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110%er [9109]
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National Debt Increase by President
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Mar 8, 2024, 12:11 PM
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It's not so much about spending. It's about spending what we don't have - debt!
I sorted the table in the article below and here is how much each president contributed to the national debt:
1 - Obama $7.66 trillion
2 - Trump $6.70 trillion
3 - W Bush $4.22 trillion
4 - Biden $2.50 trillion
5 - Reagan $1.61 trillion
I don't care who you vote for or what you think about government spending. What we're doing is unsustainable.
What's Trump's plan? Does he have one? Has he even mentioned the debt?
Same with Biden. Anything? Anything? Buehler? Buehler?
https://www.investopedia.com/us-debt-by-president-dollar-and-percentage-7371225
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All-In [31518]
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Re: National Debt Increase by President
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Mar 8, 2024, 1:07 PM
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MAGA populists don’t care about spending or about debt, they just want the money spent on them rather than other countries or immigrants
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All-In [27150]
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WE CAN'T AFFORD TO HELP UKRAINE.
Mar 8, 2024, 1:44 PM
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TRUMP BANKRUPTED US!
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Scout Team [152]
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Re: WE CAN'T AFFORD TO HELP UKRAINE.
Mar 11, 2024, 12:00 AM
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Want to back that statement up with facts instead of capital letters? Want to explain why Trump's first 3 years were less per year deficit than Obama/Biden and the current Biden's administration? Want to defend that Biden would have vetoed bi-partisan bills to fund Covid relief during Trump's last year in office? Of course you don't.
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110%er [5694]
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that's complete bullchit
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Mar 8, 2024, 4:52 PM
[ in reply to Re: National Debt Increase by President ] |
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The ONLY ones that talk smaller gubment are the pubs.
But the ONLY thing the democrats want to do is buy votes. Any republican will tell you government should be smaller. No democrat will tell you the same.
Figure it out.
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All-In [31518]
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Re: that's complete bullchit
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Mar 8, 2024, 5:22 PM
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Well, that used to be true when the adults were in charge of the Republican Party. MAGA on the other hand has no interest in cutting spending or reducing the size and scope of the federal government.
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110%er [7155]
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Re: that's complete bullchit
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Mar 10, 2024, 9:44 PM
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You’re just making that up. Nothing but air.
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All-In [42197]
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So, in summary
Mar 11, 2024, 7:46 AM
[ in reply to that's complete bullchit ] |
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The Dems don't believe in small government and say so. Republicans don't believe in small government and lie about it.
Because what we've seen out of the Pubs for decades is a push to big government, and Trump was a major part of that.
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Hall of Famer [24108]
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Re: National Debt Increase by President
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Mar 10, 2024, 5:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: National Debt Increase by President ] |
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Well, we wouldn't want those funds to go towards American citizens. That would be terrible.
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All-In [31518]
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Re: National Debt Increase by President
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Mar 10, 2024, 7:40 PM
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I’d like those funds to stay with me. Left, Right, center, doesn’t matter, everyone is looking for a handout. Stimulus checks, “direct payment” child tax credit, no-repayment business loans. The fact that we didn’t have a recession with all of that inflation is absurd and alarming, we are all addicted to spending money endlessly and leveraging credit to do so, from the federal government down to individuals.
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All-In [31907]
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Trump gets extra credit for doing that in 4 yrs!***
8
8
Mar 8, 2024, 1:10 PM
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110%er [9109]
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Always the over-achiever
Mar 8, 2024, 1:37 PM
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Whether in good things or bad. He's gotta win!
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All-TigerNet [11961]
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All-In [42197]
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So why do you support Trump, who did the same?***
Mar 11, 2024, 7:47 AM
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All-TigerNet [11961]
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Because
Mar 11, 2024, 2:11 PM
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Even if he is just as bad as Biden on spending, he is lots better in most other areas.
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All-TigerNet [12252]
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Need to add a lot more to the W. Bush pile because he committed us to
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Mar 8, 2024, 4:31 PM
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some foreign entanglements to such a degree that all those who followed him in office were saddled with trying to make chicken salad out of his chicken shid middle-east democratization commitment. Colin Powell told G.W. that the middle-east was like pottery barn - "you break it - you buy it". Georgie said "yeehaw y'all" and commenced to break a 20 year, $8 trillion piece of middle-east pottery.
Most of that 20 years of middle-east democratization at the point of a gun spending was set on a semi-permanent glide path by George W. and his posse of Republican Inc. chicken-hawks. So even though George was only in office for only the first 8 years of that 20 year fiasco, he can certainly lay claim to setting the stage for the 12 additional years after he left office. IMO George W. rightly deserves credit for 80% of that $8 Trillion we threw into a middle-east sinkhole which is enough to make him the king of debt...
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110%er [7155]
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All-In [42197]
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You and Tabby would have had a hard time on this board 20 years ago
Mar 11, 2024, 7:52 AM
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If you didn't blindly support Bush and the war, you were labeled un-American and a liberal. RPMcMurphy and Capt. Crash would have called you those things as they were some of the biggest offenders back then. Some folks would have tried to dox you; others would have suggested you needed to be charged with sedition crimes and jailed. Or worse.
Well, unless you're like them and now pretend you didn't believe/do all those things back then.
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110%er [9667]
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Them numbers ain't right - Fiscal years and Presidential tenure start dates
Mar 8, 2024, 4:48 PM
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don't line up - but I have this from the same site you used.
Obama's 2nd term: 3.5 trillion
Trump's term: 7.4 trillion
Biden's term: 6.2 trillion (so far)
Trump and Biden both deserve a bit of a "pass" for the ending of Trump's term and the beginning of Biden's term due to having to hand out bucks to folks during the pandemic. (I did think Biden gave one hand-out too many...)
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All-In [42197]
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Re: Them numbers ain't right - Fiscal years and Presidential tenure start dates
Mar 11, 2024, 7:53 AM
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Trump and Biden both deserve a bit of a "pass" for the ending of Trump's term and the beginning of Biden's term due to having to hand out bucks to folks during the pandemic. (I did think Biden gave one hand-out too many...)
They both gave out one hand-out too many. Trump's bad spending policies, however, wasn't just COVID. He had already added a significant chunk before that.
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110%er [9667]
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Yeah - that site doesn't show where the $$ went. But Trump's bucks were in
Mar 11, 2024, 11:33 AM
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line with Obama (for example) until the year COVID hit.
Increase to debt in trillions:
0.7 2013 (Obama)
1.1 2014
0.3 2015
1.4 2016
0.7 2017 (Trump)
1.3 2018
1.2 2019
4.2 2020
1.5 2021 (Biden)
2.5 2022
2.2 2023
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Scout Team [152]
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Re: National Debt Increase by President
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Mar 9, 2024, 9:46 PM
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Posted this information before, but it seems to be lost on some.
Federal Deficit
Trump did increase the deficit in a 4-year term by more than any other President to date. But why? His first 3 years the deficit increased at an amount less than the first 3 years of Obama/Biden and also less than the first 3 years of Biden's current term. The only outlier is year 4 where he approved overwhelmingly unanimous recommendations from Congress to provide economic aid and relief for the world-wide Covid pandemic. I challenge you to assert that he was wrong in approving those funds for Covid.
Since some think this media outlet is unbiased - let's see what they have to say.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/17/politics/biden-economy-facts-first/index.html
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CU Guru [1071]
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Re: National Debt Increase by President
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Mar 9, 2024, 9:49 PM
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Posted this information before, but it seems to be lost on some. Federal Deficit Trump did increase the deficit in a 4-year term by more than any other President to date. But why? His first 3 years the deficit increased at an amount less than the first 3 years of Obama/Biden and also less than the first 3 years of Biden's current term. The only outlier is year 4 where he approved overwhelmingly unanimous recommendations from Congress to provide economic aid and relief for the world-wide Covid pandemic. I challenge you to assert that he was wrong in approving those funds for Covid. Since some think this media outlet is unbiased - let's see what they have to say. https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/17/politics/biden-economy-facts-first/index.html
Do not confuse them with facts
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Lot o points [155948]
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110%er [7155]
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Re: Ill play.
Mar 10, 2024, 9:55 PM
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Trump was wrong in that oversight of how those COVID relief funds were spent was, for practical purposes, nonexistent.
The intentions were legitimately good; the execution was horrendous.
What is that old saying … ‘The road to (where was it?) is paved with good intentions.’
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Scout Team [152]
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Re: Ill play.
Mar 11, 2024, 12:07 AM
[ in reply to Ill play. ] |
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So, in the same situation - Biden would veto? And you would support that decision? I find that hard to believe.
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Lot o points [155948]
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What strange logic.
2
Mar 11, 2024, 1:04 AM
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No, Biden wouldn’t veto at all. Trump should have.
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Orange Blooded [4020]
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Re: National Debt Increase by President
Mar 10, 2024, 1:23 AM
[ in reply to Re: National Debt Increase by President ] |
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What was the deficit the day Trump took office?
What was the deficit 1 year after he took office?
How about after 2nd year?
3rd year?
It increased EVERY SINGLE year "The Businessman" was in office even BEFORE Covid. LOL
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Scout Team [152]
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Lot o points [155948]
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So are the Biden numbers a lie or not?
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Mar 9, 2024, 10:09 PM
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Because they seem clearly low to anyone paying attention. All this for a crummy lie?
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Orange Blooded [2080]
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Our Government's Debt is an overblown issue....
Mar 10, 2024, 1:49 PM
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It's not a nothing issue. But we're not anywhere near a debt panic or emergency. It's preferable to keep the debt/gdp down. But having it increase doesn't destroy the economy. In fact, there are many times where you need to borrow. We needed to borrow during the pandemic. We needed to borrow during & after the great recession. Government borrowing helps to reduce the pain that comes with economic shocks. IF we tried to balance the budget during 2008/2009, it would have put even more millions out of a job.
Also, if you're going to follow a debt number, it should be debt/gdp:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYGFGDQ188S
You can see that our debt/gdp is around 97%. Japan's is over 200%, and their economy, while not perfect, is not a hellscape. They have a good society even with high borrowing.
In terms of my lifetime, the only time where we had a sustained reduction in debt/gdp were the Clinton years. Other than that, it's tended to either drift up or to have shocks that required more borrowing.
Republicans & Democrats alike make statements about the debt that go against how they actually govern. This is one issue where both parties are hypocrites, although the GOP has tried to sell itself more than the Dems as being deficit hawks, when they're in fact potentially even worse.
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110%er [7155]
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Re: Our Government's Debt is an overblown issue....
Mar 10, 2024, 10:06 PM
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Comparing America’s debt to Japanese debt, and then drawing the conclusion that America has nothing to worry about, is like comparing S.Carolina football to Vanderbilt, and concluding that ‘this is our year’
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Scout Team [152]
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Re: Our Government's Debt is an overblown issue....
Mar 10, 2024, 11:44 PM
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they're cycling in...
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Heisman Winner [111647]
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This appears to be some sort of Tax policy experiment gone awry
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Mar 10, 2024, 8:55 PM
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when did this start?
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All-TigerNet [13153]
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Yea, taxes are the problem.***
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Mar 10, 2024, 9:19 PM
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110%er [7155]
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Re: National Debt Increase by President
Mar 10, 2024, 9:43 PM
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Trump had pushed for a long term deficit reduction plan that was based on a huge (not COVID relief) increase in long term debt.
This plan would have only worked if Trump had served his second term starting 2021 and then followed by a president who had the desire & willpower to keep that huge influx of cheap money from being spent by Congress. In other words, some president other than Biden, Newsome, Whitmer, or Big Mike’s designated replacement after she resigns shortly after her inauguration in Jan. 2025.
Trump had wanted the Federal Reserve to sell mountains of T-bonds back when the global interest rates were unbelievably cheap. Doing so would have caused short term + intermediate term debt to skyrocket. But … that debt would have been acquired with very low interest rates.
However, the Federal Reserve would have then had plenty of money with which to redeem the maturing old T-bonds which had very low interest payments with new money that was raised via the new (also low interest rate) T-bonds.
Then, for new spending needs, the Federal Reserve (and subsequently, the Treasury) would have been flush with low interest rate money that was accumulated from within that same pile of recently issued very low interest rate T-bonds.
Had this been done … and had a r3sponsible administration been in place to keep Congress from blowing it all … then the USA would not be facing this ticking bomb of having to pay off maturing low interest rate T-bonds with new money that had to be raised by selling high interest rate T-bonds.
Furthermore, with that hoard of money which we (would have) raised via sale of those low interest rate T-bonds; that cheap money would have also been available to purchase foreign govt bonds at such time as those foreign bonds were paying attractive (I.e., high) interest rates.
(*). Trump’s financing (in effect, it was more like taking a huge home equity loan when rates were cheap) would have set up the USA for years of having cheap money with which to strengthen the economy, stimulate business via an ability to affordable keep the Fed rate low, and to contribute towards a budget surplus.
TDS’ers, listen up. You may hate Trump for whatever reasons that suit your fancy, but Trump understands money.
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Head Coach [788]
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Re: National Debt Increase by President
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Mar 10, 2024, 9:59 PM
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Trump is not a conservative, he’s not a Republican, he’s a fraudulent real estate developer turned reality TV star turned con artist.
I want less government and Republicans typically promise less government, much more so than the Democrats, but the GOP never delivers.
Not looking at debt in deficit, but looking at size of government and streamlining government, Clinton / Gore clearly did the best job at streamlining and reducing government programs. They were better than all other presidents when it comes to running a tight ship, cleaning up waste and reducing the size of government.
But don’t pay attention to anything I just said, 99% of Americans will just listen to whatever the two parties tell them.
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