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Varsity [132]
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One point we might consider about Dabo's "managing" of DJ
Nov 9, 2022, 11:54 AM
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Just one point we might be missing regarding how Dabo has managed DJ......if we think back to the issue of Kelly Bryant being replaced by Trevor. It was obvious that Dabo did NOT anticipate Kelly basically quitting on the spot when Dabo met with him to tell him Trevor would be 'starting'.
You could also tell that Dabo did NOT want Kelly to quit the team and IMO Dabo was hurt (personally) because he obviously loves his players and he saw how devastated Kelly was (tears etc).
So, my point it that Dabo might have been doing everything he can to keep this from happening with DJ by going the extra mile so to speak......but now it has reached the point that we will at least see Cade getting more meaningful reps. Like many of us have said...it is time to "hurt some feelings" including Staff (IMO). Dabo is still a first class guy and fabulous coach and I have total confidence in him FOREVER!
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Letterman [152]
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Re: One point we might consider about Dabo's "managing" of DJ
Nov 9, 2022, 11:56 AM
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I’m told on good authority Dabo and DJ’s mother talked DJ out ot quitting sports entirely sometime last year. I do believe he treats these guys like his own kids.
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Freshman [-97]
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Re: One point we might consider about Dabo's "managing" of DJ
Nov 9, 2022, 12:04 PM
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To many hoops to jump through. Let him go.
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Top TigerNet [28834]
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Re: One point we might consider about Dabo's "managing" of DJ
Nov 9, 2022, 12:05 PM
[ in reply to Re: One point we might consider about Dabo's "managing" of DJ ] |
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In my opinion, Dabo had to babysit DJ last year because we had no backup and I believe DJ knew this so he just kind of did his own thing. This year, he has a backup but has no college experience. Dabo has
started DJ every game so he can prove himself to the coach. So far, it appears the wheels are falling off of DJ again and that QB with no college experience has a little more experience now. I believe Dabo will yank DJ early Saturday if he is not producing.
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Standout [333]
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Re: One point we might consider about Dabo's "managing" of DJ
Nov 9, 2022, 12:24 PM
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Moronic post.
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All-Time Great [96667]
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Whatever's going on with Coach & DJ, it's hurting the TEAM big time!
Nov 9, 2022, 12:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: One point we might consider about Dabo's "managing" of DJ ] |
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Seems DJ may be an emotionally fragile & not 110% All-In to being a QB young man in some ways and it shows up now & then on the field.
He is inconsistent (flashy to bad and then medianly average).
Saying, Dabo has had a QB situation (with no real back-up in 2021 & a newbie in 2022) that has kept him & Assistant coaches up at night..
and it's not over yet but they hope thay can bring him over the finish line this year with no more losses!
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: Whatever's going on with Coach & DJ, it's hurting the TEAM big time!
Nov 9, 2022, 12:32 PM
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A player can be 110% All In and yet be devastated if he believes that his NFL dream is going down the toilet.
All In is a two way street. The player can give his all, and also recognize if he is the best option for winning the game at hand.
If that player is pulled (with the increased likelihood that it will lead to a loss of that game) so that another player can get experience (but with a lower likelihood that it will lead to a win), then it is understandable if he views CLEMSON as being insincere with the "All In" mantra.
Cade is our future, but DJ is our best option now based Cade's play during the Syracuse and N.Dame games. (In the Syracuse game, DJ could just as easily as Cade handed off the ball to Shipley and Mafah.)
All In isn't as simple as it sounds.
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TigerNet Immortal [165742]
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I really don't get the school of thought that says it's so
Nov 9, 2022, 12:43 PM
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bad to criticize a QB (DJ), that you're going to go out of your way to diminish the other QB.
Cade didn't just hand it off. He scrambled for first downs. The late hit he got was earned with his feet. DJ would have been bumbling for 2 yards and falling were it him. The PI call we got in the end zone was on a long dime from Cade. Was he perfect, no, but he absolutely won that game for us and DJ more than likely would have lost it.
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: I really don't get the school of thought that says it's so
Nov 9, 2022, 12:54 PM
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We were lucky as heck that Cade got the roughing penalty called on Syracuse on that run.
Cade's scrambling had us no where near the first down.
It was pure luck (on a questionable call) that got us that key first down; Cade's ability had next to nothing to do with it.
As far as the subsequent PI calls against Syracuse, I can give Cade a bit of credit for that since he didn't throw a severely mis-placed pass (i.e., a non-catchable pass) that would have rendered it impossible for a PI call to have been made.
But for the defensive holding call against Syracuse, again, Cade had nothing to do with that.
The cumulative effect of Cade's non-hand-off plays ... with one very big exception (i.e., his outstanding 2 point conversion pass) were minimal on the outcome of the Syracuse game.
Cade will be good next year, but this year he simply has not shown that he's ready yet.
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National Champion [7478]
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Re: I really don't get the school of thought that says it's so
Nov 9, 2022, 1:07 PM
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It’s Dabo’s fault that Cade has not been coached up and ready to go in if needed!!
Last year, yeah, we had no options other than DJ at QB, but this year we do. If DJ has one foot out the door, kick his butt out! You think Coach Howard or Ford would be wasting this kind of time and effort on DJ, if he’s not willing and showing he’s giving his 110% to this team?
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: I really don't get the school of thought that says it's so
Nov 9, 2022, 1:28 PM
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In the here and now, are you ready to lose 2 (for sure) or and possibly 3 of our next 5 games by playing Cade now?
Cade played against La Tech and Furman.
I was disappointed that Dabo didn't give more PT to Cade against BC.
Other than the BC game mistake, when did Dabo under-utilize / give PT opportunities to Cade?
Again, regardless of what should have been done earlier in the year to get Cade enough meaningful reps, in the here and now it is clear that Cade isn't ready yet to be the starter.
Our season is cooked if DJU says bye bye and hits the portal.
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Ultimate Tiger [33063]
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I'll play your ridiculous game of ..."are you ready to lose
Nov 9, 2022, 3:25 PM
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2 (for sure) or and possibly 3 of our next 5 games by playing Cade now?"
So now you are omniscient ? ?You have NO CLUE what will happen. We could get Noter Dame'd in all 5 games or we could win all 5 by a combined 6317 - 0 . . . . you have no idea.
BUT - I have seen enough of DJ to realize he looks VERY uncertain in everything he does.
For the CFP - I HATE the term "eye test" . . . . but I understand it. DJ does not pass ANY aspect of the "eye test" being our QB . . . I take that back - occasionally he throws a BEAUTIFUL pass that drops in perfectly. Dropping dimes - but I have no idea what that means or where it is drawing from . . . .
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: I'll play your ridiculous game - le's play, then
Nov 9, 2022, 9:21 PM
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Of course I'm not prescient. Nor are the horde of others who say 'Cade would have been better than DJU (?) leading us to an 8 - 0 record before the ND game (?) if Dabo had only played him.
Instead of playing the 'you are not prescient' game, then don't pretend to be prescient yourself.
As to DJU's uncertainty (which was obvious in the ND game) ... sure he was uncertain. ND's DL and LBs were on him like mosquitos on a Cajun. (If you watch the replay of our best RB's failure to block ND's blitzing LBs and DBs, then you'll see why DJU had confidence problems as far as our pass protection.)
Only the Lamar Jackson, Deshaun Watson, and Caleb Williams types can consistently scoot their way out of that kind of pressure and turn disaster into a successful play. It's unfair to expect any of our QBs past or present (other than the incomparable D.Watson) to play well under those circumstances.
OH, BTW, Dabo's most recent TNet interview stated that DJU's pik-6 against ND was entirely Ngata's fault. According to Dabo, DJU had thrown a back-shoulder pass to the perfect spot, but Ngata didn't get his head around and was therefore out of position. The ND D-back therefore had no opposition for getting to the ball, grabbed it, and ran ~ 90 yard for the TD.
So you think that Dabo coddles his players (and especially DJU)? He didn't coddle Ngata with his comments. He also criticized DJU earlier in the week for ~ 5 occasions when he should have made a faster decision (which includes throwing the ball away in time in certain situations) during the ND game.
So much for the 'Dabo coddles' his players myth.
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Freshman [-94]
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Clemson, Alabama, Georgia, Ohio state
Nov 9, 2022, 10:14 PM
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These are the elite programs in America. It’s playoffs or bust! Now that we have little to no chance, let’s be honest we’re not going to the playoffs, mathematically it’s possible, but extremely extremely unlikely and improbable. Therefore, I couldn’t care less what happens the rest of the season. I would rather lose a couple of games and Cade get valuable experience than play DJ and struggle the rest of the season. It’s just common sense!
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TigerNet Immortal [165742]
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It was 3rd and 25....of course it wasn't near the 1st down.
Nov 9, 2022, 1:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: I really don't get the school of thought that says it's so ] |
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I feel like you've forgotten his play. He got two first downs with his feet. 1:40 and 2:42.
DJ would not have made that 2 point conversion if his life depended on it.
That same day, DJ's handoffs to his RB looked like two kids fighting over a kickball on the playground. His awkwardness and uncertainty on zone reads has caused multiple fumbles this year, so I'm not about to take for granted Cade's performance handing the ball off.
With a whopping 20 snaps under his belt this season, you simply have no way of saying he's shown that he's not ready, but it shows your bias when you give him zero credit for the Syracuse W he got for us.
https://youtu.be/BLCetWVanek
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Freshman [-97]
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Re: It was 3rd and 25....of course it wasn't near the 1st down.
Nov 9, 2022, 1:18 PM
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You pretty much destroyed him with this. Nice work.
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: It was 3rd and 25....of course it wasn't near the 1st down.
Nov 9, 2022, 3:10 PM
[ in reply to It was 3rd and 25....of course it wasn't near the 1st down. ] |
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Appreciate the clip with highlights of late Q3 and Q4.
Getting past the excitement of our victory (which was great), the video clip confirms that Cade's play was average at best. (Again, I'll emphasize that it was a GREAT victory for us!)
The penalties on his first drive saved him (and us). Nothing that Cade did on his run that led to the facemask penalty was related to trying to tackle him. The Syracuse defender grabbed Cade's FM when Cade was already on the ground. This was a terrible mistake by Syracuse that had nothing to do with Cade's run.
We had already gone over the PI / defensive holding stuff, no need to drag this up again.
Cade's interception on the first of his 2 point conversion attempts was not a problem; this was actually a good decision (since an interception for a 2 pt. conversion ... as long as the INT doesn't get returned for the other team to get 2 points). The INT on that conversion attempt is better than taking a sack or throwing it out of bounds.
His late-Q4 running was against a depleted Syracuse DL that was already out of gas because of (1) our effective Q4 running game (esp. Shipley) and (2) our D holding Syracuse's offense to 3 and outs for pretty much the entire 2nd half. Cade, Hunter Johnson, Helms, and yes ... even DJU ... would have run effectively in that circumstance. Although pleased that Cade did well with his running, there was nothing heroic or special about it in that circumstance.
(*) This isn't to be 'negative' about Cade; rather it is just a realistic and sober assessment of where he is at this point in his (very early) career with us.
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TigerNet Immortal [165742]
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Hey, we agree on something....his play WAS average at best.
Nov 9, 2022, 3:32 PM
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And "average" was several orders of magnitude better than DJ's play that day. That's why he won the game for us.
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Game Day Hero [4326]
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: I really don't get the school of thought that says it's so
Nov 9, 2022, 1:35 PM
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Fine to say that Cade wasn't given a fair chance.
But other than against BC (when Cade should have gotten the majority of Q4 snaps), which game were you ready for us to lose by playing a not-yet-ready Cade?
Back to the here and now ... if DJU leaves and hits the portal, then we'll lose at least 2 more games and maybe 3 more.
Stop dreaming about what coulda / should happened and think about current situation and how to move forward.
Ready to sacrifice the remainder of 2022 (and thus ruin the 2023 recruiting class) by playing Cade now to give him experience for the 2023 season?
Spoiler alert: Regardless of whether Cade, Vizz, or DJU is QB next year, we ain't going back to CFP in 2023.
Not just writing here to be argumentative or to disrespect those thoughtful posts here. I just don't see it as worth the risk to this year's last 5 games in exchange for the Gamecock cry of "wait 'til next year."
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Freshman [-97]
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Re: I really don't get the school of thought that says it's so
Nov 9, 2022, 12:54 PM
[ in reply to I really don't get the school of thought that says it's so ] |
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Honestly, rememberthedanny, striperfan, and handful of others refuse to veer from the narrative of the coaches and give the impression to me that everybody that doesn’t feel the same way are bad fans or coots or whatever. It’s very easy to just spew the company line and ridicule others that may have a different take on things.
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Game Changer [1750]
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I disagree ...
Nov 9, 2022, 12:56 PM
[ in reply to Re: Whatever's going on with Coach & DJ, it's hurting the TEAM big time! ] |
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... I have played sports all my life, including soccer at Clemson many years ago.
Sports are, and always will be, about "What Have You Done For Me Lately". If a player is not producing, you bring in someone that potentially plays better. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but players at a high-level program at Clemson are not going to play any harder - or tank - if their friend is not starting or playing.
Dabo has shown himself to be VERY fair about playing players when they DESERVE it, and has stated it often. DJ is no different.
These players want to win above all else and they will play their hearts out with the players that are out on the field with them, whoever they are.
Our culture at Clemson is such that even if players can voice their concerns professionally to coaches without repercussion.
Coddling a player is not productive and can adversely affect team moral.
The tigers will be ready and hungry for the rest of the year.. and we'll see where we end up. 
GO TIGERS!!
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: I disagree ...
Nov 9, 2022, 1:16 PM
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I appreciate your perspective; you've got 'street cred' as a D1 athlete in a top tier sport.
The 'coddling' aspect is not that simple as with either our 2021 or 2022 FB team.
In 2021, if DJU quit, then we'd have been lucky to beat anyone. Despite the chorus from many Clemson fans to 'give Taisun a chance,' we had no option other than DJU. Taisun simply could pass the ball effectively.
In 2022, remember Dabo's comments from Spring practice (and again from Summer camp) that Cade had not recognized that his HS way of scrambling and outrunning the HS level defenders wasn't working for him at the college level. Dabo also commented that the rules which prevent tackling of players had kept Cade from 'feeling the pain of actually being tackled' as an additional consequence of scrambling too much.
In his limited play in 2022, Cade has shown that he still hasn't learned that he needs better pocket presence. He rolls out prematurely and misjudges his own scrambling abilities.
Dabo's appearance of 'coddling' of DJU, to me, reflects that he doesn't have confidence that Cade can actually win games for us yet.
Who knows? If (when) DJU has another spell of poor decisions / errant passes, then we'll see some more snap-shots of Cade. Maybe Cade can demonstrate in his next appearances that he's really learning how to play the QB position at the level that we need.
I suspect that Cade's improvement is not going to be dramatic from game to game, but rather gradual.
Hopefully if (when) Cade's play isn't sparking the team, it won't be because of another situation such as the pik against ND on his second play of the game.
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Athletic Dir [1163]
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Re: I disagree ...
Nov 9, 2022, 9:59 PM
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You’re using “pocket presence” as an argument FOR DJU pretty much destroys whatever credibility (not much) that you had. DJ has basically no pocket presence 90% of the time. Probably close to half the sacks he has taken have been past the 3 second mark. At that point it’s not a blocking issue it’s a WB with little pocket presence and no internal clock. I like DJ. He’s a great kid, imo from the results he just doesn’t appear to have the intangibles to be a top notch D1 QB. CKs ceiling is miles higher and while I agree he does tend to get happy feet at least he is trying to make something happen and buy time instead of standing still for 4 seconds and taking a sack
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Game Day Hero [4326]
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110%er [3889]
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: Get this crap and speculation off our board
Nov 9, 2022, 12:55 PM
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We'll see if this guy has anything, or if he's just another of the message board wanna-be hero types.
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Freshman [-97]
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: Get this crap and speculation off our board
Nov 9, 2022, 2:27 PM
[ in reply to Get this crap and speculation off our board ] |
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You've struck a nerve with that 'I've got super secret info' guy when you challenged him to put-up or shut-up.
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Game Day Hero [4519]
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Orange Beast [6293]
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Re: One point we might consider about Dabo's "managing" of DJ
Nov 9, 2022, 3:27 PM
[ in reply to Re: One point we might consider about Dabo's "managing" of DJ ] |
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Why would you talk someone out of quitting when they clearly aren't really that interested in being here? You can tell that DJ has a take it or leave it attitude most of the time with regards to football. Not sure how having a guy, who is supposed to be the leader of the offense if not the entire team, who doesn't even enjoy the game is supposed to be a big benefit. Talk about not "all-in"
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: One point we might consider about Dabo's "managing" of DJ
Nov 9, 2022, 9:24 PM
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I'm impressed ... either you are a mind-reader, a savant, or have some deep inside connection to either DJU or his closest confidants.
Can you back up your "... clearly aren't really that interested in being here?" comment?
Didn't think so.
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Letterman [290]
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Offensive Star [304]
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What?
Nov 9, 2022, 12:02 PM
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To me it seemed obvious that Dabo intentionally told Kelly Bryant that Trevor was the starter BEFORE his redshirt window closed so that he could make an informed decision about his future.
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: What?
Nov 9, 2022, 12:47 PM
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I don't know one way or the other, but I suspect that you are correct.
Dabo has repeatedly demonstrated that he has each player's best interests at heart.
(Dabo also has to manage the best interests of ALL players, not just the starting QB. For the good of the rest of the team, if the starting QB needs to be benched, then Dabo is looking out for the best interests of all the 'non-starting-QB' players.)
It's a complicated 'human resources' management issue ... a true walk-the-tightrope task.
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Orange Immortal [67583]
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DJ is a well-liked respected leader on this team...
Nov 9, 2022, 12:08 PM
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and the possibility exists of potentially losing the locker room by benching him in favor of a true freshman.
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TigerNet Immortal [165742]
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Right...they absolutely love him, and to show it, they
Nov 9, 2022, 12:27 PM
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play with about 40 percent effort for him.
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Clemson Icon [26530]
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Exactly my opinion, too. In fact I think there has been
Nov 9, 2022, 12:32 PM
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a disconnect going back to the first game last year.
I have my reasons for that thinking.
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: Exactly my opinion, too. In fact I think there has been
Nov 9, 2022, 12:35 PM
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Please share those reasons for your thinking this way.
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Clemson Icon [26530]
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I appreciate your interest; however, I prefer to be
Nov 9, 2022, 1:00 PM
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evasive, keeping those thoughts to myself right now.
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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TigerNet Immortal [165742]
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On purpose? No, not at all, that's silly.
Nov 9, 2022, 12:36 PM
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I do think his lack of fire and leadership is a large part of our offense looking like they're phoning it in most of this season. It's hard to get amped up to perform at a high level for a field general who acts like he's on quaaludes.
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: On purpose? No, not at all, that's silly.
Nov 9, 2022, 1:03 PM
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OK, then with that additional context I can see your point of view on the 'subconsciously putting forth less than full effort' comment.
Other than the ND game (when I think we got demoralized more from facing our first opponent that physically whipped us on both sides of the ball), where did you see us playing as if we were subconsciously 'in the tank'?
GA Tech ... I thought we were casual and a bit lazy in the first half, but not demoralized.
La Tech and Furman ... doesn't matter.
The rest of our pre-ND games I just didn't see any demoralized play or subconscious 'tanking.'
Not trying to be overly argumentative here, just seeking some additional perspective from you.
Thanks.
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Head Coach [752]
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Re: On purpose? No, not at all, that's silly.
Nov 9, 2022, 3:26 PM
[ in reply to On purpose? No, not at all, that's silly. ] |
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I do think his lack of fire and leadership is a large part of our offense looking like they're phoning it in most of this season. It's hard to get amped up to perform at a high level for a field general who acts like he's on quaaludes.
The whole "field general" thing waaaay overrated. We're not talking about a Franchise NFL QB with a zillion years experience and more power/say than 99.9% of the whole organization. This is college.
You know what teammates want/need from a QB? They need him to do his job. Not fumble. Not take sacks unnecessarily. Not throw interceptions. Make the easy throws and at least a percentage of the hard ones. Check off at the line (if allowed) from a play that obviously has zero chance of working due to the D alignment to something that might. And if he can tuck it an run for easy yards and/or a first down...he's not afraid to do that.
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TigerNet Immortal [165742]
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Ok, and DJ does literally none of those well either.
Nov 9, 2022, 3:33 PM
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Now what?
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Orange Immortal [67583]
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TigerNet Immortal [165742]
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with the admittedly brief sample size we have to go on,
Nov 9, 2022, 12:36 PM
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yes, yes I do.
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Orange Immortal [67583]
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I can honestly say...
Nov 9, 2022, 12:38 PM
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that is not my perception.
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TigerNet Immortal [165742]
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I shall accept your disagreement graciously.***
Nov 9, 2022, 1:30 PM
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: I can honestly say...
Nov 9, 2022, 1:39 PM
[ in reply to I can honestly say... ] |
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I don't see a lack of effort from our team regardless of who is playing QB.
Against ND, I did see a demoralization from our team when they recognized that ND was whipping our tails on both sides of the ball.
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Ultimate Tiger [33063]
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National Champion [7587]
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The "rest of the team" is lacking confidence...
Nov 9, 2022, 1:34 PM
[ in reply to Does it look to you like... ] |
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in either one of these guys because neither of them is adequately prepared to play at a consistently high level. THAT is on the coaches. Both of these players have the physical skills, but whatever the offensive coaches do in practice is NOT working. Two weeks to prepare and we get the crap we saw last Saturday?
That said, it's clear that DJU is broken mentally. He can't make the decisions in a timely manner at game speed. Time to give the other guy a start. Let DJ come off the bench.
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: The "rest of the team" is lacking confidence...
Nov 9, 2022, 1:47 PM
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Two weeks of preparation for the ND game, in hindsight, had nothing to do with our performance in that game.
We had gotten by (pre-ND game) on a combination of either
(a) Opponents of whose lines of scrimmage were fundamentally less physically capable than ours on offense, or defense, or both)
------or----
(b) Opponents with injury related depth problems (such as FSU, which had 3 ... yes, three ... DTs out for our game)
We hadn't gotten toughened up; ND had pre-toughened OL and DL units from a few of their previous games.
In summary, our team (coaches especially) were complacent in believing that we had physical enough lines of scrimmage. And they were wrong.
We could have prepared for 4 weeks and still gotten whupped by ND.
Hopefully this splash of hot coffee in our faces will harden us for all of the upcoming games.
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Tiger Titan [46627]
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: I don't think our players lack effort.
Nov 9, 2022, 1:49 PM
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In your opinion, is our FB team poorly coached across the board, or just in selected aspects?
If only in selected aspects, then would you care to elaborate?
Thanks.
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Ultimate Tiger [33063]
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He's a troll and does this to bolster CBB. Don't fall for it***
Nov 9, 2022, 3:31 PM
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: He's a troll and does this to bolster CBB. Don't fall for it***
Nov 9, 2022, 8:39 PM
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Ha ha ... duly warned!
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Clemson Icon [26530]
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I have no doubt that DJ is well-liked; however, any
Nov 9, 2022, 12:28 PM
[ in reply to DJ is a well-liked respected leader on this team... ] |
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team member threatening to quit if he is benched should be shown the door promptly.
Dabo Swinney has proven to be tough-as-nails, when necessary. He is not running a frigging democracy; it is an authoritarian regime in which his word is law. Simply put, those team members have four responsibilities, if Dabo says to jump: to snap to attention, salute and say, "YES SIR," then start jumping...and keep jumping until he says, "Stop!"
Fortunately, from what I've seen, I'd be willing to bet the entire team would rally around Cade PDQ!
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Orange Immortal [67583]
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I'm not saying we shouldn't do it...
Nov 9, 2022, 12:33 PM
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I'm simply saying you have to be very calculated.
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: I'm not saying we shouldn't do it...
Nov 9, 2022, 1:50 PM
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You get it, Mr. BigCUFan.
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: I have no doubt that DJ is well-liked; however, any
Nov 9, 2022, 12:41 PM
[ in reply to I have no doubt that DJ is well-liked; however, any ] |
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It would be a catastrophe to the rest of our season, and also to significant parts of the locker room, if Dabo were to say to DJU 'tough shizz, you're on the bench except maybe for garbage time,'
We are all frustrated with the mistakes that DJU keeps mixing in between his good plays, but DJ still makes far more good plays than bad plays.
We'll be screwed for the next 2 years if DJU leaves, and if we're screwed for the next 2 years (with a poor overall win-loss record), then our recruiting will deteriorate to the NC State / Pitt levels.
Dabo has to be as careful as a surgeon; we still have our best chance to win for the rest of the 2022 season if DJU remains as our starting QB. Cade simply isn't ready yet.
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TigerNet Immortal [165742]
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We have been screwed for two years by DJ staying.
Nov 9, 2022, 12:44 PM
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We would absolutely not be worse off for two more years with him leaving.
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: We have been screwed for two years by DJ staying.
Nov 9, 2022, 2:09 PM
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We'd have lost 4 additional games last year by playing Taisun Phommachanh instead of DJU.
No change in QB was going to salvage our losses to UGA, NC State, or Pitt. (Yes, I remember DJU's horrible pik-6 on the shovel pass against Pitt. That gave Pitt 7 points; we lost by 10 points.)
With Taison P. at QB, we would have lost to Louisville, Syracuse, and FSU ... and IA state in the bowl.
We'd have beaten SC State with T.P.
I also believe that T.P. could have QB's the win of S.Carolina, but we'd have scored fewer points.
Maybe T.P. could have led us to wins over GA Tech and BC (if he ran / scrambled for every play when he didn't hand off to a RB).
Maybe T.P. could have led us to victory vs. WF last year (we dominated both lines of scrimmage and a run-only attack would have been successful regardless of whether DJU or TP was the QB).
We were all frustrated by DJU's play in 2021, but to say that we would have been better off last year without him is just nonsense.
If we had played Cade K. as starter right out of the gate in 2022, then opponents such as NC State, WF, and FSU would all have been losses. Maybe by mid-October, Cade would have been ready for the remainder of 2022 season. But my preference was for us to beat every body at the time that we played them, instead of sacrificing an excellent season in 2022 simply to give Cade experience and a head-start for the 2023 season.
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TigerNet Immortal [165742]
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None of us know about TP. We truly never saw the guy.
Nov 9, 2022, 2:39 PM
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Maybe it was the right move, maybe it was the wrong move, I'm not even equipped to answer it because Dabo didn't even let him out of the dungeon.
What I will say, is that you can take any of our less renown QB's from the last 10-15 years....Proctor, Harper, Stoudt, Bryant.....I truly don't care which, and if they were able to fog a mirror that day, they would have beaten Georgia last year.
Our defense was on fire, and DJ's pick 6 after a huge punt fumble recovery was their only TD of the game and a huge momentum shift. Add to that DJ having some of the worst pocket presence imaginable and taking 7 sacks (most from him not feeling pressure or holding the ball too long) and it was a game that did not have to go that way with even the most mediocre QB play.
Much like this season's issues with Streeter, Elliott's play calling did not help, with DJ's 14 rushes (for -22 yards) outnumbering all of our RB's combined (9 total touches).
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: None of us know about TP. We truly never saw the guy.
Nov 9, 2022, 2:44 PM
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GA Tech has seen TP (remember that he portal'd his way down to Atlanta), and TP is at the end of a (weak) QB lineup.
Even if GA Tech was Clemson's standard for QB excellence, then Clemson would still have not played TP.
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: None of us know about TP. We truly never saw the guy.
Nov 9, 2022, 2:53 PM
[ in reply to None of us know about TP. We truly never saw the guy. ] |
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With respect to the UGA game last year:
Our OL was completely dominated. (Our 2021 OL was very poor; UGA's DL was fantastic.)
Also, on DJU's pik-6 versus UGA our receiver had chickened out (cut off his route) on that over-the-middle pattern; that was what led to the pik-6 ... not a bad throw from DJU.
(As everyone knows, our WR unit was also very poor in 2021. Thanks largely to Antonio Williams, that unit has overall risen to average status.)
Any of those other 'second tier' Clemson QBs that you had mentioned (including Kelly Bryant, who was the best among those that you had listed) would not have been effective. No QB is effective with DLs and LBs sitting in his lap.
Quite frankly, I can only imagine that Deshaun Watson being able to QB us to victory vs. UGA last year.
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TigerNet Immortal [165742]
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Again, we can agree to disagree.
Nov 9, 2022, 3:05 PM
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In addition to taking all of those sacks, DJ was around 50% completion ratio with a very low 40s QBR. It was a rock bottom D1 QB performance that any of the QB's I mentioned could have bettered.
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: Again, we can agree to disagree.
Nov 9, 2022, 8:41 PM
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Fair enough, Mr. Obed.
Enjoyed the dialogue with you.
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Freshman [-97]
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Re: I have no doubt that DJ is well-liked; however, any
Nov 9, 2022, 1:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: I have no doubt that DJ is well-liked; however, any ] |
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We will be screwed if he stays. The possible loss of 2 young QBs, one here and one incoming, could be a result if he comes back. And I feel like his play and lack of fire has screwed us the past 2 years. He doesn’t look engaged and motivated to me.
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National Champion [7587]
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: "We'll be screwed for the next 2 years if DJU leaves..."
Nov 9, 2022, 2:23 PM
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What do you think will happen to our 2023 recruiting class (if we boot DJU and then lose 2 or 3 of our next 5 games)?
If you think (as I do) that our 2022 signing class was mediocre (with its late defections due BV leaving and due to our inability to sign top end RBs), then watch what happens to our 2023 class if we collapse at the end of this season.
Two consecutive sub-standard recruiting classes will start to yield the bitter fruit in 2023 season.
Then, the 2024 recruiting class will reflect the fact that most high end HS talent will no view Clemson as a destination that will have them be in CFP games.
The 2024 season will be worse than the 2023 season.
I watches how the consecutive year fall-off of recruiting classes worked out after Ken Hatfield took over for Danny Ford, with Hatfield's first season being 1990. 1990 season was excellent; having a poor signing class in 1990 made little difference on our 1990 football season. However, the 1991 signing class was also poor, and the cracks in our depth were showing up big-time despite us having a good year in 1991.
The roof fell in for the 1992 season. (The 1992 signing class was also weak).
(*) Never underestimate the impact that consecutive poor signing classes will have on us.
(*) We have to win big each year from here out (given that we cannot compete in the NIL world) if we are to sustain our successful recruiting. We cannot throw away a season in order to give experience to a QB that simply isn't ready yet.
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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National Champion [7587]
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No... he's not
Nov 9, 2022, 1:28 PM
[ in reply to DJ is a well-liked respected leader on this team... ] |
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It seems quite the opposite to me. DJ's doldrums, inconsistency and lack of good decision-making have been contagious with this team. If he's a leader of anything, he's a leader of uncertainty. And that never breeds confidence. The team needs to be able to rely on him being a solid player. The first time Cade came in I noticed a palpable excitement from the offense.
It's time to get Cade Klubnik on the field. It's time to let HIM start the game; and if he falters, bring DJU off the bench.
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: No... he's not
Nov 9, 2022, 8:48 PM
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If we do as per your recommendation, the odds-on outcome will be that DJU will believe that Dabo has deviated from his "best man will start" philosophy ... and will hit the portal.
Others (most likely backups) will also hit the portal, but those departures will not be awfully bad for us.
But in your scenario, there is a strong likelihood that we'll not have DJU as the fallback option if Cade falters.
As others have also warned, that this is a complicated situation.
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Dynasty Maker [3464]
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Re: No... he's not
Nov 9, 2022, 10:02 PM
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null
Message was edited by: LemonTiger®
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Tiger Spirit [10048]
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Re: DJ is a well-liked respected leader on this team...
Nov 9, 2022, 10:19 PM
[ in reply to DJ is a well-liked respected leader on this team... ] |
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and the possibility exists of potentially losing the locker room by benching him in favor of a true freshman.
Not now, I think he risk losing the locker room if he doesn’t. Where on earth does everyone get this fairy tail notion that these players care more about another player starting than they do winning? They ain’t here to lose
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Hall of Famer [8598]
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Not fair to remainder of team.***
Nov 9, 2022, 12:45 PM
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110%er [4082]
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Re: One point we might consider about Dabo's "managing" of DJ
Nov 9, 2022, 12:46 PM
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There are a group of people on here who are worried about DJ getting his feelings hurt and transferring to another school.
First if he is that fragile (I think not) then he is no leader at all. Second if he is that fragile, what school would want him (again I think he is not).
But the other issue is there is a QB that has not really been given the chance to lead this team and yet people are saying he is not ready. Cade has not been given a chance to show that he can lead this team. A few plays at GT, handing the ball off against Syracuse and being put in with the team trailing inside the 10 yard line, I don’t call that a fair evaluation.
To keep doing the same thing (for two years) and expect different results….
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: One point we might consider about Dabo's "managing" of DJ
Nov 9, 2022, 8:50 PM
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We have gotten much different results (offense's performance) ... much better results ... than last year.
This is easy to look up.
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CU Medallion [19100]
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Re: One point we might consider about Dabo's "managing" of DJ
Nov 9, 2022, 12:46 PM
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I think Dabo truly believed DJ gave us the best chance to win and that is why DJ was the starter. I think he hoped that we could get ahead in some games that allowed him to get CK more reps and give him a better chance to evaluate his readiness but that just hasn't happened. Now that our playoff hopes are pretty much null and void, he can let the reins out on CK and see what we can expect for the future. I hope he does that and does not get too conservative by keeping DJ in there longer than he needs to be.
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Clemson Icon [26530]
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Actually, a pretty fair assessment IMO.***
Nov 9, 2022, 1:02 PM
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CU Guru [1538]
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National Champion [7478]
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Re: One point we might consider about Dabo's "managing" of DJ
Nov 9, 2022, 1:11 PM
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Well, he sure did talk up DJ and we see how that’s turned out.
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: One point we might consider about Dabo's "managing" of DJ
Nov 9, 2022, 8:57 PM
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We've lost 1 game this year with DJU as starting QB, and we'd have gotten blown out by WF without DJU's terrific performance.
Things have turned out very well, with ND being the exception.
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Walk-On [108]
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Re: One point we might consider about Dabo's "managing" of DJ
Nov 9, 2022, 10:40 PM
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Clemson would be 7-2 if DJ was left in for Cuse
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: One point we might consider about Dabo's "managing" of DJ
Nov 9, 2022, 2:40 PM
[ in reply to Re: One point we might consider about Dabo's "managing" of DJ ] |
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Your approach is smart. If DJU really stinks it up against Louisville (which I do not predict, but moving on), then put Cade in. If DJU plays really well and we are blowing out Louisville, then put Cade in for Q4 to get him some additional game experience.
Louisville (best case scenario): If Malik Cunningham's broken (left hand) finger causes him to have problems handling snaps or in ball security when he runs, then maybe we'll have enough early success against Louisville to get Cade in for a bunch of quality snaps.
Miami is terrible and have gone in the tank. Really hoping that Cade can get in a lot of snaps then.
S.Carolina has a weak OL, and Rattler has been exposed (again) as a mediocre QB at best. We should beat S.Carolina badly, and ... again ... will hopefully have plenty of opportunities for Cade to get more high quality playing time.
UNC in the ACC Championship? Cade will only play if he really shows out during Miami and S.Carolina games. (I don't see us blowing out UNC.)
Bowl game? See UNC / ACC championship game.
Doing it this way would not needlessly burn games for the remainder of 2022 season, and would also give Cade excellent game day experience for the 2023 season.
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Commissioner [923]
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IMO - it can't get much worse with Cade***
Nov 9, 2022, 2:16 PM
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Walk-On [122]
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Re: IMO - it can't get much worse with Cade***
Nov 9, 2022, 6:00 PM
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The biggest mistake our coaching staff made with D.J. was recruiting him. He can't operate a run/pass offense. He is too slow. I have never seen any time on him in any quickness drill. In my opinion he is about as quick as an average offensive lineman. If he played for a team with a pro-type offense, he might would be ok, but he is not ok in our offense.
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: IMO - it can't get much worse with Cade***
Nov 9, 2022, 9:38 PM
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DJU was a 5* QB with a great arm and a successful runner in HS. There wasn't a single college program in the country that wouldn't have wanted him to compete for their QB spot.
Clemson's problem was that DJU's games as a FR in 2020 was when TL was out, and that DJU had Clemson's recent all-world WR Corp to throw the ball to.
Our WR room in 2021 and 2022 simply doesn't compare to the terrific WR corp of 2020. Not even close.
We also had Travis Etienne in 2020 who could catch passes and was a constant homerun threat when running the ball. Opposing defense's DBs had to keep an eye out for T.Etienne at all times; this opened up all kinds of space for our all-world WR corp to get even more open.
Our 2021 OL was awful when compared to 2020's average OL.
All of the above are huge factors in both the confidence and overall success for a QB.
Despite DJU not being fast like Trevor Lawrence (TL was really FAST), nor being quick & fast like Deshaun Watson, DJU can nevertheless move pretty well. Maybe you missed his long run late in the ND game when he was stopped at the 1/2 yard line. If you missed it, then watch the replay and then tell yourself that he can't run.
And finally, we were 8 - 0 before the ND game. As Dabo said in the recently-posted interview, the Q4 pik-6 was Ngata's fault. Dabo said DJU threw a perfect back-shoulder throw, but Ngata did not get his head around and kept going down field. The ND defender had no WR to 'block him out' of the thrown pass. Say hello Pik-6.
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Tiger Spirit [9791]
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Re: IMO - it can't get much worse with Cade***
Nov 9, 2022, 9:00 PM
[ in reply to IMO - it can't get much worse with Cade*** ] |
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We've lost 1 game this year. DJU is has played a huge part in winning 7 of our 8 wins.
I suppose that we won't lose any games with Cade as our QB.
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Valley Protector [1404]
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My opinion matters not one red cent
Nov 9, 2022, 10:32 PM
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But I think that Dabo understands that the coordinators and receiver talent have been underwhelming. I feel like DJ could thrive with a better set of play calls. I know some of the pro teams come out with a set of 10 scripted plays to start the game and it seems to help the younger QB’s a lot. Not sure it would help a lot with our current OC though
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Walk-On [108]
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Re: My opinion matters not one red cent
Nov 9, 2022, 10:46 PM
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DJ also seems to play better with some tempo (he’s had a few 2 min drives in some games before half this season)
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