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110%er [9368]
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Is the strike zone the most subjective call in sports?
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Jun 20, 2024, 8:27 AM
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It's relative for each batter, then the ump has to determine where the ball was when it crossed the plate, a couple feet in front of him, and to be able to look into an imaginary 3D box both from all perspectives and then make a determination - all in a fraction of a second.
Not posting this about any game or calls in particular, but it's just always struck me as such a subjective thing to be so significant in a game.
I think the only other call that may be as much as or more subjective would the spotting of the ball in a football game, where the ref has to determine where the ball was, while it was in the ball carrier's hands, even if the player's back was to him, and then you have forward progress when they're hit, and a team can win or lose based on an inch or two, which, I would think, would be well within a reasonable margin of error for a call like that.
The only way to make these calls precise is with technology (which exists), but do we really want to do that to the games, and remove so many human elements? I don't know. I can get both arguments.
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Freshman [-31]
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Re: Is the strike zone the most subjective call in sports?
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Jun 20, 2024, 8:28 AM
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Holding on the olineman.
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All-In [31234]
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basketball - traveling and palming the ball***
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Jun 20, 2024, 8:28 AM
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CU Medallion [59595]
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I'm pretty sure those are just ignored by choice or dictate.***
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Jun 20, 2024, 8:50 AM
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All-TigerNet [13162]
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I'm of the opinion this is a good thing
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Jun 20, 2024, 9:04 AM
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They should only call the most egregious palming/carrying violations where the players hand is completely underneath the ball and there's a visible interruption in the cadence of the dribbling.
I think basketball would be horrible to watch if they called every single ticky tack instance of palming. I want to watch a smooth, free-flowing basketball game, not one where the game is constantly interrupted by officials.
Also, basketball is better than players can drive into the pain and getting super strict with dribbling violations would make that more difficult and likely lead to more passing around the arc and more long jump shots.
Just my opinion...
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CU Medallion [59595]
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Here's the thing ... when players know the rules will actually be enforced as
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Jun 20, 2024, 11:18 AM
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written, they will adjust pretty quickly, and the game will be very smooth and free flowing, just as it was before the decision was made to ignore these particular rules as written, for the benefit of fans with short attention spans and players who don't like a bunch of rules preventing them from doing what they want to do.
I think it would be fantastic if every time a player carried the ball, it was called. I think it would be fantastic if every time a player travelled it was called. Simple. Straightforward. The rule is the rule. Stick to it or get rid of it; don't just abitrarily ignore/apply it. That's the worst possible alternative. People who are of the mindset that basketball would be slow and boring if the rules were enforced are wrong; it's boring now, largely because the rules are not enforced.
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All-TigerNet [13162]
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I don't know if it's subjective, but it's extremely
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Jun 20, 2024, 8:56 AM
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difficult to do accurately, and I think most people would fail miserably at it. My issue with baseball umpires isn't that they miss calls, but that they tend to get attitudes about it. Alot of these guys seem to enjoy going on little power trips.
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CU Medallion [59595]
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Okay, so what is the downside, in this particular case, to eliminating the
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Jun 20, 2024, 8:56 AM
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human element from this call, if the result is knowing that we're getting it right instantaneously 100% of the time?
I had this discussion with friends recently, and they parroted that line about removing the human element, and maintained that somehow, knowing that the human element is pretty inaccurate and ever-changing, it is somehow better than getting it right every time. Please explain.
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Hall of Famer [24834]
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Re: Is the strike zone the most subjective call in sports?
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Jun 20, 2024, 8:59 AM
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Full Disclosure: I don’t watch a lot of soccer.
However, the ‘tripping’ calls seem to be fairly ‘interpretive’ at times.
You guys definitely nailed the big ‘2’ with pitch calls snd holding.
Pass Interference needs honorable mention, too.
PS: ST (as you were posting when I was) I believe the ‘human element’ argument is BS. Give the pitcher credit for a strike and the batter credit for not swinging at a ball. In other words, get it ‘right’. Instant replay was supposed to do that, too, but I’m not so sure.
Message was edited by: Uncle Bill®
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Legend [17304]
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Re: Is the strike zone the most subjective call in sports?
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Jun 20, 2024, 9:00 AM
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Most fouls in basketball.
There are obvious basketball fouls, but there are plenty that aren’t called that should be and plenty that are called that shouldn’t be.
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110%er [8276]
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Re: Is the strike zone the most subjective call in sports?
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Jun 20, 2024, 9:51 AM
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Gymnastics judging. Figure skating judging.
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Hall of Famer [21791]
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Basketball the only sport with heavier ref influence.***
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Jun 20, 2024, 10:32 AM
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110%er [7403]
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Only because it occurs each play. Pass interference is
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Jun 20, 2024, 11:07 AM
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and targeting are just as subjective but don’t occur as often.
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CU Medallion [59595]
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PI occurs almost every play, but refs are extremely arbitrary and inconsistent
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Jun 20, 2024, 11:19 AM
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with that.
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110%er [5515]
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It won't be any longer if you use cameras and AI for strike zone analysis.
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Jun 20, 2024, 11:27 AM
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The machine will get it right objectively instead of the Umps and their subjective strike calling. You could even keep the human umpires but have the electronic system tell them what it recommends for the strike call. There are definitely ways to make it better and remove the "cheating umps" from the equation. Just my $0.02.
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Rock Defender [59]
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Re: Is the strike zone the most subjective call in sports?
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Jun 20, 2024, 11:56 AM
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Correct answer is…….balk
I’ve watched baseball for over 30 years and still can’t explain it consistently.
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