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Replies: 55
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Athletic Dir [1117]
TigerPulse: 92%
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If DJ lights it up at Oregon State,
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Jan 3, 2023, 12:54 PM
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It will have an impact on our coaching staff and recruiting.
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National Champion [7512]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: If DJ lights it up at Oregon State,
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Jan 3, 2023, 12:59 PM
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If he does, you‘d have to put all the blame on Streeter.
I’m rooting for DJ, like I’m sure we all are. Can you imagine the meltdown on TNet is DJ excels while Cade struggles? It would be chaos.
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Orange Immortal [68088]
TigerPulse: 100%
60
Posts: 90176
Joined: 2001
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Before DJ can excel at Oregon State...
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Jan 3, 2023, 1:07 PM
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he will have to learn to read defenses better, stop holding the ball too long, stop locking on to the primary receivers, progress through his reads faster, and be more consistent and accurate with his throws. I think it's fair to say that Brian Lindgren, who is the OC and QB coach at Oregon State, has his work cut out for him.
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Asst Coach [865]
TigerPulse: 65%
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Re: Before DJ can excel at Oregon State...
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Jan 3, 2023, 1:14 PM
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Yup with fixing what Streeter messed up!
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Orange Immortal [68088]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 90176
Joined: 2001
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I also think its fair to say...
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Jan 3, 2023, 1:15 PM
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the play calling was hindered, at least to a certain extent, by the limitations of the QB.
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Solid Orange [1340]
TigerPulse: 77%
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Re: I also think its fair to say...
Jan 3, 2023, 1:23 PM
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DJ will be amazing next year
Coaching killed DJ
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Legend [6818]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: I also think its fair to say...
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Jan 3, 2023, 1:24 PM
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You are a coward
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Orange Immortal [68088]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 90176
Joined: 2001
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All-Conference [442]
TigerPulse: 86%
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Re: I also think its fair to say...
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Jan 3, 2023, 2:55 PM
[ in reply to I also think its fair to say... ] |
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I'd actually argue the opposite, and I'm not a DJ fan. He was definitely limited, but Streeter didn't do anything to help him out. Just kept calling the same read-option and screen heavy scheme that Chad Morris originally brought in. Boyd, Watson, and Lawrence were all really good at knowing when to give and when to pull the read option, and they all had at least one guy who scared defenses so much that they played 10 yards off the ball to keep from giving up the long TD. We didn't have that guy this year, and DJ was/is awful at diagnosing the edge guy on the read option. We still had enough offensive talent to field a better offense than we did, but Streeter doesn't know how to run anything else. We should have had a lot more levels and flood concepts to narrow the amount of field that DJ was having to read and give him multiple options in the same field of vision. And those schemes are generally designed to at least get 1 guy open since you're hoping to either put more receivers than the defense can cover in that area or force 1 guy to pick between covering shallow or covering intermediate and throwing to the one he doesn't.
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Orange Immortal [68088]
TigerPulse: 100%
60
Posts: 90176
Joined: 2001
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Those plays take time to develop...
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Jan 3, 2023, 3:07 PM
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and waiting for plays to develop wasn't DJ's forte. He would generally end-up holding the ball too long, taking a sack, or making an ill-advised throw.
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All-Conference [442]
TigerPulse: 86%
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Re: Those plays take time to develop...
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Jan 3, 2023, 3:42 PM
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It seemed to me that he was always holding the ball too long because he was waiting on a guy to get wide open and wasn't comfortable throwing it otherwise. But I'm only going off of the few replays where they would show the angle from behind the play. But there were a ton of those where a guy would get a yard of separation off of his break, but DJ would hold it waiting for him to get more open not realizing that all he was doing was giving the DB time to recover.
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Game Day Hero [4537]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Those plays take time to develop...
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Feb 11, 2023, 9:31 PM
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Bingo. He was terrified to throw the ball. Only ball he could throw consistently accurate was the streak. Streeter got dealt a bad hand imo, Riley is a major upgrade but I really think Dabo handcuffed everything by forcing DJ as the starter.
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CU Guru [1500]
TigerPulse: 76%
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Who else should have been the starter?
Feb 12, 2023, 2:00 PM
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You're aware DJ was 8-0 and had us in line for the playoffs, correct?
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CU Guru [1500]
TigerPulse: 76%
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No, holding the ball too long was on the QB.
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Feb 11, 2023, 11:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: Those plays take time to develop... ] |
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If you happened to go to games and actually paid attention to what was happening in the 2nd and 3rd levels, you would have seen guys open. Did you notice the other QB finding them?
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CU Guru [1500]
TigerPulse: 76%
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DJ didn't run hardly any read option.
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Feb 11, 2023, 11:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: I also think its fair to say... ] |
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He was directed to either handoff or keep. Another element of read option is throwing downfield. In reality read option consists of 3 things, handing off, keeping the ball, or throwing .. all continent on "reads". Most often DJ wasn't making reads. He was running the called play.
If by screen you mean short passes, well yeah, DJ's accuracy went down significantly beyond 8 yards.
Our offense was absolutely nothing like a Chad Morris offense.
We had guys open in the 2nd and 3rd levels. DJ had options in his progression. The problem was that DJ either didn't see them, he saw them and lacked confidence, or he threw it inaccurately.
We were "handcuffed" by the QB. Maybe you didn't notice the immediate improvement when we changed QBs?
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Scout Team [87]
TigerPulse: 78%
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Re: I also think its fair to say...
Feb 12, 2023, 9:45 AM
[ in reply to Re: I also think its fair to say... ] |
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Maybe Streeter was told to run the “clemson offense” and not given another option…
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CU Guru [1500]
TigerPulse: 76%
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If by "Clemson offense" you mean one custom designed for DJ,
Feb 12, 2023, 2:36 PM
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then yeah.
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Solid Orange [1301]
TigerPulse: 74%
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Re: Before DJ can excel at Oregon State...
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Feb 12, 2023, 7:55 AM
[ in reply to Re: Before DJ can excel at Oregon State... ] |
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The coaching staff tried...you cannot fix a grown man mentally...you could see DJs funk developing during a single game or even a quarter...I actually felt sorry for the WRs and the OL...no quarter should need 6 or 7 seconds to locate an open orange jersey and then miss him by 5 yards! With you though wish him well at OSU!
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CU Guru [1500]
TigerPulse: 76%
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Nailed it***
Feb 12, 2023, 1:58 PM
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Gridiron Giant [16046]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I agree with your assessment but wonder
Jan 3, 2023, 3:06 PM
[ in reply to Before DJ can excel at Oregon State... ] |
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What you think changed from him playing great in relief of TL and then never seemingly return to that form
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All-Conference [442]
TigerPulse: 86%
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Re: I agree with your assessment but wonder
Jan 3, 2023, 3:39 PM
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Etienne, Rogers, and Powell were significant factors.
Etienne didn't go nuts in either game on the ground, but the threat was there. You could never run a light box as long as he was in the backfield, and that opened up more space downfield. At the same time, you couldn't have your linemen just guess pass and fly upfield, because if you left a gap open, Etienne would be trucking your safety before you realized what was happening. Shipley is really good, but defenses don't necessarily fear him. And Etienne also had several big gains in the air in the BC game.
Rogers was really good at turning short passes into long gains because of his quickness, RB build, and vision, but he also had enough downfield ability that you couldn't just exclusively play press on him. We don't have one of those guys now.
Powell just randomly turned into a downfield monster that year. That was the first year we didn't have a true downfield threat coming into the season, and he just took that spot over out of nowhere. As crazy as it seems, he was probably better than any WR we fielded this season.
But it wasn't just personnel, it was also an issue of mental toughness. DJ played loose in both games because we didn't necessarily HAVE to win them. Going into BC it was assumed that if we somehow lost, we'd get a pass because we didn't have Lawrence. And then when we won that, the same was true for ND. But once he had expectations, he just started to fold. And any little mistake he made would just snowball play to play and week to week. The WF game this year was purely a fluke.
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110%er [3637]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Re: I agree with your assessment but wonder
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Jan 3, 2023, 4:04 PM
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I've said the same thing but not as well or thoroughly.
Rodgers and Powell, both 5th-year seniors, had the best games of their college careers playing those 2 weeks with DJ instead of TL16.
Tony E's play calling and DJ's reads priorized the 2 guys who had the experience to take advantage of their opportunities. And they did.
Two years later we acknowledge how badly these guys fooled us all, and we still don't give credit to Tony Elliott?
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CU Guru [1500]
TigerPulse: 76%
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You literally made a bunch of that up.
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Feb 12, 2023, 2:28 PM
[ in reply to Re: I agree with your assessment but wonder ] |
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Amari Rogers and Cornell Powell are not world beaters. Powell didn't make it in the league and Rogers was waived by the Packers.
Rogers and Powell had the best seasons of their careers and parlayed them into getting drafted much higher and getting a $5 million contract for Rogers, and Powell is on the Chiefs practice squad after not catching a pass in his NFL career. Both of those guys dramatically improved their games and tremendous seasons playing with both Trevor and DJ. It was not just DJ - not even close to correct. Interestingly, both of those guys ramped up their game and earned lucrative NFL money - both saw improvement under first year coach Tyler Grisham.
But the biggest thing of all is - ETN wasn't as much of a factor in the run game as the guys this year were. Number one, we had our most productive passing season in Clemson history in 2020. Secondly, the rushing game in 2020 was ranked well below the rushing game of 2022.
In 2022 we were the 47th ranked rushing offense. We averaged 4.56 yds per carry and 178 yards per game.
2020 was well below that. We were the 75th ranked rushing offense with 4.49 yards per carry and 154 yards per game.
The 2022 rushing offense was more explosive and useful than the 2020 rushing offense. The 2020 rushing offense had NOTHING to do with DJ's better game in 2020.
We have receivers every bit as good as Rogers and Powell. These guys are not Tee Higgins.
All in all I'm guessing you made up your "analysis" on the fly with no real research.
DJ played much, much better in 2020. He was much more confident and accurate. Don't know what happened, but Rogers, Powell, and ETN were NOT the reasons.
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CU Guru [1500]
TigerPulse: 76%
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Bro, ETN had 18 carries for 28 yards against ND.
Feb 12, 2023, 2:34 PM
[ in reply to Re: I agree with your assessment but wonder ] |
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And he had 20 carries for 84 yds against BC.
Together that's 38 carries for 112 yards. Less than 3 yards a carry.
Help me understand how any of that helped DJ?
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Ring of Honor [21001]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 12735
Joined: 2018
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Re: If DJ lights it up at Oregon State,
Jan 3, 2023, 3:02 PM
[ in reply to Re: If DJ lights it up at Oregon State, ] |
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My honest opinion is if DJ succeeds it will have much more to do with him getting into a system that was a better fit for what he does well than a reflection on our coaching. I don't think coaching helps him unless he can get in the pocket and sling it, and a good OL to protect him, and not have to be an RPO QB. Whoever we bring in at QB will always have to adapt to our scheme. We can provide a few tweaks to help him out but we aren't going to change the entire offense and put the entire team through a new learning curve for one player. We would only do that if a new OC came in with a different system which makes sense.
I wish DJ well and hope Oregon State does provide him with a system that allows his natural ability to come out and help him be successful.
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Legend [7022]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 10649
Joined: 2003
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Re: If DJ lights it up at Oregon State,
Feb 12, 2023, 4:14 PM
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What system fits a slow, inaccurate passer, who can't read a defense or run progressions, and has severe pocket panic?
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Freshman [2]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: If DJ lights it up at Oregon State,
Feb 11, 2023, 8:05 PM
[ in reply to Re: If DJ lights it up at Oregon State, ] |
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If he does, you‘d have to put all the blame on Streeter.
I’m rooting for DJ, like I’m sure we all are. Can you imagine the meltdown on TNet is DJ excels while Cade struggles? It would be chaos.
YEEaaah!!. If DJ “lights it up” then he will have the job of pulling the stadium lighting switch” and nothing else.
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Rival Killer [2659]
TigerPulse: 74%
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Re: If DJ lights it up at Oregon State,
Feb 13, 2023, 1:03 PM
[ in reply to Re: If DJ lights it up at Oregon State, ] |
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I hope for the best. I think it was more us not finding the right DJ. I believe the coaching staff flubbed DJ.
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Recruit [82]
TigerPulse: 92%
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I have no doubt DJ can throw 25+ TDs with 10 interceptions
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Jan 3, 2023, 1:34 PM
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at Oregon State in meaningless games and go 10-3 or 9-4.
The issue for me with DJ was always between his ears, and playing out of the spotlight of a elite program with CFP aspirations will probably allow him to do really well on a team that is not expected to win every game convincingly.
I don't know that if he transferred to Ohio State or Oklahoma or Texas A&M or any other school with real pressure to win right now if he would have done any better at those schools. Not that they would have taken him, I'm just saying Oregon State is a huge step down from Clemson expectations-wise and that's probably a good thing for him.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [98585]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2009
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Is Oregon State in the twilight zone?***
Jan 3, 2023, 1:43 PM
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Solid Orange [1301]
TigerPulse: 74%
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Re: Is Oregon State in the twilight zone?***
Jan 3, 2023, 2:58 PM
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No but they have a great state hospital in Corvalis!
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Standout [205]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Re: If DJ lights it up at Oregon State,
Jan 3, 2023, 1:46 PM
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I hope DJ has an awesome year. We are going to have a great year, so hopefully he will too. The Pack 12 defenses are not normally great, so it’s a good opportunity to put up good numbers.
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Starter [295]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: If DJ lights it up at Oregon State,
Jan 3, 2023, 2:01 PM
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And what would happen if he excels at Oregon State and Cade excels here? It simply could be that DJ couldn't process or learn what Streeter was trying to get across. Maybe the system at Oregon State will be a better fit for DJ and ours proves to be a proper fit for Cade. There are a number of variables to consider with this evaluation a year from now. I know when I was in college, I learned some subjects better under particular professors, as their teaching style better suited my way of processing and learning information than others.
I wish DJ the best. I feel Cade is a better fit for our offensive system. We may not have scored many points in the bowl game, but with Cade this is the first time in a long time I felt we finally got back to the up tempo offense that got us the National Championship with Deshaun.
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Starter [258]
TigerPulse: 93%
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Re: If DJ lights it up at Oregon State,
Jan 3, 2023, 2:41 PM
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Of Course he will light it up.
There isn’t a single team in that conference that has a lick of Defense..
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Freshman [-95]
TigerPulse: 37%
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I'm willing to bet one of two things.....
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Jan 3, 2023, 2:59 PM
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1. He becomes a backup to whoever the starter is.
2. He starts, sucks as bad their as he did here and is benched.
As unimpressed as I am with Streeter.....I've never seen a QB throw more INT's than TD's in a season.
DJU is terrible. Hope for the best, but I highly doubt that ANY change happens.
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All-Pro [789]
TigerPulse: 82%
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Re: I'm willing to bet one of two things.....
Feb 11, 2023, 8:33 PM
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1. He becomes a backup to whoever the starter is.
2. He starts, sucks as bad their as he did here and is benched.
As unimpressed as I am with Streeter.....I've never seen a QB throw more INT's than TD's in a season.
DJU is terrible. Hope for the best, but I highly doubt that ANY change happens.
How did you get a 37 pulse?. DJ is the worst QB we have had since I started going to the Valley in 1965. Billy Lott was not good but that was a run based offense - hard for me to project Billy to a spread attack. I am giving Billy the benefit of the doubt and assuming he could consistently complete a screen pass. Will Proctor is right there as well. I mean his arm strength was super limited to maybe a 30 yard throw with a good tailwind and having time to really step into the throw. My prediction is that Oregon State gets a long look at DJ in Spring ball and figures out real quick that he's going to be near the bottom of the depth chart. I will be shocked if he ever plays a snap there. Needs to step down to a lower division to see significant PT IMO.
And yes I agree our WR's are not the best and I waited the entire season for Clemson to drag a tight end or RB across the middle of the field on a delay. Maybe every team took that play away or maybe we just didn't want the gamble of anything between the hashes. Multiple issues but he's just not a D1 QB.
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Hall of Famer [9074]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: If DJ lights it up at Oregon State,
Jan 3, 2023, 3:52 PM
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Its not a transitive property proposition. Its a simple matter of if he get's pressured. If he does not, he will play well. If he does, he won't.
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National Champion [7482]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Re: If DJ lights it up at Oregon State,
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Jan 3, 2023, 6:36 PM
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nevva gonna happen
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Associate AD [1039]
TigerPulse: 96%
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You left out our fan base***
Jan 3, 2023, 6:55 PM
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CU Medallion [19710]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2010
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Not expecting "light it up"
Jan 3, 2023, 7:08 PM
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But expecting discernible improvement. Good luck at OR ST DJ!
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Heisman Winner [78603]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2018
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Sorry Plankton, that dog don't hunt.
Feb 11, 2023, 8:07 PM
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Reference hire of Garret Riley.
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Legend [7022]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: If DJ lights it up at Oregon State,
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Feb 11, 2023, 8:09 PM
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Only thing he will light up at Oregon State might be some Colorado weed.
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Heisman Winner [78603]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2018
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Too bad he'll
Feb 11, 2023, 8:16 PM
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#### up the pass.
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Hall of Famer [8186]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: If DJ lights it up at Oregon State,
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Feb 11, 2023, 8:11 PM
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I don’t think we have to worry about that. He ranks as one of the worst QBs we have had in a very, very long time.
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All-Pro [789]
TigerPulse: 82%
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Re: If DJ lights it up at Oregon State,
Feb 11, 2023, 9:23 PM
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I don’t think we have to worry about that. He ranks as one of the worst QBs we have had in a very, very long time.
Finally, someone that gets it. Been going since 65 to the Valley and I rate him as the all time worst. You can make an argument for maybe a couple others that only played one full year in a different era but he's right there with those guys. No idea what people are thinking when he dumps balls three feet in front of receiver that is standing 15 feet from him behind the line of scrimmage. A few plays later he sails the ball over the RB's head who is maybe 20 feet away. Come on. We've never had one do that on such a consistent basis.
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Oculus Spirit [39874]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2015
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Re: If DJ lights it up at Oregon State,
Feb 11, 2023, 8:53 PM
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He will probably be ok but not great as he had been touted out of high school.
Streeter wasn’t the one throwing screens or quick outs over their heads or on the ground. He has probably had the best coaching and camps as any body else that was rated as high as he was. Pure talent could have overcome some of the coaching deficiencies.
Something happened and it definitely messed with the mental side of his game. Like a golfer when the putter goes cold you are scratching your head trying to figure it out but soon realize it’s a lack of confidence. It could have been a bad game or a pick but I believe it was something because he did not look good last year or this year.
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All-Pro [789]
TigerPulse: 82%
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Re: If DJ lights it up at Oregon State,
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Feb 11, 2023, 9:38 PM
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He will probably be ok but not great as he had been touted out of high school.
Streeter wasn’t the one throwing screens or quick outs over their heads or on the ground. He has probably had the best coaching and camps as any body else that was rated as high as he was. Pure talent could have overcome some of the coaching deficiencies.
Something happened and it definitely messed with the mental side of his game. Like a golfer when the putter goes cold you are scratching your head trying to figure it out but soon realize it’s a lack of confidence. It could have been a bad game or a pick but I believe it was something because he did not look good last year or this year.
It's not going to happen for him but you hit the nail on the head in that it's a mental thing. And a good analogy with golf. David Duval. #1 in the World. 13 PGA wins. British Open Champion. Lost his confidence. Once shot 59. Within 2 years was struggling to break 80 and abandoned the tour to try to work through the issues which plagued him. Never found that form again and bounced around playing from time to time with mostly terrible results. That story has been repeated many times in the game of golf but it's the same between the ears issue on those 5 yard screen passes that are a yard short for DJ. Unlikely to be corrected given the frequency of the issue.
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Game Day Hero [4537]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: If DJ lights it up at Oregon State,
Feb 11, 2023, 9:26 PM
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Very very very low chance this happens.
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110%er [3675]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Oregon State runs the ball much more than they pass
Feb 11, 2023, 11:00 PM
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This, by itself, should help DJ because there will be less pressure on the passing game.
For the record, I think DJ is a very limited player because he's inaccurate, has poor pocket presence, doesn't read the field and has other problems. That said, he IS better than Ben Gulbranson. Oregon State won some games last year where Gulbranson was absolutely TERRIBLE.
Know this: Jonathan Smith will sit DJ down if he doesn't perform well enough. He will not protect him like Dabo did.
I expect DJ to be marginally better, but not much. Anyone thinking he's going to just blow up and go next level just hasn't been paying attention. Streeter didn't give him much help but DJ was his own worst enemy. His major flaws are not fixable.
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CU Guru [1500]
TigerPulse: 76%
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We were 8-0 and in line for the playoffs.
Feb 12, 2023, 2:57 PM
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Cade wasn't ready and DJ was winning games.
Why and how did Dabo "protect" DJ?
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110%er [3675]
TigerPulse: 100%
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From the Syracuse game forward...
Feb 12, 2023, 7:24 PM
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DJ was shaky "as all get out", Cade should have gotten more opportunity on the field and should have received some first team practice reps.
I'm not saying Cade was ready to step in and be the starter midseason, but the grooming process definitely should have begun. But Dabo wanted to protect DJ's fragile mind because he was scared DJ would tank once any doubt stepped in he wouldn't finish the season as the starter.
Jonathan Smith doesn't work that way at Oregon State and won't have any loyalty to preserving DJ as the starter. Gulbranson wasn't good last year, but they won with him and he wasn't the reason they lost any games.
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CU Guru [1500]
TigerPulse: 76%
30
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Not true.
Feb 13, 2023, 10:22 AM
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DJ played well in the two games leading up to uSC.
Prior to the UNC game, Cade played in 5 games. He was 11 of 22 for 98 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT. Why would we have changed anything?
Dabo didn't continue starting DJ because he cared more about DJ's mental state than winning. He started him because he was the incumbent, and he was winning games while Cade was developing. Cade played in 5 games prior to UNC, and it was clear he wasn't ready to start, not that he should have been forced to anyway.
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Game Day Hero [4304]
TigerPulse: 100%
36
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Re: If DJ lights it up at Oregon State,
1
Feb 12, 2023, 6:54 AM
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I disagree.
It simply would mean that DJ developed further and the offense scheme is different.
Did Bama get blamed when Hurts went to Ok and excelled? Sometimes, change is needed.
Now, to imply that Steeter is to blame is a joke. Streeter did not tell DJ to make slow decisions. He did not tell DJ to throw balls no where near his receivers. He did not tell DJ to throw late or run slow.
We all watched it. It is what it is.
I hope he does well. He was a class guy.
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All-In [10274]
TigerPulse: 95%
45
Posts: 11806
Joined: 2003
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Re: If DJ lights it up at Oregon State,
1
Feb 12, 2023, 7:11 AM
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Not sure how some of you function out in the world based on the reasoning ability exhibited on T-net. DJs performance next year has zero to do with Clemson coaches. Hopefully a fresh start will allow him to clear his head and get back to previous form.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [98585]
TigerPulse: 100%
64
Posts: 97880
Joined: 2009
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DJ can't flip a switch and lite up a room...
Feb 12, 2023, 12:54 PM
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without having a panic attack.
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Orange Blooded [2573]
TigerPulse: 90%
32
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there's no If in that If
Feb 12, 2023, 2:02 PM
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stop looking for it.
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