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National Champion [8049]
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Recruiting The Stars. Something Some Of You Are Missing!
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Oct 15, 2024, 7:09 PM
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This post is dedicated to those who keep complaining about recruiting!
Please, just stop!
The world didn't come to an end after we lost Demarcus Bowman, Robert Nkemdiche, Malachi Dupree or Jerrion Ealy.
In each one of these examples, Clemson took lower rated players who ended up being good enough to be All Conference at minimum and all were DRAFTED TO THE NFL.
A lot of ya'll have never heard of these players - but they were all very close to being Clemson Tigers! They went elsewhere last minute and "Clemson survived" and in multiple examples - Clemson Thrived at the position we supposedly "missed out on"!
Dabo has shown a real talent for underrated players and I think it continues with some of the players we are recruiting. If you are one who is only satisfied with a 4 or 5-star player - "you are asleep at the wheel" when it comes to your knowledge of Recent success for Clemson football.
In 2016 - composite Freshman to Grad player rating on a National Championship winning team was 11th best. In 2015 - when we challenged and could have easily won we were 13th.
In 2018 Clemson was only 9th best. It is not about getting "a bunch of them"! It's getting the right mix of "highly-rated players(I agree you have to have some) and really good underrated players others missed. It's what Clemson has done the best I.M.O since Dabo got Clemson on it's current run of excellence.
I am not going to overreact because we lost a QB or a DL(we deep at DL). During the Summer there was talk that Pearman might be the best option at QB(walk-on - 3-star). BTW, Baker Mayfield was a 3-star as well. So was Josh Allen! So was Russell Wilson who was a 2-star!(see link). Current Panthers QB Andy Dalton was a 3-star.
Not worth sounding the alarm with all the panic talk around recruiting given Clemson's consistent success developing players.
Clemson NFL players that were not big-time 4 and 5-star players include:
K'von Wallace
Hunter Renfrow
Baylong Spector
Tanner Muse
Tremaine Anchrum
Cordrea Tankersley
Travis Etienne(Rivals)
Isiah Simmons
Jordan McFadden
Grady Jarrett
Vic Beasley(came to CU as a TE)
Ruke Ororhoro
https://247sports.com/Player/Jerrion-Ealy-91219/
https://247sports.com/Player/Jordan-McFadden-45572776/high-school-181621/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow ugc">https://n.rivals.com/content/athletes/travis-etienne-14954?view=pvhttps://247sports.com/Player/Jordan-McFadden-45572776/high-school-181621/
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1723596-how-russell-wilson-improbably-became-a-top-nfl-talent#:~:text=Coming%20out%20of%20high%20school%2C%20Wilson%20was%20a,67th-best%20quarterback%20in%20his%20class%2C%20according%20to%20Scout.com.
Message was edited by: HillRockTiger®
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National Champion [7143]
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Re: Recruiting The Stars. Something Some Of You Are Missing!
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Oct 15, 2024, 8:14 PM
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Hope the Blake Hebert situation ends up like the Justin Flowe sweepstakes and we hit on a Trenton Simpson-level stud at QB.
Korey Foreman was another sky is falling decootment to the real USC. Currently doing decent at Fresno State. But Fresno State is no Clemson, or USC for that matter.
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Rival Killer [3090]
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That is accurate history.
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Oct 15, 2024, 8:47 PM
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It also has zero relevance to the current situation.
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National Champion [8049]
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Re: That is accurate history.
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Oct 15, 2024, 9:07 PM
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It also has zero relevance to the current situation.
It doesn't you are correct in saying that. But, you miss the point if you do not understand, I am not saying it has to do with our current situation. My point is: "we've been here before where we MISSED on a recruit.
Anybody who has ever had to get a loan for whatever reason knows: "they check what you have done in the past to help predict what you are likely to do in the future"!
And, really, that is the gist of what, I am saying. Nothing that has happened to date says: "go into panic mode as a fan"! Some of these player CU missed on turned out to be "good misses".
12 scholarship seniors on the roster currently. So, the recruiting class isn't going to be ginormous. Sure, we are going to lose some players to attrition, that all schools face.
We are still alright - even with some recent decommits.
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Rival Killer [3090]
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I'm not missing the point. The history isn't relevant.
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Oct 16, 2024, 6:58 AM
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There is no transitive property from pre transfer/NIL to the current situation.
You're pointing out something that simply doesn't matter to the Hebert decomittment.
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110%er [3778]
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Re: I'm not missing the point. The history isn't relevant.
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Oct 16, 2024, 7:36 AM
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I don't agree with you often but you nailed this. There is zero in common with losing recruits in the past to why we are losing them now.
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Clemson Icon [24892]
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Rival Killer [3090]
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Your drool bucket is overflowing.
Oct 17, 2024, 2:57 PM
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Get your mommy to change it.
Oh, and give back the GED.
You didn't earn it.
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Orange Beast [6457]
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National Champion [8049]
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Re: I'm not missing the point. The history isn't relevant.
Oct 17, 2024, 12:12 PM
[ in reply to I'm not missing the point. The history isn't relevant. ] |
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There is no transitive property from pre transfer/NIL to the current situation.
You're pointing out something that simply doesn't matter to the Hebert decomittment.
I wasn't "pointing out the Hebert decommitment"!
You missed the point.
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Orange Phenom [14586]
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Re: That is accurate history.
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Oct 16, 2024, 5:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: That is accurate history. ] |
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Good post but losing 3 highly ranked(especially 2) was a decent % of our class. Impact players.
I'm not panicking whatsoever. I agree with you but it still gets me worked up. Rankings are the end all but we dropped somewhat around 11 spots. What? 26 now?
Composites are great but we really needed those particular 3.
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Orange Phenom [14586]
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Re: That is accurate history.
Oct 16, 2024, 5:59 PM
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(aren't the end all)
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National Champion [8049]
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Re: That is accurate history.
Oct 16, 2024, 6:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: That is accurate history. ] |
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Good post but losing 3 highly ranked(especially 2) was a decent % of our class. Impact players.
I'm not panicking whatsoever. I agree with you but it still gets me worked up. Rankings are the end all but we dropped somewhat around 11 spots. What? 26 now?
Composites are great but we really needed those particular 3.
I understand where you are coming from.
My only thing is this: "everyone who wants Dabo to Cherry pick portal players are also missing this as well. Many of the targets in the portal were what at one point? 3-star players who were developed at Albany University, Georgia Tech, Wake Forest, Duke, Liberty, North Texas, etc. All of those schools are among those who lost players who went on to a bigger school(who tampered with) the player who the 1st school took a chance on. Who, was a very good player in College Football. So much so, that College Coaches at Top 15 FBS schools covet them highly. All or the vast majority were lower ranked players out of high school".
I mention the above ZeeGantt® because, Clemson only has 12 scholarship Seniors on the team. You expect a few Juniors to move on the NFL or leave for more playing time opportunity. Something that happens everywhere even before NIL.
With so many schools utilizing the Transfer Portal and "not developing" it's own talent instead hoping other schools do that for them. They are basically leaving a lot of Really good 3-star players out there. The thing is: "everybody can't be a 3-star" what makes one player a 3 and another a 4 could be 100% "subjective" and not DATA driven at all.
My point is: Dabo has shown he has a high for good players regardless of what star rating they have. I think most people would be shocked to learn that Patrick Mahomes was a 3-star High School player wouldn't you?
But, he was, and why that was has everything to do with Subjectivity. The DATA on Dabo's record with 2 and 3-star players who make major impacts in Major College Football "IS NOT SUBJECTIVE"! The data shows he has a really good eye for underevaluated players. And, there are more out there than ever now that people are taking the TP shortcut.
Nolan Turner was supposedly a Friends and Family 2-star yet he sealed up a National Championship with an INT in the endzone of a 5-star QB.
Hunter Renfrow, Mr. 2-star sealed up a National Championship in 2016 after smoking Mr. 5-star CB for a TD.
Khalil Barnes was a 3-star and he came in as a Freshman and played so well; Mukuba could see the writing on the wall and he left. We will be fine.
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Head Coach [976]
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Commissioner [1240]
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Re: That is accurate history.
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Oct 16, 2024, 7:16 AM
[ in reply to That is accurate history. ] |
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That is the current situation...we broke the bank a Dabo could not wash the brown off his nose over the five star DJU...throw a ball through a brick wall etc..that top 5 star QB has cost 3 colleges whole football seasons...chase the bouquet and get what someone else loved! How has our team gotten in such terrible shape! Some folks never studied history!..Wonder how Bear Bryant or Bud Wilkinson got a team before 247 or some other fool was around with an opinion...they say that Frank Broyles set up a table at the commons on campus and he would pick students out of the crowd after they had enrolled! Novel idea...acquiring student athletes!
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All-Time Great [97799]
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History is our greatest teacher.
Oct 16, 2024, 7:18 AM
[ in reply to That is accurate history. ] |
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IDK why you avoid common sense, it's unnatural.
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Clemson Icon [24010]
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Re: Recruiting The Stars. Something Some Of You Are Missing!
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Oct 15, 2024, 8:52 PM
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All we need is...Howard's Rock Stars!
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National Champion [8049]
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Re: Recruiting The Stars. Something Some Of You Are Missing!
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Oct 15, 2024, 9:08 PM
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All we need is...Howard's Rock Stars!
LOL!
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Rival Killer [3090]
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Paw Warrior [4716]
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Re: Recruiting The Stars. Something Some Of You Are Missing!
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Oct 16, 2024, 6:54 AM
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Your thread’s subject reminded me of the early days of the NFL draft. Back when they had 30 or 40 rounds?? The Dallas Cowboys would have a number of high draft picks just like all the others but towards the end of their draft, their last 5 or 6 picks would be unknown names from everywhere but mostly from Division ll or lll teams. I’m getting up in age and my memory is fading but I believe a number of those became very successful in the pros. I don’t follow pro sports any longer but I do remember getting the newspaper and turning to the Dallas paragraph that listed their choices in the rounds they were drafted. They were very good at that and their history proves it. Reminds me of Dabo and his run of success at Clemson. The evidence is there for anyone that wants to read it!
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Tiger Spirit [9956]
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Re: Recruiting The Stars. Something Some Of You Are Missing!
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Oct 16, 2024, 8:11 AM
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Our coaches have done a good job of identifying and developing talent over the years. It has been an important aspect of our success but without the top tier talent, we would have not won two championships. We have lost two top tier linemen this cycle and also should have had a 5* OL except we were out bid. I believe the new agreement where schools pay players directly with a salary cap and monitored NIL will level the playing field. Without this agreement we were a program on the decline.
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National Champion [8049]
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Re: Recruiting The Stars. Something Some Of You Are Missing!
Oct 16, 2024, 5:50 PM
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jstone D329 I respectfully disagree we were a program on decline. I think we missed on a QB prospect and it's cost us.
2019 any normal college football team would have gotten beaten - but you had 4 to 6 All Pro players on that LSU offense.
The 2020 season we make it back to the CFP in a Covid-shortened season and ran into a well rested Ohio State team that had nothing but time to prepare for us!
DJU - 2021 "anchored" a 10 plus win season.
DJU - 2022 "anchored" a 10 plus win season.
Cade - 2023 won 9 games with a 1st year true sophomore starter at QB. 1st time in over a decade with less than 10 wins.
**You literally don't win National Championships every year! It just doesn't happen! If decline is not playing for or winning it - then maybe you're right. But, thats awful steep.
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Tiger Spirit [9956]
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Re: Recruiting The Stars. Something Some Of You Are Missing!
Oct 17, 2024, 8:25 AM
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jstone D329 I respectfully disagree we were a program on decline. I think we missed on a QB prospect and it's cost us. 2019 any normal college football team would have gotten beaten - but you had 4 to 6 All Pro players on that LSU offense. The 2020 season we make it back to the CFP in a Covid-shortened season and ran into a well rested Ohio State team that had nothing but time to prepare for us! DJU - 2021 "anchored" a 10 plus win season. DJU - 2022 "anchored" a 10 plus win season. Cade - 2023 won 9 games with a 1st year true sophomore starter at QB. 1st time in over a decade with less than 10 wins. **You literally don't win National Championships every year! It just doesn't happen! If decline is not playing for or winning it - then maybe you're right. But, thats awful steep.
You literally dont win champions at all without top shelf talent. Reread my comment:
I believe the new agreement where schools pay players directly with a salary cap and monitored NIL will level the playing field. Without this agreement we were a program on the decline.
Our recruiting at QB and DE specifically plus overall depth has taken a hit since NIL became the driving force in recruiting. Once Cade is done, we have CV and two 3* guys waiting in the wings. This is a far cry from the QB talent we had in years past. Recruiting has a downstream impact in terms of results. Without the new rules, we would certainly not be elite in 2026 and out. Hopefully the new rules will level the playing field so we can compete for the top talent without getting outbid.
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National Champion [8049]
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Re: Recruiting The Stars. Something Some Of You Are Missing!
Oct 17, 2024, 6:07 PM
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jstone D329 I respectfully disagree we were a program on decline. I think we missed on a QB prospect and it's cost us. 2019 any normal college football team would have gotten beaten - but you had 4 to 6 All Pro players on that LSU offense. The 2020 season we make it back to the CFP in a Covid-shortened season and ran into a well rested Ohio State team that had nothing but time to prepare for us! DJU - 2021 "anchored" a 10 plus win season. DJU - 2022 "anchored" a 10 plus win season. Cade - 2023 won 9 games with a 1st year true sophomore starter at QB. 1st time in over a decade with less than 10 wins. **You literally don't win National Championships every year! It just doesn't happen! If decline is not playing for or winning it - then maybe you're right. But, thats awful steep. You literally dont win champions at all without top shelf talent. Reread my comment: I believe the new agreement where schools pay players directly with a salary cap and monitored NIL will level the playing field. Without this agreement we were a program on the decline. Our recruiting at QB and DE specifically plus overall depth has taken a hit since NIL became the driving force in recruiting. Once Cade is done, we have CV and two 3* guys waiting in the wings. This is a far cry from the QB talent we had in years past. Recruiting has a downstream impact in terms of results. Without the new rules, we would certainly not be elite in 2026 and out. Hopefully the new rules will level the playing field so we can compete for the top talent without getting outbid.
Jstone d329 - Baker Mayfield in recent years. 3-star recruit.
Lamar Jackson was a fairly recent 3-star recruit.
The current Heisman front runner Cam Ward didn't have a dang grade.
You are 100% missing the point here. Jared Verse played at Albany Friend before setting CFB on Fire with how he came off the edge. Some years back 2-star Khalil Mack did the same exact thing at Buffalo. My point is: Dabo has had the eye for finding these gems like no other! So, even if we don't get Mr. 5-star - I think we will be fine with his ability to evaluate talent.
https://247sports.com/Player/Cam-Ward-46080717/
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Valley Protector [1433]
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Re: Recruiting The Stars. Something Some Of You Are Missing!
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Oct 16, 2024, 4:34 PM
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Thanks
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Game Day Hero [4424]
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Re: Recruiting The Stars. Something Some Of You Are Missing!
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Oct 16, 2024, 6:21 PM
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Not reading all that. I get your premise.
We haven't lost one we have lost 3 big name recruits with a couple more rumored to be on the fence due to NIL. We only offer NIL to retain players. When you lose those blue chip players this late in the game very difficult to go out and replace that type of player. We are low on the numbers. We will inevitably settle to fill out the class. It’s not just this class. Trending in the wrong direction since NIL started. Dabo may surprise us and start using the portal to supplement these misses. We’ll have to wait and see.
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Recruit [66]
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Re: Recruiting The Stars. Something Some Of You Are Missing!
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Oct 17, 2024, 8:40 AM
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You are correct in that we have in the past found some underrrated jewels that we developed and turbned into great ones. problem now though is that while we are signina 13 man class , the teams competing for titles are signing 20-25 man hauls and hitting the portal for numerous high level stars as well. the Ohio States, UGA, Oregon, Texas, Etc, are essentially adding 2x the playeers that we are. this is not sustainable for long before you see a decline in our talent level. I love Dabo and admire what he stands for but the current landscape of college football is different now than it was 3 years ago. you cant continue to let your competition add double the number of players each cycle that you do and expect to compete. for the record, I truly do not like where the game is headed but it is sad reality that Clemson must embrace to remain relevant. look at how quickly Miami restored their roster and returned to top ten caliber .
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National Champion [8049]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Recruiting The Stars. Something Some Of You Are Missing!
Oct 17, 2024, 12:23 PM
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You are correct in that we have in the past found some underrrated jewels that we developed and turbned into great ones. problem now though is that while we are signina 13 man class , the teams competing for titles are signing 20-25 man hauls and hitting the portal for numerous high level stars as well. the Ohio States, UGA, Oregon, Texas, Etc, are essentially adding 2x the playeers that we are. this is not sustainable for long before you see a decline in our talent level. I love Dabo and admire what he stands for but the current landscape of college football is different now than it was 3 years ago. you cant continue to let your competition add double the number of players each cycle that you do and expect to compete. for the record, I truly do not like where the game is headed but it is sad reality that Clemson must embrace to remain relevant. look at how quickly Miami restored their roster and returned to top ten caliber .
In my original post, I believe it was mentioned at least once or twice, we need High Caliber players as well. No getting around that.
My point is, Dabo has never worried about a kids star rating like that. He has never offered "every 5-star player out there. Please, look that up if you don't believe me.
I don't care if everyone else offered, if Dabo doesn't think the kid would fit here - they don't get an offer. **Side note: I think that is a part of why we get other teams best effort as well. Even if a kid was never going to come here - they likely feel like Clemson had the audacity not to offer as if I (the player) wasn't good enough.
So, it's never been a thing to offer all 4 and 5-star players. Clearly, Dabo has an eye for talent, much like Clawson at Wake. Which is why all his 3-stars he develops end up being coveted by the so called big boys you referenced.
My only thing is: "the sky isn't falling"! If it's a matter of how big you are - we as Clemson are already in a bad spot. Most people can see that.
I'm saying, based off what has happened, we have fielded teams with just that handful of high caliber coveted players and a bunch of underrated developed players and have competed at a high level. Beating teams with much more "on paper talent"! Beating or no less than competing with teams with much better on paper talent.
Ohio State is 1-4 All Time versus Clemson - I would wager Clemson has never had more 4 and 5-star players at any point than them. Portal players from small schools that everybody is breaking their necks to try and get Dabo to take - were not 4 and 5-star players. No. They are developed 3 and 2-star players. So, don't panic just yet, is all I am saying.
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