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Re: Immortal jelly fish
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Feb 19, 2025, 11:24 AM
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Interesting read.
I did some further reading and sorted out some stuff that was unclear to me at start. Apparently, the jellyfish can die, so it's not immortal in the traditional sense.
But it can restart its clock and return to its youth, its polyp form, if its adult form is killed. Theoretically that could lead to infinite regeneration, which raises a lot of questions.
Is it really 'dead' to start with, or is there some kernel of life still there after its apparent death, to lead to its regeneration? Someone can be clinically dead by our definitions, but not yet dead-dead in every sense.
It reminds me of a seed, which is certainly not alive until one adds water to it. Even in the jellyfish's dead body there must be something that can re-initiate life, even months later.
A tree dies but its seed(s) might live on, so in that sense a tree is immortal too.
But what is the life force behind it all? So much still to learn.
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Re: Immortal jelly fish
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Feb 19, 2025, 12:08 PM
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“ But what is the life force behind it all?”
It sounds like the jelly fish has the ability as a defense mechanism to basically start over. Crazy stuff and yes this was my question as well.
Why does this creature alone have this ability?
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Re: Immortal jelly fish
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Feb 19, 2025, 2:04 PM
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>Why does this creature alone have this ability?
Well, that's kind of what I'm getting at. It depends on one's definition of life.
This jellyfish can live forever, even after its adult form is killed, though its infant form.
But the same is true of a tree though its seeds. And man is exactly the same, through DNA.
So my question would be, does life stop at the 'individual?' Or is your life essence, or mine, or a tree's, or a jellyfish's, passed on from generation to generation, with each temporary body just holding that life force till it moves on to a fresh physical body?
Now we're getting to reincarnation. Deep.
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Re: Immortal jelly fish
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Feb 19, 2025, 2:10 PM
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There have been a couple of movies that tinkered with that idea. In the Exorcist the demon jumps from body to body, and that's how the priest eventually stops it, by taking the demon and then jumping out of a window to kill himself before the demon can find a new host.
Actually, in the Exorcist series the Demon was Pazuzu, who was a good Assyrian/Babylonian god of harvest and wind, but oh well. Fiction, you know.
Pazuzu
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There was another movie like that where the protagonist did the same thing, but the demon escaped in a cat, rather than a person. I'd have to look it up...can't remember the name.
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Re: Immortal jelly fish
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Feb 19, 2025, 2:15 PM
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Found it. Not an outstanding movie, but average-to-good. Good enough for me to remember it 25 years later.
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Re: Immortal jelly fish
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Feb 19, 2025, 4:56 PM
[ in reply to Re: Immortal jelly fish ] |
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“This jellyfish can live forever, even after its adult form is killed, though its infant form.
But the same is true of a tree though its seeds. And man is exactly the same, through DNA.”
I see what you are saying but there do seem to be some differences. The jelly fish does not completely die off and regenerates on its on. I can’t do that with my DNA and a tree can’t do that with its seeds.
In others words those things require some help. I would see them as more akin to a man reproducing with a woman, which is pretty much the same as a plant dropping seeds that grow. And they require sunlight and water, or they don’t.
The jelly fish never dies, just shreds its adult body and starts over.
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Re: Immortal jelly fish
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Feb 19, 2025, 8:44 PM
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>The jelly fish never dies, just shreds its adult body and starts over.
Yes, that is an important distinction. I was trying to think of any other life form that does that but I'm drawing a blank. Snakes shedding their skins come to mind, or lizards regrowing tails, but that's just minor stuff and not regrowing the whole body, organs and all.
Caterpillars are pretty wild when they make their organ soup in the chrysalis phase, but they don't actually die then, they just re-scramble their organs into butterfly form.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK_iZZ4Bx2o
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Re: Immortal jelly fish
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Feb 19, 2025, 8:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: Immortal jelly fish ] |
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Throwing one onto the beach should define immortality.
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Re: Immortal jelly fish
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Feb 19, 2025, 9:44 PM
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That’s a pretty good point. I wonder if humans will ever be able to fully adapt to their environment and become immortal absent of being murdered or the victim of nature. Some people say humans with proper care and nutrition could live well into their hundreds.
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Re: Immortal jelly fish
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Feb 20, 2025, 1:50 AM
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Soon we'd be like China, limiting births and ending up with only boys. Then we'd see if there is anything to this gender spectrum thing. China doesn't think so: they're having to import bi-pedal primates of one side of a binary population. Girls, to you and me. And that's not as easy as it used to be; the non maga ones vowed to never again, well, you know.
See what you get into with this life and death stuff?
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Re: Immortal jelly fish
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Feb 20, 2025, 11:17 AM
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There would be no "we". Human beings know they can feel better and live longer as it is, yet the obesity rate is around 40%, with around 75% of us being considered overweight in America according to the CDC. Whatever anti aging solution science comes up with would have to go along with proper nutrition and exercise I imagine.
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Re: Immortal jelly fish
Feb 20, 2025, 10:40 PM
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There might be something to the eat right and walk a bit idea. As you say, a ton of health can be gained via free means.
Different subject, but somewhat related. There is a lot of angst and political posturing about the cost of health care, what Medicare can keep paying for, same with Medicaid, whether health care is a right, etc. Fine. But in terms of how to deliver care to those who can afford it the least, it seems that the vast majority of benefit is in the primary care, vaccines and antibiotics. And those are relatively cheap. Hold that thought.
Among the programs we all would agree are warranted, EBT might be one of the least efficient. Cards are sold on the black market, the goods are delivered at retail prices, and the recipients of them tend to be among the least healthy. As far back as the 80's, several think tanks concluded that if the govt bought staples from farmers, put them in grocery store displays to be given away free (rent the space), after accounting for a large misuse (people getting the govt stuff when they didnt need to), more food would go to more people at way less cost than the EBT program. IE, like health, 80% of the benefit is in the first 20% of the almost free effort. So, directly give away that 20%. Walk up and take the staples you need. Steak, you buy.
Health care seems to have that same 80/20 rule. An annual checkup, vaccines, sick visits and antibiotics are cheap, amd those things do 80% of the lifting. Where the line is, I dont know, and we dont like drawing those lines, but in a world of scarcity, something like 'amoxicillin yes, cancer treatment no' seems a reasonable approach to what is free. Seems we could find a way to give away that 20% without building and paying for the massive govt involvement we now have.
The political argument then comes in telling a young family they cant get free leukemia treatment. I get it. Is all health care a right in a world where the mortality rate is 100%? That is a different subject. I'm just thinking about how to live in the 80/20 world without going broke.
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Re: Immortal jelly fish
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Feb 21, 2025, 12:01 PM
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Yes definitely a different subject but I would agree there is a lot of grey area between what we owe each other as human beings and what someone needs to go out and work for on their own. Jesus seemed to be in the give all without regard category. Which is why I get a good chuckle when I hear someone I know that believes the bible is god's word but yet also wants to close our country to people fleeing violence and poverty. Not saying I agree with Jesus attitude because I don't. I think Jesus was a flawed human being just like you and me. For example...
"Give him your coat also"
Terrible idea in my opinion, and doesn't apply in a modern day American context. No excuse in this country to be jobless, for an extended period of time that is, and even worse committing crimes to support yourself. That seems to be the kind of person that Jesus was talking about no?
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Re: Immortal jelly fish
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Feb 21, 2025, 4:42 PM
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I think we can all agree that a thing that does not exist cannot be given. A farmer with 5 acres cannot feed all the poor in town. If he has a barn with a couple year's worth stored, and someone takes it to feed the poor, all that is accomplished is delaying "broke" for a year or so.
That is where we almost are. With our current level of debt, and with the interest on that debt growing faster than we can pay it, we are looking broke in the face, and all the philosophizing about right to food and medicine will prove to be the empty words that they are.
It seems that there are three things we have to manage: (1) if someone has to buy something for you, that thing is not a right: (2) compassion never fed anyone: (3) compassion should be a motivating force. The only way to reconcile all three is some acknowledgement of what is reasonably available, and then how to prioritize who gets the scarce resources, because there will never be enough. We have ignored this into near bankruptcy.
If that is controversial, we just havent hit reality yet. It'll get here.
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