Re: Military bases named after traitors

Yes Catahoula! Legally the men who fought for the South were traitors as the Union prevailed. The winners always control the historical narrative. Soldiers almost universally fight for their native land. During the 1860's, there was more allegiance to one's state than to the nation, hence Southerners fought for the South and Northerners fought for the North. Again Birmingham you are technically correct that the Confederates were traitors. However, you are harsher towards these men than the leniency shown by the North. After World War II, various Germans were tried and executed for their war crimes. Yet, following the Civil War, not one Confederate including the generals was charged with treason. I don't think these men were felt to be murderers anymore than the Yankee troops were. Men in war kill each other because they have to. I don't think you'll find many soldiers in any war who stay and fight and die for a cause or a flag. Men don't flee from conflict, because they stay, fight and die for their brothers in arms. The Southern men who died and killed men from the North, I think were as a whole noble men, honorable men, who were fighting an ignoble cause. If you are honest, I think you would have to concede that if you-yourself had been of fighting age during the Civi War and were raised in the South you would have gone to war as a Confederate provided you were white. You would have been a murderous traitor I suppose? We celebrate every July 4th our decision to break away from Great Britain. We consider the men who fought the Crown as great patriots. Had the British won, these men that we venerate would have been considered traitors and murderers. War is always complicated.

rons1®

Orange Phenom [15042]

TigerPulse: 100%

Posts: 7476

Joined: 2015

Dec 29, 2020, 9:17 AM

BirminghamTiger said:

Donald Trump has said that football players who kneel during the National Anthem are being disrespectful to our troops. He says those SOB's should be fired and should leave. But why is it not disrespectful to our troops for white Americans to honor men and display symbols of an American insurrection that killed over 300,000 of these same troops? Please explain.

Who knows what's in Trump's mind? I'm not sure why a native of NY is hung up on changing the names of these bases. His opposition for whatever reason will be overridden by Congress.I will take the players at face value that they intend no disrespect to the troops.I do not think they should leave the country.It's up to the owners whether or not to fire them. I personally would not.

I can understand why a black person could be offended by someone displaying the Confederate flag. I seriously doubt a Northern white soldier is hurt over the same display.I don't feel the need to own or display a Confederate flag, but believe in the freedom of others to do so, even if others find it offensive. I believe in the players having the right to kneel during the anthem. While others may not find that offensive, I personally do. I no longer watch the NFL.

My point is, you have called the men who fought and died for the Confederacy, murderers and traitors. The term traitor is technically accurate, but overly harsh in my opinion. Referring to these men as murderers is not accurate in my view. I don't view the average British, Mexican,Native American, German, Japanese,Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese, Cuban, Panamanian or Iraqi soldier who killed American troops as a murderer. They had no choice in their birth origin, nor little choice in whether to fight or not.

The same is true for most of the Confederate soldiers. There was near total conscription of these men. My allegiance in 2020 is primarily to the USA and then SC. In 1861, that would not have been my view.Lee would have fought for the Union if VA had not seceded, an action he did not favor. It was a different time. You judge the actions of the men of the South through the prism of 2020.

I can't answer why Trump wants to fall on his sword over this issue. However, with all the real problems that exist in the country, I think our legislators would have higher priority issues to focus on.

However, this is not the end. Many of our forefathers owned slaves. Some owned several hundred. I will not be ok with cancelling Washington, Jefferson and the other 10 US Presidents who owned slaves. Grant himself oversaw his father-in-law's slaves and owned a slave before freeing that individual in 1859. In 2020, slavery is correctly viewed as an abomination. It has always been an abomination, but it's not fair in my opinion to judge others from our current day perch.

I also think we should judge someone on the totality of their life. I think Dr Martin Luther King is a hero. I think he was very brave. I think he accomplished an incredible amount in such a short life. I think he deserves the recognition of being honored with a national holiday. However, he was a serial adulterer despite being a Baptist minister. History is complicated. Viewing the actions of the Southern men of the 1860's as traitors and murderers is just simplistic in my opinion. I respect your opinion. I just disagree.

flag link

military_tech

thumb_down

thumb_up

Military bases named after traitors