Even losing KJ it's no excuse
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All-TigerNet [10402]
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Even losing KJ it's no excuse
Mar 7, 2015, 6:54 PM
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With all we had that came back from last yr. The team went down all the way across the board. They had a little run of good play at the beginning of ACC play. On a whole this was a bad year all the way around.
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CU Medallion [68113]
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Re: Even losing KJ it's no excuse
Mar 7, 2015, 7:02 PM
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We did better than I thought overall. I expected to win 3 or 4 conf. 2 of 6 after a solid stretch is the concern
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Orange Blooded [2784]
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don't agree
Mar 7, 2015, 7:16 PM
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We are a middle of the road program in our best days. We lose one of the best players we have had in many years and still finished in the middle of a very tough league. A few of our players under-performed this year and it cost us 2-4 games.
No one likes losing but this is about what we are....an 7-10 type team in this conference. Traditionally we are one of the weakest teams but we've proven we can compete with most every team in the ACC.
What do you expect? Yea, I know....."better than this team" right?
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Zealot [868]
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Re: don't agree
Mar 7, 2015, 7:44 PM
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We weren't a middle of the road program during our last coaches tenure.
So it's proven that it can be done.
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1st Rounder [646]
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Re: don't agree
Mar 7, 2015, 8:23 PM
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You most remember OP different than I do. Had one good year and the rest were middle of the road. OP was 138-90 (.605) 50-62 (.446) ACC Seems like a middle of the pack program to me and if my memory is correct those were some down years in the ACC
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: don't agree
Mar 7, 2015, 8:29 PM
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Middle of the row is 4 straight years being ranked in the top 25 at some point and 3 straight NCAA appearances?
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1st Rounder [646]
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Re: don't agree
Mar 7, 2015, 8:45 PM
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It is finishing 9,9,9,8,3,5,5 in a weak ACC. He had one year when in the top and still lost 1st round of tourney as a 5 seed. Just because you were ranked at some point of the year does not make you a top team it is where you finish. It is kind of funny how everyone makes OP something better than he was because before he left Clemson high and dry I remember a bunch of people wanting to get rid of him.
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: don't agree
Mar 7, 2015, 9:04 PM
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Middle of the road teams don't get ranked or make the NCAA. We finished in the top 25 twice, which accounts for 40% of Clemson's top 25 finishes. He successfully built Clemson into a program that consistently won.
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Zealot [868]
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Re: don't agree
Mar 7, 2015, 9:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: don't agree ] |
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Please stop saying the ACC was weak unless you're going to provide facts to support that claim.
Thanks.
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1st Rounder [646]
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OK here are your facts for OP's 3 best years
Mar 7, 2015, 9:30 PM
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2008 4 ACC teams in tourney, only UNC (Final 4) past second round, Clemson a 5 seed loses to 11 seed in first round
2009 7 ACC teams in Tourney, only 3 get past 1st round, Clemson a 7 loses to a 10 UNC wins national title
2010 6 ACC teams in tourney, only 2 make it out of first, Clemson a 7 loses again to a 10, Duke wins championship
Outside of 2 teams (UNC and Duke) the ACC was not that strong
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: OK here are your facts for OP's 3 best years
Mar 7, 2015, 9:35 PM
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By that logic the ACC still is weak:
2011 - 4 teams
2012 - 5 teams
2013 - 4 teams
2014 - 6 teams
No ACC team reaches the Final 4 in any of those years.
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1st Rounder [646]
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Never said the ACC was strong now. Just tired of people
Mar 7, 2015, 9:41 PM
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making OP out to be some kind of great coach. He had one good year and that was it. I think this year the ACC is probably the strongest it has been but that is still only maybe 5 teams and we will not know for sure until the tourney.
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Zealot [868]
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Re: Never said the ACC was strong now. Just tired of people
Mar 8, 2015, 10:15 AM
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ONE GOOD YEAR?
Why do you keep saying this?
The program was in shambles when he got here.
He won 25 games his 4th year and CONTINUED the success.
It wasn't just ONE good year, some would even argue he built the most consistent program ever at Clemson.
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1st Rounder [646]
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Re: Never said the ACC was strong now. Just tired of people
Mar 8, 2015, 1:46 PM
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I think you are blinded by our early season schedule. Yes one good year and even then he lost in the first round to a lower seeded team. I agree the program was not in good shape when he got here and would have been in good shape when he left if he did not quit recruiting. If OP was in such good shape at Clemson why did haul a$$ out of here first chance he got?
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Zealot [868]
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Re: Never said the ACC was strong now. Just tired of people
Mar 8, 2015, 2:31 PM
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Half a million more a year is why he left.
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CU Guru [1099]
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Re: Never said the ACC was strong now. Just tired of people***
Mar 8, 2015, 3:25 PM
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CU Guru [1099]
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Re: Never said the ACC was strong now. Just tired of people***
Mar 8, 2015, 3:26 PM
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His wife would state otherwise.
He still owns a house on lake Keowee fwiw.
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Zealot [868]
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Re: Never said the ACC was strong now. Just tired of people***
Mar 8, 2015, 3:28 PM
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That's heresay.
It's a fact he was given a lengthy contract and $500,000 more a year by Depaul.
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CU Guru [1099]
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Re: Never said the ACC was strong now. Just tired of people***
Mar 8, 2015, 4:18 PM
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For you. For others it's a fact. And a well known one. She didn't try to hide it.
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1st Rounder [646]
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Also did not give Clemson a chance to match. He got the
Mar 8, 2015, 7:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: Never said the ACC was strong now. Just tired of people*** ] |
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offer and bolted. So again why did he want to leave so bad that he did not want a counter offer from Clemson. Surely since he was such a great coach Clemson would have matched
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Zealot [868]
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Re: don't agree
Mar 7, 2015, 8:37 PM
[ in reply to Re: don't agree ] |
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The first few years were a struggle because of the state of the program when he got here but we got better every year until eventually in year 5 we went to the ACC championship and lost by 5 to a UNC team that played for a national title and we made it to the NCAA tournament.
We won 20+ games his last 4 years and went to the dance the last 3.
Those NCAA tournament losses were heartbreakers, especially the first two. I think we were up big in both of those but couldn't make free throws down the stretch and wound up losing.
There were tough losses and everything wasn't honky dory but Clemson basketball was on the map and there was a buzz around the program.
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1st Rounder [646]
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Re: don't agree
Mar 7, 2015, 8:51 PM
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And he bolted and left Clemson with nothing as far as recruiting. I am not saying Brad is the right choice but OP was not as great as you are making him out to be. For the little he accomplished he destroyed when he quit on Clemson that last year. And as the ACC was pretty weak during OP's time
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Legend [19352]
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Re: don't agree
Mar 7, 2015, 8:53 PM
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Skeeter is in love with OP it is quite pathetic.
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Zealot [868]
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Re: don't agree
Mar 7, 2015, 9:00 PM
[ in reply to Re: don't agree ] |
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I think you're wrong about the ACC.
UNC was strong during OP's time.
Other than this year the ACC has been down lately.
I don't like the way he left, but there could be more to the story. It's well known that he was unhappy with the lack of support.
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1st Rounder [646]
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Re: don't agree
Mar 7, 2015, 9:07 PM
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OK you named one team that was strong and that does not make the rest any better (Look at the SEC this year) Just because he was unhappy does not mean you need to quit on the team.
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Zealot [868]
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Re: don't agree
Mar 7, 2015, 9:05 PM
[ in reply to Re: don't agree ] |
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Also, I'm just stating facts.
If that's making him out to be better than he is so be it.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Even losing KJ it's no excuse
Mar 7, 2015, 7:18 PM
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Yea Clemson should be like Duke and UNC and Kentucky they lose players early all the tiem and not miss a beat!
Clemson losing its best player in over half a decade early should not have effected anything at all.
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All-TigerNet [10402]
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Re: Even losing KJ it's no excuse
Mar 7, 2015, 7:38 PM
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KJ was one player and yes we missed him greatly but the rest of this team showed me nothing this season. To go on 10 min scoring droughts every game and just be so bad on the O side of the ball is inexcusable.
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Zealot [868]
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Re: Even losing KJ it's no excuse
Mar 7, 2015, 7:45 PM
[ in reply to Re: Even losing KJ it's no excuse ] |
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We didn't even make the tournament with KJ.
Lol. What does that say?
Where do they get you people with this losing mentality? You sound like a coot.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Even losing KJ it's no excuse
Mar 7, 2015, 8:43 PM
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"losing mentality" yea you are a moron.
I have a Clemson degree and ring something you will never achieve so you can go #### yourself with the Coot thing.
Sorry my nice pledge ends with your coot comment.
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Zealot [868]
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Re: Even losing KJ it's no excuse
Mar 7, 2015, 9:01 PM
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I didn't say you were a coot, I said you sounded like one.
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Zealot [868]
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Re: LOOK who has a coot pulse. Hmmmm.***
Mar 7, 2015, 9:12 PM
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It's ironic the reason my pulse is so low.
5 years ago I posted that OP leaving would be terrible for Clemsom bball and of course I got flamed.
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CU Guru [1404]
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Re: LOOK who has a coot pulse. Hmmmm.***
Mar 7, 2015, 10:14 PM
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Well duh.
Have your coach leave in middle of night.... Have a coach leave who had not really been recruiting g or building strong recruiting relationships... Have your coach leave who had not been developing players' skills... Have a coach leave who had not really set up Clemson for future via lack of redshirting and poor overall evaluation of talent... Have a coach leave late in recruiting cycle so new staff is severely handicapped....
Yes OP leaving was bad for Clemson basketbal .
Was that Captain Obvious or skeeter?
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Zealot [868]
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Re: LOOK who has a coot pulse. Hmmmm.***
Mar 8, 2015, 10:12 AM
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You would think if it was so obvious I wouldn't have been flamed for it.....
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Legend [19352]
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Re: LOOK who has a coot pulse. Hmmmm.***
Mar 7, 2015, 11:46 PM
[ in reply to Re: LOOK who has a coot pulse. Hmmmm.*** ] |
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No your pulse is bad because you are a ###### bag who only shows up after losses.
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CU Guru [1099]
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Re: Even losing KJ it's no excuse
Mar 8, 2015, 10:22 AM
[ in reply to Re: Even losing KJ it's no excuse ] |
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This isn't even about Clemson anymore; it'd about you and a handful of others doing and saying whatever you can to substantiate and uphold your agenda.
It's really NOT Difficult to see. It is, however, sad that your agenda has become more important than your love and support of your schools team.
You will be in an awkward spot and unable to enjoy our future successes (because Brad will be here until HE decides to leave) if you continue on your current path. Trust me - take it from someone who went down that road with our football coach. Just some friendly advice.
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Zealot [868]
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Re: Even losing KJ it's no excuse
Mar 8, 2015, 10:40 AM
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The difference is with Dabo he started proving the naysayers wrong after a couple years.
We are in year 5 with Brownell and we're showing no signs of improvement as a program, at least where it matters and that is in gaining births to the NCAA tournament.
If I didn't pull for this team do you really think I would spend so much time on this board talking about it?
You can be a fan, support the team, and still recognize and be realistic about the state of the program.
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110%er [7122]
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"Brad will be here until he decided to leave"
Mar 8, 2015, 10:53 AM
[ in reply to Re: Even losing KJ it's no excuse ] |
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Seriously, are you on LSD? If you don't get help at Charter, get help somewhere.
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Zealot [868]
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And FYI
Mar 8, 2015, 10:57 AM
[ in reply to Re: Even losing KJ it's no excuse ] |
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Just because you were stupid about Dabo doesn't mean everybody who isn't sold on Brownell is an idiot.
It is strange though because I remember a couple of the other posters that are high on Brownell also were also big critics of Dabo.
Drewtiger03 and CM Shack if I'm not mistaken.
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CU Guru [1099]
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Re: And FYI
Mar 8, 2015, 12:56 PM
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Fyi- that's because Brownell actually coaches. He will be fine. Dabo took over a Lamborghini. BB inherited a pinto.
And yes - OP had success, but what he left and the recruiting ties were severely damaged. Took 3 years to recover from lack of recruiting. Huge difference.
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Zealot [868]
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Re: And FYI
Mar 8, 2015, 1:07 PM
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Any time there is a coaching change there is a transition period in recruiting.
Look at Dabo's first class- 12 recruits. And he did not inherit a lamborghini, that's laughable.
Stop blaming OP for Brownell's lack of recruiting skills.
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All-TigerNet [14488]
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False
Mar 7, 2015, 8:32 PM
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KJ was a leading scorer and cornerstone on both ends of the ball. The other guys are great role players, but not able to step in and fill that void
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Legend [18758]
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KJ leaving was worth 5-6 of the teams losses.
Mar 7, 2015, 8:34 PM
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Hard to replace a guy like him.
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CU Guru [1404]
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Re: Even losing KJ it's no excuse
Mar 7, 2015, 10:07 PM
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Your posts show a unrealistic and uninformed opinion/knowledge of basketball and Clemson basketball. KJ was a leader and would have bee a senior + leader. As a JR he led Clemson in how many categories?
Losing a KJ in basketball is like losing 2 or 3 very significant leaders and stars on both offense and defense in football. Clemson has no depth of talent to make up for loss ofa KJ.
What is and would be Clemson football without DW4?
Who and what type of real talent did Clemson return? A bunch of 4 and 5 stars?
Was Clemson loaded on offense? Heck no.
People need to see and understand what is really achievable and what is available. Then they should make judgements and have expectations based on what is real vs what is wished for.
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All-In [48078]
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True to an extent...
Mar 7, 2015, 10:14 PM
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It's obviously a huge loss. It is a good excuse for not being as good. I don't think there are any quality college programs that live and die by one player sticking around all 4 years though. He played 3 years and that's solid. We just didn't recruit well for his loss. Sub par recruiting is what happened.
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CU Guru [1404]
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Re: True to an extent...
Mar 7, 2015, 10:32 PM
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Another obvious statement.
So is recruiting a chicken and egg thing?
Must you win first to get recruits or recruit greater people to win?
When has Clemson ever recruited at a consistently high level in basketball? Maybe the 70s or 80s?
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All-In [48078]
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Re: True to an extent...
Mar 7, 2015, 10:46 PM
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Consistently better than now? I guess the Cliff Eliis years, Barnes years, and the OP years. I have only been really into Clemson hoops since Cliff Ellis. I have only seen the recruiting this bad under Shyatt and CBB. I was playing golf with a current University of Florida assistant basketball coach, Matt Mcall, and he told me how tough of a job CBB has recruiting to Clemson. This is as bad or almost as bad as I have seen it though. I am not saying CBB can work miracles. I think CBB is just going to have to keep attempting to develop players and hope the new arena make his job easier.
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110%er [6692]
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Re: True to an extent...
Mar 7, 2015, 10:35 PM
[ in reply to True to an extent... ] |
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We will never be able to recruit for basketball like we can for football and baseball.
Our program doesn't have the ability to lose a player of KJ's caliber early.
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All-In [48078]
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I think we can do better though.
Mar 7, 2015, 10:48 PM
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I am sure you do as well. All it takes is to catch lightning in a bottle a couple straight years with a renovated arena and the culture may change. Easier said than done I know.
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