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Replies: 101
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Webmaster [∞]
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Football Update: Dabo on Clemson strength coach critics
Jan 1, 2013, 12:28 AM
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CU Medallion [18213]
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Re: Football Update: Dabo on Clemson strength coach critics
Jan 1, 2013, 12:30 AM
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Tell 'em, Dabo. Call 'em out. Not one of the little pu$$ies will show.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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I remember you bashing Dabo and staff a few weeks ago David***
Jan 1, 2013, 12:49 AM
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CU Medallion [18213]
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Really? Read it again. I said I think I understand why SOS
Jan 1, 2013, 1:01 AM
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has beaten him four in a row. He talked about how HUGE the Allbarn win was to start the season, but started downplaying the Sakerlina game a week before kickoff. I said when he starts taking OUR rivalry as seriously as HIS rivalry, we'd start winning. Am I right?
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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A win and you're in the BCS and you think they
Jan 1, 2013, 1:25 AM
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Didn't take it serious? Not buying that for a minute, go back and watch and see the pain on his face after that game
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CU Medallion [18213]
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Again. Read it one more time.
Jan 1, 2013, 1:33 AM
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I was comparing how he talks about Allbarn and Sakerlina. Tell me where I'm missing something. The Allbarn game was HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE. A loss to Sakerlina doesn't diminish our season whatsoever.
He doesn't take OUR rival the same as HIS rival.
Nevertheless, I prefaced the whole thing by saying I'm a Dabo fan and I believe he's good for Clemson. I'm just ready for the day when I hear him say, "There is no more important game on our schedule than Sakerlina. Winning the state championship is our goal and this game is HUUUUUUGE!"
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Paw Warrior [4807]
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I think you're misinterpreting Dabo's intent
Jan 1, 2013, 8:58 AM
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Dabo is the eternal optimist and always wants to find a positive spin. If we'd won the SCar game he would have touted it as the biggest win of the season--possibly of the last 4 seasons. But we lost, and to me it was pretty obvious that he was trying not to dwell on it and let the bad feeling linger.
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CU Medallion [18213]
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Well, I don't want to belabor the point. What I'm talking
Jan 1, 2013, 9:39 AM
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about, however, is all the talk during the week leading up to Sakerlina how it will still be a great season even if we lose to them....again.
Truth is, I don't diminish the accomplishment of winning 10 games. The 11th win made it a great season, however.
I really, really want the SCar game to be as important as all the AU games were to Dabo. Heretofore, I'm not convinced they were. I would love to be proven wrong for many years to come.
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Paw Warrior [4807]
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Re: Well, I don't want to belabor the point. What I'm talking
Jan 1, 2013, 9:48 AM
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OK, I'll buy that. I also want him to talk about the game in the lead-up week like it's the biggest most important game we've ever played.
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Standout [218]
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Commissioner [942]
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CU Medallion [18213]
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Re: Well, I don't want to belabor the point. What I'm talking
Jan 2, 2013, 9:08 AM
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There is no way you can practice like that when you have only one week to prepare. That would be suicide.
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Clemson Icon [27789]
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Exactly. Started the season with mostly brand new OL & DL.
Jan 2, 2013, 9:38 AM
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We already had numerous injuries to DBs and LBs and then lost some guys to normal game attrition. Prepping for almost a month for a bowl game with nothing but one game to play is totally different than sustaining things with limited depth for an entire season. As we build depth, I can see more 'physicality' in the practices. This year was about developing that depth.
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: I think you're misinterpreting Dabo's intent
Jan 2, 2013, 1:32 AM
[ in reply to I think you're misinterpreting Dabo's intent ] |
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I think there has to be a balance between optimism and realism. A peropetual "chirpy" optimism is as unrealistic as unbridled pessimism. I think Dabo errors on the side of compulsive optimism, verging at times on denial. I do think he's growing up a bit, although I didn't really care for his post-game comments about us now being a national championship team. Staements are best made on the playing field, not on tv.
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: Football Update: Dabo on Clemson strength coach critics
Jan 2, 2013, 1:20 AM
[ in reply to Re: Football Update: Dabo on Clemson strength coach critics ] |
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I'll show. I still doubt the S&C program. For this one game we practiced, best against best and tackled to the ground; one player said, my god, he was actually sore after these practices; wouldn't you be sore after any dedcent practice? And they ran gassers for a change. Imagine that. I suspect the influence of Venables in this. No, I'm not sold on Batson by any means, and I think the future will prove these doubts to be realistic. Just my opinion. Don't pop the champagne just yet.
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Clemson Icon [27789]
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Josh Watson said he was more sore than from some games.
Jan 2, 2013, 1:38 AM
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That's a totally different statement than just being sore.
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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Re: Josh Watson said he was more sore than from some games.
Jan 2, 2013, 9:02 AM
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Clemson players during the Ford era said that games were easy compared to the practices. Maybe if we'd done that all season we'd be playing in Miami next week. We absolutely have the talent for it.
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TigerNet Champion [117416]
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it's times like this when i love him most.***
Jan 1, 2013, 12:31 AM
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CU Guru [1626]
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Re: Re: Football Update: Dabo on Clemson strength coach critics
Jan 1, 2013, 12:31 AM
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I would love to just better have a Puke bucket ready! Go Tigers!
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Orange Blooded [3769]
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He speaking the truth. We were more physical and.....
Jan 1, 2013, 12:32 AM
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physically prepared for this game than LSU players.
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Orange Phenom [14758]
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we were NOT more physical then LSU, we won for different
Jan 1, 2013, 12:34 AM
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reasons.
Whether or not we need to be more physical from a brute force standpoint to win is debatable and certainly after this win it hurts the argument.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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We weren't gassed at the end. They were. That's a tribute
Jan 1, 2013, 12:35 AM
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to strength and conditioning.
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CU Guru [1899]
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Re: We weren't gassed at the end. They were. I AGREE!
Jan 1, 2013, 12:37 AM
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I AGREE!!!
GREAT WIN!!!
GO TIGERS!!!
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Letterman [283]
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Orange Immortal [62695]
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Re: We weren't gassed at the end. They were. That's a tribute
Jan 1, 2013, 1:11 AM
[ in reply to We weren't gassed at the end. They were. That's a tribute ] |
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More a tribute to practicing against a high tempo offense for 2 years more so than S&C. Remember WV just a year ago. Our guys were absolutely gassed starting the 4th quarter in that game. S&C wasn't working for us then. I'm thinking this though. Maybe, just maybe with all the crap that has been talked about Batson and his S&C program may have woke him up. I hope so anyway!!!
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Reasonable point, but overlooks the "conditioning" part of
Jan 1, 2013, 10:18 AM
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Strength & Conditioning. We may not be stronger, but it was obvious were in better physical condition.
Also, while their defense was giving our offensive line fits, our defense was doing the same to their O-line, and not just late in the game, but from the opening gun.
With the SCAR game and last year's Orange Bowl as incentive, I think that our coaches used the last month to really, really address the "toughness" issue from a physical and a mental standpoint and it paid off big time.
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Orange Blooded [4854]
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: I'd say all those LSU Tigers dropping like flies in winter..
Jan 2, 2013, 1:41 AM
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NOt really. They were performances due to the LSU coaches's need to slow the game down. It was ridiculous.
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Orange Blooded [4506]
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Trainer [47]
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Re: Strength and CONDITIONING! Which team was faking injuries
Jan 1, 2013, 1:54 AM
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LSU was faking injuries to slow down the tempo, total BS on there behalf.
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Paw Warrior [4807]
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That's pure bull
Jan 1, 2013, 9:00 AM
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You don't fake injuries on your best players, your starters, on the most critical drive of the game to "slow down the tempo". What a load of crap.
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CU Medallion [18213]
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Really? If they're going to take themselves out for a
Jan 1, 2013, 9:43 AM
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breather anyway, you don't think they took a sit-down on the field for the benefit of their teammates before going to the sideline? I think it was obvious. And every one of them could have walked off the field long before they did. It was a tactic taught by their coaches.
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Paw Warrior [4807]
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I will concede this point
Feb 2, 2018, 6:08 PM
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I wasn't paying as close attention as I should have when they went down with injuries ("injuries"). There does seem to be a consensus that they were faking it as a cheap tactic. I figured they were just too gassed to keep themselves from getting hurt, but it did seem awful coincidental for them to go down several plays in a row.
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Commissioner [942]
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Oculus Spirit [39224]
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Offense is less tiring than defense. Known fact.
Jan 1, 2013, 6:44 PM
[ in reply to Strength and CONDITIONING! Which team was faking injuries ] |
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It is not nearly as difficult to play 100 plays of offense as it is to play 100 plays of defense.
How'd we look when OUR defense was on the field for 40 minutes? I remember Dylan Thompson powerwalking his way to a 3rd and 19 conversion...
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TigerNet Champion [117416]
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yes, cu was the more physical team & didn't take lsu's
Jan 1, 2013, 12:42 AM
[ in reply to we were NOT more physical then LSU, we won for different ] |
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chippy crap either.
lsu has a fantastic defense that was going to make plays and did. i hope clemson continues to get the joes to play that athletically with that speed soon.
their oline is all world and cu's dline stoned it.
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CU Medallion [18213]
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Re: yes, cu was the more physical team & didn't take lsu's
Jan 1, 2013, 12:49 AM
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That's enough cowbell. I'm throwing in the towel.
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TigerNet Champion [117416]
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lol. happy new year david!***
Jan 1, 2013, 12:51 AM
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CU Medallion [18213]
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Re: lol. happy new year david!***
Jan 1, 2013, 1:03 AM
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Prospero ano nuevo, hermano.
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Asst Coach [824]
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Re: we were NOT more physical then LSU, we won for different
Jan 1, 2013, 9:28 AM
[ in reply to we were NOT more physical then LSU, we won for different ] |
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You are absolutely insane if you don't think we were as physical as they were. We were in the backfield every play. Ask Mettenberger if we were physical. You're just pissed because you can't ##### about the S&C program. GET OVER IT.
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Oculus Spirit [39224]
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110%er [3660]
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Varsity [201]
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Re: He speaking the truth. We were more physical and.....
Jan 1, 2013, 12:35 AM
[ in reply to He speaking the truth. We were more physical and..... ] |
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its kinda strange that a HC at a major university lets a 'small pocket of fans' as he calls them, on a message board bother him so much he has to call them out after a big win.
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Orange Blooded [4854]
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Do you really think this is confined to message boards?
Jan 1, 2013, 12:38 AM
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smh
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Orange Blooded [2253]
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Orange Blooded [4506]
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Orange Blooded [4854]
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I doubt there's anything that can be done about his...
Jan 1, 2013, 12:40 AM
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condition. 
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Orange Immortal [62695]
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Rival Killer [3009]
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: Seems like Spurlid.....
Jan 2, 2013, 1:49 AM
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Really intelligent.
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Paw Warrior [4811]
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Commissioner [908]
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I don't blame losses on Batson, but I don't credit him with
Jan 1, 2013, 12:37 AM
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this win either. They only ran like 45 plays on us. Our defense would have been gashed for 50 points if we had to defend 100 plays. Blown coverages and missed tackles are the only reason we aren't undefeated.
Special teams needs to be an area of concern heading into next year. LSU torched us. The return in the FSU game was the turning point. Our return is garbage also.
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Orange Blooded [4506]
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LOL!! Is this all you've got?***
Jan 1, 2013, 12:40 AM
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Freshman [7]
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Re: LOL!! Is this all you've got?***
Jan 1, 2013, 12:42 AM
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I guess Dabo doesn't remember getting owned by South Carolina a few weeks ago. How happy was he with Batson then?
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Orange Blooded [4506]
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Old news!! We played LSU tonight and WON!!***
Jan 1, 2013, 12:45 AM
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Freshman [7]
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Re: Old news!! We played LSU tonight and WON!!***
Jan 1, 2013, 12:51 AM
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I'm a die hard Clemson Fan and thank God we won tonight. But Batson needs to go. There are the clemson fans who let wins obscure program problems like our S&C program. I choose to identify the weaknesses and vocalize them so we can get better. What's the one common theme among clemson teams the last 12 or 13 years? Weak/soft players when compared to SEC teams. Dabo should go get an LSU/Alabama S&C coordinator and take this program to the next level. If we had one, we're probably playing for a NC right now instead of playing in the peach bowl. Great win for our tigers, but I think we can get better. If nothing else, even the best companies in the world fire some of their leaders to change things up. Sometimes change can drive better results.
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CU Medallion [18213]
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*raises hand* The chair recognizes David78®
Jan 1, 2013, 1:36 AM
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I would like to nominate tricu05 as stupidest poster of the week.
Second?
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Commissioner [942]
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Walk-On [108]
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Re: LOL!! Is this all you've got?***
Jan 1, 2013, 12:48 AM
[ in reply to Re: LOL!! Is this all you've got?*** ] |
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You waited three years, and THIS is your first post? GTFOH, crawl back in your hole, coot.
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Freshman [7]
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Re: LOL!! Is this all you've got?***
Jan 1, 2013, 12:58 AM
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Was this directed at me? Because if it is, you couldn't be more wrong. I hate the coots. And honestly, I'm disappointed that a clemson fan would say something like this to anyone. We just won a big game. Sorry, I love clemson, but I'm not someone who always wears the orange shaded glasses. Dabo does. And at times it gets him in trouble. Kinda like the last four years against the effing coots. Just try to keep a level head and think about things objectively. Our program needs that. Thank goodness you aren't the spokesperson for clemson.
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: LOL!! Is this all you've got?***
Jan 2, 2013, 1:55 AM
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Amen.
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Head Coach [950]
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: Blow it out
Jan 2, 2013, 1:56 AM
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Does your IQ exceed your age? I doubt it. You embarass the Clemson fan base.
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Orange Blooded [4854]
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Scout Team [178]
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Re: I don't blame losses on Batson, but I don't credit him with
Jan 1, 2013, 12:45 AM
[ in reply to I don't blame losses on Batson, but I don't credit him with ] |
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That is exactly what lost the Fla. State game. That one return. That is the only statistic LSU beat us in.
Go you beautiful Clemson Death Valley Tigers!!!!
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: I don't blame losses on Batson, but I don't credit him with
Jan 2, 2013, 1:57 AM
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How sweet.
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Dynasty Maker [3381]
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Some of the posts on this board
Jan 1, 2013, 1:13 AM
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Are silly. I run a successful hotel that has very high guest satisfacion scores. We consistently do well because we recognize a weak link and address it. By cutting it out of our family. Do not fool yourself. Did you see the LSU players vs ours. Tajh and Nuk pulled it out. Our O line got their ##### handed to them. We still need to work on the S& C. I will say this though. Maybe we should ask Sam Montgomery how small his testicles have gotten since his has been at LSU. I truly feel the NCAA is dropping the ball with drug testing.
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CU Medallion [18213]
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Re: Some of the posts on this board
Jan 1, 2013, 1:22 AM
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Their OL got THEIR azzes handed to THEM. What's your point?
I think you're a whiny buttsniffer.
But that's just me.
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Freshman [5]
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Re: Some of the posts on this board
Jan 1, 2013, 1:50 AM
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Agreed
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Commissioner [942]
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Freshman [5]
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Re: Some of the posts on this board
Jan 1, 2013, 1:49 AM
[ in reply to Some of the posts on this board ] |
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What the heck are you talking about? We had 32 first downs and put up 445 yards on their defense and you are going to criticize our O line. Have you lost your mind?
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CU Medallion [18213]
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You may be on my list
Jan 1, 2013, 1:53 AM
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of favorite posters. +1
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Standout [201]
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Re: Some of the posts on this board
Jan 1, 2013, 7:18 PM
[ in reply to Some of the posts on this board ] |
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I am in complete agreement. I think that roid use is probably rampant, and read an article recently that stated this based on interviews w/ players at various programs across the country.
We won despite our offensive line. We did not have a consistent running game. Tahj was clobbered about every time he dropped back. This was one of the most gutsy performances by one of our quarterbacks that I can remember. Can you imagine how great an offense we would have if we could run consistently and give our quarterback time to throw?
If Miles/LSU O-coordinator weren't such morons, LSU would have won the game. However, Clemson saw the opportunity seized it and gutted out a great win. Nuk and Boyd were awesome. And the defense played great. They can only defend the plays that the other team runs, and the plays that LSU ran, by and large, they stuffed. Very enjoyable to watch.
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Amateur [41]
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Re: I don't blame losses on Batson, but I don't credit him with
Jan 1, 2013, 1:17 AM
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How the f?$$ can u be negative after a win like that on new years?I'd tell u to go ahead and give up on life but I'm afraid you might already be thinking about it
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: I don't blame losses on Batson, but I don't credit him with
Jan 2, 2013, 1:44 PM
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Cretinous beyond comprehension. Are you really a Clemson fan?
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Amateur [41]
TigerPulse: 78%
5
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Re: I don't blame losses on Batson, but I don't credit him with
Jan 1, 2013, 1:24 AM
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How the f?$$ can u be negative after a win like that on new years?I'd tell u to go ahead and give up on life but I'm afraid you might already be thinking about it
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Trainer [47]
TigerPulse: 93%
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How much credit do you give Batson?
Jan 1, 2013, 1:38 AM
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How much of this is the coaches, are the players themselves or that sports nutrition person we have now getting the guys ready and prepared for this game, I think Joey gets way too much credit from Dabo all the time, but if he did get the guys prepare for this game, thanks and nice work Joey but I would like ask you one question Joey what took so long? You could have done this a lot sooner.
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1st Rounder [623]
TigerPulse: 49%
21
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Re: How much credit do you give Batson?
Jan 1, 2013, 4:42 AM
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Dabo is in a much better position than u to judge coach batsons job, so let him do it, just like he did tonight. Regardless of how much y'all whine and think you know how to fix a program, you don't and you won't. They beat a top team tonight, so whether you believe he had something to do with it or not is irrelevant. Just like Dabo said, he would welcome and wishes anybody would go through those work outs. Just because you can't find it on YouTube doesn't mean they don't do a good job! Heck of a job all the way around, especially to those seniors and every other young man on that team who played tonight. Go tigers! This is why I can't wait for next year
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Commissioner [942]
TigerPulse: 40%
24
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Re: How much credit do you give Batson?
Jan 2, 2013, 2:06 AM
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And your point???
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Paw Warrior [4785]
TigerPulse: 100%
37
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He was talkin' bout that group over @ STS, and a few here.***
Jan 1, 2013, 1:56 AM
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Rival Killer [2708]
TigerPulse: 99%
33
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I don't do it much, but
Jan 1, 2013, 8:28 AM
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I disagree with CDS. I thought we were whipped up front on offense most of the night. They seemed much more physical as a team overall. JMO
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All-TigerNet [11934]
TigerPulse: 100%
46
Posts: 16363
Joined: 1998
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LSU's offensive line was whipped by our D line ... does
Jan 1, 2013, 9:42 AM
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Les Miles need to fire his strength & conditioning coach?
Their entire defensive was $ucking wind in the late 4th quarter, while ours was producing critical 3 & outs to give Tajh and Nuk the ball at crunch time.
We faced arguably the best defense in the entire country ...
We got "punched in the mouth" right away to start both halves and wiped the blood off our lip and kicked them right in the nuts when the game was there to be won.
We were the tougher team with the more dominate players when facing a top tier SEC squad on national TV.
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CU Medallion [18213]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 22450
Joined: 1999
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^^^This +1***
Jan 1, 2013, 9:47 AM
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Clemson Icon [27789]
TigerPulse: 100%
54
Posts: 48293
Joined: 2010
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Commissioner [942]
TigerPulse: 40%
24
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Re: I don't do it much, but
Jan 2, 2013, 2:10 AM
[ in reply to I don't do it much, but ] |
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I agree. For the most part, our OL got stomped. Tagh had virtually no protection and took a terrible beating. And, we had no consistent running game. Our OL continues to be mediocre at best.
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Game Day Hero [4509]
TigerPulse: 99%
36
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Dabo makes a very good point AND ...
Jan 1, 2013, 10:18 AM
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I am beginning to think that perhaps WE really don't know what we are talking about and maybe we should just let the coaches coach and the players play and shut up (unless somethings obvious of course)
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Game Changer [1669]
TigerPulse: 97%
31
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Physicality of practices
Jan 1, 2013, 10:24 AM
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I tribute the win to the nature of our practices and live tackling into the season. This is something that Venables brought from OU. Danny always practiced harder than the games were played so that the games were played at a slower pace.
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1st Rounder [665]
TigerPulse: 87%
21
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I knew this would happen. The poor play of the O-Line gets
Jan 1, 2013, 6:35 PM
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overshadowed by the win. Hey Dabo go back and watch the film on how our O-Line was physically beaten up by LSU. LSU was more physical. Clemson was better conditioned.
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Athletic Dir [1164]
TigerPulse: 79%
26
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Agree coach. I do not understand why anyone would question
Jan 1, 2013, 7:03 PM
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anything. The record is horrible of doing so...
Questioned the offense early in the Napier year? Who said there was no problem? Who was proven right?
Questioned the Steele defense early on when they couldn't stop cupcake teams? Who said there was no problem? Who was proven right?
And anyway we are known as a physical team. Just ask Scar, WV, Ralph Friedgen. And forget about what we see with our lying eyes.
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Commissioner [942]
TigerPulse: 40%
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Re: Agree coach. I do not understand why anyone would question
Jan 2, 2013, 2:16 AM
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OMG. Reality. You are going to get flamed by the party-line police.
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Rival Killer [2608]
TigerPulse: 90%
33
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A little baffled....
Jan 1, 2013, 7:23 PM
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I thought Dabo and the coaches didn't pay attention to the boards anyway. Then, all of a sudden, they respond to all the critics - on the board, I presume. Was there an article I missed?
If this is the case, then does Dabo also read all the positive posts about himself and his coaches on the board? b/c there's more of those than anything else.
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Rookie [12]
TigerPulse: 32%
2
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Re: He speaking the truth. We were more physical and.....
Jan 1, 2013, 7:24 PM
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You must have watched a different game than me. You are acting like LSU got blown off the field.
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Paw Warrior [4714]
TigerPulse: 100%
37
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One game doesn't make up for 18 yrs of mediocre football
Jan 1, 2013, 8:47 PM
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where we've been pushed around like rag doll at times.
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Commissioner [942]
TigerPulse: 40%
24
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Re: One game doesn't make up for 18 yrs of mediocre football
Jan 2, 2013, 2:18 AM
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Yup.
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Dynasty Maker [3437]
TigerPulse: 71%
34
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Conditioning of Clemson OL is amazing
Jan 1, 2013, 9:09 PM
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LSU players were cramping all over the field. A couple had to be helped off the field after the game. Clemson played the game with six or seven offensive linemen. Amazing. All of the stories out of Louisiana mention LSU's "spent" defense. When Clemson gets the tempo right, it is tough to stop.
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Orange Blooded [3788]
TigerPulse: 99%
35
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Re: Conditioning of Clemson OL is amazing
Jan 2, 2013, 9:07 AM
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I agree, their conditioning is great, but they got pushed around for 3 quarters before LSU finally got tired. A QB other than Tajh would've probably been sacked about 4 or 5 more times and lost the game.
Ecstatic with the win but there's definitely room for improvement, and it starts with the Oline. 4 of the 5 starters come back, and I expect them to be a much better unit against UGA. If we don't see marked improvement on August 31, then someone's to blame.
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Orange Phenom [14989]
TigerPulse: 82%
49
Posts: 23437
Joined: 1998
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Re: Conditioning of Clemson OL is amazing
Jan 2, 2013, 9:21 AM
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uh we ran 100 plays. they were not all run in the 4th quarter. geeeeez. why is it impossible for some of you people to be happy. we just played a defense with 6 of the top 50 players in the draft on it and gashed them when it counted. for gods sake, get a life.
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CU Medallion [18213]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 22450
Joined: 1999
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Re: Conditioning of Clemson OL is amazing
Jan 2, 2013, 9:31 AM
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He'd be the guy who wins the lottery and is totally peed off by the taxes he had to pay.
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Orange Blooded [3788]
TigerPulse: 99%
35
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I'm incredibly happy
Jan 2, 2013, 10:41 AM
[ in reply to Re: Conditioning of Clemson OL is amazing ] |
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but the Oline still gave up 5 sacks, and it easily could've been 8 or 10 with someone other than the escape-artist Tajh Boyd.
Pretty much everywhere else we did great, the D-Line stepped up BIG, never seen Goodman play like that, backs and receivers looked good (Nuk was incredible) and even the DBs looked better than they have all year.
The only glaring weakness was the OLine, and even they have improved from the beginning of the year. I'm just saying that if we want to go all the way next year, something I fully believe we'll be able to do, then the line has the most critical need for improvement.
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Orange Blooded [3350]
TigerPulse: 97%
34
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Truetiger, Bosox, and Battery
Jan 2, 2013, 9:27 AM
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Can you please send your resume to the AD. We need you to be out me HC since you obviously know so much more than someone who's been in the game they're whole life and just won 11 games.
Thanks
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Orange Blooded [3350]
TigerPulse: 97%
34
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Different era dude. Apples and oranges
Jan 2, 2013, 9:29 AM
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Different schemes
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