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Replies: 31
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 99%
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D-Coordinator
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Jan 6, 2025, 10:32 AM
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I'm not in the "sky is falling" crowd so here's my 2 cents:
The Defense was overall top 10 the previous 2 years with this year being down statistically. While we can all point fingers at the problems we might see I think the 2 biggest issues were: 1) lack of quality depth, particularly in the front 7 and 2) leadership at Coordinator spot was lacking which was translated into losing an "edge" in physical play & the play-calling/scheme choices went hand in hand with that.
many want a big "splash" at DC but I wouldn't rule out a promotion from within.
The staff seems solid and there's a lot to be said for continuity. Those coaches who are already there have been in the basic system for quite some time and have been extremely successful. They also can see where the deficiencies are/have been and would be able to fix them without re-inventing the wheel.
There are guys on that staff who are qualified and would do great
The roster issues that may have developed because of transfers/NIL related issues won't be solved by a DC (regardless of who it is) and I would argue the struggles on D this year have as much to do with that as anything. There's been some positive changes regarding all of that, so I say hire from within...
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Paw Master [16445]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Who on staff was "more qualified" than Wes, and why weren't they first choice?***
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Jan 6, 2025, 10:36 AM
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Who on staff was "more qualified" than Wes, and why weren't they first choice?***
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Jan 6, 2025, 10:39 AM
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I think Dabo overlooked the inexperience aspect of Goodwin, thinking his intellect and genius level understanding of the D would overcome what we now see as shortcomings
He took a gamble and it didn't work...so the other coaches weren't viewed as unqualified. Dabo bought "stock" in a startup which didn't pan out
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Athletic Dir [1165]
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Re: Who on staff was "more qualified" than Wes, and why weren't they first choice?***
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Jan 6, 2025, 10:58 AM
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Conn is in no way qualified to be DC , good grief
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Athletic Dir [1136]
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Re: Who on staff was "more qualified" than Wes, and why weren't they first choice?***
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Jan 6, 2025, 11:26 AM
[ in reply to Re: Who on staff was "more qualified" than Wes, and why weren't they first choice?*** ] |
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Not a chance Mickey Conn is qualified to be our DC. You cannot be serious. If anyone on our current staff is qualified, it is Reed. I don't even know if Conn is qualified to be on the staff. He is on there because of the friends and family plan.
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Team Captain [487]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Not sure Conn is qualified to be the safety coach TBH...
Jan 6, 2025, 1:10 PM
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His strength was in relationship building and recruiting and the value of that is far less than it used to be in the transfer portal/NIL era. Just my opinion but he should be next to be shown the door.
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Varsity [148]
TigerPulse: 42%
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1st Rounder [623]
TigerPulse: 71%
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Re: Who on staff was "more qualified" than Wes, and why weren't they first choice?***
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Jan 6, 2025, 11:06 AM
[ in reply to Who on staff was "more qualified" than Wes, and why weren't they first choice?*** ] |
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I have been really trying to look at what made Wes so qualified. It was stated that if he wasn't hired he'd leave with Venables and Clemson defense would be in trouble. All I seemed to read was he worked with somebody, another somebody said he was so smart and that he possessed some magical skill of knowing defenses despite having never played. This skill was so good he didn't want or need to be in the coaching booth to see the field. He was able to see everything from on the field. All of this despite never having played the game. No record of identifying, recruiting or developing players but for some reason Dabo felt he had to keep him. All of this despite having 2 coaches on staff (Eason and Reed) who played D1 football, played/coached in the NFL , both have a proven record of recruiting and developing players that have or is currently playing in the NFL and both were wanted by other college or NFL teams. We saw how the experiment of choosing the unqualified canidate went. Not saying choosing Reed or Eason would have had a different outcome, but I don't think you can deny their professional accomplishments of coaching football and that they didn’t warrant them an opportunity to be DC instead of Wes. Nothing against Wes but he was in way over his head but I really don't think the question of who on the staff was more qualified than Wes makes much sense.
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Who on staff was "more qualified" than Wes, and why weren't they first choice?***
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Jan 6, 2025, 11:29 AM
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Dabo based it on potential.
Those who think Wes is stupid are themselves stupid. You outlined the problems well, though.
it seems as though Dabo thought the other coaches could make up for the deficiencies Wes has/had. He was afraid of letting the next big thing on Defense go and it didn't work.
Conn played D1 as well BTW and was a grad assistant under Bill Oliver who was defensive genius himself. For all the criticism Conn gets, his "blind" resume would get folks excited but most just think he's there because of his connection with Dabo.
FWIW it seems as though Venables would have taken several (Goodwin, Conn, and Reed) om the staff at Clemson with him to OK but those guys wanted to stay at Clemson. When the best DC in school history thinks highly of those guys there must be a reason beyond "friends and family"
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Orange Blooded [2354]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Who on staff was "more qualified" than Wes, and why weren't they first choice?***
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Jan 6, 2025, 12:19 PM
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Playing D1 and being a GA under a DC does NOT make you a worthy candidate to be a DC. GTHOOH. You are talking out of both sides of your A.
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1st Rounder [623]
TigerPulse: 71%
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Re: Who on staff was "more qualified" than Wes, and why weren't they first choice?***
Jan 17, 2025, 12:17 AM
[ in reply to Re: Who on staff was "more qualified" than Wes, and why weren't they first choice?*** ] |
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I believe some of what you say. Yes Dabo did make his decision " based " on something but it wasn't qualifications and " potential " is a good attempt to cover up what we all know just don't want to say. I'm really not sure why there is such hesitation in stating what was said by a good amount of coaches at the coaches conference that just finished in Charlotte earlier this week and I'm sure which will be discussed at the minority coaches conference next month in Vegas where Clemson's own Mike Reed is scheduled to be one of the speakers.
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Clemson Sports Icon [56952]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Who on staff was "more qualified" than Wes, and why weren't they first choice?***
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Jan 6, 2025, 11:30 AM
[ in reply to Re: Who on staff was "more qualified" than Wes, and why weren't they first choice?*** ] |
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I tend to agree with you. I can also understand wanting an experienced hire. Here's the rub. We're not the only ones dealing with "trench " issues. Joel Klatt- I know ppl hate pundits but he made a good point. The days of building and stockpiling depth are over. Unless you have deep pockets and recruit players that don't expect to play immediately, depth will be an issue. Look at Bama, uga etc etc.
I have faith that if anyone pulls it off and stays several steps ahead of us and everyone else, it's Dabo.
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Who on staff was "more qualified" than Wes, and why weren't they first choice?***
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Jan 6, 2025, 11:37 AM
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great points
if you keep making logical posts like this you may get booted - haha!
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Hall of Famer [8400]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Internal hire would be another disaster. Go hire a freaking experienced DC!
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Jan 6, 2025, 10:49 AM
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No excuse not to. None.
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Orange Blooded [2310]
TigerPulse: 93%
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so would u rather keep Wes rather than hire feom within. I agree NIL loses
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Jan 6, 2025, 11:00 AM
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is the main problem. bur not sure about not going outside It sure made a positive change on O line. should have done that years ago
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Solid Orange [1311]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: so would u rather keep Wes rather than hire feom within. I agree NIL loses
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Jan 6, 2025, 11:22 AM
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Why hire within when the defense sucked. If Wes failed certainly his staff ain’t qualified Hire outside and get somebody that can handled the job not fail at it
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Orange Blooded [2310]
TigerPulse: 93%
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that's my thinking***
Jan 8, 2025, 6:52 PM
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All-Conference [408]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: D-Coordinator
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Jan 6, 2025, 11:04 AM
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Some coaches are great assistants, but don’t won’t to be coordinators. Others can assemble a great game plan,but are not good game day play callers. Just because coaches don’t become OC/DC doesn’t make them bad coaches.
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Varsity [109]
TigerPulse: 88%
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Re: D-Coordinator
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Jan 6, 2025, 11:22 AM
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I'm the need to make a decent SPLASH at DC mindset. Spend freaking money. Don't be like the norm at being conservative. Just my thoughts. Whatever that's worth.
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Orange Phenom [14228]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I think we can aim higher than promoting from within
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Jan 6, 2025, 11:07 AM
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This is a big boy job.
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Varsity [109]
TigerPulse: 88%
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Re: D-Coordinator
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Jan 6, 2025, 11:19 AM
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Wow, really?
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Letterman [177]
TigerPulse: 74%
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Re: D-Coordinator
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Jan 6, 2025, 11:28 AM
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And Someone needs to coach the Linebackers
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: D-Coordinator
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Jan 6, 2025, 11:31 AM
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agreed...
I think this was the biggest flaw in the Goodwin experiment. Of all the positions on the field, LB may be the most crucial to have a position coach who played the game at a high level and has visible intensity...which WG had neither
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Top TigerNet [29310]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: D-Coordinator
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Jan 6, 2025, 11:35 AM
[ in reply to Re: D-Coordinator ] |
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I would guess hire from within would would get us more of the same. We already tried that and it failed miserably. On my opinion, we need new blood with new ideas, not rehashing old ones.
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Paw Warrior [4731]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: D-Coordinator
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Jan 6, 2025, 11:44 AM
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If it were an internal hire I don't think we would be waiting to announce it, helps recruiting when you can publicly announce who the guy is going to be.
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: D-Coordinator
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Jan 6, 2025, 11:48 AM
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you're probably right
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [100775]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Dabo has done well by hiring via promotion since his first year when...
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Jan 6, 2025, 12:05 PM
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The BOT wouldn't open that checkbook. Some wondered if the Scott Elliot package would work and the most loud screams on Tigernet.com were those when Dabo was given the HCing job.
Dabo has done a respectable job and no one was calling for Tony and Jeff's dismissal.
'Dabo has done a respectable job,' is a joke to make a point. Hiring from within landed us the best active coach in the business and we have years of success coming.
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Valley Protector [1442]
TigerPulse: 83%
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Re: D-Coordinator
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Jan 6, 2025, 1:03 PM
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Imagine lying about something that can be so easily disproven:
2024: #49 Scoring Defense, #69 Total Defense, #54 Passing Defense, #84 Rushing Defense, #104 Yards Allowed Per Rush
2023: #32 Scoring Defense, #11 Total Defense, #8 Passing Defense, #24 Rushing Defense, #40 Yards Allowed Per Rush
2022: #22 Scoring Defense, #28 Total Defense, #76 Passing Defense, #13 Rushing Defense, #11 Yards Allowed Per Rush
2021: #2 Scoring Defense, #8 Total Defense, #34 Passing Defense, #7 Rushing Defense, #7 Yards Allowed Per Rush
Why lie?
This year was atrocious, but it wasn't a "blip." We haven't had a top 10 defense since Venables left, and every year has been worse than the year before. Most importantly, our defense has gotten significantly worse when it matters. We've dropped every year in scoring defense, and our red zone defense has fallen from #2 in the country to #82. So your entire premise is false.
There are a lot bigger problems than you seem to think. The basic system Clemson uses on defense is bad, so who cares if they have experience in it? Second, if the Clemson coaching staff could see the deficiencies in the defense, then you'd think they would have fixed it over the past couple seasons, rather than letting those deficiencies become more and more pronounced. I mean, this year, Clemson was gashed in the running game all year, and yet did nothing to fix it. We allowed the three most rushing yards for every single team we faced.
I think there are a couple defensive positional coaches who are good at the position they're in. But NO ONE is qualified to be a defensive coordinator for an elite P5 team on staff. Who do you suggest is, and what are their qualifications that make you think so? Clemson's in this position because of hiring from within.
Finally, this argument about transfers/NIL is stupid, and I'm someone who's been against Dabo's portal philosophy for a while. Clemson lost one starter to the portal. We returned 7 starters, and replaced one of ours with Sammy Brown, who was improved. We definitely were weaker in a couple positions (looking at Lawson and Griffin) and didn't have as much depth, but we were in a significantly better position with returning players than most teams.
I know you didn't expect anyone to fact check you, but just terrible post all around.
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: D-Coordinator
Jan 7, 2025, 10:33 AM
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wow dude really? lying is a serious thing to accuse...no lies given anywhere that I posted
I would simply say, however, most the current coaches were a huge part of those successes you posted from Venables time as DC. He was an incredible coordinator, but those guys who are there currently seemed to do pretty well under a different set of circumstances (no NIL/transfer portal/ and a significantly better D-Line to name a few)
yes, The Goodwin "experiment" didn't work & Dabo will likely go with an outside hire who will make a splash
Also, for the record...scoring defense is a great metric, but it definitely doesn't tell the whole story. For example, last year the offense was a direct result of quite a few points with costly turnovers and poor performance. Last year's defense was top ten in defensive efficiency, however. Stats can be manipulated to fit a narrative. I'm not arguing for Wes to have kept his job, just that my take isn't as far out of bounds as you think it is
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Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: D-Coordinator PS RE ***Lying***
Jan 7, 2025, 12:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: D-Coordinator ] |
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Here's some stats for better context (because my dude cherry picked the stats to make his point)
scoring defense and total defense aren't great indicators of the job a defense does because a lot has to do with the context of a game (what the offense and special teams does)
A better metric (per ESPN advanced analytics gurus) is defensive efficiency
under Venables the defense was great at this stat as you would expect. They averaged being ranked top 5
under Goodwin they were 9th, 2nd and 26th
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Orange Immortal [60981]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: D-Coordinator
Jan 6, 2025, 2:11 PM
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I just know that really good coaches can coach up just about any talent level player. IMO any HC will do himself a huge favor if they can go out and hire the best coach that money can hire 10 fold. IMO that is what Saban did his best at doing year after year, and he had one of the biggest coaching turn overs as anybody in college FB, and he won more college national championships than any college level HC ever...
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