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Ultimate Tiger [35932]
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Let's be blunt here: when you have millionaires who strap on the shoulder pads
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Sep 22, 2025, 11:01 AM
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who simply don't care, you can't win. Zero accountability. An inept coaching staff. There is zero pressure for them to perform. Ex-players see it. Fans see it. Talking heads see it.
I saw it against Troy. I saw it again against GT/Cuse. I've seen enough.
I don't think we get past 4 wins this year---and that's being generous.
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Tiger Titan [51053]
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Doesn't seem to be a problem for Ohio State.***
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Sep 22, 2025, 11:03 AM
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Ultimate Tiger [35932]
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Re: Doesn't seem to be a problem for Ohio State.***
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Sep 22, 2025, 11:04 AM
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Maybe because their guys care. FSU's guys seem to care. Miami's guys seem to care. Our guys don't. Something is just off with this team.
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Tiger Titan [51053]
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That's what I'm saying. Your premise is flawed.
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Sep 22, 2025, 11:05 AM
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If the guys don't care, it's not because they're making NIL cash. It's because the coaching staff isn't getting them to where they need to be.
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Ultimate Tiger [35932]
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Re: That's what I'm saying. Your premise is flawed.
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Sep 22, 2025, 11:06 AM
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OK, then riddle me this: How come FSU's guys are suddenly great given that they have (essentially) the same staff as their 2-9 team??
I don't think it's entirely on the staff....though I do believe the friends & family b.s. is deeply flawed.
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Rival Killer [2790]
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Re: That's what I'm saying. Your premise is flawed.
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Sep 22, 2025, 11:12 AM
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FSU has a new OC and DC. But still yes they have their players bought in now versus last year.
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Ultimate Tiger [35932]
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Re: That's what I'm saying. Your premise is flawed.
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Sep 22, 2025, 11:13 AM
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Exactly. So you can't blame the head coach. They are still a team full of mercenaries. But they play hard. Something just doesn't add up at Clemson.
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Orange Blooded [2175]
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Re: That's what I'm saying. Your premise is flawed.
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Sep 22, 2025, 11:37 AM
[ in reply to Re: That's what I'm saying. Your premise is flawed. ] |
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To be frank, it seems this program as a whole is an unserious program. Based on performance, there's no way you can spin it to the players taking this seriously like a job, save for a very small minority.
Either the staff is coaching this gross ineptitude or they allow it. No other way of looking at it
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Ring of Honor [23113]
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FSU OC Gus Malzahn knows more about Offense
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Sep 22, 2025, 12:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: That's what I'm saying. Your premise is flawed. ] |
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OK, then riddle me this: How come FSU's guys are suddenly great given that they have (essentially) the same staff as their 2-9 team??
I don't think it's entirely on the staff....though I do believe the friends & family b.s. is deeply flawed.
Than Dabo, Chad Morris, Jeff Scott and Tony Elliott put together. It's his Offense. He created it, and he's continued to develop and upgrade the Offense through the years. He's not the recruiter, organizer and motivator that Dabo was in his prime, but Malzahn knows Offense and it's paying off for FSU. Clemson continues to run a hybrid of the circa 2015 Malzahn Offense version 2.0 that Dabo understands while FSU is running Malzahn Offense version 15.0.
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Re: That's what I'm saying. Your premise is flawed.
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Sep 22, 2025, 11:07 AM
[ in reply to That's what I'm saying. Your premise is flawed. ] |
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There’s also the possibility those guys know they can be replaced. Our guys know they’re the senior guys, they know theirs no depth that transferred in behind them, and they know that no transfers are coming the next year to potentially take their spots.
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Ultimate Tiger [35932]
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Re: That's what I'm saying. Your premise is flawed.
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Sep 22, 2025, 11:09 AM
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I believe the lack of depth---which is a big issue for us, translates into a lack of fear in losing their starting jobs, has a lot to do with it.
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110%er [3842]
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Ultimate Tiger [35932]
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Re: Doesn't seem to be a problem for Ohio State.***
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Sep 22, 2025, 11:15 AM
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LOL....I'll take that bet. Seriously. How much???!??!?!??!
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Freshman [10]
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Rival Killer [2790]
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Re: Doesn't seem to be a problem for Ohio State.***
Sep 22, 2025, 11:48 AM
[ in reply to Re: Doesn't seem to be a problem for Ohio State.*** ] |
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Clemson can't even beat Syracuse as a 17 point favorite. How are they going to beat Louisville and FSU? I'm a fan but I have eyes too.
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Game Day Hero [4192]
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Game Changer [2061]
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Re: Doesn't seem to be a problem for Ohio State.***
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Sep 22, 2025, 11:21 AM
[ in reply to Re: Doesn't seem to be a problem for Ohio State.*** ] |
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All the players at there's other schools that you mention get paid nil money as well. That contradicts your argument.
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Ultimate Tiger [35932]
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Re: Doesn't seem to be a problem for Ohio State.***
Sep 22, 2025, 11:24 AM
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Then it can be only one of two things: A) We have recruited the wrong guys or B) We have bad coaching.
I'm leaning towards A) simply because you can see things working at Miami and FSU. FSU's turnaround is nothing short of remarkable. So in their case, it isn't coaching.
https://x.com/atxlete/status/1969556986749731037
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Hall of Famer [8532]
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Re: Doesn't seem to be a problem for Ohio State.***
Sep 22, 2025, 12:39 PM
[ in reply to Re: Doesn't seem to be a problem for Ohio State.*** ] |
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It’s because the head coach is no longer serious about winning. You cannot fill a staff with your friends and family and expect people to take you seriously. The players aren’t dumb either.
A long time ago I worked for a large company whose owner died and the son took over and started hiring all of his college buddies. The company went from making $15 million a year in profit, to losing money in just a couple of years.
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Walk-On [71]
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Re: Doesn't seem to be a problem for Ohio State.***
Sep 22, 2025, 12:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: Doesn't seem to be a problem for Ohio State.*** ] |
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Small factor, but FSU and Miami are fighting for their relevance back which helps with motivation. We have the opposite problem in some respects. We are fighting to get back to the peak but we have maintained some success along the way so maybe our flame isn’t burning as brightly.
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1st Rounder [663]
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Re: Doesn't seem to be a problem for Ohio State.***
Sep 22, 2025, 11:31 AM
[ in reply to Doesn't seem to be a problem for Ohio State.*** ] |
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the difference is Dabo doesn't get rid of players for lack of performance. In the past, that was ok. But now, they are getting paid. It is not a problem at Ohio State, because the use the portal and the loyalty to the student does not exist. With the new NIL, it is all business.... Dabo needs to update his system.
He was an excellent coach under the old system. A player needed to sit down a year before playing somewhere if they transfer. Unfortunately, Dabo thought he could apply the old system with todays environment, and it does not work.
he is loyal to his players... He is proud his players do not transfer (even though they can).... so he protects them... if Cade is bad... he does not go get another QB... he is loyal.. but now Cade is getting $$$
he needs to adapt.. but does he want to work in that new system?.. coach Saban retired for that same reason... he did not want to work under the new NIL system.
Dabo should not be fired. He is a legacy at Clemson. Use another "label" to change him... but he should not be fired. he has done too many good things for Clemson. He was hired under the old system.. maybe he is not a good fit for NIL.
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Game Day Hero [4192]
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Clemson does not have $15M per year to drop on 5-star
Sep 22, 2025, 12:53 PM
[ in reply to Doesn't seem to be a problem for Ohio State.*** ] |
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…athletes that no one knows if they can pan out.
Then, add in the additional $15M to keep or get from the portal. Plus, the additional $15M to keep the guys that have already agreed to play for Clemson.
The present system is heavily biased to the wealthiest institutions.
Dabo has to let go of this notion these guys are student athletes. They are not.
The player payroll has to be managed as the no-rules system that it is.
The present system is not designed to fit a coach like Swinney who has a conscience and moral base for what college football was originally instituted for.
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Oculus Spirit [43626]
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Re: Let's be blunt here: when you have millionaires who strap on the shoulder pads
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Sep 22, 2025, 11:12 AM
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An interesting thing, everyone is pizzed off that he didn't dive into NIL. But now that we are, we pick him apart for having hired guns. Not at all implying you said that. But it is a ###### if you do ###### if you don't situation.
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Ultimate Tiger [35932]
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Re: Let's be blunt here: when you have millionaires who strap on the shoulder pads
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Sep 22, 2025, 11:16 AM
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Even more interesting, is that our best player on defense is a portal guy (Heldt). I could make the argument that Tristan Smith is also our most physical receiver (plays with the most effort).
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Head Coach [943]
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Re: Let's be blunt here: when you have millionaires who strap on the shoulder pads
Sep 22, 2025, 11:22 AM
[ in reply to Re: Let's be blunt here: when you have millionaires who strap on the shoulder pads ] |
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Can we stop doing the all in Chips now? Best is no longer the standard. Mediocre is a stretch goal. The donations for next year are going to drop as will ticket sales. Once the seats empty and the money dries up some decisions will have to be made. Pretty obvious the culture thing and constant chatter about it doesn't translate to anything positive. As Woodaz said, he's tired of hearing about past success and is/was concerned about this team. It's a small dumpster fire but will grow to an inferno next season.
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Ultimate Tiger [34465]
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There's plenty of NFL Millionaires that seem to care...
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Sep 22, 2025, 11:20 AM
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🙄🙄🙄
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Ultimate Tiger [35932]
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Re: There's plenty of NFL Millionaires that seem to care...
Sep 22, 2025, 11:26 AM
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Exactly. So have we recruited "low character" guys who simply don't give a sh*t ?? And there are big $$ NIL guys at Miami and FSU who seem to care......I would hate to think that we have that type of player at Clemson....but here we are.
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Head Coach [943]
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Re: There's plenty of NFL Millionaires that seem to care...
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Sep 22, 2025, 11:55 AM
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Exactly. So have we recruited "low character" guys who simply don't give a sh*t ?? And there are big $$ NIL guys at Miami and FSU who seem to care......I would hate to think that we have that type of player at Clemson....but here we are.
Our players character is no worse than any other NIL player. How would you feel as a player when you look around and see 3 Swinneys on the sideline, and one trotting out to hold for extra points? Most teams use a back up QB so that fake FG's can come into play. We have not had that threat in about 7 years. Can you believe that CS is on Scholarship? Incredible. He would not start at Anderson Univerity. It's a big joke to many of the players. I have talked to many about this dynamic as Dabo did not invent it, but did take it to a whole different level.
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Tiger Titan [51053]
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Players will only take their effort as seriously as the coach takes his.
Sep 22, 2025, 11:58 AM
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And hiring his boys along with a fat toddler to coach the DEF doesn't exactly scream "I take my job seriously."
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Campus Hero [13771]
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Top TigerNet [32040]
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It's not just the money.
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Sep 22, 2025, 11:56 AM
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As mentioned other teams are playing well with millionairre guys on the field.
I don't know that the problem is, but it is definitely real. And it is Dabo's responsibility to diagnose the problem, prescribe the cure and then implement it.
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Campus Hero [13771]
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Re: It's not just the money.
Sep 22, 2025, 12:05 PM
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You are exactly right Bret. No one knows what the problem is better than Dabo and it is his job to fix it. Let's see if he can.
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CU Guru [1555]
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I don't think it's all about the $$$$$
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Sep 22, 2025, 12:09 PM
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There is most definitely an attitude issue going on here. But as others have said, I don't think it directly relates to NIL, since there are plenty of other schools that appear to not have this problem. I don't think NIL helps, but it's not the root cause.
I think the issue is this team is no longer buying in to what Dabo is selling and I'm not sure why. These kids aren't stupid, so maybe it's because they realize the people making thousands and even millions to coach them have the same amount or less coaching experience than Little Johnny's dad who coached them in youth league. Granted I don't know the new rules regarding walk-ons and if they are allowed or not allowed or such, but maybe they're wondering why we have a scholarship holder and why that person is the coaches son instead of using a backup QB or receiver or something. Or maybe, they just all drank the kool-aid in the offseason and think every team should just roll over and surrender.
I don't know what the cause is, and really none of us do. But what I do know is that nothing is going to get fixed the right people start feeling the heat. I don't necessarily mean fire Dabo, but he's got to somehow feel pressure. Maybe that's the powers that be pulling him into a room and saying "you don't have a choice, these are the people that will no longer have jobs at the end of the season". And then letting him know that all replacements will be properly vetted by someone other than Dabo before they are passed along to the BOT for approval. It also means saying "screw your feelings" it doesn't matter who you are, how long you've been here, and what NIL deals you have if you don't perform you don't play.
Anyway, all of that is easy for me to sit here and say. We all know the issues run deep and just like any serious illness, I'm afraid the "cure for what ails us" is going to hurt as much or more.
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Paw Warrior [4919]
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Re: Let's be blunt here: when you have millionaires who strap on the shoulder pads
Sep 22, 2025, 12:12 PM
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It is simple human psychology. Are you going to be more devoted to a company that just hired you for $2 million per year or one you worked for for free who begrudgingly gave you a somewhat similar dollar figure mostly out of peer pressure to keep you from leaving? The latter case feels entitled and victimized, the former feels like they need to prove themselves.
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Valley Legend [12425]
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In this situation (high paid players) i think you can lose the players attention
Sep 22, 2025, 12:47 PM
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IN A HURRY when things go bad.
Our whole season was built around the LSU game - many of the players have just said "fudge it" since then.
I think this happened to FSU last year.
I was semi-watching the FSU-Bama game earlier this year and I felt like I saw the Bama players quit in that game (specifically, defenders jogging in "pursuit").
I didn't watch the Illinois/Indiana game on Sat, but I'll bet Illinois quit at some point during that game.
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Ultimate Tiger [35179]
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can i have your tickets?***
Sep 22, 2025, 2:09 PM
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Athletic Dir [1168]
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Re: Let's be blunt here: when you have millionaires who strap on the shoulder pads
Sep 22, 2025, 2:11 PM
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Other programs seem to be able to pay players AND get results...why can't Clemson? The problem is greater than disspassionate players. The problem has become cultural.
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Valley Protector [1427]
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In addition to the money
Sep 22, 2025, 2:14 PM
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how motivated do they need to be when there’s no competition behind them to threaten their job?
In all honesty, if Dabo is gonna live by the mantra of developing h.s. talent over 4 years, he has to at least recruit decent high school talent. Our recruiting over the past 5 years has flamed out. Decommitments, choosing other Power 5 schools over us after stringing us along, and then filling the other 20 or so slots with legacies and fall backs. It doesn’t tale a guru to see that our recent classes are no better than those of the mid tier ACC teams.
Throw in no concern of portal transfers coming in hungry for your job, plus the friends and family aspect. How serious are you going to be when your locker room is filled with 40 or 50 Daniel H.S. buddies, family friends, coaches sons, Alabama 2-A “superstars, etc. and others riding the Dabo gravy train instead of playing Division III where they should be?
If Dabo doesn’t go, there needs to be a complete tear down and Neff needs to require all hires, from the janitor to the OC to be approved by the BOT with written justification as to why that person is the best for the job. No family hires within the football program period,
even indirect reports. All current positions (especially analysts) should have detailed job descriptions as to why they are necessary.
The whole thing will be interesting to watch.
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