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TigerNet Zenith XVII [∞]
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QBs
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Nov 28, 2023, 4:08 PM
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With apologies to Francis Marion®
Yes, to me, depth is a concern. I am not sure that Vizzina progressed as much as some in the program would have liked, and to me it's imperative that the coaches go out and get a QB that can not only provide depth, but push both Cade and CV. It will be difficult to get a guy like that, because it's hard to sell the chance to play with two highly-recruited guys already on campus.
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All-Pro [703]
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Re: QBs
Nov 28, 2023, 4:11 PM
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Should just show this past year as evidence. May have been highly recruited but sure didn’t do anything at all worth the ranking
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All-Pro [763]
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Re: QBs
Nov 28, 2023, 6:53 PM
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What does it say about our program that 5 star qb after 5 star qb has not been able to progress in it lately.
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CU Medallion [18892]
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lol. You mean DJ? And only DJ? Seems like hes exactly the same at OSU
Nov 28, 2023, 10:24 PM
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To me? Same record. Same offense. Same limitations. How exactly would you say he’s progressed in Covalis? Cade is in his first year as starter with a limited roster so the story of his progression is TBD. I’d say that Trevor Lawrence, Deshaun Watson, and Taj Boyd progressed OK
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National Champion [7194]
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not a thing***
Nov 29, 2023, 7:33 AM
[ in reply to Re: QBs ] |
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Gridiron Giant [16038]
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Agree. But I think most good QBs think they can beat out Cade.
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Nov 28, 2023, 4:11 PM
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I'm not saying Cade won't be a great QB. I'm just saying that he did not have a good year and most good, competitive 20 year olds would not view Cade as a huge threat imo.
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Rival Killer [2696]
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Re: QBs
Nov 28, 2023, 4:18 PM
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Not sure why my post on portal QBs or recruiting flips got zapped, but...
is there any indication that we may still be in touch with DJ Lagway?
Billy Napier is on a very hot seat, fair or not, and has lost some commitments already.
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TigerNet Legend [147213]
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We'll discuss this issue a little more at the tnet...
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Nov 28, 2023, 4:21 PM
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administrator/moderator Christmas party next Saturday evening.
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Valley Legend [12717]
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Re: We'll discuss this issue a little more at the tnet...
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Nov 28, 2023, 4:27 PM
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I think it would be better if I just cancel the meeting and we just do what I say. This achieves 3 goals.
1. It saves money
2. We’ll get the correct decision
3. It saves everyone from having to see people they don’t want to see.
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Oculus Spirit [41854]
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Campus Hero [13570]
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TigerNet Champion [118207]
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you obviosuly wree not invited to the executive moderator meeting on the 18th
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Nov 28, 2023, 5:22 PM
[ in reply to We'll discuss this issue a little more at the tnet... ] |
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that is when dividend checks are handed out to those of us who actually generate ad revenue.
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All-TigerNet [6037]
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Re: QBs
1
Nov 28, 2023, 4:26 PM
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I’m on the outside looking in but Helms seemed much more fluid and smoother with the ball in his hands than did Cade. He seemed to look downfield better. Is this Deja Vu all over again after seeing our previous back up play well for App State?
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Clemson Conqueror [11880]
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Re: QBs
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Nov 28, 2023, 4:43 PM
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I love Cade and hate to even say this, but I really think we would have won more games with Hunter this year than Cade. He seemed more decisive accurate, and much smoother, although the sample size is so small that we really don't know. You have to think that the coaches saw things in practice that we did not see. That being said, how many times have we seen someone who was overlooked in practice excel when they get on the field. I am not sure that coaches always put the best players on the field, although that should be their intention ..... always.
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National Champion [7742]
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Our coaches are dead set on this RPO style offense
Nov 29, 2023, 6:50 AM
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And Hunter is more suited for a traditional pocket passing offense. I think this is the main reason Cade gets the nod. Even though a lot of our losses coukd be attributed to botched exchanges (duke) or bad decisions to pull the ball (Miami).
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Solid Orange [1365]
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Everybody's favorite player...
4
Nov 28, 2023, 5:14 PM
[ in reply to Re: QBs ] |
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QB2
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Game Day Hero [4573]
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Re: Everybody's favorite player...
Nov 28, 2023, 9:06 PM
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People say this all the time and it’s very cliche. The fact is when we had DW4 and TL16 no one said that. When our offense is as bad as it’s been lately of course fans say that.
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Letterman [164]
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Re: Everybody's favorite player...
Nov 28, 2023, 9:57 PM
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Except for when Watson was behind Stoudt and Lawrence was behind Bryant!
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CU Medallion [19736]
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With apologies to the more sensitive
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Nov 28, 2023, 4:29 PM
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Dabo and coaches seem to have potentially missed on top-tier QB recruits since 2019-20. DJ and Cade were ranked in the upper echelons of high school QBs against top competition. DJ in California and Cade in Texas and Elite 11 camps. Vizzina has been a first class young man but was never near the DJ or Cade level in high school. Upon arrival at Clemson, its debatable if these QBs were/are recruiting misses or development misses with untapped potential.
Cade should seriously discuss with Dabo and Riley: 1) if Riley is returning, and 2) if Dabo will stay a run-first risk-averse HC. If Cade has aspirations for the NFL and does not agree with the answers, he should enter the transfer portal.
I'm a 1984 grad and Clemson-first, and I've been surprised at both Cade's and DJ's lack of development and confidence, but these young men's futures, especially when they do things the right way, should come first.
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Game Changer [1891]
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Re: With apologies to the more sensitive
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Nov 28, 2023, 4:54 PM
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You are really saying Cade should transfer if Dabo doesn’t promise to pass more? We passed it 430 times and ran it only slightly more, I think 480ish. That’s a very balanced attack actually. Considering we completely lacked big play threats at receiver, and were also bitten hard by the injury bug at WR, we probably should’ve run it more. You guys crack me up sometimes.
I do agree there has been evidence that our staff was not developing QB’s well at least as far back as Trevor. Trevor even emphasized how many bad habits he had when he went to the NFL. He succeeded on pure talent. Others have called out our lack of developing QB’s as well, namely Dilfer completely trashing Streeter in his comments.
How about we give Riley a chance to develop someone? It may take a minute. I predict it’s going to take some assistant coach pruning and definitely some recruiting of playmakers.
It’s just a bit premature to advise our starting QB to issue an ultimatum on play calling or else hit the portal. My word!
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CU Medallion [19736]
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Quality post
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Nov 28, 2023, 5:14 PM
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Ihopehedo ... you bring up valid points and you know your football. Still, beyond CK2's #71 QBR and infinitesimal ypa and ypc ... At the end of the day, does it matter if it's the o-line, the receivers, the coaching development or all of the above? Cade needs to spend the summer with a Trent Dilfer, Jordan Palmer type and play for a college team that develops QB's if he wants a shot at the NFL. That simple. Passing 50% of his attempts at or behind the line of scrimmage is a career ender for a QB.
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Freshman [-98]
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Re: QBs
Nov 28, 2023, 4:29 PM
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What about Hebert. Isn't there a chance he could be ready immediately?
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Ring of Honor [21413]
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Re: QBs
Nov 28, 2023, 4:36 PM
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He’s ‘25. Need to figure out ‘24.
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Tiger Titan [47847]
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Does anyone think Dabo will try to bring in a QB who can compete as a starter?
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Nov 28, 2023, 4:45 PM
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Because I don’t.
I think Dabo is sold on Cade, and on Vizzina as well. Anyone brought in will be with the intention that he will be third string.
This seems very risky and short-sighted to me.
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Top TigerNet [29101]
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Re: Does anyone think Dabo will try to bring in a QB who can compete as a starter?
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Nov 28, 2023, 4:48 PM
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Hunter should have played more in my opinion.
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National Champion [7936]
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Top TigerNet [31871]
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Clemson Icon [24892]
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Clemson Sports Icon [56840]
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Re: QBs
1
Nov 28, 2023, 4:47 PM
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David, are you just going for clicks now?
Cade will be All American quality next season as he is talented, and a "baller".
The deal might be keeping a guy like Vizzina on board.
Right now, the QB situation at Clemson is better than most years.
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Top TigerNet [28075]
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Bringing in a QB. Question.
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Nov 28, 2023, 4:58 PM
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I'm looking back at FSU after the 21 season. Jordan Travis was the starter. He played decent, but not excellent by any stretch of the imagination.
Lot of fans, and internet media, were calling for Norvell to bring in a QB who could compete with Travis for the starting job. Norvell didn't. He said the reason he didn't was because it would send the signal to Travis that he didn't trust him. He said it would make Travis, even if he won the job, be looking over his shoulder and being worried about being pulled if he made a mistake.
Obviously, not bringing a guy in worked for Norvell.
I'm assuming Dabo is going through the same thing.
1. I've been working all year building Cade's confidence. I've been telling him he's the man and I trust him completely. How can I bring a guy in to compete with him without destroying his confidence? And, if I do, would he enter the portal?
2. If a guy is good enough to come in and compete for the starting job, then he is good enough where he wants to go somewhere as the clear #1 guy. Who is available that would be willing to come here without thinking he's #1 on the depth chart?
Tough decisions. But, that's why Dabo gets the big bucks.
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Game Day Hero [4373]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: QBs
Nov 28, 2023, 5:10 PM
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Doesn’t matter how they were recruited now.
Yes it provides evidence that they were better in high school, but Cade has not done what we need him to. Which is to be the best player on the team.
And apparently CV is not progressing either. Need a new QB coach
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Top TigerNet [28001]
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Re: QBs
Nov 28, 2023, 6:45 PM
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How do we know CV is not progressing? The decision to redshirt him was made very early and based on him being very young for a college freshman. His lack of playing time this year wasn’t due to his performance or lack thereof. It was the plan from the beginning. The big question is will Dabo actually allow a real QB competition in the spring and next fall or will he follow the plan that Cade plays and Vizzina is next man up?
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Solid Orange [1392]
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If Dabo doesnt have a true competition
Nov 28, 2023, 7:02 PM
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Would Vizzina hit the portal?
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Top TigerNet [28001]
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Re: If Dabo doesnt have a true competition
Nov 29, 2023, 7:41 AM
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My guess would be no. Watching what happened with DJ last year and Cade this year, it seems to me that Dabo makes a plan with, and for, all of these 5* QBs when they come in as freshmen and then they stick with this plan unless something extremely unexpected happens. So I’m thinking CV understands the plan and from the comments I saw when the decision was made to redshirt him, he seemed to be totally on board with it. I don’t think Cade or CV are high drama guys. Enough of that will come from “fans”.
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1st Rounder [692]
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Re: QBs
Nov 28, 2023, 8:28 PM
[ in reply to Re: QBs ] |
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I just don't get folks on here who think they're smarter than Dabo. Last year, many were very vocal that Cade was our savior and there was something sinister about Dabo going as long as he did with DJ. Yet, looking at Cade's play early in the year, it was clear that Dabo was right and he wasn't ready last year to be an instant starter. Cade has played much better late this season, and look for him to continue to improve and do well next season. Now folks are even saying Hunter Helms was better than Cade. Some folks just don't learn.
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Game Day Hero [4373]
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Re: QBs
Nov 28, 2023, 9:50 PM
[ in reply to Re: QBs ] |
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I don’t know that’s just what David H. said. He knows more than me.
But with the way our QBs have been playing for the last few years, I’d just lean on recruiting status. I’d be a fool if I thought any QB on our depth chart will be elite with how they’ve been developing.
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Game Day Hero [4573]
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Re: QBs
Nov 29, 2023, 7:31 AM
[ in reply to Re: QBs ] |
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You don’t think Hood has contacts within the program who have told him that CV hasn’t progressed? I’ll trust Hoods inside sources over bloggers gut feelings.
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Hall of Famer [8128]
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Maybe DJ will come back?
Nov 28, 2023, 5:34 PM
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Not a serious post
Finding a quality walk on would be great though. I have my doubts about Dqbo going to the portal for a back up quarterback.
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Game Day Hero [4373]
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Re: Maybe DJ will come back?
Nov 28, 2023, 11:43 PM
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Walk ons are just taking up space
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Oculus Spirit [40452]
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Re: QBs
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Nov 28, 2023, 5:49 PM
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These guys have been to QB camps since they were in middle school. Playing in college is learning to speed up your progressions. Not sure with all the talent out there why you need to spend a ton of money on a coach to teach a guy things he already knows. Not many freshman come on the scene and tear it up but a few years of experience seems to fix a lot of issues.
DJ was who he was not sure what you could have done for him seeing he was running an offense he had no business running. I would have expected his numbers to have been better at OSU with a more traditional offense but in reality there was not much of a difference.
I’m not saying a guy does not need a QB coach but I do believe the player needs live bullets to get where he needs to be in running an efficient offense. On top of that neither of these QB’s have been blessed with an abundance of talent at wideout like Watson and Lawrence were.
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CU Medallion [19170]
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We're going to have to find some depth there for the year ahead with
Nov 28, 2023, 6:47 PM
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Helms out of the room. CK didn't post a great stat line in his first season as some of his predecessors, but he was a significant step up there from his immediate. DJ had a big improvement his 2nd year, and I expect the same from Cade, though with a higher ceiling as he's starting off on a stronger performance.
But past him that's pretty much it, and that's not going to work for a program at our level and potential.
Flipping a Lagway would be a solid way to both plug a gap and keep the QB room solid for some years to come. I don't know that there are many more opportunities like that for the '24 class. Maybe there are some diamonds in the rough that have come to light more recently? High school kids do grow fast.
Grabbing a grad QB with experience and chops who's willing to put in the work to compete but also knowing they're the safety mechanism, and not likely NFL-bound, has kind of been Dabo's way and most likely.
I wouldn't put it past the staff though to look at a Year 1 or 2 QB transfer who has impressed in other ways and may be looking for a fresh start with a chance to compete and participate regardless. Not a hotshot transfer, but potential with the tools to blossom, and into the school environment.
So, gotta add someone here either way. Hopeful that we go the younger route on this one.
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Top TigerNet [31871]
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Re: QBs
Nov 28, 2023, 8:15 PM
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100%. CK hasn't progressed as much as I'd hoped--he doesn't seem to have the vision that DW/TL had......he's missed wayyyyy too many open receivers simply by not seeing them.
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Legend [7033]
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Re: QBs
Nov 28, 2023, 8:37 PM
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I honestly do not know why a top rated QB would come here at the moment. DJ depressed. Cade looks like a 3 star. He definitely does not look like top QB in his recruiting class.
G.R. needs to clean house on offensive staff.
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110%er [3653]
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Re: QBs
Nov 28, 2023, 8:56 PM
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Riley needs to step up his coaching as QB coach. Cade has poor pocket awareness and his instincts are to drop his field of vision to within 10 yds of the pocket when pressure occurs. However, I call it instincts because I’m not sure that’s something you can coach out of a QB. That reflex is something he didn’t get exposed to in HS ball or 7 on 7 skills camps. Thus, I’m left wondering if that’s his Achilles heel. Maybe it’s kind of like a gun shy hunting dog? DW4 and TL16 were elite in keeping their eyes down field to find the safety valve. Based on recent history it would appear that was a trait they arrived with vs. something drilled into them by our QB coach.
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MVP [545]
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Re: QBs
Nov 29, 2023, 12:42 AM
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I totally agree. I watched DW4 recognizing blitzing schemes and finding open receivers his first few starts. TL14 had the game slowed down already when he came in during his first few games. That wasn’t taught in a few weeks, that was instinct and raw talent.
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All-American [571]
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Re: QBs
Nov 28, 2023, 8:46 PM
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Give each QB a football, a solid OLine, and some WR's with speed and an ability to win some 50/50 catches, then let the fight for QB1 begin. All high school rating and past performances are in the rearview mirror. May the best QB come emerge from this process....And you guessed it, the winner gets to face the UGA Bulldogs in the Georgia Dome on August 31, 2024. That is the best way to settle every position for the upcoming 2024 season.
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Game Day Hero [4573]
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Re: QBs
Nov 28, 2023, 9:04 PM
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Vandike!
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Legend [6965]
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Any boosters checking in with Arch?***
Nov 28, 2023, 9:15 PM
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National Champion [7525]
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Re: QBs
Nov 28, 2023, 9:23 PM
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I think the most telling comment in the post was “Vizzina has developed like some on the program hoped.”
I’ve said all year if Vizzina was that good we would have at least heard a comment from Dabo.
Instead it was crickets. The only QB that got props besides Cade was Hunter.
It just seemed a bit odd for a guy who was highly recruited.
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Replies: 48
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