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New Story: Can Clemson win National Championship in 2018? Yes, but offense has to improve
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New Story: Can Clemson win National Championship in 2018? Yes, but offense has to improve
Feb 12, 2018, 7:01 AM
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Orange Blooded [2565]
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A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 7:21 AM
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Only thing you called out was the OL.
What about play calling?
Was the play calling limited by weaknesses in the passing game, run game or both?
It seemed the 2016 team could score when it needed to score. The 2017 did not seem to have the same dynamic.
What was the difference in the team's ability to score when needed this past season? Leadership, coaching, player execution?
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1st Rounder [648]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 7:26 AM
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Play calling was way too conservative because Bryant is not a great passer. He wants to run before all his check downs. I’m rooting for Johnson, Lawrence,or Brice to win the job.
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Orange Blooded [2336]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 9:16 AM
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I agree that we need to pass the ball better in 2018, but I don't think that necessarily excludes Kelly Bryant. I think that many have forgotten the huge strides that he made between his sophomore and junior years. Maybe a better passing game means a change at QB, but then again maybe it doesn't.
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 1:56 PM
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Didn't mean for my quote to apply to your post. I really like KB. He's a good athlete, but not anywhere near a D-1 QB. Why not give the kid a chance to play a position that would give him a shot at the NFL? He'll never play a second at QB at that level. His "glance then run" plan would land him in the hospital within his first quarter of play. But at RB or DB, he's have a shot. Why not give him that?
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Orange Elite [5492]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 10:34 PM
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He nowhere near a D1 qb??? What a dumb post. He won the ACC and took us to the playoff. Lol you have no clue. KB would start at a lot of other school also.
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Commissioner [942]
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Commissioner [942]
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Hall of Famer [24440]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 13, 2018, 4:30 PM
[ in reply to Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the ] |
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i actually think the coaching staff did a better job than many are giving them credit for in hiding/working around Bryant's inadequacies. I hope that either Lawrence or Johnson steps up in the spring/summer.
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Orange Immortal [60124]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 7:53 AM
[ in reply to A lot of talk and some stats but the ] |
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All that someone has to do to find what the difference was, and they will see DW4 lighting up the offense, with KB, not so much, not so much at all to nothing!!! IMO, I don't think that it would matter that much if KB was a 4 year starting QB, he would still be no more than a serviceable QB. As hard as the truth is to handle by most, the truth is that KB isn't a championship winning type of QB. KB don't have any special talents that championship QBs have with their explosiveness when a quick score is needed.
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Orange Phenom [14712]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 8:22 AM
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I mostly agree. Sometimes the truth hurts. No disrespect to KB, just the truth.
KB played hard, tough and represented Clemson very well. He is just not the total package. He deserves kudos for helping lead The Tigers back to the playoffs. Very nice performances against the coots and canes.
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All-In [10274]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 8:47 AM
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I mostly agree. Sometimes the truth hurts. No disrespect to KB, just the truth.
KB played hard, tough and represented Clemson very well. He is just not the total package. He deserves kudos for helping lead The Tigers back to the playoffs. Very nice performances against the coots and canes.
No one disputes DW4 is better than KB2 however I can’t help but wonder how much the loss of Leggett and Mike Dub impacted the perceived difference. We basically had no TE presence and no go to deep receiver who could win a contested ball deep down the field. My hunch is if Leggett and Williams had played last year we would not be throwing rocks at KB2
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 2:42 PM
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Wrong. We have an incredible receiving corps. Two five-star receivers coming in. My understanding is that having Trevor Lawrence coming as QB influenced both of their decisions. He can "hum that seed," while Kelly has problems throwing a football into a lake. I respect his character and courage, but am simply saying that he can't play QB at a program like Clemson's. If we want to regress to a level-2 program, then okay go ahead and play a KB at quarterback and live with the consequences. I mean who do we want to be? You saw Saban's decision when his #1 QB wasn't performing. He was replaced. And how did that work out?? They won! If you choose to play at this level, you accept the premise that the best play. Can't believe that this even being debated.
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Orange Elite [5492]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 10:44 PM
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So tell me what great receivers we had this year? Who went and got the ball other tha renfrow??? I so as hell didn’t see anybody making catches like the year before? Did you really think we would win the ACC and make the playoffs before the season started ?
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All-In [10274]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 8:47 AM
[ in reply to Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the ] |
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I mostly agree. Sometimes the truth hurts. No disrespect to KB, just the truth.
KB played hard, tough and represented Clemson very well. He is just not the total package. He deserves kudos for helping lead The Tigers back to the playoffs. Very nice performances against the coots and canes.
No one disputes DW4 is better than KB2 however I can’t help but wonder how much the loss of Leggett and Mike Dub impacted the perceived difference. We basically had no TE presence and no go to deep receiver who could win a contested ball deep down the field. My hunch is if Leggett and Williams had played last year we would not be throwing rocks at KB2
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Valley Protector [1467]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 9:24 AM
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DW didn't have mike in 2015 and he seemed to be able to get the deep ball to Cain just fine. We have the down field threats KB just isn't the best passer and doesn't give them time to get open like DW did, he tucks and runs too quickly. I agree with a lot of the posters on this thread. Kb just seems not to have that passing gene we need with all the talent at WR. I do agree we missed Legget more than ppl thought but with all the WR talent we have there's no excuse to how much our passing game went down. We really need a qb with a cannon and pocket awareness that KB just doesn't have and is a rare trait that seperaes the elite qbs from the rest. I just don't see KB improving enough in that area to win us a title. With the defense we have, if TL or HJ can come in and sling the ball around we will dominate teams next year. Slinging it around will also create running lanes for Etienne and Feaster. The offense we run is just so much more dangerous with a elite qb DW was. The next guy doesn't have to be as good as DW but needs to have the same traits and on paper that's TL. We will see if it translates to college if so TL or HJ whoever performs better needs to take the reins and get our passing game back to what it was. Need to get back up to throwing 30-40 td passes not 18 like KB with so much wr talent. If KB improves I don't mind him starting again he's a South Carolina born and raised but I just don't think he can improve in the areas we need him to. Just my honest opinion. Go Tigers!!
Message was edited by: HunterClemsonTigers
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All-In [10274]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 10:20 AM
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DW didn't have mike in 2015 and he seemed to be able to get the deep ball to Cain just fine. We have the down field threats KB just isn't the best passer and doesn't give them time to get open like DW did, he tucks and runs too quickly. I agree with a lot of the posters on this thread. Kb just seems not to have that passing gene we need with all the talent at WR. I do agree we missed Legget more than ppl thought but with all the WR talent we have there's no excuse to how much our passing game went down. We really need a qb with a cannon and pocket awareness that KB just doesn't have and is a rare trait that seperaes the elite qbs from the rest. I just don't see KB improving enough in that area to win us a title. With the defense we have, if TL or HJ can come in and sling the ball around we will dominate teams next year. Slinging it around will also create running lanes for Etienne and Feaster. The offense we run is just so much more dangerous with a elite qb DW was. The next guy doesn't have to be as good as DW but needs to have the same traits and on paper that's TL. We will see if it translates to college if so TL or HJ whoever performs better needs to take the reins and get our passing game back to what it was. Need to get back up to throwing 30-40 td passes not 18 like KB with so much wr talent. If KB improves I don't mind him starting again he's a South Carolina born and raised but I just don't think he can improve in the areas we need him to. Just my honest opinion. Go Tigers!!
Message was edited by: HunterClemsonTigers
We also lost to Bama in 2015 same as 2017
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Game Changer [1640]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 11:20 AM
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We lost to Alabama in 2015 because our safeties couldn't find the Alabama tight end, and our special teams got beat on an onside kick. Nothing to do with QB play.
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Orange Elite [5492]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 13, 2018, 11:02 AM
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We also lost to bama because DW threw a int. when we were driving to go up 14 let's don't forget everything that happened.
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Valley Protector [1467]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 11:45 AM
[ in reply to Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the ] |
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Yea but that lose to bama in 15 had nothing to do with the offense considering we put up 40 points and over 500 yards, not so much in 17 so dont get your point about that 15 game compared to the 17 game.
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Recruit [96]
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Paw Master [16757]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 11:21 AM
[ in reply to Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the ] |
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I like KB, but he just is not a very good downfield passer. I wish he were, but the truth is very evident. It would do him a favor for him to switch to a different position, because he won't get a sniff as a QB for the next level. (assuming he wants to make that step to the next level)
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Orange Immortal [60124]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 2:50 PM
[ in reply to Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the ] |
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Our coaches are making big time money to win FB games, and I hope they will evaluate every player, and will put our very best 11 players on both sides of the ball bc they aren't going to ask me who do I believe the best 11 are!!! Goooo Tigers with winning the big marble again this coming season!!!
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 2:57 PM
[ in reply to Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the ] |
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TL will light it up. Plus we have two other QB's more talented than KB. KB has athletic ability, and I hope we will play him at a position that will give a shot at the NFL. But as a D-1 QB at a program like Clemson's, people have got to be kidding. Wait until TL gets to spring practice. And two to three others. The irony is that KB is a great athlete who could succeed at several other positions, and give a shot at the NFL.
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Orange Elite [5492]
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Orange Immortal [60124]
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 2:02 PM
[ in reply to Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the ] |
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But he is a very good athlete who could possibly make it in another position. With a little time in the weight room and some added weight, he could play LB. I'm frustrated by the fact that he's not being given the opportunity to do this. This guy brings his own guts.
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Orange Elite [5492]
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [108485]
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It almost seems a good overview and road map to future
Feb 12, 2018, 7:53 AM
[ in reply to A lot of talk and some stats but the ] |
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stories. I think its design and intent was to be generalist; I 'magine you'll get more of what you're looking for as the Spring et al. unfolds?
I thought he mentioned all the important big parts, including play calling & OCs going in the tank to protect leads, clock & our defense.
I'll add one general stat to David's, TO Margin was +4 with only 16 the entire campaign, compared to -1[28 ttl in 2016] & -2[27 ttl in 2015] = it was a huge emphasis going into 2017, one Dabo called out. I believe partly because of what you mention, this team didn't have DW4, who was given complete autonomy in making presnap adjustments & audibles. Coaches reel that stuff in when they are trying to address TOs and you don't have the guy at the helm that can make up for his mistakes where DW4 could.
Come on Spring!
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Orange Phenom [14712]
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Re: It almost seems a good overview and road map to future
Feb 12, 2018, 8:25 AM
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Your last paragraph was spot on.
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CU Medallion [19888]
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Ring of Honor [23794]
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LOL, dsp 'funny'. Just lol.***
Feb 12, 2018, 10:11 AM
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [108485]
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Maybe if you're a good boy & really nice this year...
Feb 12, 2018, 10:42 AM
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Santa will bring you the cents of humour?
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Ring of Honor [23794]
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Santa needn't bother.
Feb 12, 2018, 11:31 AM
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I don't need any scents of humour, I have my hate to keep me warm.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [108485]
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hate must be bob's pet name, right?***
Feb 12, 2018, 11:44 AM
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Ring of Honor [23794]
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Wow, you're really creepy.***
Feb 12, 2018, 12:35 PM
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [108485]
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Re: Wow, you're really creepy.***
Feb 12, 2018, 12:47 PM
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Orange Immortal [60124]
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Re: It almost seems a good overview and road map to future
Feb 12, 2018, 10:02 AM
[ in reply to It almost seems a good overview and road map to future ] |
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But don't you think that, and this you said (including play calling & OCs going in the tank to protect leads, clock & our defense.) that it has more to do with them understanding the limitations they had at QB. Personally I think it had everything to do with the anorexic play calling. I say this bc, I believe that our offense was starving from the lack big play calls that was Fed to DW4 in an instant bc they knew that DW4 would deliver what they wanted to do 95% of the time!!! It has a 100% to do with the trust they have in the players they have to carry out their plans, and some years the players are just better than others!!! Cycle in and cycle out, but they are now getting much better players to cycle IN!!!
Message was edited by: allorangeallthetime52®
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: It almost seems a good overview and road map to future
Feb 12, 2018, 1:44 PM
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Absolutely right. We were limited in terms of what they knew KB could and could not execute. If you can't throw long, can't read defenses, how are you playing QB at this level. Not fair to him , either.
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Commissioner [942]
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: It almost seems a good overview and road map to future
Feb 12, 2018, 3:20 PM
[ in reply to It almost seems a good overview and road map to future ] |
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You make very good points, with which I agree. I'm encouraged by our prospects for the coming season season, but only if we don't get locked into some loyalty deal with KB. Remember how long it took us to start Deshaun Watson?? It was interminable. God bless KB. He's a very nice guy. But he can't throw the long ball, and runs the minute the "spit hits the dirt." Can't read defenses. Okay, so start him! Some post on here that coaches know best. Well maybe. Then why are so many of them fired every year
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Legend [6948]
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Legend [18408]
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Re: We did lose DW and MW, they were gone in the first 12 picks of the draft***
Feb 12, 2018, 8:50 AM
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You could have mentioned leggett too. But dsp and allorange are on top of it.
Can’t add much more than allorange!
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Commissioner [942]
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Orange Phenom [14712]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 8:16 AM
[ in reply to A lot of talk and some stats but the ] |
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The difference was losing DW4.
Less talent at QB has a huge effect on play calling.
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Recruit [110]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 9:07 AM
[ in reply to A lot of talk and some stats but the ] |
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The loss of Wayne Gallman’s pass blocking and violent running was also a major factor in our decreased offense. Kelly Bryant would have benefited from having a better blocker beside him when we faced Saban’s motivated warriors. Wayne’s blocking skills allowed us to use the tight end as a pass catcher more often.
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Orange Immortal [60124]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 10:28 AM
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To an extent yes, but the instant that KB see's or feels the pressure, he jets, and most of the time it's in the arms of a defender!!! Saban is the best of the best college FB coaches, and his main and biggest plan for beating us was to keep pressure on KB all game and it would result in a big win as it did!!!
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Letterman [291]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 10:41 AM
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Thats just not true. Go watch any game of the season that isn't the Bama game. HIs pocket presence is fine. Watch the Auburn game as he steps into the pocket and delivers throws.
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 5:29 PM
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Really? I saw him continually mis-read and mis-throw passes----On other downs he simply took off running, and was crushed by the Alabama defense; a boy playing in a man's game. Okay, we've had our "magic carpet ride" with with a D-2 QB. So, let's get down to business.
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 2:18 PM
[ in reply to Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the ] |
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Okay, Saban is not a touchy-feely guy, but give credit where it is due. He's perhaps the greatest coach of our time. When he saw that we were going to stick with KB, he brought the dogs---game over. True, our OL looked like they just emigrated from a rest home, but these guys feed off the QB play, and I'm sure that they sensed in the first quarter that it was all over but the tears and excuses. We couldn't throw long or effectively read defenses. End of story.
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Trainer [28]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 14, 2018, 9:49 PM
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We didn't have a good game plan and our plays are too predictable and pathetic. Time for change. Our talent is too good to not dominate on offense just like defense. We have a D.C. On defense but lack OC talent.
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Commissioner [942]
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Orange Blooded [4378]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 5:25 PM
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According to cmoneytiger, KB is one of the 5 best qbs in all of college football.
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 5:37 PM
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God help him,and any one who listens to him. Hopefully not us. One of the most crazed statements I've ever read. This must be paid hype. He won't even start a Clemson next year. Fourth on the depth chart, if the coaches can escape politics.
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CU Guru [1071]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 13, 2018, 6:18 AM
[ in reply to Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the ] |
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Cmoneytiger is not alone in his opinion. K. Bryant has not been getting what I would call a whole lot of attention but it has been at least a good bit in regard to the Heisman next year. I admit that it includes some of the real boneheads who voted for the wrong guy in 2016 but he (KB) has been mentioned in several articles in different publications.
I may not agree with cmoneytiger's assessment of KB but I definitely disagree with those who suggest he isn't even a good Division I QB. How many other Division I QB's were 12 and 2 last year?!
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110%er [8867]
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 13, 2018, 3:22 PM
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I’m with you 100% right here. KB took us to the playoffs. I would say it was the coach’s responsibility to have a back up that could move the ballard if Kb couldn’t and to utilize said backup. That we didn’t have or use, I don’t know which
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Orange Blooded [4506]
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What part of “offense went ultra-conservative with a lead”
Feb 12, 2018, 9:24 AM
[ in reply to A lot of talk and some stats but the ] |
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did you miss? BTW the coaches have led us to the playoffs 3 consecutive years so I will defer to them on their gameplans.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Play-makers have to make plays ...
Feb 12, 2018, 10:19 AM
[ in reply to A lot of talk and some stats but the ] |
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It's pretty much that simple.
When play-makers make plays ... the coaches look like geniuses... and "leaders" appear to have led.
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Legend [6896]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Yes, play calling was awful in that game, one downfield pass
Feb 12, 2018, 11:08 AM
[ in reply to A lot of talk and some stats but the ] |
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and if Tee was not mugged, that would have been a td! Tigers played right into their hands by being predictable.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Yes, play calling was awful in that game, one downfield pass
Feb 12, 2018, 1:04 PM
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What about the critical down field pass that Cain went up and caught ... and then dropped?
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Legend [6896]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Wasn't that a medium over the middle pass?***
Feb 12, 2018, 7:51 PM
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All-TigerNet [11934]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 1998
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No ... it was a jump ball far downfield and on the sideline.
Feb 13, 2018, 2:52 PM
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Just like the ones Mike Williams hauled in late in the game the previous year.
He also dropped a simple 10 yard down & out that had at least 15 YAC waiting after he caught it ... if he'd have caught it.
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Paw Master [16757]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 11:15 AM
[ in reply to A lot of talk and some stats but the ] |
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Our OC's job is to call plays. It is the job of the offense to successfully execute the plays. The offensive line is huge in being successful there, and it has been obvious that has not been a real strength, at all prior to last year, and even then only against weak opponents. We got exposed, and exposed in a huge way against AL's great DL. I hope that gets fixed. Play calling has not been the best with our "get a little lead and run clock" mentality that makes games much closer than necessary, and I hope we have learned a good lesson there. We will see.
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Commissioner [942]
TigerPulse: 40%
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Re: A lot of talk and some stats but the
Feb 12, 2018, 1:39 PM
[ in reply to A lot of talk and some stats but the ] |
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Seemed obvious to me watching the playoff game against Alabama. They knew coming in that with our current QB situation we had no viable downfield threat. They accordingly crowded the line of scrimmage. Game over. Remember how many games during the regular season we won literally by the skin of our teeth. KB was very fortunate to have a top-flight team around him, but was totally exposed against "Bama. I suspect that our regular season opponents watched that game, and are salivating at the prospect of KB remaining as our starting QB. We have two or three guys on the team right now who can throw the football down the field into a rabbit hole, and read defenses. But, they have to get on the field. And, there's a reason that coaches shudder when a QB takes off running. That's why we have running backs. JMHO.
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Orange Immortal [62225]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Spot on.***
Feb 12, 2018, 7:58 AM
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All-Conference [427]
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Bama was th game where we needed to stop the RPO plays and
Feb 12, 2018, 8:13 AM
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let the Oline have a fighting chance. Bama was too big, too strong, and too pissed off to make our Oline sit there and not be able to fire off the ball.
I fully believe our coaching staff was more than just concerned with leaving KB in the pocket to find an open receiver across the middle of the field. I will need to re-watch the game to say for sure, but I do not recall many crossing routes or TE curls or posts behind the LB's.
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CU Guru [1907]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Protect mode...........
Feb 12, 2018, 8:38 AM
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In my opinion the team went in to protect mode far too often and far too early in games where the score was not entirely one sided. You can argue they had confidence in the BV defense but in truth when the offense goes 3 and out way too many times the defense stays on the field getting tired , making a big scoring play possible for the opposing team. I would like to see less protect mode and more put their foot on their throat mode in the coming season.
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Hall of Famer [8260]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Yes, 1000%
Feb 12, 2018, 9:39 AM
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Step on their throats! I have been waiting for years for Clemson to be at the top and blow teams out like USC and OU did last decade. I want more blowouts!
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All-In [10274]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Re: Yes, 1000%
Feb 12, 2018, 10:24 AM
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Step on their throats! I have been waiting for years for Clemson to be at the top and blow teams out like USC and OU did last decade. I want more blowouts!
Blow outs are fun but being conservative has no bearing on this discussion as we did not lose a single game because of conservative play calling
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Orange Immortal [60124]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Yes, 1000%
Feb 12, 2018, 10:47 AM
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I can say and believe, we have the wrong HC if it's blow out wins you're looking for. Dabo will not intentionally try and embarrass or humiliate the coach across the field from him. The very moment that Dabo feels we have the game out of reach of the opposing team making a come back and win, starters will be taken out of the game even if it's against any of his assistants protest. Bv would have had several shut outs if Dabo would have allowed the starting defensive guys stay in the game. In my opinion, that do hurt BV's end of the year stats, and that sometimes keeps BV out of some of the awards he could have gotten with more shut outs. And I guess that is why BV makes so much money, it's bc Dabo knows exactly what he has in BV, and it don't bother him if some don't know, but all other coaches do know exactly what Dabo has in BV!!!
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CU Guru [1907]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Re: Yes, 1000%
Feb 12, 2018, 11:08 AM
[ in reply to Re: Yes, 1000% ] |
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No but we dang sure did allow teams to hang around close enough to cause anxiety while watching!!!!!!!
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Legend [6896]
TigerPulse: 99%
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2 games we lost was largely due to conservative play calling***
Feb 12, 2018, 11:25 AM
[ in reply to Re: Yes, 1000% ] |
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Clemson Conqueror [11662]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Yes, 1000%
Feb 12, 2018, 1:02 PM
[ in reply to Yes, 1000% ] |
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Clemson blew out the opposition 6x last year. 5x in 2016. 5x in 2015. They were doing just fine (ranked #1) until the 'Bama game. And one stat that is not mentioned is the 15 straight completions KB had to start the ACC championship game. That pretty much destroyed Miami. No doubt in my mind- had he had Gallman, Leggett, Williams and Scott- KB would have been plenty explosive. DW4 was better, but he also had a stronger supporting cast.
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Paw Warrior [4929]
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Re: Bama was th game where we needed to stop the RPO plays and
Feb 12, 2018, 10:02 AM
[ in reply to Bama was th game where we needed to stop the RPO plays and ] |
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KB is not as good as DW4 at RPO. He misses too many reads. I noticed through the year that our best offensive series tended to be ones that included a healthy dose of called runs and called passes instead of RPO. I can only imagine that the OL would like to know sometimes if they are supposed to fire off the line for running plays or stay in and protect instead of always being in the limbo of RPO.
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Clemson Conqueror [11662]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Bama was th game where we needed to stop the RPO plays and
Feb 12, 2018, 1:16 PM
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Not sure about this. I've been watching football for over half a century. It's usually the teams that win in the trenches that win the games. I'm one who thinks the glamour boys get way too much credit. This recent Super Bowl was a case in point. Tom Brady is a future HOF guy. But one thing I noticed is that he can't run to save his life. Add to this that The Eagles had one of he best Dlines in the league and you would have expected five, six, maybe seven sacks. They got to him once (a big one). Why? The Patriot Oline was great, though you hardly hear anything about it. Likewise, if Clemson's Oline is great they will win. And they would have to be super great against 'Bama. Conversely, the bad guys score very little against Clemson because of the Tiger front four. Win the trenches, win the games.
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Orange Blooded [2991]
TigerPulse: 96%
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This. Teams that dominate the trenches win games. Period.***
Feb 12, 2018, 3:58 PM
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CU Guru [1511]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: New Story: Can Clemson win National Championship in 2018? Yes, but offense has to improve
Feb 12, 2018, 8:34 AM
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N the Bama game our right tackle missed more than his share of blocking assignments. His man put a lot of pressure on KB and our running backs and is a huge improvement opportunity.
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Hall of Famer [23994]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2017
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Re: New Story: Can Clemson win National Championship in 2018? Yes, but offense has to improve
Feb 12, 2018, 8:38 AM
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It starts with kelly bryants ability to read defenses and pass the ball, THEN the offensive line. The Dallas Cowboys couldn't even block for KB if he can't decide where he wants the ball.
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Starter [356]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: New Story: Can Clemson win National Championship in 2018? Yes, but offense has to improve
Feb 12, 2018, 9:49 AM
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It starts with kelly bryants ability to read defenses and pass the ball, THEN the offensive line. The Dallas Cowboys couldn't even block for KB if he can't decide where he wants the ball.
I respect your opinion but I totally disagree. It ALL starts up front on both sides of the ball. I also believe that the '17 offense missed '16 starting center Jay Guillermo a lot more than most people know. His experience in making the calls at the line of scrimmage and having an accurate snap to the QB's hands (not high nor low) as well as his "toughness" on the field. Right tackle was also not as consistent as it needed to be. With those two issues up front, it alone affects any QB's ability to "read and execute" against almost any defense.
With that said, we still need improvement at the quarterback position whether it's #2, #16 or anybody else. And at the running back position (especially with pass blocking). And, at the wide out position. They need to get better separation from the DB as well as going up and fighting for the ball.
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Clemson Conqueror [11662]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2014
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Re: New Story: Can Clemson win National Championship in 2018? Yes, but offense has to improve
Feb 12, 2018, 1:21 PM
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Sir. You nailed it. More separation and toughness from the wide outs. Better blocking up front and more blocking from the backs. Tight ends need to contribute too. Then the qb (whoever it is) will be a Heistman candidate.
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Trainer [47]
TigerPulse: 93%
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Simple answer is Yes of Course
Feb 12, 2018, 9:01 AM
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But for this too happen gotta have better blocking from offensive line, better execution from QBs and play calling has too improve, would love our offense too click like the Eagles and Patriots did in the Superbowl and it could we have the talent and skill players just gotta be a mindset change from the Co- Offensive coordinators. But I expect us too be in the playoffs and possibly the national championship game this upcoming season with who we have on roster and who's coming in. Hopefully I'm right and not wrong but Clemson should win it all this season.
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Clemson Conqueror [11662]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2014
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Re: Simple answer is Yes of Course
Feb 12, 2018, 1:30 PM
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I like the way you think! 
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Commissioner [942]
TigerPulse: 40%
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Re: Simple answer is Yes of Course
Feb 12, 2018, 3:42 PM
[ in reply to Simple answer is Yes of Course ] |
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He had idea as to how to direct the game. Basically a running back.
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Recruit [90]
TigerPulse: 87%
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Re: New Story: Can Clemson win National Championship in 2018? Yes, but offense has to improve
Feb 12, 2018, 9:47 AM
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I am 100% sure that if we score more points than our opponents, we will win.
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Hall of Famer [8260]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: New Story: Can Clemson win National Championship in 2018? Yes, but offense has to improve
Feb 12, 2018, 9:54 AM
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60% of the time, it works every time
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Orange Blooded [4378]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Re: New Story: Can Clemson win National Championship in 2018? Yes, but offense has to improve
Feb 12, 2018, 1:31 PM
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Clemson Conqueror [11662]
TigerPulse: 100%
46
Posts: 14280
Joined: 2014
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Ring of Honor [23485]
TigerPulse: 100%
53
Posts: 24239
Joined: 2003
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We had no Mike WIlliams or Jordan Leggett.
Feb 12, 2018, 10:30 AM
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Because of no superstar threat, they were able to isolate their focus on Hunter Renfrow. And because our playcalling is extremely conservative, this, plus their unrelenting pressure on our O-line, was enough to keep us out of the game.
The reason we lost to Alabama was 3-fold.
1. Their players were playing/executing at an extremely high level.
2. Their coaches had a superior gameplan.
3. We didn't have enough insane talent in the passing game to overcome it this time.
If we are going to win the national championship, we have to become more aggressive offensively and do a better job of using the talent we have. We have to stretch the field and not make it so easy to zero in on our strengths.
I'm not complaining, I think we had an awesome season and I am happy.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
TigerPulse: 100%
46
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Joined: 1998
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Yes ... exactly.
Feb 12, 2018, 1:07 PM
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... and I would add terrible field position that allowed the Bama defense to tee off on our OL and the inability of our play-makers to make a play that got us decent field position.
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Ring of Honor [23485]
TigerPulse: 100%
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You are right, I should have definitely included that.***
Feb 12, 2018, 1:16 PM
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Clemson Conqueror [11662]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Yes ... exactly.
Feb 12, 2018, 1:33 PM
[ in reply to Yes ... exactly. ] |
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Good point. Seemed like every Clemson drive started at the 16 and every 'Bama drive started near mid-field. Tough to win that way.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
TigerPulse: 100%
46
Posts: 16363
Joined: 1998
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To me, that's the game in a nutshell ...
Feb 12, 2018, 3:04 PM
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We had chances to flip the field in the first half and just didn't make the plays when we needed to.
I will say though, that when we got that big turnover at midfield right after the half, we sure didn't do anything with it, even though we had great field position that one time.
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Clemson Conqueror [11662]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2014
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Re: To me, that's the game in a nutshell ...
Feb 12, 2018, 4:06 PM
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Correctomundo. Clemson had two decent chances. The first was after the fumble recovery and the second was inside the ten at the end of the game. Came up empty both time. Those two plus the interceptions against the Tigers pretty much determined the outcome. Dabo is right about the importance of big plays. But something that happened all too much was 'Bama linemen pouring into Clemson's backfield in a heated rush.
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Commissioner [942]
TigerPulse: 40%
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Clemson Conqueror [11662]
TigerPulse: 100%
46
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Joined: 2014
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Re: We had no Mike WIlliams or Jordan Leggett.
Feb 12, 2018, 4:08 PM
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Mediocre against 'Bama. Very good against everyone else.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
TigerPulse: 100%
46
Posts: 16363
Joined: 1998
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Kelly Bryant is not the passer that Deshaun Watson was.
Feb 12, 2018, 7:53 PM
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No doubt!
But, going back and watching the National Championship game, we see a first quarter where nothing is going right and Deshaun looks totally overmatched.
The Tide defenders are slapping him around like a rag doll and he's air-mailing passes and looks totally out of sync.
Then suddenly, a play-maker makes a play! Deon Cain takes the little tunnel screen about 60 yards and puts us in position to score. It breathed new life into the whole team.
On the final drive, Deshaun aired it out and our guys went up and caught every pass that he tossed out there.
His throws to Williams and Leggett were not great passes.
The ones to Williams were 50/50 balls that Mike had to go up and get through sheer will and determination.
The catch leggett made was on a ball thrown way behind him.
None of those throws were any better than a lot of the balls Kelly Bryant threw against Bama this past year.
The difference was that all the play-makers (including Cain) made plays last year. Nobody made plays in this year.
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Clemson Conqueror [11662]
TigerPulse: 100%
46
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Joined: 2014
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Re: Kelly Bryant is not the passer that Deshaun Watson was.
Feb 13, 2018, 1:01 PM
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Cain was especially disappointing in the playoff this year. First quarter he has a chance to catch a 10-15 yard pass and then maybe run another 5-8 yards for an easy first down. He drops it. Later in the quarter he has a chance to make a catch deep down the right sideline, goes up for it but allows the 'Bama defender to knock it away. Could have been a big first down. Instead, zilch. And then in the 3rd quarter he allows another defender to out fight him for the ball, which pops in the air and is taken in by a second 'Bama guy for an easy pick six. Can't catch an easy one, can't catch a tough one and can't prevent a big interception. The outcome could have been different if those three plays turned out more positively for the Tigers. The year before, Williams and Leggett were catching everything. Even Cain had a big catch and run. Renfrow too. I'll say it again, DW4 was awesome, but he got help.
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Clemson Icon [25338]
TigerPulse: 100%
54
Posts: 10039
Joined: 2015
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Interesting photo you used with your story...
Feb 12, 2018, 10:37 AM
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... davidhood® REALLY shaking the ‘tnet beehive’ this week. Dang, there’s still basketball, baseball, spring practice AND 201 days until the first game! You better start pacing yourself David.
??
GO TIGERS!!!
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Playmaker [388]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Does the "depth at tight end" include Bryant moving there?***
Feb 12, 2018, 10:39 AM
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Campus Hero [14069]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2004
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+1 for referencing adjusted line yards***
Feb 12, 2018, 11:08 AM
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110%er [7834]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: New Story: Can Clemson win National Championship in 2018? Yes, but offense has to improve
Feb 12, 2018, 11:23 AM
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UGA didn’t block Bama well either. They were able to loosen them up with the ability to make quick throws and deep throws. Simple as that
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Commissioner [942]
TigerPulse: 40%
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Re: New Story: Can Clemson win National Championship in 2018? Yes, but offense has to improve
Feb 12, 2018, 3:45 PM
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They had a pretty good QB, we didn't.
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CU Guru [1116]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: New Story: Can Clemson win National Championship in 2018? Yes, but offense has to improve
Feb 12, 2018, 11:31 AM
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We will not Win A NC without TL
Playing QB !
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Campus Hero [14069]
TigerPulse: 100%
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What if HJ plays quarterback? You know that other 5-star
Feb 12, 2018, 11:38 AM
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QB on the roster that already has a year in the system.
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Ring of Honor [23485]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2003
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Commissioner [942]
TigerPulse: 40%
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Re: This is the narrative that will cause a lot of problems.
Feb 12, 2018, 3:33 PM
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You haven't seen this freshman. Tell me which QB on the Clemson is better than him. Right now!
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Commissioner [942]
TigerPulse: 40%
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Re: This is the narrative that will cause a lot of problems.
Feb 12, 2018, 3:34 PM
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Who??
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Ring of Honor [23485]
TigerPulse: 100%
53
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Joined: 2003
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You have no idea how good he is as a college QB.
Feb 12, 2018, 6:06 PM
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How can anyone possibly compare him to other college quarterbacks yet?
I just hope the QB who gives us a chance to win plays. I don't care who that is.
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110%er [8867]
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Commissioner [942]
TigerPulse: 40%
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Commissioner [942]
TigerPulse: 40%
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110%er [8867]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: New Story: Can Clemson win National Championship in 2018? Yes, but offense has to improve
Feb 13, 2018, 4:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: New Story: Can Clemson win National Championship in 2018? Yes, but offense has to improve ] |
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We have three other viable qbs. Hunter Johnson, chase Brice, Trevor Lawrence. I don’t see TL coming in and immediately knowing our playbook better then Brice who is a redshirt freshman or Hunter Johnson. Johnson was never put in the game with the first string offense. With a full season and off season under their belts one of those two has a better shot at following KB
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Game Changer [2021]
TigerPulse: 98%
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Re: problems in retrospect
Feb 12, 2018, 12:30 PM
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was offensive line too inconsistent, no tight end to stretch the field, not enough deep throws where you complete them or not to back a defense off the ball, and no adaptability to roll your QB out of pressure if he is getting smacked in the pocket, need to stop the fake to the RB and if you are going to run then run and if you are going to throw then throw the ball. Bama's plan was to get after the QB where he handed of or not. That split second in faking allowed their defense to get after him. Throw in a weak kicking game and sooner or later you will get exposed. But, all in all a good year especially when you put a beat down the "chickens" and when you get beat by the eventual National Champions then there is really nothing to complain about. Now, go get it Tigers.
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Commissioner [942]
TigerPulse: 40%
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Re: problems in retrospect
Feb 12, 2018, 3:26 PM
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Well yes, I agree. But we need to beat Alabama, and we will.
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Ultimate Tiger [33089]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Why is this on the football bored ? This is about Bball,
Feb 12, 2018, 3:26 PM
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right ? ? ? ?
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Commissioner [942]
TigerPulse: 40%
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Re: Why is this on the football bored ? This is about Bball,
Feb 12, 2018, 3:27 PM
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Not with me.
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Rival Killer [2916]
TigerPulse: 100%
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In my humble opinion, it is very simple why the
Feb 12, 2018, 5:41 PM
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offensive line looked bad. We could not throw the ball deep. The opponents knew that and stacked the box. Five linemen trying to block seven defenders is not going to end well. If we had used a QB that could throw the ball around, then the defense would not stack the box, which in turn means we could run the ball. Pretty simple.
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Offensive Star [321]
TigerPulse: 35%
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Our QB was less than average
Feb 12, 2018, 6:39 PM
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Could have boiled this entire page down to one simple fact. We didn't pay our best QB.
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Orange Elite [5492]
TigerPulse: 89%
38
Posts: 11946
Joined: 2001
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Re: Our QB was less than average
Feb 12, 2018, 10:53 PM
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Yes we did
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All-TigerNet [11934]
TigerPulse: 100%
46
Posts: 16363
Joined: 1998
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We didn't "pay" our best QB ... Freudian slip?
Feb 13, 2018, 3:56 PM
[ in reply to Our QB was less than average ] |
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If you weren't paying Jake Bentley, then who WERE you paying??
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Rival Killer [2790]
TigerPulse: 100%
33
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WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH CU ADMISSIONS?
Feb 13, 2018, 12:15 PM
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Wrong bored.
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110%er [8867]
TigerPulse: 100%
43
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Re: New Story: Can Clemson win National Championship in 2018? Yes, but offense has to improve
Feb 14, 2018, 3:44 AM
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Absolutely when the offense gels like our defense has. Qb has got to be addressed, but I’m assuming that is a priority
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Trainer [28]
TigerPulse: 48%
3
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Re: New Story: Can Clemson win National Championship in 2018? Yes, but offense has to improve
Feb 14, 2018, 9:37 PM
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Our plplays are not well designed, very conservative and predictable. It points to the OCs. They are great guys and recruiters but not OC. We do not adapt well and don't take advantage of opposing teams weakness. Time for change or we will be mediocre. Great talent has covered up poor OCs and that is not fair to team.
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