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Rival Killer [2954]
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Hypothetical question about conference expansion. First,
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Dec 23, 2023, 6:37 PM
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I do not feel comfortable about our getting an invite from either the SEC or Big 10 should we find a way to exit the ACC. We all now realize it’s all about $$$ and viewing areas. The SEC has USux which covers all of South Carolina. We would not bring anything to the table for them revenue wise. The Big 10 is real big on academics. If they wanted to expand Virginia and North Carolina would open up two more viewing areas and both of them are strong academically.
Okay, all that being said, which of these two options would you vote for:
1, Clemson and FSU. join the SEC.
2.Clemson, FSU, and UNC join the Big 10.
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Hall of Famer [9046]
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Re: Hypothetical question about conference expansion. First,
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Dec 23, 2023, 6:44 PM
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As streaming services grow , "media markets" in its old cable network definition is going away.... predictions are in the next 10 years most sports will be moved on to streaming platforms so don't know how much that will come into play when making decisions for conferences
As to your other question, I have no idea where we could end up but my guess would be Big 10 before SEC
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Dynasty Maker [3563]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Hypothetical question about conference expansion. First,
Dec 25, 2023, 11:44 AM
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Pay attention Tnetters, cable cutters have driven the viewing audience back to OTA. The Big10 contract is built around the good old local network stations (Fox, CBS, and NBC). The lesser games are relegated to the streaming and sat/cable networks (ie FS1, Peacock, Paramount Plus, etc). OTA is where the real ad revenue exists. Don’t believe it? Consider who’s advertising on ACCN. Disney/ESPN is struggling but they still have ABC for OTA games. Thus, the ACC is screwed with Disney putting priority on SEC game broadcasts. Clemson still draws strong viewership, on average during past 8-10 years reaching up towards 4 million viewers per Nielsen numbers. Not as good as FSU but still respectable and worth the Big10 taking a closer look if considering a southern expansion.
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Valley Protector [1455]
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Re: Hypothetical question about conference expansion. First,
Dec 25, 2023, 11:58 AM
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Cable cutters are moving to streaming platforms much more so than OTA. The college football viewership demands more than one or two games a week. Many more games on Fox Sports than your local Fox OTA carrier. Currently the big games get featured on OTA, but no way to see all of your team’s games OTA. I’m guessing I’ve watched no more than 20% of Clemson games OTA, and that’s high because we’ve been elite over the last 6-7 years.
ACCN ad profiles are what they are because outside of key matchups, the football product ain’t so hot.
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Dynasty Maker [3563]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Hypothetical question about conference expansion. First,
Dec 25, 2023, 3:01 PM
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Streaming platforms aren’t profitable. That’s why the consolidation is continuing. The highest rated and profitable revenue is on OTA (and internet based platforms like YTTV that broadcast local network feeds). Big10 and ND know this and are getting paid big time. The FS1’s and subscription services (eg Peacock) are the cherry on top for the lesser games. ESPN has yet to figure out how to price a direct to consumer subscription plan that will succeed. The SEC will do ok with ABC/ESPN but at the expense of the ACC and Big12. ESPN will never pay those conferences competitive revenue because their games broadcast on cable/sat constrained sports channels don’t generate the viewership. Clemson against a mid pack Big10 school will generate better Nielsen ratings via OTA than it ever will on ESPN2.
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Ring of Honor [23744]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Would folks rather watch a good Clemson team or a sad coot team ?***
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Dec 23, 2023, 6:57 PM
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Paw Warrior [4980]
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Tiger Spirit [9766]
TigerPulse: 55%
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Re: Hypothetical question about conference expansion. First,
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Dec 23, 2023, 7:02 PM
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Neither. We need to stay in the ACC or join the Big12.
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Ring of Honor [21102]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Hypothetical question about conference expansion. First,
Dec 25, 2023, 7:19 PM
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Valley coot strikes again 🤣
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Game Changer [1977]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Hypothetical question about conference expansion. First,
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Dec 23, 2023, 7:21 PM
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You are absolutely CRAZY if you think we would not bring any financial gain over USuck. They would out draw us at all and tv would much rather have us over them.
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Head Coach [951]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Hypothetical question about conference expansion. First,
Dec 23, 2023, 7:34 PM
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SEC, it would also fit where we developmentally. We could play spoiler for a couple years while we rebuild, Dabo gives a few more rousing postgame interviews and gets us back to the top of the mountain.
Also makes more sense regionally, I am totally against these coast to coast conferences that span all sports. Sure it’s fine when you only have to travel 5 times in the regular season, but what about all the other sports? It’s crazy to make the cross country team literally go cross country. Most of these sports are filled with true student athletes who will use their degree more than their sport after college. Sending them on crazy road trips all the time will be detrimental to their lives as students
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Clemson Icon [27619]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2003
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I say
Dec 24, 2023, 3:50 PM
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Make the ACC stronger by expanding to more good, local athletic schools.
It would help if the ACC didn’t play Sisters of the Poor 2 or 3 times a year.
PERSONALLY I would like to see the military academies added to the league. A trip to Annapolis or West Point would be good road trips and, with the Tigers history, great home games.
Bring in the west coast teams is NOTva good idea .... imo
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Athletic Dir [1139]
TigerPulse: 85%
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Re: I say
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Dec 25, 2023, 11:53 AM
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u guys don't get it staying in the ACC is not an option anymore the ship has sailed.
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Starter [369]
TigerPulse: 77%
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Theres no one worth a crap for ACC expansion.***
Dec 25, 2023, 5:37 PM
[ in reply to I say ] |
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Hall of Famer [8597]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Why cant folks understand that geographical footprints no longer matter?***
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Dec 25, 2023, 11:03 AM
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Commissioner [1255]
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Re: Why cant folks understand that geographical footprints no longer matter?***
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Dec 25, 2023, 1:19 PM
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Because they do still matter.
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Ring of Honor [21238]
TigerPulse: 85%
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Re: Why cant folks understand that geographical footprints no longer matter?***
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Dec 25, 2023, 5:15 PM
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No they don’t. Every single conference just proved they don’t.
SEC took Texas whose fans already have the SECN. B1G took 2 teams in the same city.
B1G took the Oregon team in the smallest market.
ACC took 2 teams in the same state.
Big12 added another Utah team. Big12 added another Texas team.
Only eye balls and brand matter anymore in the world of streaming and subscriptions. There are no more borders with streaming services.
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Commissioner [1255]
TigerPulse: 93%
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Re: Why cant folks understand that geographical footprints no longer matter?***
Dec 25, 2023, 10:04 PM
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Yes they do still matter. Every contract is based on them.
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Ring of Honor [21238]
TigerPulse: 85%
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Re: Why cant folks understand that geographical footprints no longer matter?***
Dec 25, 2023, 11:34 PM
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No it’s not.
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Commissioner [1255]
TigerPulse: 93%
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Re: Why cant folks understand that geographical footprints no longer matter?***
Dec 26, 2023, 3:09 PM
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Yes they are. You are 100% incorrect. Every contract for the P5 is for a broadcaster. Even if you watch a game on a streaming service it is coming from a feed from an OTA broadcast.
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Starter [369]
TigerPulse: 77%
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Still wrong no matter how many times you post it.
Dec 26, 2023, 3:30 PM
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Conferences are expanding all over the country, and it’s almost entirely about viewership. Please do a little research - it’s not hard to find.
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Commissioner [1255]
TigerPulse: 93%
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Re: Still wrong no matter how many times you post it.
Dec 26, 2023, 7:36 PM
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I've done my research. It's obvious you've done nothing more than read the headlines. Did a little deeper and look at the actual payouts.
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Starter [369]
TigerPulse: 77%
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Commissioner [1255]
TigerPulse: 93%
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Re: No, they dont. It doesnt matter what region youre in or
Dec 25, 2023, 10:05 PM
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Yes they do. Every conferences contract is based on it. No conference had a streaming only contract.
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Ring of Honor [21238]
TigerPulse: 85%
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Re: No, they dont. It doesnt matter what region youre in or
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Dec 25, 2023, 11:36 PM
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No conferences contract has any regional aspect to it at all. The media partner can broadcast those games in any region is wants. And it does so on every single streaming platform which services their channels in every region of the world without borders. You’re talking horse and buggies while we’re talking cars.
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Commissioner [1255]
TigerPulse: 93%
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Re: No, they dont. It doesnt matter what region youre in or
Dec 26, 2023, 3:23 PM
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No, you are 100% wrong. There are three tiers of TV rights: Tier I, Tier II, and Tier III. Tier I is national broadcast. Tier II is regional broadcast. Tier III is anything not picked up by the networks, and also includes radio broadcasts.
Most of the broadcasts are in the Tier II or Tier III categories. That's why if you see a game on ABC for example, the eastern half of the country gets one game, and the western half gets another.
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Starter [369]
TigerPulse: 77%
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Based on what? Again, the biggest thing is viewership not area.
Dec 25, 2023, 11:42 PM
[ in reply to Re: No, they dont. It doesnt matter what region youre in or ] |
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That’s the simple fact.
Football is king. Viewership of football brand is the most important thing. Notre Dame, Clemson, and FSU are the most coveted programs left in the expansion / realignment of college football. I used to have hope for ACC expansion until their best effort were 3 football afterthoughts in Cal, Stanford, and SMU. Now I’m sure the ACC is going to dissolve. Clemson is just biding our time right now.
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Commissioner [1255]
TigerPulse: 93%
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Re: Based on what? Again, the biggest thing is viewership not area.
Dec 26, 2023, 3:29 PM
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Based on the actual contract.
Most broadcasts are regional, not national. Even of yiu haveva streaming service, that service is just showing the feed of a broadcaster.
For example if Clemson vs. Wake Forest is on ABC or ESPN, it's only bring broadcasted in a certain region (usually the east coast). Even if you watch via a streaming service, the streaming service is only giving you the feed from the OTA broadcaster.
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Starter [369]
TigerPulse: 77%
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Still wrong. Nobody is looking for teams nobody watches.
Dec 26, 2023, 5:23 PM
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You’re confused.
Do some research. It’s all over the internet. League contracts are primarily based on viewership. The end.
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Commissioner [1255]
TigerPulse: 93%
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Re: Still wrong. Nobody is looking for teams nobody watches.
Dec 26, 2023, 7:38 PM
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It's not me who is confused. You don't even know how the contracts are structured, or how the ratings are accumulated. Googling headlines is not research.
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Ring of Honor [21238]
TigerPulse: 85%
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Re: Based on what? Again, the biggest thing is viewership not area.
Dec 26, 2023, 5:57 PM
[ in reply to Re: Based on what? Again, the biggest thing is viewership not area. ] |
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Which broadcasts are regional???? The only ones I know of are the CW. The ones on ABC and CBS and NBC and Fox are NATIONAL. The ones on SECN, ACCN, B1G are NATIONAL because you either get the channel or you don’t. Nothing to do with where you live.
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Commissioner [1255]
TigerPulse: 93%
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Re: Based on what? Again, the biggest thing is viewership not area.
Dec 26, 2023, 7:46 PM
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Most of them. For example, when you see a game on ABC at 12:00pm, most of those games aren't national broadcasts. They show a different game depending on what area you are in. The east coast might get Clemson vs. Wake Forest, the Midwest might get Wisconsin vs. Minnesota, the southwest might get Texas Tech vs. Oklahoma St. etc. Everybody watching ABC at that specific time slot gets a game, but it's not always the same game.
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Ring of Honor [21238]
TigerPulse: 85%
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Re: Based on what? Again, the biggest thing is viewership not area.
Dec 26, 2023, 8:11 PM
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That is not true. The 12 ABC game is national now. All games on ABC are now national. They haven’t been regional for years.
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Commissioner [1255]
TigerPulse: 93%
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Re: Based on what? Again, the biggest thing is viewership not area.
Dec 26, 2023, 8:13 PM
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Some are, yes.
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Commissioner [1255]
TigerPulse: 93%
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Ring of Honor [21238]
TigerPulse: 85%
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Re: Based on what? Again, the biggest thing is viewership not area.
Dec 26, 2023, 8:30 PM
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No that’s not how it’s paid out.
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Clemson Icon [27619]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Why cant folks understand that geographical footprints no longer matter?***
Dec 26, 2023, 8:26 AM
[ in reply to Why cant folks understand that geographical footprints no longer matter?*** ] |
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They matter to people who actually go to games, perhaps that doesn’t mean anything to you!
Personally I GO to the games. Trips to California will be difficult for us very senior citizens!
For you couch fans .... who cares.
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All-Time Great [97799]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I believe you are missing the most important factor with FSU and Clemson.
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Dec 25, 2023, 11:31 AM
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The two schools' have a much greater viewership than other ACC schools. So far during the PO system Clemson has brought more shares of the playoff monies that all other ACC schools put together, all Big 10 schools put together and all the PAC and Big 12 teams put together.
Your premise seems to be lacking but I'd rather, for the good of all, see Clemson and FSU in the SEC. Those who think the Big 10 teams get a nice payday might want to consider what the SEC could demand of media rights if it included the addition of Clemson and FSU.
There's also the culture factor. Like it or not, most fans of both schools are southern born. We fit better with the SEC trash than the midwestern trash. Not much but at least SEC fans know the value of grits for breakfast and cornbread for supper.
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Solid Orange [1340]
TigerPulse: 91%
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Re: I believe you are missing the most important factor with FSU and Clemson.
Dec 26, 2023, 10:41 AM
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Somebody gets it.
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Team Captain [494]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: I believe you are missing the most important factor with FSU and Clemson.
Dec 26, 2023, 11:37 AM
[ in reply to I believe you are missing the most important factor with FSU and Clemson. ] |
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The two schools' have a much greater viewership than other ACC schools. So far during the PO system Clemson has brought more shares of the playoff monies that all other ACC schools put together, all Big 10 schools put together and all the PAC and Big 12 teams put together.
Your premise seems to be lacking but I'd rather, for the good of all, see Clemson and FSU in the SEC. Those who think the Big 10 teams get a nice payday might want to consider what the SEC could demand of media rights if it included the addition of Clemson and FSU.
There's also the culture factor. Like it or not, most fans of both schools are southern born. We fit better with the SEC trash than the midwestern trash. Not much but at least SEC fans know the value of grits for breakfast and cornbread for supper.
What you’re missing is that as it stands today, ESPN already holds the broadcast rights to both Clemson’s and FSU’s games. They ain’t paying an extra arm and leg for something they ALREADY have.
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1st Rounder [678]
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Re: I believe you are missing the most important factor with FSU and Clemson.
Dec 26, 2023, 8:50 PM
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True, until they don’t. If the GOR is overturned, or we get out some other way, they no longer own those rights and would pony up. Clearly any B1G or SEC invite, or talk of such, would be predicated on that.
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Standout [207]
TigerPulse: 98%
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Re: Hypothetical question about conference expansion. First,
Dec 25, 2023, 12:01 PM
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Big 10. We’d easily be on par academically and we’d improve their football reputation!
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All-Pro [735]
TigerPulse: 86%
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Re: Hypothetical question about conference expansion. First,
Dec 25, 2023, 1:45 PM
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I suspect we'd be in the lower-middle academically which would be okay. Certainly competitive with most in sports...
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Clemson Sports Icon [57672]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2011
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Re: Hypothetical question about conference expansion. First,
Dec 25, 2023, 12:06 PM
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You underestimate Clemson. I've posted several times on the subject with references to back my viewpoints.
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Valley Protector [1455]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Ummmm.
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Dec 25, 2023, 12:07 PM
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“The SEC has USux which covers all of South Carolina”.
Really? Yep, that’s what I’d watch just because ESPN has it on. Good enough for all you South Carolinians. No need to see the one great team in the state.
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110%er [3673]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Ummmm.
Dec 26, 2023, 8:37 AM
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How much of the in state viewership is because of UofSC vs their opponent when playing UGA, Bama, Tenn, et al?
How many new viewers would Clemson and FSU bring to the SEC? Vs B1G?
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Valley Protector [1455]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Ummmm.
Dec 26, 2023, 10:58 PM
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Would you rather watch USuC vs BAMA, or Clemson vs Bama?
Ppl might tune in for the first quarter of another drubbing of the gamecocks. Then likely watching Clemson.
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All-Pro [735]
TigerPulse: 86%
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Re: Hypothetical question about conference expansion. First,
Dec 25, 2023, 1:37 PM
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Big 10
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Dynasty Maker [3563]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Hypothetical question about conference expansion. First,
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Dec 25, 2023, 3:50 PM
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Best solution for Clemson would be to join the Big10 in football and leave the rest in the ACC. Maintain a rivalry game with SC and one of the ACC schools (GT or NCSt). The Tigers would compete well against the Big10 and be in the 12 team playoff more often than playing in the SEC. Recruiting would still improve in the Big10 vs staying in the ACC or moving to the Big12. Research dollars would get a big boost as part of the Big10 Academic Alliance and eventually gain AAU membership. Good for athletics and academic growth vs SEC. Finally, Clemson would have the entire athletic department in the right spots for the eventual move to a Football Super Conference.
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Rival Killer [2957]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Hypothetical question about conference expansion. First,
Dec 26, 2023, 11:49 PM
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Good points....win-win for the academic and athletic sides. The only thing is I doubt the ACC would allow a partial in or out even though they've done it with ND.
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Ring of Honor [21238]
TigerPulse: 85%
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Re: Hypothetical question about conference expansion. First,
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Dec 25, 2023, 4:32 PM
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Viewing “areas” do not matter anymore. Streaming has no borders. It’s about eyeballs and brand.
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Commissioner [1255]
TigerPulse: 93%
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Re: Hypothetical question about conference expansion. First,
Dec 26, 2023, 3:24 PM
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Yes, streaming does have boarders. You can't watch every game now.
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Ring of Honor [21238]
TigerPulse: 85%
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Re: Hypothetical question about conference expansion. First,
Dec 27, 2023, 12:09 AM
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Yes you can. There’s not a power 5 game you cannot watch if you have a streaming service for the exception of Pac12 because of how crappy availability was for that network. That’s why the conference fell apart.
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Starter [369]
TigerPulse: 77%
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Notre Dame, Clemson, and FSU are the 3 most football programs on the
Dec 25, 2023, 5:36 PM
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expansion sweepstakes. By far. Clemson pulls way more eyeballs than does USuC. Similar to bringing in Texas when they already had Texas A & M, it doesn’t matter if there’s already a team in the state. The SEC or Big 10 would love this to add Clemson’s coveted viewership.
Football is king. Nobody watches UNC and UVA football. They add nothing.
Yet another person confusing a “market” with marketability. You can be in Podunk North Dakota with very little population but it doesn’t matter. What matters is viewership.
Notre Dame, Clemson, and FSU are by far the most coveted programs left. Nobody gives a crap about UNC or UVA football. They add nothing.
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Standout [216]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Re: Hypothetical question about conference expansion. First,
Dec 26, 2023, 3:13 PM
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Clemson should just stay in the ACC and start a steaming channel to make up some of the revenue. If they go to the SEC they might get in the playoffs once in a blue moon.
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Tiger Titan [49969]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I believe its a done deal already & well know when they are ready to release,
Dec 26, 2023, 3:31 PM
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We are SEC bound, I truly believe the deal is already done behind the scenes. They have a plan on when it will be announced and worked into the new playoff system too. Within the next 3 years we will be in the SEC.
We offer everything they look for in a team, our fans are invested & the best & our tradition with playing many of their members for many years.
It wouldn’t surprise me for the announcement to be made in the next 3 months or next 3 years, the plan is in place.
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Orange Elite [5294]
TigerPulse: 93%
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Re: Hypothetical question about conference expansion. First,
Dec 26, 2023, 3:36 PM
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Door #2
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Orange Blooded [2119]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Hypothetical question about conference expansion. First,
Dec 26, 2023, 8:49 PM
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Sorry, I’m not gonna play along. We don’t get a vote, and Clemson’s not gonna get a vote, and Clemson is more than likely not gonna get an invite to either of those two conferences. If Clemson leaves the ACC, the only destination they would end up would be the Big 12.
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Associate AD [841]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Re: Hypothetical question about conference expansion. First,
Dec 26, 2023, 9:26 PM
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I think BIG is probably more likely. It allows them to get a foothold in SEC country and allows FOX to expand in the south.
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