All-Time Great [96905]
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Trump won't dare bring up UE numbers, Wall Street growth...
Oct 21, 2019, 12:08 PM
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wage increases and ask if Americans are better off now than when he took office.
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Clemson Sports Icon [57618]
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I'm actually not better off now than when he took office.
Oct 21, 2019, 12:20 PM
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Not that he would've had my vote anyway, but this supposedly awesome economy ain't working for everybody.
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All-Time Great [96905]
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Perhaps you should go to work.
Oct 21, 2019, 1:05 PM
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J/k, you are the exception, typically the working class is better off now that three years ago.
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TigerNet Immortal [164151]
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All-Time Great [96905]
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You know better than to get between a man and his car.
Oct 21, 2019, 2:45 PM
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You tryna get shot or what?
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All-TigerNet [11131]
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And Mayor Pete wouldn't dare bring up how the
Oct 21, 2019, 12:59 PM
[ in reply to Trump won't dare bring up UE numbers, Wall Street growth... ] |
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Obama administration left the economy humming along in great shape, set up like a bowling pin, which Trump promptly knocked down with an infusion of crack corporate cash and tax cuts for the wealthy. How there is zero manufacturing growth now and the wage gap is as wide as it has been since the depression. And the fact that barely 50% of Americans have any stake in the stock market makes Wall St indices a poor indicator of economic performance.
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All-Time Great [96905]
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Obama is a genius and it was all a plot.
Oct 21, 2019, 1:08 PM
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Somehow he knew America would elect a president who would cut taxes and stimulate the economy by undoing nearly everything he did. Obama set this up so sweetly.
He didn't want 3.5 UE when he was in office or consumer and business confidence to soar so he strapped Trump with all that. I didn't see that coming.
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All-TigerNet [11131]
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We'll see how you feel about Trump's
Oct 21, 2019, 1:14 PM
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crack-addled economy in another 12 months.
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All-Time Great [96905]
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Remember the term JIT in marketing?
Oct 21, 2019, 2:46 PM
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Just In Time for the elections.
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Ring of Honor [21126]
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Re: I continue to be impressed by Mayor Pete
Oct 21, 2019, 12:02 PM
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Pete would be my overwhelming choice right now. I think he's what America needs at the moment - a capable, intelligent moderate who can appeal to both sides of the fence and talk everyone off the ledge.
Truthfully, in another era, I don't even know that he would have been a Democrat, but the GOP has drifted so far into populism there isn't any room left in the middle. But right now there's acres of room in among the extremists on either flank and while technically Mayor Pete's in the same lane as Biden he's a lot more of an actual progressive...and head to head, I think he crushes Trump going away.
Warren frightens me a bit. I like a lot of Warren's policies...but the problem I have with her is that while her anti-trust, anti-big-business ideas are highly necessary and are going to guide a lot of progressive policy for awhile, she tacks too far left on things like Medicare For All - what the eff, lady, you're an economist! - and she snuggles up to trendy liberal causes like Reparations for Slavery that are pure wrongheaded idiocy and are likely to blow her up in the general election. A lot of her proposals are also experimental - and while they sound like good ideas, I'm highly mistrustful of implementing unproven policies on a national level; that Law of Unintended Consequences thing and all. You never really know how they'll work.
Warren's also planning to storm the mega-corp bastion head-on...and that means more bitter, vicious acrimony. I cannot even imagine how hard the GOP would fight her, and you think we're gridlocked now and our politics are dirty now...wait until Warren starts smacking around the GOP's big-money donors. Blood in the gutters. Maybe literally.
I question how much she'd really get done - if the GOP maintains the Senate, the answer is nothing! - whereas I think Buttigieg would be able to effectively work both sides of the aisle and get a lot more accomplished; I think his style is such he might - might! - be able to uproot McConnell and get a Senate willing to compromise again, and hopefully change the general tenor of our politics.
If it's Warren, it's going to be all-out war. And wars are bloody.
Just my .02. But I like Mayor Pete a lot and I think he'd actually be a good candidate, and I haven't seen one of those in awhile.
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Tiger Titan [48963]
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#### I'm gonna have to check out his platforms now***
Oct 21, 2019, 12:32 PM
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National Champion [8025]
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Ring of Honor [21126]
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Re: Still relevant
Oct 21, 2019, 12:16 PM
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The first thing he'll do if he wins the nomination is grab Stacey Abrams as his running mate. Can almost guarantee it. He knows where his weak point is.
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Tiger Titan [48458]
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excellent point***
Oct 21, 2019, 12:20 PM
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Tiger Titan [48458]
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they're still all-in with Biden. that can change.
Oct 21, 2019, 12:17 PM
[ in reply to Still relevant ] |
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to the extent his sexual orientation is a concern, that's not going to change but should be a wake-up call for the DNC if true
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National Champion [8025]
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Re: they're still all-in with Biden. that can change.
Oct 21, 2019, 2:06 PM
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Hopefully Joe drops out soon and we can find out.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: I continue to be impressed by Mayor Pete
Oct 21, 2019, 12:42 PM
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This isn't targeted directly at you, so much, but it's interesting that probably the two most educated and well-spoken people to run for President lately are Clinton and Warren. But people are amazed when a male politician sounds smart.
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Tiger Titan [48458]
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Re: I continue to be impressed by Mayor Pete
Oct 21, 2019, 1:10 PM
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I've never thought Hillary or Warren were particularly well spoken. But where Mayor Pete triumphs over those two is logic. He is able to credibly connect the dots on the fly without stumbling whereas the two you cite are all talking points just like most politicians.
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All-TigerNet [11131]
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I think this ability will be more pronounced when there
Oct 21, 2019, 1:20 PM
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are fewer candidates in the conversation. Creating logical conclusions takes longer than a series of one minute answers and thirty second rebuttals on a debate stage.
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Orange Immortal [60509]
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in the Socialist primary, no one mentions his being gay.
Oct 21, 2019, 1:17 PM
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But it'd be a deal breaker in a general election.
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Tiger Titan [48458]
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I don't think so. the homophobes already have their guy
Oct 21, 2019, 1:19 PM
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and werent going to cross the aisle anyway
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Clemson Sports Icon [57618]
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All-In [48078]
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Re: They don't mention it because no one cares.***
Oct 21, 2019, 6:08 PM
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In the general election they would.
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All-Time Great [96905]
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It might be whispered in someone's ear or spoken behind...
Oct 21, 2019, 7:11 PM
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a closed door and I think it will be a factor to some people. Personally, I've supported Gov not having a say in who marries what. Imo, it's not within the government's power to tell any American who they can or can't marry. The records will show that I've had this position for a long, long time.
Before I realized government has limits I simply didn't give a chit what other people did. If the gov wants to take away tax breaks from married gays they should take all tax breaks from every married couple.
What business is it of government to tell me who I can and can't marry? That's between me and God.
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All-Time Great [96905]
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That's mostly right but falls a bit short of a complete...
Oct 21, 2019, 7:06 PM
[ in reply to They don't mention it because no one cares.*** ] |
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answer.
They don't mention it because Sneaky Pete will play the victim card and social justice warriors will take to twitter to destroy whoever brings focus to Pete's homosexual life.
I doubt many care enough to go through anything like that.
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CU Guru [1405]
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All-In [26968]
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CU Medallion [50635]
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7***
Oct 21, 2019, 2:40 PM
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Tiger Titan [49856]
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All-Time Great [96905]
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All-In [10409]
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he has no chance, aint crooked enough***
Oct 21, 2019, 4:12 PM
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All-Time Great [96905]
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Uh, no one wants to be the person to uncover...
Oct 21, 2019, 7:13 PM
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corruption, if there is any, of a a gay candidate for the dem nomination. Can you imagine the chit a reporter would get if he did? It would undo his career.
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Clemson Icon [26944]
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DNC establishment lackie... No go on Buttgig...***
Oct 21, 2019, 9:41 PM
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Replies: 50
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