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Game Day Hero [4476]
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Climate change question for anyone who wants it
Jan 18, 2025, 10:13 AM
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We live in a modern world with access to science, technology and endless News cycles. I get it. But for a moment imagine you have had absolutely zero access to any news, technology, data, etc. Basically pretend we’re living like the year 1800.
Here’s the question. What evidence in your personal observations leads you to believe climate change is either a very serious concern or no concern at all? Anecdotal? Yes!! That’s what I’m asking for.
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National Champion [7186]
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Our leaves are just now starting to fall
Jan 18, 2025, 10:37 AM
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Oh wait, this is Florida, it's always like that
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Orange Immortal [62787]
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Zero.
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Jan 18, 2025, 10:50 AM
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Climate change is real. Always has been present, always will be. It's not obvious or even observable in any meanigful way to any sigular generation of humans. "It's a lot hotter now than when I was a kid", is a subjective opinion, and for example is not helpful, meaningful, or even accurate without historical data. Even with tons of historical data and advances in science, man's real contribution and ability to alter climate is still not settled.
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TigerNet Champion [118512]
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Re: Zero.
Jan 18, 2025, 1:56 PM
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right, totally a coincidence that we grew our population to over 7 billion by burning fossil fuels, while being it a known fact that carbon is opaque to the infrared spectrum, which is the frequency of light which the earth radiates heat back into space. TOTALLY not settled, thank Professor Smiling Tiger. #### sure and wrong, per usual.
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Orange Immortal [62787]
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No, you're wrong.
Jan 18, 2025, 5:33 PM
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I agree that many/most "climate scientists" believe man contributes to climate change, and that we should look for ways to limit or eliminate that contribution where possible and practical. I think that much is settled. I agree with all of that and don't challenge it.
What I don't agree is "settled" is that man has created a situation that that will doom the planet if drastic measures aren't taken right away. I am perfectly aware that many scientists believe that, but I disagree that it is "settled", as many climate scientsist don't believe that narrative, which was ultimately created by non-scientist government employees/officials who summarize the IPCC reports for policy makers.
I believe many climate scientists would tell you that man's contribution to climate change is relatively small, and that we therefore have little ability to reverse or change anything.
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Rival Killer [2916]
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"little ability to reverse or change anything"....
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Jan 18, 2025, 6:57 PM
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What if we placed 2000 nuclear bombs strategically around the planet and detonated them all at once. Do you think that would change anything in the climate?
Man has an enormous ability to impact this planet's climate.
And climate science has concluded already that we are the main contributor to the current bout of warming. We're not a small contributor.
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Paw Master [16423]
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LoL.***
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Jan 18, 2025, 7:08 PM
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Orange Immortal [62787]
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The idea that man is driving climate change with carbon emissions, and that by
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Jan 18, 2025, 8:51 PM
[ in reply to "little ability to reverse or change anything".... ] |
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reducing or eliminating them we could significantly affect climate change, is far from settled science.
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Orange Beast [6413]
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Like I said
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Jan 18, 2025, 9:08 PM
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they will believe what they believe.
If they were living in Germany in the 1930s, every one of the Libs of TNet would be turning in their Jewish neighbors and escorting them to the gas chamber because "it was settled that Jews were the problem."
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Rival Killer [2916]
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Yeah that makes a lot of sense....
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Jan 18, 2025, 9:57 PM
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On one hand, I have all the data, studies, and analysis of climate science. On the other, I have "NC Tiger" yapping about Jews being taken to the gas chambers.
You're extremely convincing in your arguments.
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Rival Killer [2916]
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Orange Immortal [62787]
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A lot of legitimate climate scientists disagree.***
Jan 19, 2025, 12:55 AM
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Orange Immortal [62787]
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Here's just one good example . . .
Jan 19, 2025, 1:12 AM
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https://www.amazon.com/Unsettled-Climate-Science-Doesnt-Matters/dp/1950665798
“The book is no polemic. It’s a plea for understanding how scientists extract clarity from complexity. And, as Mr. Koonin makes clear, few areas of science are as complex and multidisciplinary as the planet’s climate.”
—Wall Street Journal
“Essential reading and a timely breath of fresh air for climate policy. The science of climate is neither settled nor sufficient to dictate policy. Rather than an existential crisis, we face a wicked problem that requires a pragmatic balancing of costs and benefits.”
—William W. Hogan, professor of Global Energy Policy at Harvard Kennedy School
"In a carefully researched and insightful book, Steven Koonin highlights the significant uncertainty underlying climate models and statistics, the limits of technical and political responses, and the need to reassert the core values of scientific independence and integrity that drive social progress."
—William van Wijngaarden, The Journal of the Witherspoon Institute and professor of physics at York University
“Unsettled is an excellent case study on climate science, its inherent complexity and uncertainty, and a cautionary tale on how interpretive filters in the policymaking process have shaped, and sometimes misinformed, the climate policy debate. It should on be the reading list of scientists and engineers whose responsibility, as citizens, extends beyond the laboratory to communicating to a larger public often overwhelmed and confused by the media. Policymakers and politicians will find it a source of reflection for their arguments, positions, and decisions.”
—Jean-Lou Chameau, President Emeritus, Caltech
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Orange Immortal [62787]
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Rival Killer [2916]
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Koonin is not a climate scientist and his book is hot garbage....
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Jan 19, 2025, 9:23 AM
[ in reply to Here's just one good example . . . ] |
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He does not have any expertise on climate science, although many deniers like to cling to Koonin now. He's probably making a lot of money for himself. But he's spreading nonsense in order to do so, as he distracts from what actual climate scientists have said.
The first link takes on the bull-s**t in his book.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-new-book-manages-to-get-climate-science-badly-wrong/
Quoting from the 1st link:
Koonin’s intervention into the debate about what to do about climate risks seems to be designed to subvert this progress in all respects by making distracting, irrelevant, misguided, misleading and unqualified statements about supposed uncertainties that he thinks scientists have buried under the rug.
The second link takes on the bull-s**t from one of his youtubes.
https://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2019/06/koonins-case-for-yet-another-review-of-climate-science/
Quoting from the 2nd link:
This is what I don’t really understand: There is absolutely nothing new here. Every argument, point, and even some graphics, are old, stale, and previously rebunked. These points could have been made (and undoubtedly were) in official reviews of assessment reports going back years. The people making these points have undoubtedly been told this and shown responses. In Koonin’s case, I know this for a fact (for instance). And yet, they persist. There is no development of the arguments, no counter-points, no constructive back and forth, just the same arguments that they appear to have thought up once and never examined.
Personally, I like taking on smart criticisms. They help hone the science, clarify the arguments and point to areas of needed research. But there isn’t a single thing here worth taking on.
Two thumbs down.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [104530]
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Honestly?
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Jan 18, 2025, 10:53 AM
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I think the climate is changing, but I also think people are changing. And sometimes people changing is ignored and climate is blamed, or whatever else.
One very real factor never discussed is today, PEOPLE LIVE IN AC. They live in comfort, in their cars, in their houses, at movies, at work, etc. And the percentage of people who lived in conditioned spaces has climbed mightily, heated too. If you take the acreage, the square miles, the billions of square feet with conditioned air today, for every square foot, inside, in a car, whatever, every bit of heat that is REMOVED from that space, is dumped, OUTSIDE. Second, the sheer amount of surface that is now paved, with black asphalt shingles, black asphalt, or...yeah...BLACK SOLAR FARMS, they all TRAP heat. So you have more trapped heat, then HVACS working more to dump that heat into the already trapped heat, trapping more. Forget a thermometer in or near any urban area, it's the ones in BFE that still remain accurate.
Second big factor, people who live in cool air will naturally FEEL HOTTER when they leave the cool air and go into the heat. Our bodies are AMAZINGLY adapted to adjust to the heat, and to burn fat (getting there too, hang on). If we do not have the benefit of AC, in just 2-3 days, 4 tops, our bodies adapt, and the heat doesn't bother us as much. Another very physical aspect is people's diets today consist of far more sugars than in the past, and your body BURNS sugars. Go on a low carb diet and the first thing you will notice is you feel cooler, as less sugars are burned, lose some fat, and you feel even cooler. But be fat, and burn sugars, and our bodies overheat, all by themselves. This is why in the US, the average body temperature is no longer 98.6. It's decreased, and is closer to 97.9 degrees today. Because we're fat, and our diet, and our bodies adjusting to cope, along with being always at 72 degrees.
I'd argue people are changing MUCH MORE than the climate. And the climate people LIVE in, is changing far more than the Earth's climate. We're freaking out about the Earth becoming 1.5 degrees warmer, when the average human's LIVING SPACE temperature has changed 10, 20, 30+ degrees.
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Clemson Icon [27000]
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Other than pollen season, I always liked an attic fan...***
Jan 18, 2025, 11:20 AM
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CU Medallion [20185]
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A rental I lived in the ATL in 90s had a beastly attic fan
Jan 18, 2025, 5:03 PM
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Thing was awesome. Only negative was the mold we’d find in the house if we ran it too often because of humidity
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Rival Killer [2916]
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Sooooooo.....
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Jan 18, 2025, 11:05 AM
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Interesting question.
The two things I would notice in my vicinity is that spring seems to come a little earlier than in the past. I would also notice that winters are less cold than they used to be when I was a child....And I'd probably notice that it snows in my area less than it used to snow.
From that, I would put "two and two" together, and deduce that my neck of the woods in semi-rural Georgia is warming.
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Ultimate Tiger [36734]
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It's rainy and cold at the variety store***
Jan 18, 2025, 11:09 AM
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Orange Phenom [14417]
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I tend to agree with Smiling Tiger above...
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Jan 18, 2025, 11:53 AM
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Personally I don't find that temperatures feel that much different (if at all) from when I was a kid. Of course I lived most of my adult life moving every 2 to 3 years to a new location so I never really spent much time in the same place to get a full anecdotal accounting of a particular locations weather.
From just about every scientific indication the very nature of our planet has been one of alternate swings between periods of heating and cooling since the planet came into existence. Call that "climate change" if you wish.
I think most people really don't disagree that the Earth experiences climate change with periods of cooling and heating. Those temperature swings seem to be a natural phenomenon of the planet. Where we tend to disagree on Earth's "climate change" is to the real impact that humans have on the Earth's temperature and the solutions some put forth as mandatory to "fight climate change".
So... from my perspective - when a scientist says "the Earth's climate is changing" or "climate change is real" I find that to mostly be a statement of the obvious since Earth's climate has constantly been changing since it came into existence.
But when a scientist, with a religious zealots furor, states the "science is settled" and goes into stuff like human activity and cow farts are killing the planet and we are doomed in 10 years if we don't spend tons of tax money on particular interests and return to a mostly pre-industrial existence - I simply don't buy it...
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Orange Immortal [62787]
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Exactly.***
Jan 18, 2025, 5:34 PM
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Head Coach [903]
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Re: I tend to agree with Smiling Tiger above...
Jan 20, 2025, 7:57 AM
[ in reply to I tend to agree with Smiling Tiger above... ] |
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Throwing in a Rush Limbaugh reference doesn’t make you look as good as good as you think. The fat druggie is laughing about it in hell, though.
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Commissioner [1251]
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Dynasty Maker [3199]
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Orange Immortal [62787]
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Yes - the earth is in a warmimg trend.
Jan 18, 2025, 5:38 PM
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I don't think anybody questions that.
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Dynasty Maker [3199]
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lol
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Jan 18, 2025, 7:12 PM
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its not that change is occuring... its RATE OF CHANGE.
I'm blown away by people who still don't understand the issue.
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Heisman Winner [86206]
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It's useless, I've tried.***
Jan 20, 2025, 8:40 AM
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TigerNet Champion [118512]
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what evidence do we have that you are not a transgender female?
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Jan 18, 2025, 1:59 PM
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none that I can see, it would be "anecdotal" at best.
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TigerNet Legend [147468]
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So, like, you're looking for the opposite of bringing a snowball
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Jan 18, 2025, 2:42 PM
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onto the floor of Congress as proof that climate change doesn't exist?
Both are pretty pointless that that level.
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Game Day Hero [4476]
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Re: So, like, you're looking for the opposite of bringing a snowball
Jan 18, 2025, 2:51 PM
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These last 2 posts are pretty pointless.
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CU Medallion [20340]
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Property insurance costs, losses and willingness to provide coverage***
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Jan 18, 2025, 3:20 PM
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Game Changer [1934]
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Re: Property insurance costs, losses and willingness to provide coverage***
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Jan 18, 2025, 10:27 PM
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That is correct. If you have any questions about the existence of climate change, or the severity and impacts of client change, just go talk to a senior finance person at an insurance company.
Talk to somebody that understands the market for residential property insurance in Florida.
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Oculus Spirit [41813]
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The global temperature has risen 1 degree in our lifetime
Jan 18, 2025, 3:21 PM
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and you can feel it
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1st Rounder [692]
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Re: Climate change question for anyone who wants it
Jan 18, 2025, 3:58 PM
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While I was living in Hawaii folks from Pacific Islands were arriving … moving. Their islands were becoming inundated too regularly and salt water intrusion was getting too extreme.
This was seen by me … also some areas of Maui’s shoreline were changing, seen by me.
This does not speak to the seriousness, only to the reality.
Message was edited by: Willyumyum®
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Orange Immortal [62787]
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What caused that?***
Jan 18, 2025, 5:39 PM
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Oculus Spirit [41813]
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Cars Cows and Electricity
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Jan 18, 2025, 5:55 PM
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the solution is taxes and regulation
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Orange Immortal [62787]
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Orange Beast [6413]
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Your personal observations and experiences
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Jan 18, 2025, 9:12 PM
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are statistically meaningless.
The entire recorded history of weather is statistically insignificant.
Can you people come to grips with this?
With that said, I am not saying either side is right or wrong. I am simply stating that your and all opinions are just that...opinions. There are too many variables and too much yet to be learned about the earth and the sun.
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Game Changer [1934]
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Re: Climate change question for anyone who wants it
Jan 18, 2025, 10:23 PM
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Zone 7 Landscape Center in Seneca is now in zone 8.
The grow zones are moving, or the planet is warming, depends on how you want to look at it, but it’s happening.
So the Republicans figure the best thing to do is continue subsidizing fossil fuels. And then when we have our next $200 billion wildfire event in California, we can offer our thoughts and prayers and tap into the government coffers to backstop insurance companies, municipalities, and state sponsored insurance funds.
That’s right have the government subsidizes the exact things that cause climate change and then government can pay 10s of billions to pick up the pieces.
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Game Day Hero [4476]
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Re: Climate change question for anyone who wants it
Jan 19, 2025, 5:36 AM
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As a very experienced landscaper I’ll give some advice on those zone 8 plants. Be careful and choose the right location. A couple of years ago some of those took massive damage when we hit 6 degrees with minus 15 wind chill in the upstate. This week is also supposed to be really cold but not as bad as it was then. I’m not getting political with this. I’m just talking from landscaper experience. Research a zone 8 plant well before planting.
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Legend [6854]
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Re: Climate change question for anyone who wants it
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Jan 19, 2025, 9:02 AM
[ in reply to Re: Climate change question for anyone who wants it ] |
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Its not Republicans ignoring climate change who are at fault for the 200 billion disaster in California no matter how many times people like you repeat it.
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1st Rounder [692]
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Re: Climate change question for anyone who wants it
Jan 20, 2025, 12:19 PM
[ in reply to Re: Climate change question for anyone who wants it ] |
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Good point.
Our zone number in Montana has changed … or close. Close enough that we have planted five hazelnut trees.
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Game Changer [1934]
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Re: Climate change question for anyone who wants it
Jan 18, 2025, 10:31 PM
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Yes, the current state of the market for residential property insurance in California leads me to believe that climate change is a very serious concern.
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Legend [6854]
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Re: Climate change question for anyone who wants it
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Jan 19, 2025, 9:07 AM
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If insurance companies have properties in areas with a high propensity for wildfires and then see local government actively engaging in practices that will make attempts to control those wild fires impossible they are going to leave before they get caught holding the bag. If the state of SC decided to unilaterally get rid of every fire department and had no plan to deal with the fall out then the insurance companies would vacate SC as well and that would have zero to do with climate change.
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Head Coach [903]
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Re: Climate change question for anyone who wants it
Jan 20, 2025, 7:54 AM
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It’s funny to read all the denials from ignorant #####. Where was all this skepticism about the ozone hole? That’s right, the Kochs hadn’t brainwashed all you lemmings yet.
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Ring of Honor [23309]
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Re: Climate change question for anyone who wants it
Jan 20, 2025, 7:59 AM
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The greenhouse effect is such basic science that we already knew about it back in the 1800s. Oil companies have spent billions trying to convince people that it isn't real, though.
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Head Coach [903]
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Re: Climate change question for anyone who wants it
Jan 20, 2025, 7:42 PM
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I would have guessed early 20th because I didn't realize when they figured out radiating gases. I like this writeup on Tyndall.
The problem is people who didn't learn anything in science classes end up calling themselves "skeptics" when they have absolutely no background to understand in the first place.
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/Tyndall#:~:text=Tyndall's%20original%20research%20on%20the,radiative%20properties%20of%20various%20gases.
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