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Dynasty Maker [3567]
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Portal Extravaganza!!
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Mar 24, 2025, 5:38 PM
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It's portal time! A lot of you are truly showing how clueless you are with your dramatic reactions.
There are many more examples of this, but Just wondering.......
Did john scheyer lose his team when 7 players transferred out last year?
Did rick barnes lose his team when 4 of their players transferred?
Did Steve Forbes lose his team when 8 players transferred?
Did nate oats lose his team when 6 players transferred?
Did mark pope lose his team when 7 players transferred?
Did chris beard lose his team when 5 players transferred?
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All-In [10778]
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!!
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Mar 24, 2025, 5:40 PM
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I don’t think you really understand what you’re trying to do with this post.
LOL
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Dynasty Maker [3567]
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!!
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Mar 24, 2025, 5:41 PM
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Im sorry that you can't understand. Maybe give hooked on phonics a try.
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All-In [10778]
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!!
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Mar 24, 2025, 5:48 PM
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Do you not realize 5 of the 6 coaches you named are in the sweet 16?
And the other one didn’t even make the tournament?
So…what exactly is your point? lol
And all of this trading players stuff is useless now anyway, after our “best team ever” forgot to show up in March.
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Dynasty Maker [3567]
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!!
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Mar 24, 2025, 5:59 PM
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Do you not realize 5 of the 6 coaches you named are in the sweet 16?
And the other one didn’t even make the tournament?
So…what exactly is your point? lol
And all of this trading players stuff is useless now anyway, after our “best team ever” forgot to show up in March.
Man, this is difficult for you. Let me break it down for you so that even a 3rd grader could understand
General sentiment on here is that brownell losing 3 transfers means that he lost the team.
I provided a list of coaches that had more transfers last year and asked "did they lose the team"? Most of the coaches on this list made the ncaa tourney this year. The answer to that question is no. Transfers are commonplace in basketball. Bad teams have outgoing transfers, and good teams have outgoing transfers. It is part of college basketball now.
This is just an example about how you would argue anything i ever post.
If i would have asked the same question for a team that was bad this year, you would also argue that.
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TigerNet Elite [72671]
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Brownell is better than those Sweet 16 coaches. That's why, moran!!!
Mar 24, 2025, 6:20 PM
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CU Medallion [18285]
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!!
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Mar 24, 2025, 6:49 PM
[ in reply to Re: Portal Extravaganza!! ] |
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But to just frame it as “3 outgoing transfers - pfft that’s nothing” does not look at the totality of the picture. Unless JZ comes back he’s losing his top 5 in minutes played and points scored. He is losing the top 6 of 8 and 10/11 of 15 players depending on JZ. He sacrificed traditional roster management to “win now” via the portal and it is biting us (not him - he just got another extension) in the ### as he will have to rebuild basically from scratch. No transfer has been our leading scorer. Girard was second. JZ was 3rd. He has a massive hole to fill. Since PJ Hall’s rookie year we have returned 2 of our 3 top scorers each season. The absolute best we can do next year is 3rd and 6th. The challenge is much different now.
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Tiger Titan [50227]
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LOL at the lengths you go to in order to bash Brownell.***
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Mar 24, 2025, 7:12 PM
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CU Medallion [18285]
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Orange Elite [5449]
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Clemson Icon [25327]
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Rival Killer [2697]
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Dynasty Maker [3567]
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!!
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Mar 24, 2025, 7:13 PM
[ in reply to Re: Portal Extravaganza!! ] |
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He had a similar spiel last year. Lol.
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CU Medallion [18285]
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!!
Mar 24, 2025, 8:28 PM
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My spiel last year was predicated on Chase leaving. Chase and Schef gave him a manageable nucleus. Do you think Dillon Hunter and Heidbreder give him the same foundation?
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Dynasty Maker [3567]
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!!
Mar 25, 2025, 7:29 AM
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Chase was always staying. Some insider you are.
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CU Medallion [18285]
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!!
Mar 25, 2025, 8:41 AM
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When have I portrayed myself as an Insider? I knew Zion wasn’t coming because of information from someone unrelated to Clemson. Not sure what else I’ve ever offered as insider information. That’s usually a Brownell Bros cosplay.
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Rival Killer [2674]
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I don't think your information is correct
Mar 24, 2025, 11:10 PM
[ in reply to Re: Portal Extravaganza!! ] |
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Last season, Clemson's 3 leading scorers were PJ Hall (18.3), Joseph Girard (15.1), and Chase Hunter (12.9). The only one of those guys who came back for this season was Chase. And in 2022, Clemson's leading scorers were PJ Hall (15.5), Al-Amir Dawes (11.3), and David Collins (10.3). Of those 3, the only one who returned in 2023 was PJ Hall. So of the 4 off-seasons since PJ's freshman year in 2021, the Tigers have only actually returned 2 of their top 3 scorers in 2 of those. The other 2 times it was only 1.
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CU Medallion [18285]
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Re: I don't think your information is correct
Mar 25, 2025, 8:38 AM
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I may have worded it strangely but two of our three leading scorers were returning players.
2024 Chase, Schief
2023 Hall, Hunter
2022 Hall, Tyson
2021 Hall, Dawes
2020 Sims, Dawes
Point being, transfers have augmented the roster. We have not leaned on them to be >50% of production. We may need them to be nearly 75% next year.
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Ring of Honor [22058]
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But we knew that would be the case starting 4 seniors
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Mar 25, 2025, 9:50 AM
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this was not an unanticipated situation.
I personally expect several transfers with multiple years of eligibility and a couple with 1 year to augment as you say.
It's what happens when you go from older to young. We've been blessed to return older players for several years now who were significant contributors, but losing 4 senior starters was always going to impact that dynamic regardless of transfers
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CU Medallion [18285]
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Re: But we knew that would be the case starting 4 seniors
Mar 25, 2025, 10:30 AM
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Obviously Brownell is coming back so we’re going to find out the hard way. But with JZ gone we’re returning 18% minutes and 13% of offense. That no only all time worst returning numbers, it’s half the all-time worst. I have poured over others teams that have had to do similar (since there is no precedent for it at Clemson) but the odds of finding ready to play, highly productive players, who will gel immediately is pretty remote.
Are there are expectations for a Brownell program? If we fail to make the tourney next year is that fine as long as he’ll be returning some talent? What about no NIT? Is there any outcome that will trigger one of his supporters to say “okay, enough is enough”. Because the crux of my argument is that he’s not great and as a result we should stop trapping ourselves in contracts that prevent the opportunity to move on cost effectively. I don’t think that’s a radical position. A significant extension/raise will insure that regardless of results he’s here two more years. You only offer that level insurance to a coach you know is “the guy” but needs to rebuild for reasons beyond his control. That doesn’t apply here.
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Orange Phenom [14889]
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!!
Mar 26, 2025, 7:46 AM
[ in reply to Re: Portal Extravaganza!! ] |
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User Logo
viztiz
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!! 2
Mar 24, 2025, 6:49 PM [ in reply to Re: Portal Extravaganza!! ]
Reply
But to just frame it as “3 outgoing transfers - pfft that’s nothing” does not look at the totality of the picture. Unless JZ comes back he’s losing his top 5 in minutes played and points scored. He is losing the top 6 of 8 and 10/11 of 15 players depending on JZ. He sacrificed traditional roster management to “win now” via the portal and it is biting us (not him - he just got another extension) in the ### as he will have to rebuild basically from scratch. No transfer has been our leading scorer. Girard was second. JZ was 3rd. He has a massive hole to fill. Since PJ Hall’s rookie year we have returned 2 of our 3 top scorers each season. The absolute best we can do next year is 3rd and 6th. The challenge is much different now.
fact is if we got the entire boston celtics roster in the portal vizcoot would still b!tch. brad is sorta like trump. if trump cured cancer the dems would ##### because it put some of big pharma out of work.
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Orange Phenom [14889]
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!!
Mar 26, 2025, 7:42 AM
[ in reply to Re: Portal Extravaganza!! ] |
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Clemson mountaineers®
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!! 2 1
Mar 24, 2025, 5:59 PM [ in reply to Re: Portal Extravaganza!! ]
Reply
Row86 said:
Do you not realize 5 of the 6 coaches you named are in the sweet 16?
And the other one didn’t even make the tournament?
So…what exactly is your point? lol
And all of this trading players stuff is useless now anyway, after our “best team ever” forgot to show up in March.
Man, this is difficult for you. Let me break it down for you so that even a 3rd grader could understand
General sentiment on here is that brownell losing 3 transfers means that he lost the team.
I provided a list of coaches that had more transfers last year and asked "did they lose the team"? Most of the coaches on this list made the ncaa tourney this year. The answer to that question is no. Transfers are commonplace in basketball. Bad teams have outgoing transfers, and good teams have outgoing transfers. It is part of college basketball now.
This is just an example about how you would argue anything i ever post.
If i would have asked the same question for a team that was bad this year, you would also argue that.
hopefully your head is not bleeding from beating it against the wall. smfh at tese goobers.
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Associate AD [1099]
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!!
Mar 24, 2025, 11:14 PM
[ in reply to Re: Portal Extravaganza!! ] |
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I wish i could be in a room with you and the team and you telling them they didn't show up.
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TigerNet Elite [77195]
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!!
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Mar 24, 2025, 5:42 PM
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The guy at Illinois had to replace almost all of his roster. But he like the other you mentioned have much better history and program track records.
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Orange Elite [5449]
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!!
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Mar 24, 2025, 5:46 PM
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What years do those represent? Just last year?
Now tell us how many of those were already losing ~70% of their production to graduation/exhausted eligibility
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Dynasty Maker [3567]
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!!
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Mar 24, 2025, 6:03 PM
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Just last year.
To answer your question: Duke.
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Orange Elite [5449]
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!!
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Mar 24, 2025, 6:07 PM
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Thanks!
I guess that would mean that those others arent exactly in a similar situation. How many of them won 80+ games in the last 4 years, back to back NCAA's, and had a huge exodus of SR talent leaving that would provide a golden opportunity?
Also Duke isn't a great comparison either, they are Duke. We aren't even close to be able to recruit like them.
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Dynasty Maker [3567]
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!!
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Mar 24, 2025, 6:17 PM
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You are welcome to google if you would like. The only one i knew off the top of my head was duke because i follow acc basketball closely.
So duke isnt a good comparison, because we cant recruit like they do, yet we are supposed to beat them to win the ACC this year?
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Orange Elite [5449]
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!!
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Mar 24, 2025, 6:34 PM
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So you offered examples of other programs losing a lot of their roster but can’t say whether they were in similar situations??? Seems to undo your entire point.
Yes we can beat them and we should have won the ACCT this year or at least put up a better fight.
But to say we can fill a depleted roster like they can is nuts. I know you know that.
Message was edited by: N0VATiger®
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Dynasty Maker [3567]
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!!
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Mar 24, 2025, 7:11 PM
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Again.
If brownell loses transfers, it means he is losing the team.
Almost every team loses transfers regardless of situation. Losing transfers is not a gauge of program strength.
Its all about improving your team with the portal. Brownell has typically done this. Let's see how it plays out. Right now we lost a player that rarely played, a dude who im glad transferred (dont think ive said that before), and an extremely promising freshman that was our 4th or 5th option at guard this past year. He was no slated for a starting position bext year and i was excited for that.
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Orange Elite [5449]
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!!
Mar 24, 2025, 7:16 PM
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Hey I’m not completely disagreeing with you. I am not looking at the TP defections in a vacuum and blindly blaming CBB for it
But I do think it’s odd, there is/was a golden opportunity in front of them and they didn’t grasp the opportunity
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CU Medallion [18402]
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!!
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Mar 24, 2025, 5:46 PM
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Great point. Usually the more successful team you are on, the more transfers transfer out because the market goes up for them.
This shows are program is up ticking.
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Ring of Honor [22058]
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The only loss so far is Jones
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Mar 24, 2025, 5:53 PM
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even if Heidbrieder leaves as well, he's not a starter at this level. In today's game, it's really quite shortsighted to judge without seeing who we bring in. We knew we'd be replacing Chase, Ian and Victor. Now we replace some depth. Some of that will come from within, but I hope everyone has the brains to realize our big 3's replacements we're going to come from the portal.
One question I do have, is next year a year in which we can play some preseason games overseas? This is going to be a team that needs some time to develop chemistry with so many new or inexperienced faces.
But the status of our roster is TBD
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CU Medallion [18402]
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Re: The only loss so far is Jones
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Mar 24, 2025, 6:03 PM
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Right, this will the 4th year since the last international trip. Good way to get some players wanted to come besides the NIL deals.
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Dynasty Maker [3567]
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Re: The only loss so far is Jones
Mar 24, 2025, 6:26 PM
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Wow didn't know that. That is actually a big deal.
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Paw Warrior [4772]
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Re: The only loss so far is Jones
Mar 24, 2025, 6:25 PM
[ in reply to The only loss so far is Jones ] |
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Do you think Del Jones was shown the door?
I don't think he was, so why is he leaving?
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Dynasty Maker [3567]
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Re: The only loss so far is Jones
Mar 24, 2025, 6:28 PM
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No way he was shown the door. There could be a million reasons why he transferred. My guess would be $, but who knows.
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Ring of Honor [22058]
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No, he had the exact offensive/defensive skills we want
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Mar 24, 2025, 7:41 PM
[ in reply to Re: The only loss so far is Jones ] |
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after the tourney game he said he was looking forward to the next chapter in his Clemson career. He has an agent like every other player. It's not tampering to talk to an agent. I think his agent received alot of calls, and Del decided to jump in the water.
Absolutely no evidence he was a problem or had an issue with the team or coaches
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Tiger Titan [50227]
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Please stop.
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Mar 24, 2025, 6:03 PM
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Losing players to the portal is only a Brownell problem, just like losing games you shouldn’t and scoring droughts are also only Brownell problems.
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Dynasty Maker [3567]
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Re: Please stop.
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Mar 24, 2025, 6:13 PM
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You know what, you are right.
We need to win games that we are not favored in most of the time, and win 100% if the games that we are favored in. Anything less is completely unacceptable.
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CU Guru [1503]
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Re: Please stop.
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Mar 24, 2025, 6:15 PM
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I think talking to yourself might be a sign of insanity.
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Dynasty Maker [3567]
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Re: Please stop.
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Mar 24, 2025, 7:12 PM
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Says the conspiracy theorist that thinks i would make multiple usernames for an anonymous message board.
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CU Guru [1503]
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Re: Please stop.
Mar 24, 2025, 7:13 PM
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OK Judge
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Dynasty Maker [3567]
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Re: Please stop.
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Mar 24, 2025, 7:14 PM
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CU Guru [1503]
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Re: Please stop.
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Mar 24, 2025, 7:24 PM
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I think you used this GIF before on your Judge account. Maybe make a list of which account you used what. Just a suggestion.
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Dynasty Maker [3567]
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Re: Please stop.
Mar 24, 2025, 8:45 PM
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Standout [215]
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Re: Please stop.
Mar 24, 2025, 11:28 PM
[ in reply to Re: Please stop. ] |
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The new school of thought is talking you yourself is beneficial.
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TigerNet Icon [151594]
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I had forgotten about Rick Barnes.
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Mar 24, 2025, 6:17 PM
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Probably the best coach we ever had. And the fans loved him.
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Orange Elite [5449]
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Re: I had forgotten about Rick Barnes.
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Mar 24, 2025, 6:35 PM
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Some fans loved him a little too much…
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Orange Phenom [14254]
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Re: I had forgotten about Rick Barnes.
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Mar 24, 2025, 7:54 PM
[ in reply to I had forgotten about Rick Barnes. ] |
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Next to Frank Howard, yes. And I assume we are talking basketball coaches only.
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CU Medallion [18285]
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!!
Mar 24, 2025, 6:37 PM
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You’re missing the mark with this one. Brownell pulled off his biggest portal haul yet last year and it still resulted in a 1-2 post season record. He’ll have to bring much more productivity from the portal this time. Those other coaches are almost all still playing and at no point have likely had to replace the total productivity Brad will be called upon to do this year. We returned roughly 50% of minutes and 40% of points from last season this year. Chase returning was a big part of making that a salvageable number. If JZ can come back we’re at a ceiling of 35% minutes and 25% of offense returning. The only time we’ve returned that little was Brownell’s lone losing season. It’s part of why I was so negative on this year’s prospects before Chase returned. Because the numbers would have been similar. And that’s if JZ can come back (which I don’t think will happen). If JZ doesn’t come back we’ll be looking something more like VT’s rebuild this year than 12-13.
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Ring of Honor [22058]
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That could happen
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Mar 24, 2025, 7:47 PM
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but let's see who we bring in first. Could be a total rebuild, a reload, or somewhere in between. We just don't and can't know yet.
Last year Girard was an influencer after his season, I can see Victor doing the same this year, Zachary as well
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Athletic Dir [1176]
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Re: That could happen
Mar 25, 2025, 7:54 AM
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I think you're right. Players see the team success JG3 had and development that Lahkin showed and the key piece he became.
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CU Medallion [18285]
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Re: That could happen
Mar 25, 2025, 8:26 AM
[ in reply to That could happen ] |
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But the returning numbers I wrote are known. I ran them with and without JZ. And people need to realize that JZ coming back is predicated on a NCAA rule change, not some waiver. As of today, he is ineligible to return. There is very little information indicativing that the NCAA is going to make this move, much less enact it for 2025-26.
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Dynasty Maker [3567]
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Re: That could happen
Mar 25, 2025, 8:28 AM
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I dont think jz is coming back.
I also dont think brownell should wait around either. He needs to be actively recruiting guards in the portal.
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CU Medallion [18285]
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Re: That could happen
Mar 25, 2025, 9:29 AM
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If we accept that JZ isn’t coming back then this is the lowest return minutes and productivity in the 64 team era. In fact, it isn’t even close.
2025-26 will return 18% minutes played and 13% of offense
The Slab Five still returned 30%/33%
Larry’s Shyatt’s 10-20 season was 34%/29%
Brad’s lowest was 19-20 when we went 16-15 at 36%/26%
This is not what the time and investment made in Brad should be yielding much less be given raises and extensions for.
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Dynasty Maker [3567]
TigerPulse: 83%
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!!
Mar 25, 2025, 7:48 AM
[ in reply to Re: Portal Extravaganza!! ] |
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Message was edited by: Clemson mountaineers®
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Heisman Winner [83108]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I trust CBB to fill the holes.
Mar 24, 2025, 6:53 PM
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He did really well this year at that.
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Rival Killer [2891]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!!
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Mar 24, 2025, 6:55 PM
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Some jackhole will say next season will be an unmitigated disaster, AGAIN. Have they learned their lesson? Doubt it. Bring next season on! I support our team, regardless of who is left, or who is new.
If we make the tourney will doubters leave? I’ll be here regardless. Sorry to disappoint.
Go Tigers !
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CU Medallion [20538]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 14500
Joined: 2009
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I'm sure Brad will do great replacing all the HS recruits he missed on and/or
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Mar 24, 2025, 7:03 PM
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failed to develop with players that others developed but can't afford to keep.
Glad our AD is willing to help Brad purchase kids he can finish 3rd in the conference with and keep this magical stretch alive.
Go new Tigers!
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Clemson Conqueror [11544]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I full well expect for us to trade up for a brilliant
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Mar 24, 2025, 9:06 PM
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First round ACCT and NCAAT loss.
I can always hope for more and so I will.
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110%er [3984]
TigerPulse: 95%
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So should we expect to do something in the postseason?***
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Mar 24, 2025, 11:28 PM
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Orange Elite [5364]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!!
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Mar 25, 2025, 10:39 AM
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Right now we barely have a team, that contract extension announced before the game was the worst thing that could've happened
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Orange Phenom [14323]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Portal Extravaganza!!
Mar 26, 2025, 8:08 AM
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Did Brownell ever win anything? Oh yeah, three mid major tournaments 28+ years ago! I have so much faith in the .680+% lifetime winner. Those two ranked teams in final top 25. Those one elite 8 and one sweet sixteen runs. So much faith and confidence!
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