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Replies: 70
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MVP [519]
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Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
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Jan 14, 2024, 8:57 AM
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They didn’t put their hands on their hearts during the National Anthem yesterday against BC. The National Anthem was written to honor our military and our flag. For goodness sakes, IT WAS MILITARY APPRECIATION DAY! Is Clemson going woke? A week or so I posted about how much I liked Schiefflen and how much he hustled and gave 100%. Today, I think a lot less of him and the others standing next to him.
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Associate AD [1003]
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
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Jan 14, 2024, 9:04 AM
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I normally place my hand over my heart for the National Anthem. However, I still remember my dad, who served in WW2 taught me to stand at attention during the Anthem. Pledge of Allegiance, yes, definitely hand over heart. National Anthem can be discussed. As long as he didn't sit down or take a knee, I don't hold it against him.
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Asst Coach [880]
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
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Jan 14, 2024, 9:07 AM
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Same here. Always did it for Pledge of Allegiance. Don’t remember it being the thing to do for the National Anthem when I was younger. Hands behind the back and at attention.
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Orange Blooded [2243]
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
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Jan 14, 2024, 9:31 AM
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Same here. Always did it for Pledge of Allegiance. Don’t remember it being the thing to do for the National Anthem when I was younger. Hands behind the back and at attention.
I don’t know what branch of the service you were in, but I don’t know how to Stand at Attention with your hands behind your back!!
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Orange Blooded [2531]
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
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Jan 14, 2024, 9:56 AM
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At ease disease,
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Asst Coach [880]
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Campus Hero [13151]
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
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Jan 14, 2024, 10:36 AM
[ in reply to Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players ] |
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Same here. For the Pledge of Allegiance but just hands down by my side when singing the Anthem. Good grief seems like some just hunt for stuff to be triggered over.
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CU Medallion [19532]
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Associate AD [1039]
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
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Jan 14, 2024, 9:21 AM
[ in reply to Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players ] |
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I was taught hand over heart only for the pledge of allegiance and do that and stand and face the American flag. And no hat. 52 yrs old as reference. Only the last two for anthem. I don’t know what is right but I’ve done that since grade school. Proud American
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Orange Elite [5464]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I have always stood for national anthem and i usually sing it , but...
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Jan 14, 2024, 10:28 AM
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no hand over heart for the anthem. I usually do it for the flag and certainly always face the flag in both instances.
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CU Guru [1598]
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Re: I have always stood for national anthem and i usually sing it , but...
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Jan 14, 2024, 6:41 PM
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36 U.S.C.
United States Code, 1994 Edition
Title 36 - PATRIOTIC SOCIETIES AND OBSERVANCES
CHAPTER 10 - PATRIOTIC CUSTOMS
From the U.S. Government Publishing Office, www.gpo.gov
§171. Conduct during playing
During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart.
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Orange Beast [6575]
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Legend [6649]
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Hall of Famer [9046]
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
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Jan 14, 2024, 9:04 AM
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It's a reflection of our entire country ...i know this will trigger some people but it wouldn't shock me to find out that half of our own CURRENT military wouldn't put their hands over their hearts
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Game Changer [1638]
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Im pretty sure 100% of our current military wouldnt have their hand over
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Jan 14, 2024, 9:17 AM
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their heart for the national anthem. Can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or just stupid or both.
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Orange Immortal [65990]
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Re: Im pretty sure 100% of our current military wouldnt have their hand over
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Jan 14, 2024, 1:00 PM
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Military should use their right hand to salute the flag or the music if no flag is visible.
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Orange Elite [5486]
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Orange Elite [5464]
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1st Rounder [621]
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
Jan 14, 2024, 2:48 PM
[ in reply to Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players ] |
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Currently serving military members would not place their hands over their heart. They would stand at attention while facing the flag. Quit trying to stir up agnst amongst everyone. As a curebtly serving military member all I expect is for someone to rwmove their hat and face the colors respectfully.
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Rival Killer [3009]
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
Jan 14, 2024, 9:08 AM
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I personally do, but didnt think it was a requirement. I try to stay away from the social justice warrior bs. I think you would find that 3/4 of our student athletes have vastly different political beliefs than you. Just the way the world is now unfortunately.
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CU Medallion [19082]
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
Jan 14, 2024, 9:13 AM
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Maybe a little grace is in order. I do get your point and I agree with it up to the part of changing your opinion about a young man based on most probably just a lack of paying attention. These 20 year olds coming out of the locker room are most likely thinking about instructions they were just given, game plan, their assignments and just general nerves right before a game.
I'm pretty sure they didn't do it intentionally, and I just chalk it up to being mentally distracted and being young and hyped. I'm sure the coaches will hear the feedback and remind them of our expectations and their responsibilities.
Message was edited by: slwcu79®
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TigerNet Elite [73514]
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
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Jan 14, 2024, 9:44 AM
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Buzz Williams did a video when at VT with his team about how to act.
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Dynasty Maker [3246]
TigerPulse: 89%
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
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Jan 14, 2024, 9:20 AM
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Wow!! That’s what it took to get you to post about the young man?
Did He sit down?
Did He raise a fist?
Did He kneel down?
Grace is a wonderful thing!
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Heisman Winner [78358]
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lol, Grace?
Jan 14, 2024, 6:37 PM
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You serious Clark? Aren't you the POS that called out myfavO last night for no reason making yourself look like an old pitiful codger?
MyfavOrange®, HitsLikeRendrickTaylor
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Dynasty Maker [3246]
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Re: lol, Grace?
Jan 16, 2024, 1:22 PM
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Well I do not spend every minute on this board and I have no idea of what you are talking about. However if I called someone out I had a reason. As for you talking tuff on here and sending me tmails. I guess I am supposed to be scared, Well I am not. But if you would like to send me another Tmail I will give you my actual name and location and we can meet whenever you like. What a sad little person you are!!!
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Tiger Titan [46613]
TigerPulse: 78%
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Did you feel the same when some of our football players did the same thing?***
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Jan 14, 2024, 9:20 AM
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Orange Blooded [2327]
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Re: Did you feel the same when some of our football players did the same thing?***
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Jan 14, 2024, 9:42 AM
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You’re just making that up. Last I checked players are in the locker room or riding the bus around when the anthem is being played. What exactly is your example?
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Tiger Titan [46613]
TigerPulse: 78%
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We play away games and neutral site games too.
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Jan 14, 2024, 10:32 AM
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But you make a great point about our players never being present for the national anthem during home football games. It’s pretty bad that we don’t allow them to participate, especially since we are a former military school.
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Orange Elite [5464]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Another Judge Kellar trolling comment...
Jan 14, 2024, 10:38 AM
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Why dont we tail gate, have 80,000 show up in the stadium with the players dressed out, and we play the national anthem with required full salutes and then we all go home? ...
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Paw Master [17255]
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Re: Another Judge Kellar trolling comment...
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Jan 14, 2024, 1:22 PM
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Notice that he fails to acknowledge the mistake he made in his original post regarding our football team and attention to the anthem. A pretty blatant oversight for someone who claims to a major fan and also efforts to have people believe he is directly connected to our basketball program. He should have been acutely aware that our football team has avoided this controversy by not being on the field.
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TigerNet Legend [145420]
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Clemson Icon [27025]
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Clemson Icon [27025]
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CU Medallion [20979]
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
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Jan 14, 2024, 9:21 AM
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Orange Elite [5311]
TigerPulse: 93%
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
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Jan 14, 2024, 9:42 AM
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It would be good to see all of them placing their hand over their heart but as long as they stand and look toward the flag I’m good. Sitting down or taking a knee would be unacceptable
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Orange Beast [6375]
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
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Jan 14, 2024, 10:02 AM
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I don't put my hand over my heart during the national anthem, I only do so during the pledge of allegiance. I was taught to stand at attention during the national anthem. My neighborhood and the elementary school I grew up in N Charleston was full of military families and that is how we were taught in the 1960's. So I see nothing wrong with what he did.
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Orange Beast [6375]
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
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Jan 14, 2024, 10:13 AM
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When I said stand at attention that was a misstatement. I was taught hands straight down to my side, stand up straight and face the flag during the National Anthem
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Letterman [158]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
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Jan 14, 2024, 10:13 AM
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Career military officer. I stand at attention. You are misinformed.
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Orange Elite [5464]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Military can stand at attention and should....
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Jan 14, 2024, 10:33 AM
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i am just a senior citizen and ex-gigolo. I always stand with my hands behind my back for the national anthem.
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CU Guru [1589]
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
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Jan 14, 2024, 10:21 AM
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Jim, please keep in mind different people have different ways of respecting the national anthem. Myself I drop into pensive thought, I think about Fort McHenry, which I’ve been to many times, I think about the Americans that have lost their lives, and I think about foreign conflicts. I think about how fortunate we are to have the constitution we have. I think about some of the conversations I’ve had with people that suffered in World War II and in the gulf war and how fortunate those of us in America are. Bottom line is I think a lot, sometimes a tear or two.
I have never seen it as a requirement to put a hand on a heart. I do see it is a requirement to stand up. For example, if I was in a foreign country, and everybody stood up for their national anthem, I would stand up also just seems like respect and common sense.
My $0.02.
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Orange Elite [5464]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Good lawd Jim, get real....
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Jan 14, 2024, 10:23 AM
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i think you are just trolling here, but time to get real , not everyone stands and poses perfectly for the national anthem, good lawd, get real....
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Valley Protector [1464]
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
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Jan 14, 2024, 10:30 AM
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This is what disappoints me...
People not really understanding the focus and reasoning behind another's actions and assuming or projecting their own beliefs onto that person or community.
That is the antithesis of America and the true culture of democracy.
The thin layer of understanding or compassion coupled with the shallow depth of effort to evaluate, educate and comprehend the nuances and complexities that comprise another human's perspectives, experiences and beliefs ensure biased assumptions, hypocritical judgment, and blind ignorance.
This country was founded on the opposite belief of requiring fealty to a leader or thing.
And educate yourself about the national anthem. It only became such in early 1931. So we did not have one for 150 years or so.
"The anthem was never loved for itself, because it’s not a very good song. When Congress designated it as our national anthem in 1931, at the urging of veterans’ groups who thought we should have one and southerners who were promoting Confederate ideology, there were other contenders including "America the Beautiful," "America" (the God Save the King/Queen sound-alike) and "Yankee Doodle." There were battles in the press, during which the patriotism of opponents of the song was questioned, that are being echoed in today’s media.
Francis Scott Key, who wrote the lyrics during the War of 1812, was a slaveowner who defended slaveowners as a lawyer and prosecuted abolitionists as a U.S. attorney. (Key also represented some slaves and freed a few of his own, but thought African-Americans should “return” to Africa — even those who were born here.) We don’t often hear the third stanza, which disparages former slaves who fought for the British: “No refuge could save the hireling and slave / From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave.”
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Dynasty Maker [3246]
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
Jan 17, 2024, 11:59 AM
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I totally disagree with you when you say the Anthem is not a very good song.
It is a great song! The lyrics are great and the Melody is beautiful even if difficult to sing!
I love music and I love “ The Star Spangled Banner!
Perhaps you should listen to Whitney Houston sing our National Anthem!!!
Not good it is absolutely Great!
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Gridiron Giant [15645]
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
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Jan 14, 2024, 10:38 AM
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When I was playing sports we were told to stand up straight with our hands down during the National Anthem. We put our hands over our hearts during the Pledge of Alligance and bowed our head for the prayer.
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Top TigerNet [29783]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Im mad you dont perform your patriotism
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Jan 14, 2024, 11:04 AM
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“… the way I want you to perform your patriotism”
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Rival Killer [3060]
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
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Jan 14, 2024, 11:20 AM
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We went over this months ago jim38. You crawled me because I didn’t agree. You even had Flatfoots chiming in calling me a lib. Why are you not defending your stance today? Too many folks disagreeing of course but you do you!
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Orange Beast [6180]
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
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Jan 14, 2024, 12:27 PM
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I also noticed that during the "Gathering at the Paw" after the game that most players do not know the words to the Alma Mater.......or simply don't care enough to sing it. Back in the day, this would have been declared heresy and punishment would be in order. Oh, how the times have changed.
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Rival Killer [3084]
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Clemson basketball won a game
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Jan 14, 2024, 12:38 PM
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So the Lunatic Fringe has to find something to nit pick about. It never fails.
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Clemson Icon [27025]
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What we were taught and another question.
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Jan 14, 2024, 12:44 PM
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We were taught as kids to face the flag and stand with our hands at our sides during the national anthem. We were taught to put our hand over our heart during the pledge of allegiance. Of course, hat removed for both. It seems like the hand over the heart for the anthem is a relatively recent thing?
Here’s one I don’t know the answer to. At football games, the flag is presented by the color guard on the field and there is also a flag on the flagpole in the SE corner of the stadium. Which should we face? This is a legitimate question that maybe some of the veterans or people who know more about the official protocol might be able to answer? For some reason I tend to face the higher flying, permanent flag on the flagpole. I catch myself seemingly being the only person in the stadium doing that. A couple of years ago when they put in the bigger video board they moved the flagpole and it took me a few seconds to find it for the anthem.
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Orange Immortal [65990]
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I know what you mean - since I was taught to face the flag
Jan 14, 2024, 1:13 PM
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or the music if no flag was visible, I tend to face the flag on the field since the music is also coming from there. Don't know if there is a preferred way when there is more than one flag.
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Gridiron Giant [15972]
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Jim, how old are you friend?
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Jan 14, 2024, 12:44 PM
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Being sincere…
Bc this is a 20 yo kid who is about to play basketball. And while you may have a life’s worth of perspective and nothing else going on in your kind during the National Anthem, is it really fair to come on here and blast a player who is probably mentally completely not plugged in to the pomp and circumstance going on around him as he prepares for the game
Relax
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Orange Immortal [65990]
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At the football games - the announcer says to place your hand over
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Jan 14, 2024, 12:56 PM
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your heart for the pledge - don't remember that for anything else . He says active military and veterans can render the hand salute ( which I do) for the anthem but I wouldn't be critical of someone not placing a hand over their heart.
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Rival Killer [2882]
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
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Jan 14, 2024, 1:03 PM
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Get off my lawn!!! Not a big deal ...not required.
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Orange Blooded [2489]
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
Jan 14, 2024, 1:26 PM
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For those who served many of us are deep in reflection and truly don’t notice those things. But I understand your concern.
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Clemson Sports Icon [59580]
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
Jan 14, 2024, 1:26 PM
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I bragged about how hard he has played myself. IMO the placing your hand over your heart during the National Anthem is to show your sorrow for the ones that gave everything they had to give for our country, and anyone that don't feel for the ones that gave it all, I have no respect for those types of people regardless of what they do...
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Heisman Winner [78358]
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I have to be honest, Jim,
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Jan 14, 2024, 1:28 PM
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that's really petty. There is no requirement to put your hand over your heart. I do it, but that's how I was taught. I can assure you that Ian nor his family will lose any sleep over your opinion and that he's just as patriotic as the next guy. Maybe even you, Jimmy.
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CU Guru [1010]
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Like many fans, I'm sure they meant no disrespect.***
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Jan 14, 2024, 2:07 PM
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Orange Blooded [2185]
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
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Jan 14, 2024, 2:56 PM
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Your post next Sunday will be "GET OFF MY LAWN"
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Clemson Sports Icon [57746]
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
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Jan 14, 2024, 3:32 PM
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As long as he was standing, I'm good with it.
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Recruit [97]
TigerPulse: 93%
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Give it a rest.
Jan 14, 2024, 3:42 PM
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Theyre kids. Maybe theyre thinking about the game, or their assignment in the game. Or maybe theyre praying. Or nervous. Or both.
What they dont need are more cheapseat apparatchiks cup-checking them on loyalty and patriotism.
I tend to stand quietly and think about all the folks I love whove given a lot more than me. But maybe I should wave a flag, set off a firecracker, build an altar and genuflect.
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Legend [6649]
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Was that a serious post ?***
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Jan 14, 2024, 3:55 PM
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National Champion [7561]
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You gotta realize these kids werent required to say the pledge
Jan 14, 2024, 4:14 PM
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Or sing the anthem before school every day like we used to. They just probably don’t know that they’re supposed to
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CU Medallion [18415]
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Deer Herr Kommandandt,
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Jan 14, 2024, 5:17 PM
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Chill, bro.
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Game Day Hero [4333]
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Hand over heart ? It does not matter
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Jan 14, 2024, 5:46 PM
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As long you stand for the antherm and be quiet maybe sing along, that is fine.
Controversial: The Star Spangled Banner is an awkward song, hard to sing, and really not that good.
“America The Beautiful” is a much better song, prettier. Easier to sing too. It should be the National Anthem.
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Rival Killer [2957]
TigerPulse: 100%
33
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Re: Hand over heart ? It does not matter
Jan 14, 2024, 10:17 PM
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There is a very interesting story behind "America the Beautiful".
Irving Berlin, who was of course Jewish, was a prolific song writer. At the height of his career, he wrote a song a day. Yet he could not read or write music. He would hum the tune to his music writer who would translate that to notes.
One of the songs he wrote during that time was "America the Beautiful". He had his own publishing company in New York and often would "test" his songs in the New York market before a wider release. The negative backlash he received over "America the Beautiful" was overwhelming. Why? The Christian conservatives in New York did not believe a Jewish man could love America.
So he held it back for several years until finally Kate Smith recorded it and it was an instant hit across the country. In retaliation to the Christian conservatives in New York, Berlin donated all royalties from "God Bless America" FOREVER to the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts and to date, they have received about $25 million.
He never thought much of the song or at least he didn't think it was anything special and he always said it was not a national anthem. That wasn't why he wrote it. It is explicitly written in his final documents that permission never be granted to make it the national anthem.
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Game Day Hero [4333]
TigerPulse: 98%
36
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Hand over heart ? It does not matter
Jan 14, 2024, 5:46 PM
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As long you stand for the antherm and be quiet maybe sing along, that is fine.
Controversial: The Star Spangled Banner is an awkward song, hard to sing, and really not that good.
“America The Beautiful” is a much better song, prettier. Easier to sing too. It should be the National Anthem.
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Athletic Dir [1163]
TigerPulse: 100%
26
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
1
Jan 14, 2024, 6:56 PM
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For me, my heart belongs to Jesus, not America. It doesn’t bother me for anyone else to do it, but I personally don’t feel comfortable with the hand on the heart. Facing the flag while standing is just as respectful IMO. Lots of things we need to worry about with the younger generations but I don’t think this is one of them.
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Starter [387]
TigerPulse: 100%
16
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
Jan 15, 2024, 2:55 PM
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You should change your name to ‘Easily Triggered’ or ‘Snowflake’
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Starter [387]
TigerPulse: 100%
16
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
Jan 15, 2024, 2:56 PM
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Hands over hearts are for pledges
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Paw Master [16948]
TigerPulse: 100%
51
Posts: 16889
Joined: 2004
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
Jan 16, 2024, 1:25 PM
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No problem with what they did. I don't place my hand over my heart during National Anthem either. I do for the Pledge. You can show respect in may ways. I don't see it being a big deal.
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Paw Warrior [4718]
TigerPulse: 100%
37
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Re: Im VERY disappointed in Schiefflen and several other players
1
Jan 17, 2024, 12:03 PM
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I'm disappointed they can't play defense especially perimeter defense and blew a lead and lost the game. That's what I'm most disappointed in.
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