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2025 Clemson Defense
Tiger Boards - Clemson Football
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Replies: 32
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2025 Clemson Defense

6

Dec 24, 2024, 11:38 AM
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Since defense is the hot topic right now I'm going to jump in the fray. I saw a post suggesting Clemson hire a DC that runs a 3-4 scheme, which got me thinking: what are the top defenses in the country running?

Below are the top 10 defenses in the country in order of yards allowed per game, along with the scheme they run (I've also included Clemson for comparison):

1. Ohio State: 242.2 yds/game (4-2-5)
2. Indiana: 256.3 (4-2-5)
3. Texas: 261.1 (4-2-5)
4. Penn St: 280.0 (4-2-5)
5. NIU: 284.6 (4-2-5)
6. Minnesota: 290.9 (4-3)
7. Tennessee: 293.2 (4-2-5)
8. Notre Dame: 295.3 (multiple)
9. Oregon: 301.8 (4-3/4-2-5 hybrid; which is close to what Clemson does)
10. Louisana Tech: 301.9 (4-3)
73. Clemson: 374.1 (4-3/4-2-5 hybrid)

There's a lot of info unaccounted by simply looking at total yds per game, but a pattern is emerging..

While some may point out that doing things simply because it's the way they've been done before is wrong, it's also wrong to go making changes solely to do something different.

Changing an entire defensive scheme requires re-tooling/re-teaching current players and new players and changing up what players are recruited going forward. It also guarantees that the defense would not improve in the short-term, as it would be unrealistic to expect that the turnaround would be immediate.

So what's the solution? Co-DCs? New DC? Different position coaches? Or maybe a combination of all 3?

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense

4

Dec 24, 2024, 12:16 PM
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When you get ran on for 290 yards, and 3-4 isn't helping that. Tigernet coaches don't know what they don't know, which is in depth football schemes.

And yes, I've played mike linebacker in college, under 3 different coordinators, running a 4-3 and a 3-4. Before you wonder why I'm any different.

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense

3

Dec 24, 2024, 12:57 PM
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Interesting topic. I posted in another thread that I don't expect any changes to personnel. I honestly believe this was a Dabo issue. Was never a good idea to put pwoo at DE. He said the other coaches said they didn't need a portal DE or a backer.

So, what is the fix. For me, it's the Jimmy and Joe's. Rank wise, we've recruited great on the dline. We rarely got pressure with 4. Why we didn't blitz every down and play an 8 man front at Texas is beyond me.

However, that said, even all year to cupcakes, the backend was constantly out of position or taking bad angles. Why??? That's why I think we need some change. That's one problem we didn't have with cbv.

Love to hear y'all take. I didn't play obvious but my nephew and friends did thru d3 and d2 college. Most were oline.

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense

2

Dec 24, 2024, 2:44 PM
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Peter Woods started out the year at DE because our coaches knew that we lacked another true starter quality DE to go along with TJ Parker.

Back in Spring practice or pre-season Summer camp, Dabo was saying that the 0lan for Peter Woods was for him to get down from ~310 lb to ~295 lb. This modest weight reduction was meant to increase the speed of Woods at the expense of making him a bit less stout when taking on double teams. Then, as the opening game against UGA was imminent, we learn that Peter Woods is at 315 lb.

Whether or not that undesirable additional ~20 lb. made that big of a difference (detrimental factor) that motivated our coaches to end the Peter Woods at DE experiment, or whether Woods’ injury against NC State scared the coaches into backing away from the Woods / DE plan, or whether the reasonable success we had playing J.Lawson / Denhoff / Hoeffler at DE while our Cupcake University opponents were still on the menu, I haven’t a clue.

As for Dabo’s cheery pronouncement that our DE group was plenty good enough, and that is why we skipped pursuing a portal DE sounds like CoachSpeak 101. At that point in time, either we were unsuccessful acquiring a portal DE, or we didn’t try (because we didn’t want to discourage D.Mayo from bailing before the fall semester started), or because he really thought the P.Woods at DE plan was a sure winner. Regardless of what actually went wrong, after it was too late to fix the DE problem, there was no purpose Dabo saying that ‘other than TJ Parker, our DEs are not ready yet to give us what we need from them, but we’re stuck.’

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense

2

Dec 24, 2024, 2:54 PM [ in reply to Re: 2025 Clemson Defense ]
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We need help at DE. And you’re correct, moving Woods to DE was a great idea if our other DTs could one stay healthy and play to their potential. Payton Page I love him to death great Tiger but he never lived up to what he was in HS. He was bigger and stronger and dominated. He got injured gained so much bad weight it took him 2 years to get back on the field. If Page was what he was pre injury we may have had a chance with PWoo out wide. But we needed disruption in the middle to help the edges and we never really got that after Demonte got hurt. The younger guys were in but they need some weight or weight room. Having another DE to help TJ will be huge. It will keep PWoo inside with the younger guys and hopefully Heldt will give us that spark we missed last year. Anything will suffice more than what we got consistently this year.

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense

14

Dec 24, 2024, 3:48 PM [ in reply to Re: 2025 Clemson Defense ]
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I played ball until I was 27 and coached a few years beyond that. We were only lacking at DE depth including a starter. PWoo was a bad experiment.

What I have seen is incredibly undisciplined pass rush integrity. The pass rush should collapse the pocket in on the QB without allowing escape lanes. Linebackers should plug any gaps the pass rush leaves unless they are pulled due to assignments. The DE constantly lost outside contain and rarely turned the play back to the interior. Gap integrity was garbage all year.

In rush defense I saw the same type of issues. Low gap integrity with help almost always out of position. Too many bites on eye Candy. Terrible arm tackling. I always taught tackle the hips because the hips don’t lie. Never follow their head, eyes, or feet. Stick your shoulder on their hip and bring your hand like a club to dislodge the football.

Beyond pass rush I see linebackers missing multiple assignments. RB and TE running free on late release wheel routes or down the middle of the field wide open. Carter was the most egregious. Bad presnap reads slanting the dline the wrong direction or not at all. Play calls coming in far too late.

Lack of a stud run stopping safety. Even when we have 8 in the box (single high) and the safety walks up in the box they aren’t disrupting the play. Think Tanner Muse or Simmons blowing up the RB or QB run. Sammy is trying to fill that role but can’t cover like a true hybrid.

The corners and safeties lose leverage to WR too easily. They also take bad angles and lose phase which causes them to make horrible pass interference plays to stop the home run. When they play press man, they don’t jam the receivers up and get burnt because of it. They don’t use their hand to violently break off of wide receiver blocks either. They look like they are on roller skates. Hence the many explosive runs given up this year.

Terrible play calls on third and long. The defense will be dominating on first and second down playing aggressive zone blitz packages or outright blitzes then drop eight into a deep zone with huge soft spots. That usually results in 3rd and 16 getting picked up easily. Those in coverage have horrible spacing and fail to rotate help quickly enough.

There also seems to be lack of development. True freshman seem to burst on the scene and play extremely well their first season while regressing the next couple of years. Quality Depth seems to be an issue as well. Lack of gameplan adjustments to stop what the offense is doing well. Zero half time adjustments.

The issues are many and are glaring. Talent is mostly in place. Execution is not.

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense

3

Dec 24, 2024, 4:12 PM
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God it feels good to read a sane post on this forum. The biggest question to me is how are our staff on defense not seeing this? Or are they and they're unable to correct it?

I'm been unable to find the root cause, because our current dline coaches are experienced....so that leads me to believe it's a depth/talent issue there. Our LBs are talented, but always doing the wrong thing. I noticed in our game against Texas that whenever we had someone running at the QB freely they would slow up to bat the pass instead of continuing to press down and shorten the QBs response time.

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense

2

Dec 24, 2024, 11:32 PM
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My goodness. I can't thank you all enough for the excellent responses. This is what T-Net used to be. This kind of feedback.

It definitely seems to be a pattern on the freshman flash with talent, then get soft, overweight, never live up to the rated talent. That happens some, but far too often the last few years. Sounds like we lost more with CBV leaving because of fundamentals than scheme. Wish I could give you all a million bucks.

OneJedi®, RememberTheDanny, RarePelican

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense


Dec 24, 2024, 11:33 PM
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And ditto to Clemson hitter

Clemsonhitter®

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Is the defense guided and directed...


Dec 25, 2024, 8:20 AM [ in reply to Re: 2025 Clemson Defense ]
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essentially by one voice, do the POS coaches defer or behave like chiefs rather than indians during practice week?

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense


Dec 24, 2024, 11:51 PM [ in reply to Re: 2025 Clemson Defense ]
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Not sure about the press coverage bc they almost never press and leave a 6-8 yd cushion regardless of down and distance.

The rest of this is spot on.

Id add and I'm sure you will agree the last half of the year Alignment presnap has been bad. Splits are too wide to stop alot of the power plays and counter plays, the LBs were lining up outside their gap assignments or over the outside DE making things easier for the OL to get to them in the second level. That was a huge issue in the game against Texas that and any motion bc the guys were not getting lined up properly to prevent giving up formation leverage.

This is a coaching a schematical issue. The dudes were here this past year. Next year DE and LB will be an injury or 2 away from being a MASSIVE issue.

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense


Dec 31, 2024, 4:17 PM
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I think the linebackers shading outside was to attempt the help with the outside runs when the DEs sometimes weren’t. But that left too much on the inside guys to consistently win their matchups. Idk why he changed to that 3-4-4 scheme because one we don’t have a TRUE DT to run that. You need a clogger in the middle. A 330-350 DT that’s gonna command attention. And Capeheart was doing it but he needs some more weight. IF we’re doing that. But our best bet with our current roster is a 4-2-5. Hear me out… Sammy and Wade can run sideline to sideline. Wade might not be your run stopping LB but he needs to move to the nickel/star position where he can use his athleticism and make plays. We need another thumper that can move on the other side of Brown. But we can still use Wade as the second linebacker and bring Cardo Jones in that spot and keep Hampton/Barnes/Terrell/Griffin back and hopefully another year they will get stronger and be better. Maybe a new scheme allows them to play freer and play faster. I remember players saying a defense coordinator’s defense was too complex. So we shall see

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense

1

Dec 24, 2024, 12:58 PM [ in reply to Re: 2025 Clemson Defense ]
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Nm

Dahamp2003

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense


Dec 31, 2024, 4:45 PM [ in reply to Re: 2025 Clemson Defense ]
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You played Mike linebacker in a 4-3 defense? Tell me more

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense

2

Dec 24, 2024, 12:49 PM
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Years ago Dallas was facing a team in playoofs that had a great runningback

All the talking heads were sure the rb would run all over the Dallas 4-3 Flex defense

Come game day Dallas was in a 5 - 3 Flex defense and won handily

Would have loved to see something unique against TX

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Agree... 5-2-4 w/LBs wide and safeties in the middle. Screws their blocking plan***

1

Dec 24, 2024, 2:18 PM
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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense

1

Dec 24, 2024, 12:51 PM
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Solution is better, faster players.

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense

3

Dec 24, 2024, 12:52 PM
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Some people would say we just need to adjust our expectations. I know I've shared here before how a former neighbor (Clemson grad) certain of his own enlightenment over that of everyone else, told me how Danny Ford and our championship was the worst thing ever to happen for Clemson. HIs reason was that the success we enjoyed under him left a taste in our mouths for a level of success that could never be realized again... the big boys are just too big and we are just too small. Not only does that kind of talk anger me just about every time I hear it no matter the subject, his unfounded arrogance was fully exposed very soon thereafter when we went on a tear that included two additional NC's. I say this now, because we do have a taste for winning. We know for a fact we can win on the biggest of stages and keep doing so. But something has changed and for us to enjoy that level of success something needs to be corrected.

Something during those good years saw us able to recruit, develop and prepare like we havent in several years. Some will say we havent recruited well. I cant argue with them, but I dont understand how/why. We went from truly mediocre to the top of the heap. One would think it easier to recruit at the top. Development. Remember how our players came in good and got better as a general rule? This seems to be missing. How about game prep? When was the last time we demonstrated locked on preparation for a game against a top 25 opponent? How about bowl prep? I remember when Dabo was new as our HC we would get reports during bowl season about the efforts at prep that caused me to wonder if our bowl prep would prove to be an injury factory - they demonstrated a hunger that exceeded the competition. What about our strength and conditioning? We enjoyed a number of years of not getting pushed around like we have in the last 2 or 3.

I dont know enough about the insides of college football to have an informed opinion, I know only that something has changed and its hit us hard. We thought Riley was going to be good for us - and he does seem to have produced some improvement with the help of some new assistants. Goodwin? To look at him doesnt inspire confidence, but does anyone question whether he knows X's and O's?

I dont have a clue what is the problem or the fix, but I have no doubt Dabo and the coaching staff realize we have one and want to fix it. So, I'll wait til they have.

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense

2

Dec 24, 2024, 1:21 PM
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I’m with you in regards to your neighbor - that defeatist attitude drives me up a wall

Speaking personally, there are way too many factors to consider for someone who’s not inside the program to be able to get a good read on what is right or wrong.

One thing I will point out is the mentality of the guys that made those championships possible - from the player level, we saw absolute integrity and accountability at the player level and it had a positive impact on the program as a whole. Combining that type of culture that Clemson was renowned for along with the level of talent over that stretch was capturing lightning in a bottle which year after year is extremely difficult.

The sport I think is much more difficult than it was 10 years ago for many reasons. If Dabo can get Clemson back to the pinnacle, his legacy is cemented. If not, some will always say “if only” but the fact is CDS will be the best coach this program has ever seen, period.


Message was edited by: Jimmy_GreenBeans®


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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense

2

Dec 24, 2024, 3:02 PM [ in reply to Re: 2025 Clemson Defense ]
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The scarcity of top quality depth at the LB position over the past 2 seasons may have made our coaches reluctant to hold rough and tumble practices at all.

In cases like ours where there is a huge difference between our top 3 LBs and all of the others, we simply could not afford to play the second stringers when the score was not already a blowout.

We all saw what happened to our defense against an ‘offensively challenged’ Pitt team … who played the entire game with their 2nd stringers QB …when Woodaz was out for the entire game and after Sammy Brown got ejected for targeting. Our best backup to Sammy & Woodaz was targeted by Pitt via pass plays to the Pitt TE that our backup LB was covering. Easy TD to the TE, and in the waning minute of the game, Pitt marched straight down the field to be in position to take shots at our end zone.

If there was ever a lesson that our coaches needed to learn, then they learned it in the Pitt game: We could not afford to play our LBs beneath the three starter quality LBs against am opponent with a pulse.

Thus, soft practices became a necessity.

The solution? Get more better LBs.

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense

2

Dec 24, 2024, 1:02 PM
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3-4 and 4-3 are dated defenses. As pointed out, almost all defenses are base nickle. This is due to offenses having 3wr base sets. The only reason we started running the 4-3 more this year was we had trouble with the run, and wanted to get Brown on the field.

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense

8

Dec 24, 2024, 1:25 PM
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3-4 is a terrible defensive scheme because there's 0 margin for error. If you have the perfect puzzle pieces it works, if you don't, it's horrible. We don't have the personnel at all to run a 3-4. Our issue is not really scheme. It's fundamentals and playcalling.

First, let me explain how a good 4-3 defense is supposed to look. There should be two 5 technique defensive ends. These are smaller defensive ends than in a 3-4, but a bit more athletic. They are only responsible for one gap at a time, typically focusing on QB contain (so the outside). The defensive tackles are more important in this formation. The 1 technique should be lined up in the strong A gap, and draw a double team. He's the biggest and strongest defensive tackle in your team. Some call him a nose tackle here, because he still lines up across the nose of the center, just like in an old 5-2 defense. Finally, the most important defensive tackle is the 3 technique. He should be bigger than the ends, but more athletic than the 1. He needs the ability to float on the weakside to help the linebackers. I'll talk about the linebackers if needed, but I think I can make the point without it. All that you need to know right now is that the Sam should be on the strong side and be your strongest linebacker, the Mike is sideline to sideline, and the Will, your most athletic linebacker, should be on the backside.

The idea is that with the 4-3, you don't have to read an offense that precisely, because every defender has a gap. If they're guarding that gap, you shouldn't be allowing runs. In that vein, it's extremely important to keep 7 in the box at all times, unless the offense shows they're running 4 or 5 receivers. If the will drops into coverage, the FS or SS needs to come into the box and take their gap. Otherwise you'll get killed on draws.


We mostly try to do this, but we have horrible technique and fundamentals (which go beyond bad tackling and good handwork, another issue). Let me show you what I mean by fundamentals and technique.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwfO5OdFDQ8


Start at :35. This is a weird play. On this play, someone isn't doing their job. On the strong-side of the offense, Texas outnumbers us. Even more importantly, TJ Parker has pulled inside of the offensive tackle and is now in the B gap. Because of that, Wade should be taking the C gap that would normally be Parker's responsibility. But Barrett is over on that side, and he's lined up OUTSIDE the tight end. That means the C gap is unaccounted for. The running back goes right up the C gap for a 5 yard gain. That is just the players not knowing where to line up.

Now, :42. The linemen lined up properly here. However, Denhoff attacked the offensive tackle straight up instead of the outside shoulder. That leaves him unable to adjust to the screen. More importantly, Goodwin has the linebackers playing very far back. There are not 7 guys in the box any longer, and it creates a long time to adjust. I don't know why you'd have your backers playing 7 yards off the line on 2nd and 5. Combine that with Khalil taking a bad angle to the running back, and you allow a first down.

:51. I can't see what happened here, but looks like Sammy got pulled away from the middle of the field by the slot receiver, and whoever should have moved into the zone didn't, allowing a quick strike for another first down. You also have pretty bad tackling technique on display here.

1:00. This is picture perfect 4-3 defense. They all did everything right here. Everyone accounted for their gaps and kept in their zones. Woods drew the double team he was supposed to, Tre properly floated into the B gap (Tre has much better fundamentals than Page), and the 5 techniques focused on contain. As a result, Quinn can't see the open receiver, panics, and Tre makes the sack.

1:08. This was an excellent playcall and almost everyone did their jobs properly. Someone probably should have been quicker to recognize the WR screen so Wade wouldn't have to fly over there late, but it's an overall good defensive play just countered by better offensive play.

1:17. Horrible play here. They tried to cross assignments for Denhoff and Page, but (1) Page let himself just get bullied out of the B gap and (2) Carter is in the wrong place.



I could keep going, but I think this was enough to make my point. It's not an issue of us running the 4-3. When we do it correctly, it can be very effective. It's that (1) our players often find themselves out of position, (2) our linebackers and safeties play too far back which allows teams to set up their blocks and forces us to take bad angles to make the tackles, and (3) our players often get out-leveraged or pushed out of position. Those are problems that are more systemic than simply changing our scheme. It points both to Goodwin's lack of aggression (notice that he didn't disguise or bring a single blitz on those plays) and to our positional coach's inability to teach basic fundamentals.

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense

1

Dec 24, 2024, 2:48 PM
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Great analysis. Besides the Xs and Os, these players feed off of their coaches, mentally and physically. They can sense the drive and determination the coaches put out there. That has been lacking on this team since Venables left. No physicality or violence. Clemson’s defense reflects poor coaching and leadership. Some on here want to keep the orange glasses on but the drop off of this defense has been astonishing, especially since Venables recruits have left.
If Goodwin remains, this team will be lucky to only have four losses next season.

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense

1

Dec 24, 2024, 3:33 PM
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Thanks, I appreciate it. I was a high school defensive coordinator back in the day before I went to law school. I loved the Xs and Os and I rarely get the chance to do analysis. Goodwin is incredibly smart (I think he's likely the smartest of our coaches), but his past as an analyst has him not understand the mental aspects of the game and instead focus on the mathematically lowest risk plays. That's an important aspect of the game, but a defensive coordinator needs to realize that sometimes its worth risking the big play in order to attack the offense. I don't think Venables was incredibly smart, but he understood that better than anyone. Yeah, it led to us getting torched sometimes, but most of the time, we overwhelmed and intimidated offenses with our hyper aggression. Kirby Smart does very similar things, and so did Penn State in their playoff game.

For next season, it's so hard to speculate. I don't see a clear route for the defense to be any better with him remaining in the DC role (I'd love to keep him as an analyst), since we're losing some real talent and the backups aren't as good. But I do think our offense continues to improve under Riley. At this point, if we kept him, I'd guess we finish with 2-3 losses and again win the ACC, but lose in the playoffs. But so much can change.

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense

3

Dec 24, 2024, 2:05 PM
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My .02 on the defensive issues.

1. Missing the forest for the trees scheme wise. I actually think the LBs are doing what they're supposed to for the most part, but they don't understand how it fits into the defense. Call it what you want, there's many terms, but the idea of force/scrape, outside/inside leverage I'm seeing them do, except the outside leverage guy thinks as long as the RB is inside of him he did his job. Except he's getting run so far outside there's a giant gap between inside/outside leverage guys. The point is to get outside leverage but not so much that the rb just keeps running. It's to force him to actually bounce it way outside taking too much time and get run down, or cut back inside where an inside LB cleans up. There should be no space or hole to run through.

It's essentially the same thing as telling a pass rush to get up field, ignoring spacing with a running QB. They can get up field and think they've won because they got pressure, but if the QB has gaping holes due to spacing he can just run for 8-10 yards through it defects the purpose. This is what I'm seeing during running plays. A guy clearly has outside leverage and just runs himself out of the play, so far that he's basically not even leveraging anything. The RB just continues the way he was running before, outside.

2. The other issue is aggressiveness. Under Venables, LBs and safeties would fly up to make a tackle, and even if they missed, slow the runner up enough that a second wave would clean it up quickly. Now, we have players that run up and break down, like they're the last defense against a TD, which allows them to get juked easily or outrun on angles for more yardage. Much like a prevent defense. Just my .02, but we have players. They just don't look like they're playing wide open in a feast or famine style. More like death by a thousand papercuts style.

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense

1

Dec 24, 2024, 2:08 PM
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Also, Jaedyn Lukus is terrible. His effort is why he's bad. He totally gave up on that post route where Terrell almost broke it up from the other side of the field.

Terrell reminds me of Booth or Alexander, just less disciplined. He needs to get better but has a high cieling. He's usually in position just freaks out and grabs too much.

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense

2

Dec 24, 2024, 2:15 PM
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You can't effectively execute a 3-4 without a black hole of a nose tackle. Dexter Lawrence would be the most recent in the program and there is no one that fits that mold on the current roster, even Peter Woods.

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense

1

Dec 24, 2024, 3:03 PM
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D.J. Reader.

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense

5

Dec 24, 2024, 2:16 PM
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Clean house. A new DC and let HIM pick his assistants. Only way. 👍🏿🐅

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense


Dec 24, 2024, 4:32 PM
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As a Tnet Coach I offer no advice to the Clemson Staff on how to fix the defense. That's what they get paid a lot of money to do. Dabo must decide if the Coaches are living up to their Contracts or if a change is needed. We will find out in due time.

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense


Dec 24, 2024, 9:47 PM
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The results speak for themselves.

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense


Dec 24, 2024, 4:41 PM
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WWDD

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Re: 2025 Clemson Defense


Dec 31, 2024, 4:30 PM
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The sole problem with Clemson's defense is HEART. They tackle like they're playing flag football, The
LBs and Secondary guys are always out of place. Clemson need a "tough guy" to run their defense. What I saw Michigan do to Alabama was tough, hard-nosed defense. I have to give them credit because their offense stunk. Running off-taclke plays all game was a testament to Sharrone Moore's inability to call offensive plays. Their OC is as inconsistent as Lincoln Riley. But in spite of this, that defense did it's job. They reduced Jalen Milroe to a running QB that didn't know how to read a defense. (I wish Clemson had their DC).That was good ol' Agile, Mobile and Hostile defense. I was impressed. that's why they beat Ohio State in Columbus.

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