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Replies: 25
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Ring of Honor [21333]
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Depth chart shows the massive gulf between the programs
Nov 19, 2018, 6:07 PM
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https://www.tigernet.com/update/Clemson-vs-South-Carolina-depth-charts-released-31586
You might notice something about Muschamp's depth chart at South Carolina: it goes exactly one guy deep.
Clemson's looks like the phone book. There's often three and sometimes even four guys at each position.
Both coaches mean it. And it says everything about each program.
Dabo lists the guys who he thinks have relevance and will play and contribute. He puts it "that these guys have earned the right to play." And he duly plays them, despite the fact that it's an added layer of complication to divvy up the snaps among all these guys, to pick who goes out and when and in what situation. It's a lot to figure out. Early on in the season it definitely hurts continuity, and it often results in a lot of "clunkiness" and a whole heap of new-player mistakes as a boatload of new faces get integrated into the mix.
By November, though, such kinks are usually worked out...and Clemson is rolling 65+ guys at you a game, guys who have seen significant snaps and who can take a significant portion of the load. And if a guy gets hurt, you barely notice, because his subs step in seamlessly...and then that guy gets an actual chance to heal up, because you're not compelled to band-aid him and throw him in because you just don't have anyone else. And you don't tend to have a lot of guys hurt anyhow, because the wear and tear is spread out across your 3-deep.
At Carolina, on the other hand, the message Muschamp sends is very clear: you're either a starter...or you're nothing. There's a hierarchy, a caste system, winners and losers, haves-and-have-nots. The entire onus is on win-win-win that starting gig, however you have to do it. The guy in the locker next to you wants your job, your glory, your place among the winners. So crush him, cut his throat, and destroy him...or you're the loser. Great way to build team morale there, Champ.
You watch a Carolina game, you still see a team that plays maybe 35 guys outside of special teams (if that), and by the end of the season, you see a beat-up team that's limping to the finish. They're missing a ton of guys from their secondary...senior S Steven Montac has barely played or practiced the past month, along with S's JT Ibe and Nick Harvey, and CB Jamyest Williams. DL's Bryson Allen-Williams and Aaron Sterling are out, and Javon Kinlaw has been carrying a hip injury and sat out most of the Chattanooga game. RB AJ Turner had a quad contusion against Chattanooga and Rico Dowdle and Ty'Son Williams are both banged up and sat out. They're also missing WR's Ortre Smith, and Shi Smith is banged up as well, though they're still listing him as a starter.
I continue to just shake my head at this. How the heck are your starters supposed to stay healthy if they're tracking to play 800+ snaps apiece? How the heck are your other guys going to get better - and stay engaged - if you don't play them? How are the benchwarmers supposed to do anything but mill around sullenly and hate life? I looked in vain for a Gamecock participation chart but it probably doesn't matter much. I did find an interesting link on BigSpur listing the number of players - just 41! - who actually appeared in the team's opening four games, and that includes guys like kickers and long snappers.
The Gamecocks aren't just out-talented this Saturday. They're outnumbered, badly. Each Gamecock starter is going to have waves of good players coming at them, and we've seen repeatedly...by the middle of the second quarter, they're wilting.
As they say, there's a reason God tends to be on the side of the big battalions.
Well, nevermind. If Muschamp wants to keep trying it this way, he's more than welcome. But it seems increasingly obvious how it ends up playing out on the field.
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Paw Master [17718]
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Re: Depth chart shows the massive gulf between the programs
Nov 19, 2018, 6:13 PM
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Great analysis as usual Q!
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Gridiron Giant [15224]
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The rewards are worth the challenges to get guys in.
Nov 19, 2018, 6:17 PM
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I think it's awesome, the philosophy Dabo has brought to the program.
What we are really seeing this year is the depth and plan coming to fruition in a big way. I'm convinced our 2nd team would have been 9-2 or 8-3 by themselves.
With several key players coming back, and several young players with a year under the belt, we're seeing the bast backups ever at Clemson.
Notable upsides to playing more guys....
- Guys are more engaged and focused in their weekly prep.
- Guys come into games fresh, with something to prove. And, for a few snaps can really impose their will, then rested 1st team guys came back in and do more the same. This is wearing down opponents big time starting the 3rd qtr.
- Game experience is insanely valuable for late season and next year's development.
- Rotation also slows down the wear and tear on their bodies.
While we will lose a lot of players this year, the drop off won't be nearly as realized b/c of the playing time the guys got this year, coupled with more amazing recruiting classes.
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Clemson Icon [27660]
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Re: Depth chart shows the massive gulf between the programs
Nov 19, 2018, 6:29 PM
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Can’t argue with any of that. Don’t think for a moment that doesn’t figure into recruiting good players. Good players come to Clemson and play .... and win! And have success. And receive a meaningful diploma. And become a part of something big that isn’t going away. Go Tigers
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Dynasty Maker [3388]
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uSC, this is the 1st and 2nd quarters
Nov 19, 2018, 8:33 PM
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depth chart. There will be more.
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Freshman [10]
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Re: Depth chart shows the massive gulf between the programs
Nov 19, 2018, 7:05 PM
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Muschamp only lists one player at each position on our depth chart because the roster is so thin there’s really only one guy who should play. We are down 5-6 safeties and are now playing a non-scholarship walk on at that spot. And idk what ur talking about as far as not playing guys, Carolina has been one of the top in the nation in starts by freshman since Muschamp got here. Also ur injury list is wrong multiple times but FAR from complete... :/
Unfortunately due to it being at Clemson, the talent gap, and our injury depleted defense and backfield the game likely won’t be close again. Which is a shame as it just makes u numb to the rivalry which is lame and takes the fun out of it. It will get better tho once we get another year or two to build depth.
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Clemson Icon [27660]
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Re: Depth chart shows the massive gulf between the programs
Nov 19, 2018, 7:15 PM
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Looking at his past, do you think your coach will be able to turn your program around as quickly as the fans want him too? Muschamps hasn’t proven to be a big winner at his past stops. Has he?
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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Orange Beast [6535]
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Tiger Spirit [9766]
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@stp - re: "numb to the rivalry..." for a lot of us who have
Nov 19, 2018, 7:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: Depth chart shows the massive gulf between the programs ] |
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been exposed to the trash talk by coots for decades, we will never be numb to the rivalry. We hate the coots, would pull for the Iranian national team against you and always savor every touchdown by every team that is scored against you.
Most of all we love nothing more (except maybe the nattys) than beating you.
This isn't personal against you, it just is.
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Freshman [10]
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Re: Depth chart shows the massive gulf between the programs
Nov 19, 2018, 7:09 PM
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also ur take on how a GAME WEEK depth chart is released is linked to culture is GOOFY ???????? big conspiracy guy huh
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Ring of Honor [21333]
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Re: Depth chart shows the massive gulf between the programs
Nov 19, 2018, 7:32 PM
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also ur take on how a GAME WEEK depth chart is released is linked to culture is GOOFY ???????? big conspiracy guy huh
"Big conspiracy guy huh"...and a lot of emoticons. Not exactly the most eloquent rebuttal, but hey.
Yeah, it's linked to culture. MUSCHAMP DOESN'T PLAY HIS GUYS. Some coaches just focus on the starters and ignore everybody else, deliberately seem to create this caste system on their own team...and Muschamp is definitely one of them. Listing a single dude at each position is just plain insulting to the other players on the roster. And if you look at the number of players he uses per game, it's down there with guys like Bobby Petrino, (formerly) of Louisville. Petrino didn't play much of his roster either.
Last year, Jake Bentley was the only QB on the roster who completed a pass for Carolina. The whole "but nobody else was any good" arguments doesn't seem to hold much water, because when pressed in this year, Michael Scarnecchia actually looked middlin' decent against Mizzou, and looked like he might be better than that with some experience...which he has never gotten since. And I guess we'll never know...because he's a 5th-year guy and will be gone at the conclusion of this year. Up until the 2018 he had completed all of one pass in a live game...all the way back in 2015.
That's nuts.
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Freshman [10]
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Re: Depth chart shows the massive gulf between the programs
Nov 19, 2018, 8:08 PM
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my man I don’t think you grasp the fact that if we don’t play the only 22 guys on the roster capable of winning we will not win any games. Why list a 2-3 deep when one guy is going to be listed as the primary backup at three spots and those second and third string guys are kids redshirting and walk ons.
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Solid Orange [1326]
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No chance SCar has 22 guys capable of winning***
Nov 20, 2018, 2:24 PM
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Rival Killer [2868]
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Re: Depth chart shows the massive gulf between the programs
Nov 19, 2018, 7:15 PM
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because Muschump is having to activate a walk-on at safety to go 2-deep.
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Orange Blooded [2521]
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Their success has historically been placed....
Nov 19, 2018, 7:32 PM
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...on the shoulders of their resident "savior" "superstars" of the time, George Rogers, Lattimore, Shaw, Pharoh, now Deebo, etc. They have had some middling success by working these people into the dirt but not long term, consistent success.
Ever since Rogers brought home the Heisman, the true Coot believers have thought surely there is another singleton "savior" just around the corner...and it seems to permeate the coaching and playing philosophy there...play only the first string, best you have as long as you can.
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Orange Elite [5220]
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Re: Depth chart shows the massive gulf between the programs
Nov 19, 2018, 7:45 PM
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Talk about inventing a narrative based on depth chart listing backups and the other only listing starters.
Message was edited by: Classof09®
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Oculus Spirit [44261]
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You don’t have to invent a narrative when you’ve outscored a team 90-17 the last two years.
Nov 19, 2018, 7:48 PM
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Especially when the 17 Points were garbage time points. The massive gulf is real. Welcome to reality.
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Orange Elite [5220]
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Re: You don’t have to invent a narrative when you’ve outscored a team 90-17 the last two years.
Nov 19, 2018, 7:51 PM
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I'm not really sure how the game score is relevant to the OP.
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Oculus Spirit [44261]
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If you can’t see it now you will Saturday night.***
Nov 19, 2018, 7:52 PM
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Orange Elite [5220]
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Re: How is listing only starters considered a “depth chart”?
Nov 19, 2018, 8:31 PM
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After looking at it, it doesn't even look like it's a released depth chart from USC.
It looks like it's just our starters from the UT-C game.
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TigerNet Elite [69055]
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Paw Master [17571]
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Commissioner [1233]
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Based on the opposing views, do those other guys call it a
Nov 19, 2018, 8:00 PM
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“Starter Chart”? “Depth Charter” is a misnomer when it’s only one.
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Legend [6771]
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Re: Depth chart shows the massive gulf between the programs
Nov 19, 2018, 8:23 PM
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Quality post!
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Replies: 25
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