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1st Rounder [617]
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Dabo vs Adapting
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Jul 8, 2024, 7:41 PM
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The subjects of Dabo and the transfer portal should and need to be viewed as related but separate topics. My opinion of Dabo and his legacy has not, nor will it ever change. He deserves a statue and the adulation of all Clemson fans for his achievements. However, wishing to see greater implementation of the transfer portal and NIL does not make us by default make us "haters" of Dabo. Additionally, no one person is greater than the team as a whole. I cannot understand the argument that losing with Dabo is a better alternative that adapting to the current state of college football. A 9 win program with zero hope of a national title was the state of the team that led to Dabo being hired as head coach in the first place. If, and this is still a big 'if', we continue to slide out of relevance in the playoff era are we not then returning to the type of program Dabo saved us from in the first place? Would that not make Dabo the mirror image of the man he replaced?
Dabo is great, his legacy has surpassed that of even Danny Ford in Clemson lore. All great coaches hit a plateau where they must step back and evaluate. I just hope we are still on the plateau and currently in the evaluation stage, and not sliding down from the top.
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Clemson Sports Icon [58668]
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Re: Dabo vs Adapting
Jul 8, 2024, 8:24 PM
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Mu opinion is, Dabo should have the keys to the main entrance of Clemson!!!
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Tiger Spirit [9265]
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Re: Dabo vs Adapting
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Jul 8, 2024, 9:04 PM
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This post is inaccurate on so many levels. Tommy Bowden did not create a winning culture at Clemson. Dabo Swinney corrected that. Dabo recruits better than Tommy Bowden and 99% of the active coaches in college football currently.
I think some people are assuming that if Dabo doesn't use the portal that we will not be a national title contender anymore. That's categorically false because Dabo is hiring the right staff and recruiting the right players from high school. The portal isn't necessarily required at this point.
Sure, we could have burned a scholarship on a player that is only looking for a quick payout from a NIL package, but Dabo has built a culture that is not consistent with that scheme nor is it compatible. In fact, it is contradictory to what Dabo and CLEMSON stands for.
Other coaches over sign classes, send out hundreds of offers if not more, and Dabo Swinney only sends out offers for who he needs. Then there are target recruits that Dabo wants and Clemson ends up with about 85% of the target offers even in the down seasons. If that is the case, then why use the portal and burn a scholarship on a young man who will only be on the team for a season?
The sport of college football is in the beginning stages of NIL and transfer portal madness. Things may seem great in this honeymoon phase right now, but when the system begins to collapse many of these programs are going to face irreparable damage to their future. Dabo won't have to change a thing because we didn't adapt to paying players in the portal to come and play for one year at Clemson. Any player worth recruiting from the portal comes with an expensive NIL price tag. I would much rather offer NIL money to a player who is ALL-IN 110% and worthy to touch Howard's Rock.
Wait until players begin suing schools because they didn't get what they were promised by a coach. Oh wait, that is already happening to Billy Napier at Florida. Wait until you see players sit out games because they didn't get what they demanded. Oh wait, that is already happening at Florida State. A team where more than 70% of the starters from last year were recruited from the portal and paid healthy sums of money to play at Florida State. They have zero loyalty to the program and whenever the cards were down, they rolled over on the team, the school, and the fans. Wait until envy and jealousy creates division in the locker room. Oh wait, that's already happening at Colorado with Coach Prime. It's a big reason why their season collapsed after winning 4 games. Wait until a school spends millions of dollars recruiting more than 10 5* recruits and lose so many games that the head coach is fired. Oh wait, that's already happened at Texas A&M.
Loyalty means everything in this world and if a player isn't loyal to Clemson, then I don't want his filthy hands on Howard's Rock. It's quite that simple. If we have to pay a player to come to Clemson, then good riddance and good luck. If a player wants to come to Clemson and EARN NIL money, then I am all for it. Most of these players in the portal haven't proven anything to cost $700,000 or in some cases $1.3MM. It just isn't worth the investment. What is worth the investment is recruiting a player from high school, building a relationship, developing that player to not only be a great player on the field, but a solid member of society whenever he leaves Clemson with a degree.
AN OFFER FROM CLEMSON.... IT JUST MEANS MORE. GO TIGERS!
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1st Rounder [617]
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Re: Dabo vs Adapting
Jul 8, 2024, 9:31 PM
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Fair points. I didn't intend to insinuate the Bowden created Clemsons culture. I started at Clemson at the end of Bowdens run, obviously parting ways was best. As for how much a Clemson offer means, let's disect that. As a proud Alumni it means a ton to me. As a high school recruit with no ties to the University, it means less. If we continue on a course of mediocrity that offers non monetary value will only continue to diminish. The prestige of a Clemson offer declines with each season we underperform. Add in the fact we a a founding member of a conference we are currently trying to leave, while being at a significant financial disadvantage and the cards are no longer in our favor. Additionally, we are a smaller public university with a smaller alumni footprint. I love my Alma Mater, but if I was a recruit being offered life altering money, love may no longer outweigh business. Like it or not Clemson football is the engine that drives our entire athletic department (and in many ways Campus life as a whole.) Dabos method only works as long as the results as up to par. Continuing to lose 3-4 games a year is not going to cut it. Maybe I'm wrong, heck, I hope I'm wrong. Artificially limiting the program to a set of rules nobody else is playing by is hurting the program.
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Tiger Spirit [9265]
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Re: Dabo vs Adapting
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Jul 8, 2024, 9:55 PM
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Fair points. I didn't intend to insinuate the Bowden created Clemsons culture. I started at Clemson at the end of Bowdens run, obviously parting ways was best. As for how much a Clemson offer means, let's disect that. As a proud Alumni it means a ton to me. As a high school recruit with no ties to the University, it means less. If we continue on a course of mediocrity that offers non monetary value will only continue to diminish. The prestige of a Clemson offer declines with each season we underperform. Add in the fact we a a founding member of a conference we are currently trying to leave, while being at a significant financial disadvantage and the cards are no longer in our favor. Additionally, we are a smaller public university with a smaller alumni footprint. I love my Alma Mater, but if I was a recruit being offered life altering money, love may no longer outweigh business. Like it or not Clemson football is the engine that drives our entire athletic department (and in many ways Campus life as a whole.) Dabos method only works as long as the results as up to par. Continuing to lose 3-4 games a year is not going to cut it. Maybe I'm wrong, heck, I hope I'm wrong. Artificially limiting the program to a set of rules nobody else is playing by is hurting the program.
Again, you're missing the point here. There is not a non-monetary Value at Clemson. Clemson in in the Top 10 for NIL packages. The catch is that a player must come in an earn it. We want the player that is willing to earn it. The current NIL model is unsustainable and it's only a matter of time before it all collapses. Whenever it does, Clemson will rise up from the ashes and take over college football. Anyone with any real business acumen will see that the current model for transfer portal recruits and NIL is a complete waste of money, or at the very least, not worth the risk. Dabo has never expressed his displeasure with NIL. He has only stated that he is happy with who they recruit, and I do not blame him because he's right 90% of the time. There have been many underrated recruits play for Clemson on Saturday that are now playing on Sunday. No NIL or Transfer Portal is going to change that. So, why exploit 18-year-olds with promises that you may or may not be able to deliver on? That's how you end up in a civil action.
To your point, let us examine why we lost 3-4 games. One aspect comes to mind and that is... BALL SECURITY. That's not on Dabo or any other coach. You can coach ball security but if the player doesn't execute then the coaching is worthless. Clemson would have won the ACC if it weren't for poor ball security. Now, all Clemson has to do is execute ball security and Clemson is in the playoff every year.
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1st Rounder [617]
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Re: Dabo vs Adapting
Jul 8, 2024, 10:20 PM
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Fair points again. I also believe NIL is untenable in the long run, and regulation, or at least rule enforcement is sorely needed. But who is that regulation or enforcement going to come from? The NCAA? PLEASE...the NCAA has long since been neutered. The individual Universities? Not a chance. Dabo has been on record in the past as being against paying players, only more recently has he changed his tune in that regard. My biggest point is simple. I don't know when NIL/transfer portal will implode, but until it does tying our hands unnecessarily behind our backs is at best a hindrance to victory. As for last season, ball security was most definetly a problem...but it was one of many problems. Untilbwe can prove once again that we can push the ball downfield vertically our offense will remain one dimensional. Who on this current roster of O-lineman looks like they're NFL caliber? Where is the D-Hop, Mike Williams, Tee Higgins threat at wr? Heck, I'd settle for a Deon Cain or Artavis Scott. I'm not ready to throw the towel in on Klubnik, but I'm not ready to say he's the next great Clemson QB either. Tajh Boyd wasn't always good in the biggest moments, but he knew how to push the ball downfield. Right now the best we have can hope from with Cade is to be a game manager.
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Tiger Titan [46071]
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Re: Dabo vs Adapting
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Jul 8, 2024, 10:41 PM
[ in reply to Re: Dabo vs Adapting ] |
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Yes, Dabo created a winning culture here.
The follow up question is this: why have we been winning less the last few years, after dominating in the 2010s?
Dabo hired those coaches and recruited those players who won at an elite level. He also hired those coaches and recruited those players who underachieved more recently.
How do you know he’s hiring the right staff now? How do you know he is recruiting the right players now?
You don’t.
Recruiting high school players who “fit our culture” is not a sure thing. If it were, we would be winning more, and we wouldn’t be losing our share of players to the portal, would we?
I think we all admire Dabo for his morals and ideals. We like the fact that he made us a winner, and did it the right way. We also appreciate his focus on building men of integrity. But the mistake you and others here are making is in assuming that he can’t do that by using the portal and promoting NIL.
As I’ve asked many times, if our coaches are so great, why can’t they identify the talented and mature kids with good attitudes in high school AND in the transfer portal, and make sure that they are a good fit for the team and the culture we have? If a few new guys each year who transfer from other schools ruin our culture, it wasn’t that great to begin with, was it?
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1st Rounder [617]
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Re: Dabo vs Adapting
Jul 8, 2024, 10:44 PM
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Well said
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Clemson Icon [27272]
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Re: Dabo vs Adapting
Jul 9, 2024, 8:09 AM
[ in reply to Re: Dabo vs Adapting ] |
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This post is inaccurate on so many levels. Tommy Bowden did not create a winning culture at Clemson. Dabo Swinney corrected that. Dabo recruits better than Tommy Bowden and 99% of the active coaches in college football currently.
I think some people are assuming that if Dabo doesn't use the portal that we will not be a national title contender anymore. That's categorically false because Dabo is hiring the right staff and recruiting the right players from high school. The portal isn't necessarily required at this point.
Sure, we could have burned a scholarship on a player that is only looking for a quick payout from a NIL package, but Dabo has built a culture that is not consistent with that scheme nor is it compatible. In fact, it is contradictory to what Dabo and CLEMSON stands for.
Other coaches over sign classes, send out hundreds of offers if not more, and Dabo Swinney only sends out offers for who he needs. Then there are target recruits that Dabo wants and Clemson ends up with about 85% of the target offers even in the down seasons. If that is the case, then why use the portal and burn a scholarship on a young man who will only be on the team for a season?
The sport of college football is in the beginning stages of NIL and transfer portal madness. Things may seem great in this honeymoon phase right now, but when the system begins to collapse many of these programs are going to face irreparable damage to their future. Dabo won't have to change a thing because we didn't adapt to paying players in the portal to come and play for one year at Clemson. Any player worth recruiting from the portal comes with an expensive NIL price tag. I would much rather offer NIL money to a player who is ALL-IN 110% and worthy to touch Howard's Rock.
Wait until players begin suing schools because they didn't get what they were promised by a coach. Oh wait, that is already happening to Billy Napier at Florida. Wait until you see players sit out games because they didn't get what they demanded. Oh wait, that is already happening at Florida State. A team where more than 70% of the starters from last year were recruited from the portal and paid healthy sums of money to play at Florida State. They have zero loyalty to the program and whenever the cards were down, they rolled over on the team, the school, and the fans. Wait until envy and jealousy creates division in the locker room. Oh wait, that's already happening at Colorado with Coach Prime. It's a big reason why their season collapsed after winning 4 games. Wait until a school spends millions of dollars recruiting more than 10 5* recruits and lose so many games that the head coach is fired. Oh wait, that's already happened at Texas A&M.
Loyalty means everything in this world and if a player isn't loyal to Clemson, then I don't want his filthy hands on Howard's Rock. It's quite that simple. If we have to pay a player to come to Clemson, then good riddance and good luck. If a player wants to come to Clemson and EARN NIL money, then I am all for it. Most of these players in the portal haven't proven anything to cost $700,000 or in some cases $1.3MM. It just isn't worth the investment. What is worth the investment is recruiting a player from high school, building a relationship, developing that player to not only be a great player on the field, but a solid member of society whenever he leaves Clemson with a degree.
AN OFFER FROM CLEMSON.... IT JUST MEANS MORE. GO TIGERS!
THIS!!!!
A MILLION TIMES YES!!!!!
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110%er [3747]
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College football with student/athletes doesn't exist anymore
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Jul 8, 2024, 9:07 PM
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The best that can be said it is "semi-pro" football. I will probably on watch if Dabo is our coach and continuing to do it "the right way" (players graduating).
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Tiger Spirit [9466]
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Re: Dabo vs Adapting
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Jul 8, 2024, 9:12 PM
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Dabo knows how to coach and how to recruit great student athletes. If you are only interested in winning at all cost, Dabo is not your coach and Clemson is not your school. Support Dabo, our coaches in all sports and all our athletes. When you have been around as long as I have and have been to football and basketball games since the 60's and survived many losing seasons, watched the first soccer teams get beat almost every game, played in college golf tournaments in the state that Clemson had no chance to win, watched baseball games that were fun but tough to win, you will begin to understand that supporting Clemson is way more than whether Dabo uses the Portal or not.
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Tiger Spirit [9265]
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1st Rounder [617]
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Re: Another Example of Why Loyalty Is Important
Jul 8, 2024, 9:32 PM
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There's also no way Arch turns down the money if he wasn't already from a wealthy family. Asking a kid from a meager background to turn down millions to transfer is a different animal altogether.
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1st Rounder [617]
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Re: Dabo vs Adapting
Jul 8, 2024, 9:36 PM
[ in reply to Re: Dabo vs Adapting ] |
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I'm a proud Alumni, I'll always support my Tigers. However, that doesn't mean that settling for belowe "best is the standard" is the way forward. If we return to title competition I'll gladly eat crow, but the current trajectory says otherwise. Sports like it or not are meant to produce a winner and a loser. Life lessons and character need and should be emphasized. Striving for victory shoukd be as well. Embracing the NIL and transfer portal does not make the program nor Dabo immoral.
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Tiger Spirit [9265]
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Re: Dabo vs Adapting
Jul 8, 2024, 9:56 PM
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I'm a proud Alumni, I'll always support my Tigers. However, that doesn't mean that settling for belowe "best is the standard" is the way forward. If we return to title competition I'll gladly eat crow, but the current trajectory says otherwise. Sports like it or not are meant to produce a winner and a loser. Life lessons and character need and should be emphasized. Striving for victory shoukd be as well. Embracing the NIL and transfer portal does not make the program nor Dabo immoral.
Prepare to eat crow. LOL
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1st Rounder [617]
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Re: Dabo vs Adapting
Jul 8, 2024, 10:05 PM
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I'm legitimately hoping. I've been wrong a bunch. If we're sitting at 4-4 again next year then we need to reevaluate these self imposed restrictions.
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Clemson Icon [27583]
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You CANNOT compare
Jul 10, 2024, 11:30 AM
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Todays sports team with yesterdays teams!!!
The rich get rich …… and the poor get poorer.”
IF Dabo can keep our team in the spotlight he deserves all the praise of college football. Amateurs against Pros. That is where we are now.
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Replies: 16
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