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Replies: 38
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Asst Coach [744]
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Portal usage effecting recruiting
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Jan 24, 2024, 2:41 PM
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I know everyone has an opinion on how we use the portal, but something to think about is the impact it has on HS recruiting. We are the only school in the country that can honestly look a recruit in the eye and say they will not be replaced by the portal. I think we are starting to see the dividends of that in the 2025 class, but I hope this shows that doing things the right way will always net a positive in the long run.
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110%er [7026]
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I agree. But
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Jan 14, 2017, 12:54 AM
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It will actually HAVE to work out that way.
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Asst Coach [744]
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Re: I agree. But
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Jan 24, 2024, 2:44 PM
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Agreed, only way we can still compete is if it works.
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110%er [7219]
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Re: I agree. But
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Jan 24, 2024, 3:28 PM
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I like what we are doing....
I'll allow it.
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Orange Blooded [2218]
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biggest worry is us training recruits that will leave for money***
Jan 24, 2024, 7:05 PM
[ in reply to Re: I agree. But ] |
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Trainer [26]
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The portal is far from a guarantee
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Jan 24, 2024, 3:38 PM
[ in reply to I agree. But ] |
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We led the nation in snaps by freshmen, by a wide margin. These guys are essentially our “portal”guys.
The benefit is they are being developed in our systems and culture. Not only is it not guaranteed to find a portal guy who fits the systems and culture, you’re bringing in guys who have typically quit because of playing time or they’re just after the biggest paycheck without earning it on the field.
I like our approach. It’s actually forward thinking. The portal and NIL will likely go through some changes where teams can’t buy players at an inordinate level. Once the playing field is balanced (with a ‘salary’ cap) , then programs will be much more selective in the process and only getting potentially a couple/few guys to replace the couple/few who have left. Otherwise, once guardrails come into play it will move back to more developed programs like the traditional approach.
I truly believe Dabo and Co are staying one step ahead of this by leading the nation in freshmen snaps.
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CU Guru [1020]
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There's not going to be a NIL "salary cap".
Jan 24, 2024, 4:47 PM
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The NCAA nor the schools can regulate a business agreement between two other private parties.
So says the Supreme Court in their 9-0 NCAA vs Alston decision.
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110%er [6900]
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Yep. Clemson will have a hard time keeping up in portal
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Jan 24, 2024, 2:43 PM
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anyway, so be the positive alternative and keep your values in tact!!
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Trainer [26]
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Its a conscious approach though.
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Jan 24, 2024, 3:40 PM
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We offered some portal guys to be developed. Didn’t work out, but we also have the most freshmen snaps in the country, by far. These are team players who are learning our lingo, systems, and approach.
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Head Coach [788]
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Re: Portal usage effecting recruiting
Jan 24, 2024, 2:51 PM
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Our safety in the 2024 class from south Georgia said he chose us over FSU because of the way FSU uses the portal. Keep in mind I’m paraphrasing.
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All-TigerNet [13530]
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Re: Portal usage effecting recruiting
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Jan 24, 2024, 3:00 PM
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I think it is fair to assert that some recruits may be positively swayed in our direction because we highly prioritize high school recruits. However, I would not go as far as to say the elite programs are being hurt by their selective use of the portal. The top programs are still ranked very high in getting top prospects out of high school as well as selective talent out of the portal.
Where there could be a difference is when we are recruiting against a school that prioritizes portal recruiting over high school recruiting but that is still yet to be proven.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Elite programs can brute force everything with money piles.
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Jan 24, 2024, 3:07 PM
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So since we are not going to try to be that, for good reasons, this is our hedge. I'm fine with it.
So it's more of a hedge than an advantage.
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All-TigerNet [13530]
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Re: Elite programs can brute force everything with money piles.
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Jan 24, 2024, 3:12 PM
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That's a fair take. The disparity is only going to get larger when the B1G and SEC negotiate their new media contracts and that war chest they have is going to separate them even further in terms of money available to attract top talent. Not a lot we can do about that until we either join one of them or wait for the big reorganization to come.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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it's an intentional handcuff put on us by Dabo.
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Jan 24, 2024, 3:12 PM
[ in reply to Elite programs can brute force everything with money piles. ] |
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other programs that have similar OR LESS money than we do are capable of utilizing the portal to better their starting lineup in one way or another.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Tell me a program with less money that has a higher quality roster now.***
Jan 24, 2024, 3:13 PM
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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few things........
Jan 24, 2024, 3:29 PM
[ in reply to it's an intentional handcuff put on us by Dabo. ] |
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#1. Don't read what I'm not saying. Every program is different, every need is different. To think that Clemson is "TOO TALENTED" or "TOO ELITE" to have to utilize the portal is naïve/ignorant. There are several "worse" programs that have been able to BETTER their roster utilizing the portal. Some have gone "ALL IN" and some have strategically filled talent holes. We "wanted" an Olineman that chose GT instead. NCstate (who's beaten us 2 out of the last 3 years) has had a few portal adds this off season one of which is a better QB than what we have currently. Kent State had a WR that we could've definitely used a couple years ago, but UNC must've outbid us there too.
#2. Define "higher quality roster". Are we talking star ratings or results on the field the last 3 years? Just want to see where you'd classify Duke, NCState, Pitt, Miamis of the world and justify the close games vs the rosters of South Carolina, Wakes, & Kentuckys of the world.??
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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I don't see teams with less/similair resources building better rosters than us.
Jan 24, 2024, 4:15 PM
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Seems to me there is no point in comparing us to teams with inferior resources unless they don't also have inferior rosters. They all do.
Our problem last year was primarily coaching.
Duke's roster was inferior to our's last year. They beat us due to superior coaching. The portal was irrelevant in that game.
FSU's roster seemed about on par with our's. Maybe a tad better. Now what do they have coming back next year? If we had a single kicker in that game, we beat them.
Our roster was superior to every other team we played. Our losses were due to coaching/lack of player development.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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I won't disagree completely with the coaching & player development comment.....
Jan 24, 2024, 4:39 PM
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That was part of it and our lack of elite offensive talent was another part. We've had a "list of issues" plaguing us the last several years and those two are definitely on it.
I do however believe that our roster could've used some big talent upgrades in some areas..........again, I'm talking about only taking 4-5 portal guys (mainly offensively) to give that talent infusion. Not some complete roster/portal overhaul. Running out the collins and spectors/stellatos/greenes of the world won't get us back to ELITE.
Our offense would've been a completely different story the last 2-3 years w/ a difference making WR or two, OLineman or two, maybe even an experienced QB (ie McCall this year as an example).
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All-TigerNet [13959]
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Re: I won't disagree completely with the coaching & player development comment.....
Jan 24, 2024, 6:57 PM
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yup, and the weakest link (OL) was addressed by Dabo.
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Hall of Famer [24226]
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Legend [16262]
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Re: it's an intentional handcuff put on us by Dabo.
Jan 24, 2024, 3:53 PM
[ in reply to it's an intentional handcuff put on us by Dabo. ] |
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Are you saying here that Dabo is intentionally putting our program at a disadvantage with the way he chooses to build his roster?
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Hall of Famer [24226]
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Yes, he is. What a tool.
Jan 24, 2024, 4:34 PM
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pheebs a truly sad person.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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I'm saying there are resources available to utilize to better the program.......
Jan 24, 2024, 4:45 PM
[ in reply to Re: it's an intentional handcuff put on us by Dabo. ] |
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and he's not utilizing all the resources at his disposal. He's taking Clemson to a fight with one arm tied behind our back. We're the only FBS team in the country (sans military academies) that hasn't utilized it to our advantage........and I know our roster isn't "TOO ELITE" to use it, quite frankly nobody's roster is.
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Legend [16262]
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What if it's simply that Dabo disagrees with your take?
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Jan 24, 2024, 6:04 PM
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That he feels the program is better off going about it his way and doesn't agree that it puts us at a disadvantage? That ultimately it offers us a distinct ADvantage? Both your takes claim that Dabo is willingly choosing a lesser path forward by not doing things like many other programs or the way you and others think it should be. I'm going to defer to the Natty coaching pro's take here and not take for a moment that there is a willingness to be at a disadvantage here on his part.
I can promise you he is not telling recruits to forget about championships here because we are emphasizing the full experience, family and loyalty, and going about and readying for life the right way. He is telling them come here, do all that, and we're going to go out and compete for championships every season and can reach the mountaintop with you as a contributor. Dabo is not going to lie to these kids, and they aren't committing to come play here without believing they can be the best in the land. Willingly hampering us in any fashion, for any reason, is a total non-starter.
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Hall of Famer [24226]
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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yes***
Jan 24, 2024, 4:40 PM
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Hall of Famer [24226]
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LOL
Jan 24, 2024, 6:56 PM
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did you actually talk to him ?
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110%er [8003]
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Re: Portal usage effecting recruiting
Jan 24, 2024, 3:09 PM
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Actually, the service academies can also use the same pitch.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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But they don't have to kill anyone once football is over here at Clemson.
Jan 24, 2024, 3:12 PM
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Dabo can use that on the recruiting trail if he wants. I just try to give to Clemson in any way I can.
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All-TigerNet [13530]
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Re: Portal usage effecting recruiting
Jan 24, 2024, 3:14 PM
[ in reply to Re: Portal usage effecting recruiting ] |
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Except most top talent wants to take their shot at the NFL vs. serving in the military after they leave college...
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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the problem is, it's not working the other way around......
Jan 24, 2024, 3:09 PM
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we may "look em in the eye"........and mean it.
they may "look us in the eye".......and NOT mean it.
bottom-line is we're STILL LOSING 8-10 players a year to the portal over the last 5-6 yrs. That's roughly 33-42% of a recruiting class GONE each year to the portal, only to replace them w/ FRESHMAN again .............ie...forever young & inexperienced.
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Hall of Famer [24226]
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LOL
Jan 24, 2024, 4:30 PM
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.
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Orange Blooded [4069]
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Its not either...or
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Jan 24, 2024, 3:17 PM
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We are going to use the portal in the future. It hasn't happened yet, but you will see us use it the near future. We aren't going to have a choice. It won't be many, but will be very selective. The decision has already been made, you just cant see any of the results yet.
Again, Dabo has it right, most is HS kids, develop them and then sprinkle in a select few. David Hood brought this up the other day. Dabo is also right and kids have to want you too, but you gotta give a more concerted effort. Dabo sees that now.... and has altered course a wee bit. Just like he has on several other fronts.....
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CU Guru [1767]
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Re: Portal usage effecting recruiting
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Jan 24, 2024, 3:18 PM
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Have y’all not noticed what a stat geek Dabo is? Dabo has masterfully used the Clemson education, 4 year commitment and PAW journey and graduation rates to his advantage already. I think his emphasis of that only gets more impactful as teams turn over half their players every year. You can bet Dabo is having Bourret or someone crunch statistics on how many portal kids languish and never get picked up, never graduate, etc. You can bet he’s harping it home with the momma’s too! When teams like Bama, FL ST., and UGA lose large swaths of players annually, I’m sure Dabo is crunching the numbers to tell the players and the moms. Give this all time to play out. We gonna be just fine.
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Orange Blooded [4069]
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Re: Portal usage effecting recruiting
Jan 24, 2024, 3:23 PM
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Good points....but I wouldn't compare FSU with Bama or UGA who have really not dipped into the portal like most. Now this year Bama won't have a choice b/c of the coaching change. As Hood said the other day, just a few sprinkled in will do the trick. Offering kids earlier/slightly more kids will also help. You can see this change already. Developing HS kids is still the BEST way to go...
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CU Guru [1767]
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Re: Portal usage effecting recruiting
Jan 24, 2024, 3:42 PM
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Yes I agree, though Bama will have to be in the portal big time this year. There may be a numbers game at play too. If FL State keeps portalling like crazy there will be that many more quality hs recruits left in their footprint.
I’m good with what DH said about filling a few holes as needed, except I’d rather see us recruit hs kids for positions we lose where hs recruits need less development (ex WR, skill positions).
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All-TigerNet [13530]
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Orange Blooded [4069]
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Yep....
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Jan 24, 2024, 3:25 PM
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SLW...$$$ and NIL really isn't an issue at CLEM although many think it is. You don't get kids like Wesco, Moore, Watford, etc.....if it were.....
With subtle changes and these new hires, we are in a great spot going fwd....
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CU Guru [1767]
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Re: Yep....
Jan 24, 2024, 7:00 PM
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Plus we aren’t buying elite portal players which probably means we spend as much or more on retention per player as anyone. Holding the team together. Not splitting the locker room by buying mercenaries at higher rate than developed players.
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Replies: 38
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