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Ring of Honor [22109]
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Imagine this scenario.
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Nov 18, 2024, 7:16 AM
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Imagine if I set the company sales record two years in a row, five years ago, and earned one of the highest salaries in the industry because of it. But then, the market changed—new competitors emerged, customer needs evolved, and technology shifted the game. Instead of adapting, I stuck to the same strategies that worked in the past, even as my numbers steadily declined. How long would I keep my job at that company? How long would I be exempt from criticism, especially with my massive paycheck tied to producing results? At some point, past success only buys you so much time if you’re not evolving with the times.
I think this is what I am trying to say.
I don't know the answer because no one will (or should) fire our "Bear Byrant". But it is frustrating to see the decline. Is this allowed?
Go Tigers!
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TigerNet Legend [146444]
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Think about it this way
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Nov 18, 2024, 7:33 AM
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Over that same career you have closed, on average, 80% of your deals, this year you are closing 80% of your deals. And since 2019, the past 5 years, you are #6 overall in the entire country in deal closing percentage, and #3 in total deals closed. All while navigating the changes you illustrated. Lastly, the income generated by your sales has brought in enough money to help other company divisions stay afloat and become competitive. All of this while representing the company as a true professional, not a blemish on your employee record from HR. I’d say that you are earning every penny.
https://www.teamrankings.com/ncf/trends/win_trends/?range=yearly_since_2019
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Game Day Hero [4204]
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Game. Set. Match. +1.
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Nov 18, 2024, 7:39 AM
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Nm
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Clemson Conqueror [11912]
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Re: Think about it this way
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Nov 18, 2024, 7:45 AM
[ in reply to Think about it this way ] |
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Facts! Great viewpoint Deputy Mod
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Athletic Dir [1192]
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Re: Think about it this way
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Nov 18, 2024, 7:54 AM
[ in reply to Think about it this way ] |
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Also don’t forget the likely outcome that competing companies in this industry would scoop said person up immediately to capture his clients and sales
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Ultimate Tiger [33089]
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Rival Killer [2916]
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If you're closing on 80% of your deals while getting elite money,
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Nov 18, 2024, 12:20 PM
[ in reply to Think about it this way ] |
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You don't deserve all of that money, in any business.
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Athletic Dir [1192]
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Re: If you're closing on 80% of your deals while getting elite money,
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Nov 18, 2024, 1:17 PM
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Wouldn’t it depend on the industry standard?
I happen to have it on good authority that only half (50%) of these Sales Reps close their deals on a weekly, monthly, and annual basis
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Rival Killer [2916]
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Fir $11 million annually plus perks?***
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Nov 18, 2024, 2:15 PM
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CU Guru [1522]
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Re: If you're closing on 80% of your deals while getting elite money,
Nov 21, 2024, 11:01 AM
[ in reply to Re: If you're closing on 80% of your deals while getting elite money, ] |
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I think it is even lower than that. I make on average just two new sales per year. The rest are inside sales that are essentially re-order. I sell big dollar stuff (in the millions). I would wager that I sell or perhaps 2-3% of my contacts and my company is thrilled with me.
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Orange Beast [6521]
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Re: If you're closing on 80% of your deals while getting elite money,
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Nov 19, 2024, 8:20 AM
[ in reply to If you're closing on 80% of your deals while getting elite money, ] |
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Any business? If I am a major league baseball player getting a hit 80% of the time I think I deserve big money in todays world. Depends on the business.
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Ring of Honor [22899]
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Ring of Honor [21950]
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This sounds great until
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Nov 18, 2024, 12:31 PM
[ in reply to Think about it this way ] |
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you're brought in front of the board and asked why you've consistently dropped from #1 in the country to #6 the last 5 years and forecasts are all agreeing the drop will continue while you're making more money than anyone else in your industry.
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TigerNet Legend [146444]
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He is not making more money than anyone in his industry.***
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Nov 18, 2024, 1:31 PM
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Ring of Honor [21950]
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Ok second***
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Nov 18, 2024, 1:38 PM
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geez
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TigerNet Legend [146444]
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And he is 3rd in total wins during the 5 year decline
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Nov 18, 2024, 1:41 PM
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Referenced by the OP. Who on the list attached should he be making less than? I’m not trying to be difficult, or a smart behind, it’s a serious question.
https://sportsdata.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/football/coach
Message was edited by: Francis Marion®
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Ring of Honor [21950]
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And over the last 3 seasons he's 7th
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Nov 18, 2024, 2:09 PM
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I'm sure if you go back far enough towards 2015 you can make up all kinds of stats that he leads in or is top 5 in. But no matter how you slice it Dabo Swinney is trending DOWN
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TigerNet Legend [146444]
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I didnt pick the timeline.
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Nov 18, 2024, 2:15 PM
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I’m answering the OP’s timetable.
With that said, let’s say he’s 7th, who on the list do you prefer to have and/or pay more?
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Rival Killer [2635]
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I believe he's looking for the next Tommy West***
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Nov 18, 2024, 2:29 PM
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Ring of Honor [21950]
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Not saying I prefer anyone over Dabo
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Nov 18, 2024, 2:49 PM
[ in reply to I didnt pick the timeline. ] |
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I prefer to Dabo begin playing modern college football before the program is ridden into the dirt.
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Heisman Winner [80964]
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The game of college football is about to undergo another seismic shift, when the
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Nov 20, 2024, 1:27 PM
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schools are finally allowed to pay players directly. That is set to happen 10/18/2025. Dabo has said, on more than one occasion, that Clemson will be in a much better position once that happens.
Now, you can take that with however many grains of salt you want, but EYE take it to mean, Clemson will have a much more equal pot of money to play with once that happens, vs what we have now relative to NIL.
I believe you will begin to see these huge NIL deals go away, once direct pay is implemented. It only makes sense that it would. NIL is a stopgap. Sure, there will still be some endorsement deals, but nothing like what is happening right now.
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Orange Phenom [14711]
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Re: The game of college football is about to undergo another seismic shift, when the
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Nov 21, 2024, 7:58 AM
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That's what I'm counting on.
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Ring of Honor [21950]
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We shall see but I don't see how it will have a significant impact
Nov 21, 2024, 8:35 AM
[ in reply to The game of college football is about to undergo another seismic shift, when the ] |
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The revenue sharing will not replace NIL. It will be in addition to NIL. Those who have an advantage via NIL will continue to have that advantage and Dabo's portal philosophy and "No NIL until you get here" philosophy will remain. But we shall see.
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TigerNet Legend [146444]
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We shall see
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Nov 21, 2024, 9:30 AM
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Is the attitude we all should have. There are so many variables in play right now, it’s nearly impossible to pinpoint a single factor (or pair of factors) that have contributed to us being where we are now. With that said, be wary of anyone who oversimplifies a problem and claims to know the answer without having all of the information. So we can trust those who have all the information, are paid handsomely because of their knowledge/results, and have historically done great things in their field, or we can get riled up by posters on a Internet forum with none of those qualifications. This doesn’t mean the professional is always right and the poster is always wrong, but if I am forced to bet, my money is on the professional.
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Ring of Honor [21950]
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The problem is we have been
Nov 21, 2024, 9:37 AM
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"We shall see"ing for 4 years now.
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TigerNet Legend [146444]
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We shall see are your words.
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Nov 21, 2024, 9:40 AM
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And the counter argument to the 4 year decline argument is we’ve won the ACC Championship twice in that same 4 years. Let’s keep “decline” in perspective.
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Paw Master [17561]
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Re: We shall see are your words.
Nov 21, 2024, 10:50 AM
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They hate the “ESPN narrative” but fall for it hook, line, and sinker.
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Ring of Honor [21950]
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Winning the ACC championship
Nov 21, 2024, 12:31 PM
[ in reply to We shall see are your words. ] |
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isn't some monumental task. Failing to do so is a failure of a season.
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TigerNet Legend [146444]
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I dont think there is one ACC football coach or AD that would agree
Nov 21, 2024, 12:39 PM
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with any of that statement, but all of these thoughts are just our opinions.
Message was edited by: Francis Marion®
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Ring of Honor [21950]
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Considering the rest of the ACC outside of FSU or Miami
Nov 21, 2024, 12:52 PM
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Don't care in the slightest about playing major college football, I imagine you're right.
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Orange Blooded [2330]
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Re: And over the last 3 seasons he's 7th
Nov 21, 2024, 7:09 AM
[ in reply to And over the last 3 seasons he's 7th ] |
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Trending down by who's metrics? Talking heads that say anything to get you to watch or click on a link so they make money?
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Ring of Honor [21950]
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By fact's and reality's metrics.
Nov 21, 2024, 8:41 AM
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Clemson Win % ranks
Since 2015 - 3rd
Since 2016 - 3rd
since 2017 - 4th
since 2018 - 4th
since 2019 - 6th
since 2020 - 8th
since 2021 - 8th
since 2022 - 14th
since 2023 - T17th
2024 - T14th
You'd have to be blind to not know we're on a downward trajectory
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [98659]
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You'd still be making a ton of money for your company.
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Nov 18, 2024, 2:27 PM
[ in reply to This sounds great until ] |
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They'd be OK with you especially if they knew you were doing all that could be done.
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Clemson Conqueror [11264]
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Tiger Spirit [9575]
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Ring of Honor [22109]
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ok.
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Nov 18, 2024, 11:22 PM
[ in reply to Think about it this way ] |
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Trust is earned, not blind. Since 2018, Clemson’s been sliding—2023 ended 9-4, the worst since 2010. Recruiting isn’t what it was, and Dabo’s $11 million paycheck doesn’t excuse ignoring the transfer portal while others adapt. Trusting the staff is one thing, but pretending there aren’t problems is another.
By the way, I worked in the high-tech sales industry in Silicon Valley in my youth. I was a top earner. I guess I see it differently than you. A Dabo in our industry would have probably moved up and not had the scrutiny of a direct salesperson. But the field was results-driven and not from what you did five years ago, but it's hard to compare.
If we lose to the chickens, let's readdress this post. If not, let's readdress this post.
I hope for the ladder.
Go Tigers.
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110%er [3758]
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Re: ok.
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Nov 19, 2024, 6:02 PM
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Apologies in advance, but I just couldn't let this one lie . . . .
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Game Changer [1849]
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Re: Think about it this way
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Nov 18, 2024, 11:29 PM
[ in reply to Think about it this way ] |
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If you are in sales, you are probably on commission. And if you are closing a lot of sales (80%), but they are small sales, you will be still gainfully employed but will be making considerably less money than a few years back when you were closing some big deals.
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Gridiron Giant [16050]
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Clemson Sports Icon [55624]
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Re: Think about it this way
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Nov 19, 2024, 9:19 AM
[ in reply to Think about it this way ] |
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Football pays the bills for all schools so to try and make the argument that Dabo's somehow responsible for the success of all the other sports is wrong. Y'all try so hard to build Dabo into a God that can do no wrong.
The problem with your stats is, imo you're not comparing apples. Dabo's built his stats up by playing cupcakes. Huge difference. Statistically speaking, look at all the great stats that Brad has accomplished.
No denying that Dabo had a great 6 year run. No denying that 6 year run helped Clemson's visibility.
So I have to agree with PBT assessment. Time will tell.
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Top TigerNet [30315]
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Couldn't tell where you were going with this until I read the first sentence.***
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Nov 18, 2024, 12:25 PM
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Athletic Dir [1122]
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Re: Imagine this scenario.
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Nov 18, 2024, 12:28 PM
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Except in the business world you’re an “at will” employee, technically a free agent every day if you so choose. In the coaching world your value is always set based on accomplishments up til now and in comparison to similar peers, and as such there are bilateral buyouts to promote stability in the position
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Orange Beast [6321]
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Wow a solid one two punch
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Nov 18, 2024, 12:29 PM
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by PCT and FM! Far better than any punches that landed in Paul vs Tyson, but I digress.
Great comparisons and thought provoking!
Super sales guy also has responsibility for his sales team - showing them the ropes so they too can surpass their personal best quarters and years and bring home the bacon.
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Starter [275]
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Re: Imagine this scenario.
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Nov 18, 2024, 12:41 PM
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There is also a situation in statistical process control where you have what is called “tampering”. The over reaction to a trend can cause disruption to a process stability. For your example, adapting to new sales techniques may get you more clients but could allow you to lose others because they don’t understand or agree with your technique. Also, new techniques could also be views as unethical and disloyal to current customer base. For example, FSU in 2024.
See how that logic could be viewed differently?
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Valley Protector [1445]
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Re: Imagine this scenario.
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Nov 18, 2024, 1:40 PM
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Frustration is allowed. Ranting about dumb ideas that aren't going to solve the problem is not.
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Playmaker [394]
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Re: Imagine this scenario.
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Nov 18, 2024, 1:41 PM
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I’m in Sales and my company(like most), don’t give a shat about what I did 5 years ago. It’s all about what have you done for me lately. If I didn’t change w the times and my production went down i would be fired and so should dabo.
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TigerNet Legend [146444]
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You would be fired from your job for being in the top 3
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Nov 18, 2024, 1:44 PM
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of all sales in your industry nationwide?
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Ring of Honor [22899]
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Re: Imagine this scenario.
Nov 20, 2024, 1:55 PM
[ in reply to Re: Imagine this scenario. ] |
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Good thing nobody cares about what you think 😌
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Clemson Conqueror [12071]
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Re: Imagine this scenario.
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Nov 18, 2024, 1:51 PM
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Dabo will figure it out, but the entire environment is a work in progress. I like what he is doing and believe some tweaking of things will happen.
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Ring of Honor [22109]
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I think this is all are hoping will happen.***
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Nov 18, 2024, 11:17 PM
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Tiger Titan [47592]
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How do you know he will figure it out?
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Nov 19, 2024, 8:54 AM
[ in reply to Re: Imagine this scenario. ] |
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He hasn’t figured it out in the last four years.
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TigerNet Legend [146444]
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Dabo has won 2 ACC Championships in the past 4 years
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Nov 19, 2024, 7:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: Imagine this scenario. ] |
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Think about that, a coach who is being blamed for our football program’s decline over the past 4 years, has won the conference championship twice in that same span.
Message was edited by: Francis Marion®
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [98659]
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Imagine your entire O-line is screwed up because of injuries.***
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Nov 18, 2024, 2:24 PM
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Asst Coach [897]
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Dabo is the rainmaker.
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Nov 18, 2024, 2:37 PM
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The “deals” Dabo has closed are > all of our other coaches combined.
The amount of revenue one person has helped spear head cannot be missed here.
The amount of new students, fans, jobs etc that Dabo has helped to create is INSANE.
And on top of that, who on earth could we get to help replace or duplicate?
He’s not perfect but he has been (objectively) the greatest hire Clemson has ever made.
Yes, I wish we had a few more dogs. No, I don’t agree with everything he’s done… but dang it if I thought we could find anyone better.
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Walk-On [77]
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Re: Imagine this scenario.
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Nov 18, 2024, 3:02 PM
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It seems to me that we are mostly missing on 5* offensive lineman linemen that we obviously need.
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Hall of Famer [8119]
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Re: Imagine this scenario.
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Nov 18, 2024, 5:46 PM
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It’s a tricky situation. I work for a company once who had an older executive who did nothing. And I mean literally nothing, While drawing a six figure salary. I was curious and I asked another manager what the old executive did, he said oh he does nothing , but 25 years ago, he worked with the owner and they built this company from a startup into a $50million business, and he can never be fired . Sometimes you just have enough goodwill in the bank to carry for a while. Dabo will never be fired, but if the program continues to decline he probably will step away.
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Clemson Icon [27695]
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Re: Imagine this scenario.
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Nov 18, 2024, 6:07 PM
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I was going to say something similar. The scenario in the original post happens every day in the business world.
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Orange Blooded [2379]
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Re: Imagine this scenario.
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Nov 19, 2024, 12:58 AM
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Would any salesman, even if in the bottom 10% be fired if the buyout was $60M dollars....
Yeah I didn't think so.....
Dabos going nowhere unless he chooses
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Clemson Icon [27787]
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Or, this scenario...
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Nov 19, 2024, 8:49 AM
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Note: Every analogy, including the one I'm ab out to make, breaks down if you take it far enough.
Imagine I'm in a company with 133 salesmen, including me.
Twice in the past 10 years I have been the top salesman in the company. For 6 straight years I was in the top 4. But, for the past 3 years I have dropped into the 10-15 range.
My boss calls me into his office and says, "You used to be the top salesman here. But, you haven't been the very best salesman in the country for the past 5 years. Sure, you're in the top 10. Sure, over the past 10 years you have been the overall top salesman. But, that doesn't matter. Once you become the top salesman, you have to stay there. You're fired."
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Tiger Titan [47592]
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In your example, you would be told that your current performance trend
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Nov 19, 2024, 8:58 AM
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is concerning.
Do you think Dabo has been told that his performance over the last few years is not up to our standard at Clemson?
Because I don’t.
And I don’t think that many fans here want Dabo to be critiqued that way. To them, he has accomplished so much and the idea that anyone - the AD, BOT, or fans - would believe or state that his performance has fallen short of expectations is not allowed.
Some here are too scared of making him mad and him leaving.
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Clemson Icon [27695]
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Re: In your example, you would be told that your current performance trend
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Nov 19, 2024, 6:20 PM
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Not up to “our standard at Clemson”.
So you set the standards for Clemson football now? Give me a break.
Dabo and the administration are fully aware of the performance of the football team, recently and during Dabo’s tenure in total. And yes, both matter. Anyone who thinks performance isn’t discussed between Dabo and the administration is who really has their heads in the sand. This is their careers and livelihoods. It’s what they live and breathe every day. Dabo will leave when either he or the administration is ready and nothing you, or I, or some radio caller from Spartanburg, or any other fan is going to influence that. No one is happy with recent performance but some of us are able to accept reality and understand it is a game. And no one can win them all. But I know, that doesn’t fit your agenda so carry on.
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Rival Killer [2916]
TigerPulse: 72%
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No, Dabo did that when he said "the best is the standard"
Nov 20, 2024, 1:59 PM
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The program is nowhere near that right now.
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TigerNet Legend [146444]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2010
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Best is the standard
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Nov 21, 2024, 7:03 AM
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“I mean we started that when I got the job,” Swinney said. “A lot of people, especially with the success that we’ve had over the last 12 years or so, people think that it means the best. That’s not what it means.” It’s about being our best, your best. Best is the standard is about being and doing your best in everything that you do. That’s an inward focus, and I think that’s where a lot of people, they, as our program has developed, they take that the wrong way. It’s never been about being the best.”
Swinney explained that the difference is significant. Focusing on being the best leads one to compare himself to things that are on the outside. Focusing on being the best you can be results in a different sense of focus.”
https://www.on3.com/college/clemson-tigers/news/dabo-swinney-breaks-down-the-meaning-of-best-is-the-standard-at-clemson/#
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Clemson Icon [27695]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2014
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Re: Best is the standard
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Nov 22, 2024, 10:38 AM
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The literal interpretation fits better with the Dabo downers’ agenda.
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Tiger Titan [47592]
TigerPulse: 77%
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Bingo.***
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Nov 19, 2024, 8:50 AM
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Solid Orange [1301]
TigerPulse: 74%
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Re: Imagine this scenario.
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Nov 19, 2024, 8:58 AM
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The real shame is the scenario where a poultry farmer called himself a Clemson fan!
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Orange Blooded [2330]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Re: Imagine this scenario.
Nov 19, 2024, 10:19 PM
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Bleh. Didn't even read most of your novel. The sad part is if we win out and look good you will praise coach Swinney as much as you most likely tore him down on this post.
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Dynasty Maker [3196]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I'm trying (and failing) to imagine a scenario
2
Nov 20, 2024, 12:54 PM
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where Clemson improves on Dabo Swinney.
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Tiger Titan [47592]
TigerPulse: 77%
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You are part of the problem.***
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Nov 21, 2024, 10:55 AM
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Dynasty Maker [3196]
TigerPulse: 100%
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You're quick to put this into all/nothing terms.
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Nov 21, 2024, 2:47 PM
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And of course, it's easy to come up with innumerable imagined solutions to whatever problems you're camping on this week.
Go find me a better solution (actual, not imagined) to all of those problems than Dabo Swinney, I'm all ears.
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Clemson Icon [27695]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: You're quick to put this into all/nothing terms.
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Nov 22, 2024, 10:41 AM
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Hope you like bluegill fishing cause you’re not going to get anything but crickets.
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Paw Master [17561]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Imagine this scenario.
Nov 21, 2024, 7:33 AM
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Your standards are retarded and clueless about colllege football. Clemson has the 4th longest active streak of winning seasons in college football and 5th longest bowl game streak. We’re the 2nd winningest team in the last decade. It’s not that Dabo is no longer one of the best. It’s that you still fail to grasp how insane what he accomplished from 2015-2020 was and are distorting everything else through that prism.
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Head Coach [948]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Imagine this scenario.
Nov 21, 2024, 9:11 AM
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Here is what your argument does lot take into effect:
What if your product is not as compelling relative to competitors as it once was—People on this board think Clemson has the same resources available to it in the NIL world as Texas, TAMU, Ohio State, UGA or even SMU. That is laughable.
Compensation is market based- schools are willing to pay James Franklin and Mike Norvell tons of money to never have the success of Dabo. Dabo could have also left many times and made more money. If Dabo averages 9.5 wins per year over the next ten years, he won’t be asked to step down or take a pay cut.
You also don’t have message board posters thinking they know how your business works because they follow the team or financially support the team. Fortunately the most successful Coach in the history of our program, who is still a top performing coach in a down year, works at the pleasure of the AD, the President of the University and the BOT, not Tigernet.
The portal angst should go away next year because we likely have to use it to fill out the roster. Then the debate will be why we took some RS Freshman from NC Sate who barely saw the field last year instead of who ever flashy portal player went to the highest bidder.
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Standout [237]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Re: Imagine this scenario.
Nov 21, 2024, 12:26 PM
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Perspective
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All-Conference [429]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Re: Imagine this scenario.
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Nov 21, 2024, 12:43 PM
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Dabo has a ton of equity and it’s no where near used up.
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