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Letterman [177]
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So you want a OL from the portal EH?!
Oct 6, 2021, 12:49 AM
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See attached chart.
247s 2021 Top OL Transfers.
My review of each and rating on "Clemson fit."
17 total.
9 were rated no chance or not worth it.
Guys who want to be starting LT with 1/2 years left are unlikely to fit in with Clemson having McFadden on a final year.
OCs good but many only 1yr left.
**Added players since screenshot was blurry**
Wanya Morris
RT
Junior
Tennessee
Oklahoma
Left before Jeremy Pruitt fired. Wanted to go to TAMU, USC, or Oklahoma. No known interest in Clemson. Offered but never visited. Is a backup at OU now.
Cain Madden
RG Grad
Marshall
Norte Dame
Was a walk-on at Marshall. Got better, chose ND over FSU. Never recruited. From Ohio, unlikely FSU had a shot. No real chance.
Doug Nester
RG Junior
Virginia Tech
West Virginia
From WV. Has multiple friends on WVU team. Never recruited. No chance.
Obinna Eze
LT Grad
Memphis
TCU
Loved Memphis and a top player. Wanted to continue playing and start at LT. Huge man and would be a great pickup for anyone. But wanted to start at LT for sure.
Bryan Hudson
OC Sophomore
Virginia Tech Louisville
Left to get closer to home. Never recruited. Not even starting on current team. Sisters go to school at U of L. No chance.
Dare Rosenthal
LT Junior
LSU Kentucky
Left after having off-field issues and disciplinary actions at LSU. Never recruited. Would you take an LSU disciplinary problem? No.
Mike Novitsky
OC Junior
Buffalo Kansas
Left to be with his head coach Lance Leipold in Kansas. Never recruited. No chance.
Jahmir Johnson
LT Grad
Tennessee Texas A&M
Transferred from Rhode Island to Yuma to Tenn to now TAMU. 4 teams. Wanted to be a starting LT and improve NFL draft stock. Already a 4 team transfer.
Eric Wilson
LG/OC Grad
Harvard Penn St
Minnesota guy. Wanted to go to Auburn and Gus but he was fired. Penn St wasn't sure if he would start for them as he had a year off from Ivy League not playing.
Jacob Gall
OC Grad
Buffalo Baylor
Small and undersized but a highly rated guard. Entered in May 2021 and picked Baylor in less than 2 weeks. 6'2'' 300. Would he start? No.
Stacey Wilkins
RT RS Fresh
Oklahoma Louisiana Monroe
Decided to leave Oklahoma because he was going to be 4th string. Offered by Clemson. Never visited. A backup RT at Louisana Monroe. Unlikely to start.
Justice Oluwaseun
RT Junior
UNLV Miami
Wanted to find a place to compete and picked Miami. 2-star guy. Never offered by any SEC or ACC school. Not even starting at Miami.
Orlando Umana
OC Senior
Utah Ole Miss
All Pac12 guy. Helped Zack Moss rack up yards. Injuries hurt him in 2020. Transferred in late June. Picked Ole Miss in less than 2 weeks. A proven player with some injury issues.
Danny Godlevske
OC Grad
Miami OH Oklahoma St
Transferred in December. Played 3 games in the MAC in 2020. Injured in 2017. 6'3'' and 296. With only 1 year left and from Indiana. Very unlikely, and was a Dec decision.
Jarrett Horst
LT Junior
Arkansas St Michigan St
Went from no-name recruit at Ark Ellsworth CC to Ark St to Michigan St. Made decision in December. Wanted to be a starting LT. Was a preseason All-Sun Belt guy.
Ty'Kiest Crawford
RT Sophomore
Charlotte Arkansas
From Texas. Backup at Arkansas now. Committed to Ark under Chad Morris. Wanted to go back to Arkansas.
TJ Storment
LT Grad
TCU Texas Tech
Was All-Big 12 guy. But went to 5 different schools! Got waiver to stay in conference. Didn't want to leave the conference. Already went to ODU, Fullerton, Colorado St, TCU, now TT. Nah.
https://twitter.com/TheMorganTShow/status/1445610707609743367
Message was edited by: mothetiger®
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Valley Protector [1418]
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What position are you abbreviating w/ the letters OC? ****
Oct 6, 2021, 6:17 AM
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Trainer [40]
TigerPulse: 98%
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Re: What position are you abbreviating w/ the letters OC? ****
Oct 6, 2021, 6:54 AM
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Offense Center
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All-TigerNet [5608]
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no, i want an offensive line from the 1989 clemson team
Oct 6, 2021, 7:31 AM
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110%er [3665]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: no, i want an offensive line from the 1989 clemson team
Oct 6, 2021, 7:39 AM
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They may not have the same speed now that they're past 50.
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Heisman Winner [80938]
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When I blow that list up large enough that I can see it,
Oct 6, 2021, 8:51 AM
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I can't see it. But, I don't need to, because I did that exercise already last week, and I found only ONE candidate who could possibly have helped from a pure ability standpoint, the guy that left Tennessee. And, if you are leaving Tennessee right now, with the shape their program is in, doubtful that you would fit in with the Clemson culture.
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Letterman [177]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: When I blow that list up large enough that I can see it,
Oct 6, 2021, 9:37 AM
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Not sure what's up with the image. I manually added in the names and my research. I also agree...not many to choose from. And the ones you could get may not even start or these 1 year guys could cause a 2-3 year guy to leave. I wouldn't risk trading out guys like that on the OL. I'd rather stick with the guys I have that have time left. I know it's not the "popular" opinion to some. But taking one guy is not an easy fix. It could cause more problems with everyone else. I added notes on Wanya Morris and he left before Pruitt was fired. Which is another issue. How can we say Dabo should take a OL transfer in December? Some of these guys entered in December and were picked up in 2 weeks or less. That shows me they already knew where they were going to go.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: So you want a OL from the portal EH?!
Oct 6, 2021, 9:06 AM
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Wanya Morris and Cain Madden are both guys that would likely be starting right now for Clemson
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Rock Defender [67]
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Re: So you want a OL from the portal EH?!
Oct 6, 2021, 9:22 AM
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easily
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Letterman [177]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: So you want a OL from the portal EH?!
Oct 6, 2021, 9:30 AM
[ in reply to Re: So you want a OL from the portal EH?! ] |
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I can't say Wanya Morris was not an option but he isn't starting for Oklahoma right now. He is a backup RT. Would he be worth replacing and possibly losing Walker Parks over? Because remember, if you take him...the guy behind him is now having to sit and won't be happy about it.
As for Cain Madden. A guy who was a walk-on at Marshall. A no-name recruit. He did entertain FSU but most felt like he was just playing with them. He is from Ohio and made the obvious choice to return closer to home and play for Notre Dame. Also only has 1 year eligible. Clemson has depth and players with multiple years left. If you take him from 1 year, you could lose a guy with 2 years left or have back-to-back 1-year guys with no consistency as a group.
So I gave both of those players a pass.
Message was edited by: mothetiger®
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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Re: So you want a OL from the portal EH?!
Oct 6, 2021, 11:08 AM
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I think you're putting too much weight on who some of these players were as recruits and what schools they were/weren't interested in.
Especially considering that OL is by far the most volatile in terms of recruiting rankings being predictive of long-term success.
Assuming there would be no interest on the part of a prospect because there wasn't much communication as a recruit seems pretty short-sighted.
Morris still has 3 years of eligibility, which is the same/similar to McFadden and we have generally rotated guys when we have been able. Being in Clemson's position, you also don't have to promise a kid a starting job to transfer in like other schools (cough cough FSU).
If taking Madden for a year while the younger guys can rep but not be relied upon before they are ready (Tate) costs you a guy like Rayburn/Trotter but you don't drop a game to NC State and have people nationally questioning your scheme and overall program, I make that trade all day.
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Varsity [100]
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Clemson Conqueror [11484]
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Re: So you want a OL from the portal EH?!
Oct 6, 2021, 9:50 AM
[ in reply to Re: So you want a OL from the portal EH?! ] |
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I'm pretty sure we backed off of Morris in high school for the same reasons that he ended up at Tennessee.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: So you want a OL from the portal EH?!
Oct 6, 2021, 9:41 AM
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Hey, nice work there. Actually did some thinking here. Impressive.
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Letterman [177]
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Re: So you want a OL from the portal EH?!
Oct 6, 2021, 10:04 AM
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I hope it helps fans like it helped me. It's extremely easy to make a list of guys over 6-3 and 300lbs.
It's not easy to go through all of them and find out the story. I mean even I had to look through 2-3 sites to see what happened. Many of the guys made decisions in December or May/June. So you basically have to be ready and know you need someone specific. Because many of them also picked their next school in 2 weeks or less.
Now I did another review of the top 25 schools. And the average amount of transfers is 8.24 players. And that's in the 2 deep. So while it's hard for me to say these guys would fit, other schools are clearly using the portal more than Clemson.
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National Champion [7954]
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you make it known that you need to fill an open OL spot
Oct 6, 2021, 10:03 AM
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because of an unanticipated loss and numbers being down at that position..... someone would have shown up at Clemson.... probably someone not on that list and probably better than anyone on that list
or here is an idea - stop throwing away scholarships at the bottom of the roster and have a total pool of OL closer to 20 rather than 15
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Letterman [177]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: you make it known that you need to fill an open OL spot
Oct 6, 2021, 10:14 AM
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I'm not sure I follow you on all of this.
So you are saying Clemson coaches should make it known they need an OL. But when did they "know" they needed an OL?
Because many of these guys were gone in less than 2 weeks in December and some were late like June-July late.
And again, many wanted to be starting LT which Clemson believes in McFadden. Or starting centers...which Rayburn seemed to me like he can handle the job at center. I have no idea why they felt the need to bench him for 4 games and move Bock out of position. That is a head scratcher.
You say "someone would have shown up at Clemson" and say someone not on this list and better than this list? I have no idea on this and how could anyone? This is a list taken from 247s top 150 transfer players in 2021. And I found no good fits. So if you know of someone else...please let me know. I'll look him up.
Clemson has 16 OL. That's 3 deep. I'm not sure 4 deep is better than 3 deep. They don't even rotate that much. I'd be surprised if any team rotates 4 guys consistently at each position. In today's world of free transfers, 20 guys seems much. No one wants to sit on the bench anymore it seems. Sad.
Would I like to see more than 2 guys taken in 2022...yes I would. Collin Sadler and Blake Miller look real real nice though.
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National Champion [7954]
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You make it known when you know. Like I said, it's probably
Oct 6, 2021, 10:34 AM
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not someone who was even in the portal - it's someone knowing that Clemson has an opening and the coaches are looking to take someone to have experienced #s. Someone would then enter the portal to come to a program like Clemson(or OSU, or BAMA, or UGA etc). So Clemson makes that known when Jackson Carmen announces he is leaving and you see where the chips fall. It doesn't mean McFadden doesn't still start at LT or maybe you do get a LT and McFadden moves somewhere else to start along the line that is better fit. Trust me there are plenty of good talented guys that would love to transfer and play for Clemson right now if an opportunity presented itself. And everyone of them currently knows they CAN'T. Actions have made it very clear.
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Orange Blooded [2336]
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Re: You make it known when you know. Like I said, it's probably
Oct 6, 2021, 1:25 PM
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I know that coaches can't contact players before they are in the portal, but are players allowed to check with a team in any way to judge interest?
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Letterman [177]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: You make it known when you know. Like I said, it's probably
Oct 6, 2021, 1:51 PM
[ in reply to You make it known when you know. Like I said, it's probably ] |
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I'm still confused where you "make it known." Or even make it known to players who aren't even in the portal.
Is there some sort of private server where coaches can secretly tell players on other teams they have a need?
I'm lost or maybe misunderstanding your idea altogether.
Once a player enters the portal teams can contact that player. And typically it seems a decision is made in only a few weeks. Some more some less. But it's quick in many cases. Also looks like it's in Dec or June/July. Both of which are not ideal. December is bad because I personally would just wait to see what I have in the spring. June/July is bad because you are basically last-minute replacing someone you had faith in and also last-minute plugging them into the system.
No LT worth taking is going to accept being a backup LT. Especially with 1/2 years left.
If you do take a LT and replace McFadden, he has this year and next year left. Does he stick around to go back to RT when he may want to be a LT? If he is ok to move to RT then does Walker Parks just sit the bench and enjoy or does he jump ship? Not as easy fix as it seems.
Also many people on Twitter and here say, "trust me plenty of good talent guys would love to come to Clemson."
My only request back would be to name the guys that are in the portal that fit that description. Because I named 17 of the top guys according to 247 and the majority of them would not come to Clemson or would struggle to start over what Clemson has.
Remember Clemson has played McFadden, Bockhorst, and Parks over 300 snaps so far. Dabo ain't replacing those guys with 1 year transfers. And 1 year transfers ain't sitting on the bench behind those guys either.
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National Champion [7954]
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Dude, Dabo is in front of a mic constantly. He is
Oct 6, 2021, 6:16 PM
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repeatedly asked by the media when someone leaves early or is injured like TP was whether he'll turn to the Transfer Portal. All he has to do is change his tune and say something like, "Yes we just lost a very experienced guy and we are low in #s at that position so we will absolutely look to the portal to see if we can find the right guy to replace that experience while still working with our younger guys to develop them into the great players we know they will be. We know there are a lot of great experienced players that would love to be at Clemson so we will absolutely be keeping an eye out for who is in or who enters the Transfer Portal in the near future"
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Valley Protector [1418]
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Orange Elite [5102]
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Re: So you want a OL from the portal EH?!
Oct 6, 2021, 10:04 AM
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If anything it can be used as a source to add depth at a position of need…McFadden is playing LT when we all know he should be on the right side. This would easily combat the lack of experience on the depth chart from guys behind. If McFaddden gets hurt we are absolutely screwed at that position.
It’s ok to fill a glaring need at all possible avenues. Just need to swallow your pride and face the fact that we haven’t been recruiting OL well…We don’t lack bodies…we lack talent and experience…Anyone who thinks that Brockhorst or Putnam are serviceable OL are living under a rock for god sakes.
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Dynasty Maker [3494]
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Re: So you want a OL from the portal EH?!
Oct 6, 2021, 12:30 PM
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If most players enter the portal due to lack of playing time... they're not looking to go somewhere to provide depth
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CU Guru [1523]
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PRECISELY!!
Oct 6, 2021, 12:48 PM
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Jeeze this idea of using the portal for depth guys is just so crazy weak.
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CU Guru [1251]
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No, I Much Prefer
Oct 6, 2021, 12:06 PM
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our current OL coach enter the transfer portal.
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Orange Blooded [2336]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: No, I Much Prefer
Oct 6, 2021, 1:39 PM
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I agree. I am not sure that personnel is the issue. We have been getting highly rated guys. I know that sometimes, someone is a bust but half of our O linemen were 4 or 5 star recruits. Are all of them busts?
I am not convinced that our coaching staff isn't contacting some of these guys, only to be told there isn't any interest on the part of the player. Would you want to come to a program at a position the team historically under performs at? We can't get 5 stars into the pros. Why would a kid with pro aspirations come to play under Caldwell?
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CU Guru [1523]
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Nice, we’ll-researched post. And you could add that
Oct 6, 2021, 12:45 PM
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any one of 5-6 of our current 4-star OL who put their name in the portal would be as coveted as any name on that list.
We have several guys that other teams would really want.
We’re not short of OL in either numbers or talent.
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Letterman [177]
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Re: Nice, we’ll-researched post. And you could add that
Oct 6, 2021, 1:41 PM
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I agree. It's a two-way street. It's easy to say "this guy would start or that guy would start."
But when you say that you are also risking Rayburn or Parks or McFadden leaving too.
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Tiger Titan [50644]
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Robbie Caldwell is a good coach
Oct 6, 2021, 3:16 PM
[ in reply to Nice, we’ll-researched post. And you could add that ] |
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No way we compete in the 6 playoffs & make it to 4 National Championships/2 natty’s too, without a very good OL coach. Remember that last drive in our last National Championship when our OL pushed Alabama around like they were a singing choir.
We are young on OL & have never recruited better than we are right now in talent, we just need experience & growth. It’s going to take more games to work through it. The great thing is, it’s not a lack of talent, we will get there.
It’s a process!
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Tiger Titan [47587]
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Have our coaches looked at the transfer portal
Oct 6, 2021, 1:56 PM
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to see who is available?
Based on Dabo's comments, the portal isn't something we have considered, and won't consider it unless we absolutely have to.
I think most people here are frustrated because they perceive an unwillingness by our coaching staff to look into transfers.
If they considered it, and didn't see any players who they feel can help us, we can live with that. But to suck on offense after not even considering the portal seems short-sighted.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Have our coaches looked at the transfer portal
Oct 6, 2021, 2:45 PM
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Even I think that staff has researched it and there has likely been some big arguments made about it... and I am pro staying out for the most part.
But like we often comes back to resources. Where do you spend staff time? How much time is spent combing the portal vs finding HS kids. Would we be in a position where we would miss on an under-recruited kid like Isaiah Simmons because we were looking at transfers?
We would not have brought in a QB in the past 6-10 years because there was no need. Likely no need moving forward. Generally our recruits are better than those in the portal. That being said, the "portal" isnt going to fix anything this year and all it happens to be is a distraction. It wasn't a need over the summer (besides a QB depth item and that isn't our issue).
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Starter [264]
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Re: Have our coaches looked at the transfer portal
Oct 6, 2021, 9:25 PM
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There are players all over the country that would love the opportunity to transfer to Clemson with a legit chance to start. There are pretty credible sources that confirmed Auburn RB Tank Bigsby was interested in transferring to Clemson but we said we were full at RB. If Clemson made it known they were in the market via the Portal for a starter at any position there would be players reaching out to gauge our interest in them.
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Paw Master [17108]
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