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110%er [9680]
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All-In [27290]
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I'm not seeing anything new in this article that we didn't
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May 15, 2023, 12:33 PM
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already know.
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110%er [9680]
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I know. The point of my post was just for folks who made
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May 15, 2023, 12:39 PM
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light of people who said there were reasons to be skeptical of the vaccine.
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Hall of Famer [24286]
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Re: I know. The point of my post was just for folks who made
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May 15, 2023, 12:54 PM
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Makes you wonder what else some in the medical community are pushing that may not be healthy.
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All-In [47887]
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no wonder that the MAGAt population also
May 15, 2023, 12:57 PM
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eschews mental health treatments
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Hall of Famer [24286]
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Re: no wonder that the MAGAt population also
May 15, 2023, 1:43 PM
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Not sure what a Magat is, but some people don't blindly and unquestioningly follow the medical community. I mean, I remember when oxycontin was not considered to be that addictive by people in the medical community.
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Oculus Spirit [83191]
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But medical community much better to follow
May 15, 2023, 2:50 PM
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than politicians.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: But medical community much better to follow
May 15, 2023, 2:54 PM
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Oculus Spirit [83191]
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Hall of Famer [24286]
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Re: But medical community much better to follow
May 15, 2023, 3:06 PM
[ in reply to But medical community much better to follow ] |
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I agree with that for sure, but I'm not going to condemn people who were skeptical about a new vaccine.
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Orange Blooded [3031]
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Re: But medical community much better to follow
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May 15, 2023, 3:16 PM
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Thank you!
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All-In [31938]
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I think there was a pretty wide spectrum from...
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May 15, 2023, 4:18 PM
[ in reply to Re: But medical community much better to follow ] |
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healthy skepticism to those who actively spread and promoted false information about the vaccines.
I didn't/don't have a problem with those that were apprehensive to try it based on the newness of it...assuming they were informed and actually understood the approval process.
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All-In [47887]
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huh? did we read the same thing?
May 15, 2023, 12:56 PM
[ in reply to I know. The point of my post was just for folks who made ] |
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the J&J vaccine was limited to certain populations and, now, the remaining doses have expired. pretty much all that article said.
How does that justify the hubris of the MAGAts (+ one strange Kennedy)??
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110%er [9680]
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Admittedly, I have reading comprehension issues, but
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May 15, 2023, 3:03 PM
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I took this:
"Last year, the CDC limited the emergency use authorization of the vaccine to adults for whom other vaccines aren’t appropriate or accessible due to risk of a rare and dangerous clotting condition called thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS) after receiving the vaccine."
to mean that J&J had a higher occurrence of TTS that the other vaccines - so it was given the boot.
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All-In [27290]
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110%er [9680]
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Nothing I guess. I wasn't aware that anti-Vaxxers had been
May 15, 2023, 3:07 PM
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given the benefit of the doubt on this. I thought we were still in "anti-Vaxxers are raving lunatics" mode. I'm up-to-date now.
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Orange Blooded [3031]
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Re: I was no anti-Vaxxer, but this shows that folks who were
May 15, 2023, 12:59 PM
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I wish at this point we could just move on. Some of y’all took the shots. I did not. Everybody should be happy and satisfied with their choice right?
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All-In [47887]
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kind of like the loyalist who wanted to stay in the USA
May 15, 2023, 1:09 PM
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after the revolution, right?
you were on the wrong side of history but you lived sooo what's next ?
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: kind of like the loyalist who wanted to stay in the USA
May 15, 2023, 1:14 PM
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All-In [27290]
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Preventable-death is a side effect of COVID.***
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May 15, 2023, 1:16 PM
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All-In [47887]
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did the loyalist in 1776 not also make a "personal choice"?
May 15, 2023, 1:19 PM
[ in reply to Re: kind of like the loyalist who wanted to stay in the USA ] |
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as for the wrong side of history, the empirical evidence definitively proves that vaccines saved lives and kept most hospitals, after the vaccines were available, below capacity. Those who chose to ignore the universal advice of doctors benefited from those who followed the doctors' advice.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: did the loyalist in 1776 not also make a "personal choice"?
May 15, 2023, 1:26 PM
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All-In [47887]
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thankfully most people did get the vaccine. if more people
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May 15, 2023, 1:31 PM
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had been like yall, we'd have all been worse off.
Example: my dad was in ICU for 2 weeks during all of this (not for COVID related things but due to bad oysters). If the hospital had been overrun with anti-vaxxers, there might not have been room in the ICU for him.
Anti-vaxxers are sort of like the WW2 draft dodgers who were, none the less, thankful that Hitler didnt invade the USA.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: thankfully most people did get the vaccine. if more people
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May 15, 2023, 1:46 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: thankfully most people did get the vaccine. if more people
May 15, 2023, 1:49 PM
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Associate AD [828]
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Re: thankfully most people did get the vaccine. if more people
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May 15, 2023, 2:21 PM
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Yes, mortality rates have gone way down. But the gap between those rates in the vaccinated and unvaccinated has been very large both when mortality rates have been high and when they have been low. At this point there is less risk to being unvaccinated than there was a year ago.
But the "happy about their choices" stuff. Geez. Are these guys happy about their choices?
In August 2021, a number of conservative talk radio hosts who had discouraged COVID-19 vaccination, or expressed skepticism toward the COVID-19 vaccine, died from COVID-19 complications. These included 65-year-old Marc Bernier, self-nicknamed "Mr. Antivax", from Daytona, Florida; 65-year-old #### Farrel, who referred to the pandemic as a "SCAM DEMIC"; an octogenarian Christian radio host who decried the vaccine as a form of government control; and 61-year-old Phil Valentine, who compared vaccination status badges worn by medical workers with the yellow badges German Jews were ordered to wear by the Nazis. In September 2021, another anti-vaccine conservative radio host, 62-year-old Bob Enyart, who "vocally refused to get vaccinated and actively spread false claims about the COVID-19 virus", died of COVID-19, prompting a new round of reports discussing the phenomenon within that demographic. The phenomenon was repeated in November 2021, when Marcus Lamb, co-founder of the Daystar Television Network who promoted skepticism toward all vaccines, died of COVID-19
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: thankfully most people did get the vaccine. if more people
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May 15, 2023, 2:41 PM
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Associate AD [828]
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Re: thankfully most people did get the vaccine. if more people
May 15, 2023, 2:57 PM
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Deflecting does not change the fact that you are still twice as likely to die of COVID if you have not been vaccinated than if you have been. I know it seems to hurt you to acknowledge that, but facts are facts.
Age? Preexisting conditions? I thought that one of the points of modern medicine was that you could have a high quality life despite your age or underlying medical conditions that could have made life extremely difficult in a prior time. 65 isn't old any more.
The anti-vaxx crowd (which probably has a lot of crossover with people who said ACA was going to lead to death panels for granny) treats the deaths of older Americans as being the cost of doing business for being an anti-vaxxer. It's weird to me.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: thankfully most people did get the vaccine. if more people
May 15, 2023, 3:14 PM
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Orange Blooded [3031]
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Re: did the loyalist in 1776 not also make a "personal choice"?
May 15, 2023, 2:20 PM
[ in reply to did the loyalist in 1776 not also make a "personal choice"? ] |
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Those who ignored doctors advice benefited from those who didn’t? Can you please explain how I benefited because you took a shot? Wow!! Lol.
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All-In [34718]
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All-In [47887]
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please someone let me know if Crass ever has a
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May 15, 2023, 1:32 PM
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lucid thought
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Orange Blooded [3031]
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Re: please someone let me know if Crass ever has a
May 15, 2023, 2:07 PM
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I am absolutely not on the wrong side of history and I did not increase spread of the virus. Good grief man.
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All-In [34718]
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He knows he's a whiny poussey. Always has been.***
May 15, 2023, 5:52 PM
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110%er [7239]
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All-TigerNet [13218]
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Stop calling it a vaccine
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May 15, 2023, 3:03 PM
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The “mumps” has a vaccine.
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110%er [9680]
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Yessir - it's definitely more like a flu shot...***
May 15, 2023, 3:09 PM
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All-TigerNet [12216]
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which is also a vaccine***
May 15, 2023, 3:35 PM
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110%er [9680]
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I'll (almost) defer to the person with MD in their name. I
May 15, 2023, 3:40 PM
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think of a vaccine as a one-and-done (like the polio vaccine). I think of a flu shot as something that has to be taken every year.
I don't see any notifications about getting your flu vaccine every year. Folks just don't call it that.
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All-TigerNet [12216]
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gotcha
May 15, 2023, 4:05 PM
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it is a vaccine, some are life long, some have to be boosted (tetanus, flu, etc)
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All-TigerNet [12216]
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All-TigerNet [13218]
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Post Covid: it means “placebo”***
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May 15, 2023, 3:37 PM
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All-TigerNet [12216]
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umm yeah, nope***
May 15, 2023, 4:04 PM
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All-TigerNet [11990]
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Did you stand up
May 15, 2023, 5:43 PM
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for natural immunity?
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Orange Blooded [3031]
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Re: Define a vaccine then please sir***
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May 15, 2023, 4:12 PM
[ in reply to Define a vaccine then please sir*** ] |
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CubMD , I would like to give you my definition of a vaccine. Tell me if you find a flaw. A vaccine is an artificial attempt to produce an immune response to a pathogen similar to the way the body would respond to the pathogen after previous exposure. Fair?
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All-TigerNet [12216]
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Re: Define a vaccine then please sir***
May 15, 2023, 4:17 PM
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pretty close, the only caveat would be live attenuated vaccines (MMR Chickenpox) that could be called non artificial, although have been engineered not to cause illness.
so, in the case of covid, the vaccine did indeed cause an immune response, proven by the rise of antibodies against the spike protein (and some of the capsule proteins) in those who got it.
So you can't really debate that it is or is not a vaccine, how well it worked and for what purpose (decreased morbidity vs total immunity etc) ok.
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Orange Blooded [3031]
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Re: Define a vaccine then please sir***
May 15, 2023, 4:31 PM
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Ok thank you for answering. So, based on your response of “pretty close” what would you say to the folks who completely ignore the very real reality of natural immunity? Based on my definition the vaccine is attempting to copy the response my body would make after exposure. I’m asking because many even in medical professions have denied the science of natural immunity. It’s still difficult for me to understand why they did and continue to do so.
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All-TigerNet [12216]
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Re: Define a vaccine then please sir***
May 15, 2023, 4:45 PM
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no one is denying natural immunity, the crux of the argument is does it last (no), and at what cost to get a population immune thru natural immunity? Also if natural immunity worked to eradicate an illness, there would be no need for vaccines of any kind
another thing to consider, if you are trying to get immune thru infection, you run the very real risk of spreading to others, as you are contagious many times before symptoms start.
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Orange Blooded [3031]
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Re: Define a vaccine then please sir***
May 15, 2023, 4:56 PM
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I had Covid 30 months ago as did my entire family. None of us tried to get infected. Not that stupid!! But we all got Covid before the shots were widely available. Having all had Covid our decision to opt out of the vaccine and rely on natural immunity made sense for us. None of us have had a second infection and none of us have any health issues from Covid.
I keep hearing how natural immunity doesn’t last. Remember when they told us it lasts 3 months, then 6 months, then well, maybe longer? Have you seen the studies with Spanish flu survivors showing immunity many decades after infection? You mentioned that no one is denying natural immunity. Maybe you have not read some of the comments on this board over the past couple years? It’s been pretty vicious.
By the way, I did discuss my decision to rely on natural immunity with my doctor. He said it was a sound decision. It’s proving to be very much just that in my family.
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All-In [31938]
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How exactly is it not a vaccine?...
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May 15, 2023, 3:42 PM
[ in reply to Stop calling it a vaccine ] |
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#1 definition of a vaccine according to Webster's:
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: a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious agent or disease: such as
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: an antigenic preparation of a typically inactivated or attenuated (see ATTENUATED sense 2) pathogenic agent (such as a bacterium or virus) or one of its components or products (such as a protein or toxin)
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: a preparation of genetic material (such as a strand of synthesized messenger RNA) that is used by the cells of the body to produce an antigenic substance (such as a fragment of virus spike protein)
Please inform us on this....
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All-TigerNet [11241]
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Nothing in that article supports your conclusion.***
May 15, 2023, 3:36 PM
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110%er [9680]
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I took this to mean that J&J was a tad more unsafe than
May 15, 2023, 3:46 PM
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the others:
Last year, the CDC limited the emergency use authorization of the vaccine to adults for whom other vaccines aren’t appropriate or accessible due to risk of a rare and dangerous clotting condition called thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS) after receiving the vaccine.
Maybe it was talking about all of the vaccines. I just think it was enough a risk that young, healthy adults could take their chances with COVID and not still be seen as crazy.
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All-TigerNet [11241]
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Wasn’t as widely tested as Pfizer BioNTech and Moderna.
May 15, 2023, 7:15 PM
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JNJ was third to market in US so they didn’t not continue the post clinicals on a low market share drug. As a 20 yr vet of the pharma industry, I can tell you with 100% certainty that if JNJ could make money on it, it would be on the market. Their doses expired and there was no reason to invest more.
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Legend [18026]
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100% of the anti-vaxxer freakout is over mRNA vaccines
May 15, 2023, 5:33 PM
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which the J&J vaccine is not (it's a viral vector vaccine which is decades old type of vaccine). The fact that the J&J is less effective and potentially has worse side effects actually helps the argument for the other vaccines (mRNA) while hurting the anti-vaxxer arguments.
Your takeaway from the article should actually be the opposite.
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