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Clemson Introduces Bridge Program
Jan 27, 2006, 1:29 PM
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CLEMSON INTRODUCES BRIDGE PROGRAM TO LEGISLATORS
CLEMSON - Students just missing admission to Clemson University may have a new option in their quest for a Clemson education. Clemson officials recognize that the number of applications has steadily risen, but that the university is maintaining the freshmen enrollment at 2800. This means the number of students not admitted into the freshmen class will increase.
Clemson University President Jim Barker introduced the new Bridge to Clemson University program today during the Joint City-University Committee's legislative breakfast at the Madren Conference Center. The Bridge program is a collaborative initiative with Tri-County Technical College that provides students a blend of academic and residential life during the freshman year and a seamless transition to Clemson University for the sophomore year.
"The key is accessibility," said Debra Jackson, assistant to the president and associate provost at Clemson. "We are a state institution with a commitment to serving the students in the state. The Bridge program opens a Clemson education up to more individuals who might not otherwise be accepted. The key word is 'seamless.' We want to prepare students for the transfer to Clemson."
Clemson accepts about 1,000 transfer students each year.
The Bridge program is by invitation only to students selected through Clemson's admissions office. The student participants will attend Tri-County Technical College as freshmen, then transfer to Clemson as sophomores if they have met the admissions requirement of a 2.5 grade point average on 30 semester hours. A residential life program has been planned for the students in a location close to Tri-County Tech and Clemson. Jackson said academic programs and resources are available through both institutions to ensure the students' success during their freshmen year. Students also will have access to Clemson during their freshman year. The faculty, advisers and staff at both institutions are working together to provide a positive freshman-year experience.
"The Bridge students must prove they can be successful. Acceptance to Clemson is not automatic," Jackson said. "These students must truly compete by doing well their freshman year or they will not be Clemson sophomores."
Letters of invitation will be sent to 1,500 potential students in February. Clemson hopes to enroll a maximum of 200 in the program this fall.
"We are excited about the collaboration with Tri-County. Faculty teams are working together to ensure that courses available at Tri-County provide similar experiences to our courses at Clemson, so that students can transition from one institution to another and make progress toward their degree," Jackson said. "Clemson has a unique undergraduate general education core, and Tri-County has been willing to work with us in providing key courses for the Bridge students."
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Clemson Conqueror [11268]
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Interesting.
Jan 27, 2006, 1:36 PM
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There is now hope for students who aren't accepted to Clemson to not to be doomed as a freshman at USuC.
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110%er [5630]
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It'll be interesting to see what happens to the miniscule
Jan 27, 2006, 1:42 PM
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SAT and GPA lead Clemson has over USC... if they count those numbers against Clemson's student body.
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Orange Blooded [2312]
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They won't be counted against Clemson's student body
Jan 27, 2006, 1:45 PM
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Tookie.
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TigerNet Elite [69736]
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110%er [5630]
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Fewer students... slight lead in these categories.
Jan 27, 2006, 1:47 PM
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That kind of goes hand in hand. USC doesn't have the luxury of turning people down like Clemson does.
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null [374]
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USC doesn't have the luxury of turning people down?***
Jan 27, 2006, 1:56 PM
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110%er [5630]
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Sure they do... but not the same way Clemson does.
Jan 27, 2006, 1:58 PM
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USC has a larger responsibility to the people of South Carolina than Clemson does.
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null [374]
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You've got to be kidding me.
Jan 27, 2006, 1:58 PM
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How is one school's "responsibility to the state" any greater than the other school?
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110%er [5630]
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USC is the school that has branches located througout the
Jan 27, 2006, 2:01 PM
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state. It's the school that people generally look to for higher education, when those students are not able to leave home to live in or around Clemson.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Re: USC is the school that has branches located througout the
Jan 27, 2006, 2:02 PM
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It's also the school that has every yokel who ever sat in a class for a week on the Union or Sumter campus claiming to be a USC alum. Sort of cheapens the degree from Columbia, no??
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110%er [5630]
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It didn't cheapen mine. Is USC the only school in
Jan 27, 2006, 2:06 PM
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the country with a branch system? Or are you suggesting that USC is the only one that has had it's degree cheapened by it's branch system?
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Re: It didn't cheapen mine. Is USC the only school in
Jan 27, 2006, 2:09 PM
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Ask a grad of UNC Pembroke if they are a Tar Heel grad.
Seriously.
Yes, the USC system is one of the only examples of vicarious degrees.
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110%er [9107]
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<sigh>....let it go, you're not going to win....
Jan 27, 2006, 2:05 PM
[ in reply to USC is the school that has branches located througout the ] |
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The fact of the matter is that we DO have, on average, students that have peformed better academically overall in their primary education than south carolina does. Whether you want to admit or not, whether you want to believe it or not, it is still true.
And you can make up all the excuses for it you wish, but it will not change the fact that it is still true.
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110%er [5630]
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USC has a larger burden than Clemson.
Jan 27, 2006, 2:08 PM
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It's a legitimate reason for the differences in philosophy and the minor differences in academic admission statistics. I'm sorry you can't see that. You would rather trash the school and the students as boneheads rather than see what USC does for the state in a positive light.
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110%er [9107]
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I trashed no one...I pointed out the truth***
Jan 27, 2006, 2:09 PM
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Orange Blooded [2312]
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Paw Master [16363]
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Minor differences in admissions statistics?
Jan 27, 2006, 2:25 PM
[ in reply to USC has a larger burden than Clemson. ] |
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Toogie, when I look at the how many Palmetto Scholars choose Clemson and how many choose SC, the differnce in the two schools looks larger than the 'minor differences in admissions stats' that you want to talk about. From where I sit in Charlotte, SC looks like a safe school that is pretty much a sure admission for kids who can't get into NCSU or UNC and who don't want to got to a branch campus in NC.
Of course you can go to SC and get an excellent education, get from there into medical or law school and have a great life. There is no shame in that. Still, you're playing a weak hand here.
Harley
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CU Guru [1118]
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Re: Minor differences in admissions statistics?
Jan 27, 2006, 2:34 PM
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Do you have a link to the number of Palmetto Fellows that chose Clemson and the number that chose USC? I haven't seen that data before.
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Paw Master [16363]
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1403 vs 1051 for fall of 2005
Jan 27, 2006, 2:49 PM
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In the fall of 2005, Clemson had 1403 Palmetto Scholars while SC Columbia had 1051. That strikes me as HUGE difference. Essentially every instate admissions to Clemson gets a life scholarship. It's harder for the kids who get either Palmetto or Life scholarships to keep them once they get to Clemson so these numbers are skewed a bit in favor of SC, but that's another story.
Here's one link: http://www.che.sc.gov/Finance/CHEMIS/Fall2005/Scholarship/Fall_2005_Scholarship_Data.xls
I'm sure there are others.
Harley
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CU Guru [1118]
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Thanks...
Jan 27, 2006, 3:10 PM
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I wouldn't call less than 400 students that chose Clemson over USC an "overwhelming majority" as Biggie did. Also, those numbers don't even show what those students intend to major in, etc. Course of study can have a major impact on a bright student's choice of school. For example, typically engineering students are bright students. Who has the better engineering school? Clemson. Where would a Palmetto Fellow that wanted to study engineering most likely go? Clemson. Sure, it works the other way too. I'm just not convinced those numbers reflect a great difference in the overall universities.
And I like how you just assert that it's harder to keep a scholarship at Clemson. Having talked with friends of mine at Clemson that are taking various courses within the business program, I don't believe that their courses of study have been any more difficult or carried any harder of a workload than have mine.
But what your numbers did go to show is that USC has more state scholarship students enrolled.
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Paw Master [16363]
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I'm not going to do ALL the research.
Jan 27, 2006, 3:21 PM
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I've looked this up before. How about you look it up and link it.
Here's what I recall.... The average GPA at Clemson is LOWER than the average GPA at SC. Even though we admit kids who score better on standardized tests and who got better grades in high school, once they get into Clemson, they get worse grades than the kids who get into SC. A higher percentage of Life Scholarship kids at Clemson LOSE their scholarships because it's easier to get the 3.0 at SC than it is at Clemson. That's why I say it's easier to keep the schollies at SC than at Clemson.
The spread sheet I linked shows the total number of Palmetto and Life Scholars at both schools. The number admitted any one year indicate MORE of the really bright SC kids choose Clemson than choose SC. That's always been the way it's been.
Harley
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CU Guru [1118]
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Re: I'm not going to do ALL the research.
Jan 27, 2006, 3:34 PM
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From what I've seen, the two school's average GPA is basically identical.
From my experience, grades in college are generally more a reflection of effort (class attendance, study time, exam preparation, etc) than it is a reflection of intelligence. Standardized test scores and grades do not always necessarily go hand-in-hand. For example (I'm taking a shot at myself here), I have a worse GPA than some of those sub-1000 SAT students that are at Clemson. My SAT got me into the Honors College at USC. I'm not saying I'm either more or less intelligent than those students because of SATs or GPAs, but showing that the two don't always correlate.
So, IMO, with the GPA's being about the same, students at each school on average give about the same amount of effort. That really doesn't surprise me.
Also, I wonder if Clemson's recent listing as one of the top party schools has any influence on GPA and effort? I would think so.
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Orange Blooded [2372]
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Re: The GPA's might've equalized recently....
Jan 27, 2006, 3:41 PM
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for a while, I believe USC's plus-minus grading system (which was more plus than minus) inflated their GPRs. This might've been equalized over the last few years as Clemson introduced the "forgivable F" policy, in which an "F" shows on your transcript but is not factored into your GPR after you retake the class. Also, our state's horribly flawed, vote-buying method of funding universities through students via Life Scholarships might've been "adapted" to by incoming students who quickly transfer out of difficult programs to maintain the scholarships. I don't know that this is an issue at USC like it is at Clemson, but the state has provided a disincentive for studying difficult, technical material that could help the state down the road. It is in the state's best interests to do away with this policy by getting an agreement from USC and Clemson to reduce tuition in exchange for steady, targeted funding directly from the state.
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Orange Blooded [2372]
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Re: Also, I expect that professors at most schools
Jan 27, 2006, 3:41 PM
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that labor under the burden of the Life Scholarship have been forced to grade according to a low-B centered bell curve by now.
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CU Guru [1118]
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Orange Blooded [2372]
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Re: I wish USC would upgrade their history and
Jan 27, 2006, 3:58 PM
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video departments. I was watching SC ETV last night and was highly disappointed with their treatment of Manse Jolly. Shortly afterwards was a show produced by UNC-Greensboro about Fort Fisher near Greensboro. I'm proud that Walter Edgar is on the faculty at USC - I wish USC would showcase him a littler more by getting more involved doing documentaries in conjunction with ETV.
I'm sure transferring to easy programs is a problem at USC, too. I doubt it's as big a problem, though, with fewer engineering students. Many other science and technical programs are also difficult, but it truly is a different "kind" of difficulty, a kind that is more difficult to study and prepare for on tests. Just my opinion.
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Orange Blooded [2372]
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Re:Actually, it was UNC-W, about a fort near there. My bad.***
Jan 27, 2006, 4:07 PM
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Paw Master [16363]
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Life and Palmetto scholars.............
Jan 27, 2006, 10:39 PM
[ in reply to Re: The GPA's might've equalized recently.... ] |
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...at USC retain their scholarships at a higher rate than at Clemson. So...Clemson admits smarter kids and then those kids then get lower grades than the kids at SC. Seems pretty clear to me that classes at Clemson are harder and lower grades given more often than at SC. So it would follow that GPAs at CU are lower.
Harley
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TigerNet Elite [69736]
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It's pretty much the same way in South Carolina too....
Jan 27, 2006, 2:48 PM
[ in reply to Minor differences in admissions statistics? ] |
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It's a sure admission for kids who can't get into Clemson and who don't want to attend a smaller school like Lander, Winthrop, Francis Marion, College of Charleston, or one of $CU's many branch locations.
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110%er [5630]
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So... you would call me a liar if I could tell you the name
Jan 27, 2006, 2:51 PM
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phone number and childhood address of a person i grew up with that was denied admission to USC but got a degree form Clemson?
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Paw Master [16363]
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I wouldn't call you a liar, Toogie.
Jan 27, 2006, 2:53 PM
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I'm just telling you the big score pretty much across the board. There are exceptions all over, of course, but mostly the score is the score.
Harley
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110%er [5630]
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You and I simply disagree on the level of difference
Jan 27, 2006, 2:56 PM
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in those admitted to Clemson than USC. I don't think it's nearly so large as many from Clemson want to believe simply because they are supposed to hate all things USC.
Hell it's refreshing to me to see a Clemson fan admit that one can get a good education at USC.
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TigerNet Elite [69736]
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I've acknowledged that numerous times.
Jan 27, 2006, 2:58 PM
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That doesn't change the fact that the largest percentage of the best and the brightest are selecting Clemson over South Carolina and there is a reason for it.
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Varsity [103]
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Who saying a person can't get a decent education at USC?
Jan 27, 2006, 3:00 PM
[ in reply to You and I simply disagree on the level of difference ] |
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All anyone here is saying is we have a higher ranked education, a better education for the dollar, and we have smarter students.
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Paw Master [16363]
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From Charlotte......
Jan 27, 2006, 2:51 PM
[ in reply to It's pretty much the same way in South Carolina too.... ] |
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..the big safe admits of choice right now seem to be Alabama and Tennessee with fewer kids going to SC but SC remains pretty much a sure bet for most college bound NC kids.
Harley
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110%er [5630]
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I live in Charlotte... but I admittedly am not surrounded by
Jan 27, 2006, 2:53 PM
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a lot of kids making collegiate decisions. Those I do know are going to UNCC or Chapell Hill.
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Paw Master [16363]
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I'm no encyclopedia on this......
Jan 27, 2006, 2:57 PM
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...but I am in touch with a fair number of kids who go off to school every year.
Clemson's been a much harder admissions than SC since forever. We've got a narrower scope as you like to point out and we have a different aim. SC does serve a different mission.
Harley
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Orange Blooded [2372]
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Re: Let's not make the mistake (again) of suggesting that
Jan 27, 2006, 3:06 PM
[ in reply to USC is the school that has branches located througout the ] |
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students at the branch campuses are factored into USC-Columbia's SAT/Class Rank statistics.
Let's also not make the mistake of failing to realize that USC took just as high a percentage of out-of-state students as Clemson in the most recent class, and still lags behind, by about the same amount as previous classes have been.
The difference is NOT huge - but it's definitely a difference.
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All-TigerNet [11074]
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Orange Blooded [3436]
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110%er [5630]
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While that's true when analyzing ALL campuses,
Jan 27, 2006, 1:59 PM
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but Columbia only enrolls 3000 more students. Imagine how Clemson's SAT and GPA figures would drop if you doubled your enrollment.
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Orange Blooded [3436]
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It wouldnt drop that much seeing how Clemson turns away
Jan 27, 2006, 2:02 PM
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students who have high SAT scores and GPA's already.
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110%er [5630]
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Yeah... that's what Clemson people keep telling me.
Jan 27, 2006, 2:14 PM
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But the fact is I grew up in Lancaster SC and if you didn;t go to USC, you went to Clemson, and vice versa. I know a boatload of people that have been admitted to Clemson. You might find this amazing... but they were all Einsteins. Some of them weren;t even Einstein the dog from "Back to the Future".
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TigerNet Elite [69736]
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I don't know if I'd call it a luxury
Jan 27, 2006, 1:58 PM
[ in reply to Fewer students... slight lead in these categories. ] |
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We'd like to accept more, but when you have a goal of becoming one of the nations top 20 schools, heightning your requirements for admission is a critical element in the process.
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110%er [5630]
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The state of South Carolina however finds itself in a bit
Jan 27, 2006, 2:04 PM
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of a quandry though. A chicken or the egg delimma. Should the Universities educate more, in the hopes of a trickle down affect?? Or should it disregard those who are less desirable in the hopes that high school students are inspired to work harder?
In any case we are talking about a 53 point SAT differential and a .1 GPA differential. With 3000 more students, I think USC is doing very well.
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All-TigerNet [12092]
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If you say so......number two.***
Jan 27, 2006, 2:06 PM
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null [374]
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How is that a Faustian situation?
Jan 27, 2006, 2:06 PM
[ in reply to The state of South Carolina however finds itself in a bit ] |
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Both Clemson AND USC should aspire to being top-notch universities.
The poor quality of public K-12 education in SC is a separate issue that won't be fixed by letting every Tom, ####, and Harry into Clemson OR USC.
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110%er [5630]
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Again... if USC let every Tom, #### and Harry in,
Jan 27, 2006, 2:12 PM
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the differential in scores would be greater no?
Nevertheless, USC still bears more of the burden of making higher education available to SC residents than Clemson does.
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TigerNet Elite [69736]
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That's why we have schools like Lander, Winthrop and C of C.
Jan 27, 2006, 2:07 PM
[ in reply to The state of South Carolina however finds itself in a bit ] |
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Everyone can't attend Clemson. If high schoo students want to get into Clemson they will have to work harder. If they don't, there is alway's Francis Marion.
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110%er [5630]
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Oddly enough even with all those schools, there is still a
Jan 27, 2006, 2:18 PM
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demand for more.
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TigerNet Elite [69736]
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which is why $CU has so many satellite locations.
Jan 27, 2006, 2:36 PM
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but I don't think the SAT scores of those students counts against the average of those attending school at the main campus in Columbia.
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110%er [5630]
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It's is not factored into the number that I quoted.
Jan 27, 2006, 2:46 PM
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I just find it laughable that Clemson folks place so much emphasis on the differences in academics when statistically there is so little difference.
The breaking point between a substandard university and a top notch one is somewhere between an SAT average 1151 and 1204? Or an average GPA of 3.81 and 3.9?
I don;t believe that for one second.
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TigerNet Elite [69736]
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Look at the total number of schools...
Jan 27, 2006, 3:06 PM
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that fall within that range. The numbers are more significant than you might think.
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Orange Blooded [2372]
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Re: I agree that the difference is less significant than
Jan 27, 2006, 4:06 PM
[ in reply to It's is not factored into the number that I quoted. ] |
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lots of people think. But to suggest that it's not a difference at all is ridiculous, and to suggest that it's due primarily to out of state students at Clemson is both wrong and degrading.
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110%er [5630]
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I don;t suggest the difference is due to out-of-state
Jan 27, 2006, 5:13 PM
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students. I suggest it's primarily due to USC having 3000 more students on main campus.
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Paw Master [16363]
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You should look closely at the undergraduate head counts.
Jan 30, 2006, 9:00 AM
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The most recent SC Commission on Higher Education reports, which are available on the internet say that in the most recent class, Clemson admitted 3019 new undergraduate freshmen while USC Columbia admittted 3403 undergraduate freshmen. The class profiles on SATs/ACTs and High school grades are based on the achievements of the 3019 and 3403 students.
That would suggest to me that when thinking about the undergraduate populations at both schools, seeing USC as about 1200 students bigger is the most accurate way of thinking about the size of both schools. YES, SC does have a much larger graduate school population and YES, SC does transfer in a higher number of upper classmen from the satellite schools.
Harley
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Paw Master [16363]
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Toogie, the numbers simply back up.........
Jan 30, 2006, 8:39 AM
[ in reply to It's is not factored into the number that I quoted. ] |
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..what most of us have known and seen among people we know for generations.
The hierarchy isn't formal and there are always exceptions. Still, if you learn that one guy went to Lander, Elon or Newberry out of high school and another went to UNC, Duke or GT, you can bet dollars to donuts the UNC, DUKE OR GT guy had significantly better test scores and grades. If a you learn that a guy did his post graduate work at Winthrop or Georgia Southern and another guy did his at Harvard or Virginia, you can bet the Harvard/Virginia guy had better scores and better grades and come out a winner a whole LOT of the time.
There is a hierarchy of schools. Clemson ranks above SC. It's not the end of the world and all of us know smart and dumb guys who went both places.
Harley
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Orange Blooded [4745]
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110%er [5630]
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USC in Columbia enrolls over 3000 more students,
Jan 27, 2006, 1:56 PM
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while the GPA differential is .1 and the SAT differential is 53 points.
I think it would be interesting to see what would happen to Clemson's numbers of it added 3000 more students.
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null [374]
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Probably no change at all
Jan 27, 2006, 1:57 PM
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as if we admitted 3,000 additional students, they would likely have the same distribution of GPAs and SAT scores as the current student body.
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Orange Blooded [4745]
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110%er [5630]
TigerPulse: 42%
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According to the Princeton Review you have just under
Jan 27, 2006, 2:19 PM
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14000 students.
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Junkie [550]
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Toogie, that number for both years includes grad students
Jan 27, 2006, 2:21 PM
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we have a little over 14,000 undergrads, and in the 1980s we had under 10,000 undergrads
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Junkie [550]
TigerPulse: 100%
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another note as to why we don't have more students
Jan 27, 2006, 2:23 PM
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Clemson does not receive the same state funding that USC does, partly because more legislators graduated from USC due to its law school. Another reason for our smaller size is that it takes more $$$ to train an engineer than it does a liberal arts major. Clemson is getting more and more of the latter, but we still are an engineering first school, which means that given the same amount of funding, or less in this case, we can't have as many students.
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Clemson Conqueror [11268]
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Probably will have nil effect.
Jan 27, 2006, 1:55 PM
[ in reply to It'll be interesting to see what happens to the miniscule ] |
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Clemson enrolls 1000 transfer students a year already and is still being selective in the new Bridge program. And I'm sure those students who were intially rejected to Clemson weren't just turned away due to their SAT scores. There's a combination of factors that go in to the admission's process besides SAT scores. Also, certain majors will still maintain their high standards of admissions such as nursing and architecture.
http://www.clemson.edu/attend/undrgrd/trnsfr/
Message was edited by: Woburn Tiger®
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110%er [5630]
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You are absolutely correct that kids are admitted or turned
Jan 27, 2006, 1:57 PM
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away for reasons other than SAT score, etc. I know one very successful Clemson grad that scored just over 700 on the SAT for example.
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Standout [312]
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I think you're right...
Jan 27, 2006, 2:10 PM
[ in reply to Probably will have nil effect. ] |
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I transferred this past fall from CofC, didn't get accepted due to my GPA from high school which was 2.83 and Clemson told me that a 3.0 GPA was a MUST despite my SAT (1320). I'm sure there were many more students in a similar situation I was in and if we were all admitted I doubt that would bring down the SAT and GPA averages that much. The ones that brought down SAT would bring up GPA and vice versa, which would even it out and keep the averages around the same that they are now.
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Head Coach [932]
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Not saying Carolina doesn't have very bright students,
Jan 27, 2006, 2:02 PM
[ in reply to It'll be interesting to see what happens to the miniscule ] |
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b/c I know they do - but I also know morons I went to highschool with that had trouble with Algebra II ended up with better GPA's from USC than I had from Clemson. If you went to school with some of these people for 12 years, you knew what they were capable of.
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110%er [5630]
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Agreed... being from Lancaster I grew up with
Jan 27, 2006, 2:22 PM
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boatloads of people that went to Clemson. That's how I know it isn;t just the best tand brightest that get admitted.
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Varsity [103]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Maybe not the "very" best and the "very" brightest,
Jan 27, 2006, 2:26 PM
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but overall better than USC. There's a reason we're in the top 50 public schools in America.
USC takes a back seas to Clemson both athletically and academically. Just deal with it and move on.
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110%er [5630]
TigerPulse: 42%
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Where you getting that stat?
Jan 27, 2006, 2:42 PM
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Are you talking just public schools? Didn't Kiplingers just list both of us in the top 50 Public Schools?
Last time I saw anything about all schools from Princeton, Clemson was not in the top 50.
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Varsity [103]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Yes, it's public schools.
Jan 27, 2006, 2:46 PM
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And you're not included.
You're thinking of the "best value" list, where we beat you in that as well.
A better education at a better value. It looks like you've lost this argument.
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Varsity [103]
TigerPulse: 92%
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By the way, we're 78th when looking at private and public.
Jan 27, 2006, 2:56 PM
[ in reply to Where you getting that stat? ] |
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Again, you're not on the list.
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CU Guru [1118]
TigerPulse: 31%
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Yup, there is a reason...
Jan 27, 2006, 2:47 PM
[ in reply to Maybe not the "very" best and the "very" brightest, ] |
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That is the goal of your president who has a different philosophy as far as responsibilities go than USC's president does.
Your president is keeping the freshmen enrollment at a constant amount. Your president is taking a higher percentage of out-of-state students. USC's president is having our university grow and extend the opportunity for higher education to more. USC's president is giving that opportunity to more South Carolina high school students. The result? On paper, Clemson certainly appears to have "better" students.
For the record, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with what Barker is doing. I just don't understand why y'all try to bash USC because of a different mission, which is essentially good for the state of SC.
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110%er [5630]
TigerPulse: 42%
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DING DING DING....
Jan 27, 2006, 2:49 PM
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And we still manage to do this with decent admission numbers (decent that is if Clemson's are considered great).
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Varsity [103]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Clemson's EDUCATION is ranked higher as well as being more
Jan 27, 2006, 2:53 PM
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bang for the buck. That's in addition to having smarter students.
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CU Guru [1118]
TigerPulse: 31%
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So, Goat, since you're the expert on this....
Jan 27, 2006, 3:22 PM
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Please explain what criteria those publications use. For example, the Princeton Review gets their information from the students at each university! It's not an outsider's independent viewpoint, but rather a reflection of the school's student body.
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110%er [9107]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Try this....from U.S. News and World Report....
Jan 27, 2006, 3:55 PM
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which, by the way, has Clemson at 34 and south carolina 52nd in its list of America's best public universities.
Undergraduate ranking criteria and weights
The U.S. News college rankings, published Aug. 18, 2005, are based on several key measures of quality, described below. U.S. News uses these measures to capture the various dimensions of academic quality at each college. These measures fall into seven broad categories: peer assessment; graduation and retention rate; faculty resources (for example, class size); student selectivity (for example, average admission test scores of incoming students); financial resources; alumni giving; and, only for national universities and liberal arts colleges, graduation rate performance. The indicators include both input measures, which reflect the quality of students, faculty, and other resources used in education, and outcome measures, which capture the results of the education an individual receives.
Scores for each measure are weighted as shown to arrive at a final overall score. For a more detailed explanation of the ranking indicators and methods, please read our methodology and our definitions of ranking criteria, below.
C&P this link:
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/about/weight_brief.php
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Tiger Titan [50417]
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This will clear some things up...
Jan 27, 2006, 3:51 PM
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Straight from the horse's mouth regarding SAT scores:
"Students can expect their applications to get a hard look if they score below 1130 at Clemson University, 800 at USC or 1200 at Furman University, according to the schools."
Link: http://greenvilleonline.com/news/2004/12/28/2004122855812.htm
I realize that Clemson and SC have different missions, but that doesn't make SC's education any better than its numbers reflect.
Just for grins, let's assume that Clemson had to accept 3,000 more students next year, giving the two schools a comparable number of admissions. Clemson's stats would not fall much, if at all, because there are a lot of students at Clemson around the cutoff - some get in, some don't. It is likely that many of these students would have gone to SC if they had not gotten into Clemson. What would that do to the quality of SC's pool of potential students? It would take it down, because Clemson would be eliminating many students who would normally be accepted at SC and ultimately enroll there.
Besides, attributing the large difference in the quality of students at Clemson and South Carolina to the difference in class size is ridiculous. Clemson could certainly do that when comparing itself to Furman, a very good school with barely higher stats, because Clemson has 5-6 times as many undergrads. Unfortunately, that doesn't work for SC.
SC alums need to hang their hats on the fact that SC "cares more about the state of SC," "is willing to give more students a chance at an education," etc. Let Clemson stick to educating the best and brightest and being recognized on a national scale as one of the nation's better universities.
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