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National Champion [7749]
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Late offers over transfers
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Sep 5, 2023, 11:55 AM
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2023:
Tyler Brown, WR - he's gonna be good
Misun Kelley, WR - unknown
Jarvis Green, RB - unknown
2022:
Antonio Williams, WR - great player
Cole Turner, WR - some potential
Kylon Griffin, S - in the two deep
Myles Oliver, CB - non factor
Kobe McCloud, LB - non factor
Jaheim Lawson, DE - non factor
Keith Adams Jr, RB - non factor
That's 10 roster spots. One is great, one will be good, one flashes potential. But most of them are not going to be major contributors for this program, except on special teams.
It's a new era of college football. Those are spots that could have been filled with impactful players from the transfer portal that we needed to cover up holes in our roster. Instead, we offer developmental guys late and hope they become impact players for us in 3-4 years.
We won't be an elite program again unless this changes. Not with this poor coaching staff.
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Head Coach [935]
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Re: Late offers over transfers
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Sep 5, 2023, 11:58 AM
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Fall back offers rarely pan out. Before the portal teams didn't have a choice but now they do...
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National Champion [7749]
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Re: Late offers over transfers
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Sep 5, 2023, 12:02 PM
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2022 was the most tragic year. Venables left for Oklahoma and Tony left for Virginia. We proceeded to lose a bunch of recruits late in the cycle. That was the perfect time to utilize the portal. Instead, we signed a bunch of dudes that will probably never play significant snaps for us.
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Orange Blooded [2249]
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Re: Late offers over transfers
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Sep 5, 2023, 11:58 AM
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The have rock solid protection from their spots being "portaled" away from them. Just ask Troy and Ryan. What's to worry about?
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TigerNet Icon [148745]
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Hold on now...
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Sep 5, 2023, 11:58 AM
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All we heard was how thin we were at RB. We sign a RB. Now we should not have signed the RB in favor of signing a player at another position?
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National Champion [7749]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Hold on now...
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Sep 5, 2023, 12:00 PM
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Don't just narrowly focus on one position.
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Tiger Titan [48540]
TigerPulse: 77%
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He can't help it. Anything to try to "win" an argument.***
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Sep 5, 2023, 12:03 PM
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Top TigerNet [31164]
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being that its the last season to keep stealing from clemson
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Sep 5, 2023, 1:36 PM
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are we excited yet?!?!
where will the next coaching stop be for you and coach doorknob? ithaca maybe? sante fe? turkey?
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Paw Master [17409]
TigerPulse: 92%
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I can't believe anybody would bring up basketball after
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Sep 5, 2023, 2:08 PM
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last night's debacle in Durham
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Standout [340]
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How many players can we buy with Brownells salary
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Sep 5, 2023, 2:22 PM
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and all the other money wasted on Basketball with no returns over 14 years?
C’mon man, let’s talk roster.
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TigerNet Icon [148745]
TigerPulse: 100%
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If you agree on this player...
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Sep 5, 2023, 12:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: Hold on now... ] |
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why would you undermine your argument by lumping him in?
Just like some people only remember the comment about Colgate being the best mid major program, or the Virginia basketball game having poor attendance, or PJ Hall growing up a Tiger. These are completely false statements, easily researched, which in the end only served to undermine the person's reputation on the board. At the end of the day, those posters have to go all in on being contrarian, which further alienates them. You are not that. You are an anxious poster by nature, and you like to try to get a reaction out of people by being somewhat contrarian, but you are not a liar.
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National Champion [7749]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: If you agree on this player...
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Sep 5, 2023, 1:03 PM
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I should correct myself.
Shipley
Mafah
Thomas
Adams Jr
Haynes
Green
6 RBs on scholarship? I will go ahead and argue that we should have let Jarvis Green sign with James Madison in order to sign someone that would have had a better impact. 5 is plenty. We've had great seasons with less.
Same with Misun Kelley. Instead of signing him late, we should have went into the portal. Misun isn't going to have an impact for us this year. But someone from the portal would have.
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Ring of Honor [22682]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Give up Leon.
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Sep 5, 2023, 3:05 PM
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If you're not going to convince him after last night then you never will.
I guess Dead Solid Marion didn't like the TNET article today.
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Legend [6946]
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Re: If you agree on this player...
Sep 5, 2023, 8:57 PM
[ in reply to Re: If you agree on this player... ] |
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I hate to agree with a semi-commie but you are 100% right on this one.
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Ring of Honor [22682]
TigerPulse: 100%
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This is another gaslighting attempt. Why bother?***
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Sep 5, 2023, 1:22 PM
[ in reply to Re: Hold on now... ] |
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TigerNet Icon [148745]
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That's not gaslighting...
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Sep 5, 2023, 1:42 PM
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"Gaslighting is an insidious form of manipulation and psychological control. Victims of gaslighting are deliberately and systematically fed false information that leads them to question what they know to be true, often about themselves. They may end up doubting their memory, their perception, and even their sanity. Over time, a gaslighter’s manipulations can grow more complex and potent, making it increasingly difficult for the victim to see the truth." - Psychology Today
No information I fed was false. In fact, I pointed out the false information, and did it in a polite way. Remember the gaslighter is the one feeding the false information, not the one receiving it.
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TigerNet Champion [110775]
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Careful, this is his dissertation year.***
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Sep 5, 2023, 1:44 PM
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Ring of Honor [22682]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: That's not gaslighting...
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Sep 5, 2023, 2:58 PM
[ in reply to That's not gaslighting... ] |
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Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation in which the abuser attempts to sow self-doubt and confusion in their victim's mind. Typically, gaslighters are seeking to gain power and control over the other person, by distorting reality and forcing them to question their own judgment and intuition.
Exactly what you and your gang did when cracks in this program were brought up.
DSP is right it is my dissertation year. I'll can pull up some research if you'd like.
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TigerNet Champion [110775]
TigerPulse: 100%
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"distorting reality" is the feeding of false information...
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Sep 5, 2023, 3:13 PM
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from the definition provided by Psychology Today.
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Ring of Honor [22682]
TigerPulse: 100%
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You know am I right.
Sep 5, 2023, 9:44 PM
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But yet this continues.
I do like you guys. I am sure the feeling is not mutual but let's move on, shall we?
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TigerNet Champion [110775]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: You know am I right.
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Sep 5, 2023, 10:37 PM
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But yet this continues.
I do like you guys. I am sure the feeling is not mutual but let's move on, shall we?
No, I do not see you as right, even down to not giving credit to the article from which you stole your quote.
I don't have a sense of "like" or "dislike" for a lot here, I do enjoy people with bright minds and the ability to support their assertions or to turn a phrase or make a funny. I'm not a fan of pathos, not because emotions aren't important, but because the two other tools are based on reason, fact and authority. I do take exception to anyone that tries to suggest to me that "I know something to be true of false", especially when they've never shown much of an aptitude for the game or a current topic. I have a handful of family that know me here and some closer friends that I've known for many years that have taken the time to know and or understand who and what I am.
You're a consumer, a Clemson fan and have a right to your opinion. None of us have access to 95% of the information needed to make some of the condemnations or accusations I see here; too many suggest they were lied to because it's not what their mind's eye told them leading up to the season. It's one of the reasons I read everything I could find when researching Riley after he was hired. I did get to see a lot of TCU last year even watching the Baylor game while pulling for Baylor. I also watched TCU lose the Big12 Championship game.
One of the issues I have with today's social interactions is laziness. I've seen very little gaslighting here and find it's become a lazy, catch all. I've never seen it from FM and if tasked couldn't put a finger on any true gaslighting here as it's usually born between family, close friends and loved ones. We can all "like" each other or respect other's opinions even if they don't agree with our own. What I see is most people are just too lazy to do the research in support of what they offer and when they're tasked, they get sideways or uncomfortable and suggest someone is gaslighting them or lazier yet, trolling them. It's also lazy when people suggest someone might not be unhappy or disappointed because they're not rushing out with the mob to burn the staff in effigy. These chat rooms are meant for conversation and debate, not mass agreement although a pinnacle celebration might bring on those moments. In debate people will challenge others beliefs, values or assertions, some with pathos, some logos and ethos. I balk at pathos 99.9% of time, because most are the emotionally encumbered.
Have a good night, PBT.
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TigerNet Icon [148745]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2010
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You are literally accusing me of gaslighting
Sep 5, 2023, 8:44 PM
[ in reply to Re: That's not gaslighting... ] |
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and when I provide the definition of gaslighting to show that’s not at all what I was doing, you say not now, but another time? Come on.
Message was edited by: Francis Marion®
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Ring of Honor [22682]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 1995
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Please give up. Yawn.***
Sep 5, 2023, 9:45 PM
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TigerNet Icon [148745]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Ill never give up on the truth.***
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Sep 5, 2023, 9:53 PM
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TigerNet Champion [110775]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Good, I'm holding you to it.***
Sep 5, 2023, 10:38 PM
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Paw Master [17409]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Because he can't admit he was wrong, it would erode his
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Sep 5, 2023, 2:13 PM
[ in reply to This is another gaslighting attempt. Why bother?*** ] |
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entire "Mr. Cool" persona he is so worried about...It's why he whines about Streeter getting fired but then can't bring himself to say it was a mistake to fire him...He want's his cake, and he wants to eat it too
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TigerNet Icon [148745]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Link to me whining about Streeter getting fired...
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Sep 5, 2023, 2:16 PM
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Your post is actually the definition of gaslighting. "It's why he whines about Streeter getting fired" This statement is false.
Pointing out you can't math is not me whining about him getting fired. Of course, that wasn't the first time your math has come into question.
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Paw Master [17409]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Your "People owe him an apology" thread was you whining
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Sep 5, 2023, 2:21 PM
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about Streeter...How soon you forget
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TigerNet Icon [148745]
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Paw Master [17409]
TigerPulse: 92%
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You and you traps BS again...the only people who try and set
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Sep 5, 2023, 2:27 PM
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traps are you and your circle jerk buddies...And it wasn't a joke, you were whining, it's why you can't say he needed to be fired or that Dabo made a mistake
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TigerNet Icon [148745]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I can say with 100% certainty
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Sep 5, 2023, 2:35 PM
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that was humor. I know, because I typed it. But clearly you and the other two TDers saw through it and know it was serious and I was upset about Streeter being fired and could no longer bite my tongue and had to whine.
Well done, lol.
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Paw Master [17409]
TigerPulse: 92%
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At least you can admit it now, that's the first step***
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Sep 5, 2023, 2:48 PM
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Tiger Titan [48540]
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Clemson Conqueror [11587]
TigerPulse: 86%
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I agree, but if we're honest with ourselves.......
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Sep 5, 2023, 12:01 PM
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as good as Williams appears to be.................he'd be a lost puppy on the depth chart on our 2015-2018 teams.......I'm not so sure that Powell wasn't better than Williams.
again, he's OK, but if Williams is our "BEST" WR then that just emphasizes how much of a drop in talent our WR room has experienced.
crappy part is.......it was 100% preventable had Dabo taken 1 or 2 players from the portal the last 2-3 years instead of hitching his wagon to collins, stellato, spector, TAYLOR, Turner, etc....
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National Champion [7749]
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Re: I agree, but if we're honest with ourselves.......
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Sep 5, 2023, 12:02 PM
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I'll take Antonio over Cornell. Antonio is in the same category as Amari, in my opinion.
Although, I wish he was faster.
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Clemson Conqueror [11587]
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and that's fair....to each their own, it's close.....
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Sep 5, 2023, 12:04 PM
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but he'd be lost in the shuffle on our past elite teams.
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Solid Orange [1365]
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Re: I agree, but if we're honest with ourselves.......
Sep 5, 2023, 10:19 PM
[ in reply to Re: I agree, but if we're honest with ourselves....... ] |
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You nailed the problem. Antonio isn't really a possession receiver like Mike Williams or Tee Higgins. He fills the same role as Amari, but is much slower. There's 0 chance in my mind he'd start over him. I still think Antonion is good, but I don't think he'd be a starter on any of our 2016-2019 squads.
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Tiger Titan [48540]
TigerPulse: 77%
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So it sounds like
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Sep 5, 2023, 12:02 PM
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we are trying to have an elite program based on a developmental model that starts with good but not elite talent, coached by coaches who don't seem adept at developing elite players.
And we are doing this while our competition recruits elite talent from high school and develops them better than we do, and they also supplement that with talented players from the transfer portal who can help in the short term.
And we wonder why we aren't as good lately.
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National Champion [7749]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: So it sounds like
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Sep 5, 2023, 12:04 PM
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The coaching hires make the situation even worse. Dabo knowingly hired inexperienced coaches to coach up developmental players. We have a staff with little experience at developing players and a roster with a decent amount of development players.
Truly bad decisions.
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Clemson Sports Icon [57509]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Late offers over transfers
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Sep 5, 2023, 12:25 PM
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Agree. But this has to be a philosophical decision early on. Once we miss on our top targets, you have to immediately turn towards the portal. Some say Dabo has used it, gone after ol that committed elsewhere etc. Just as in recruiting, the impact players are scooped up fast imo.
How ever other teams are doing it where a player hints at interest b4 they even hit the portal.
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National Champion [7931]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Late offers over transfers
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Sep 5, 2023, 12:28 PM
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The Hunter Renfrow mentality: Dabo and staff see these straight out of high school guys as great young men with big hearts, Clemson Men fitting into Dabo’s Culture. They’re not four or five stars but they have “potential”. They can be molded and shaped where the bad TP guys cannot be. Get them onto the team, develop them and they will be great because by gosh, they have heart. Problem is, Renfrows are few and far between. And these coaches just suck at development.
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National Champion [7749]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Late offers over transfers
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Sep 5, 2023, 1:15 PM
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Plus, there are plenty of dudes in the portal that fit the Clemson culture.
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Clemson Conqueror [11106]
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Re: Late offers over transfers
Sep 5, 2023, 12:32 PM
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Wade Woodaz was a fall back offer after Jaren Kanak de committed and followed Venables to OK.
Jury is still out on Lawson.
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National Champion [7931]
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Re: Late offers over transfers
Sep 5, 2023, 12:35 PM
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I’ll give you Woodaz. Great player.
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National Champion [7749]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Late offers over transfers
Sep 5, 2023, 1:11 PM
[ in reply to Re: Late offers over transfers ] |
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Wade Woodaz committed to Clemson on November 25th, 2021. Jaren Kanak decommitted from Clemson on December 23rd, 2021. So Woodaz wasn't a fallback guy after someone else decommitted.
As far as Lawson is concerned, I'm just not confident that he will ever play meaningful snaps for us. Denhoff and Parker will start for us next year. Ojiegbe and Hoffler were 4 star recruits that are going to pass him on the depth chart. We are signing Mayo and Kissayi in this class. Maybe I'm wrong about him.
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Dynasty Maker [3139]
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Re: Late offers over transfers
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Sep 5, 2023, 1:07 PM
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Ajou Ajou, EJ Williams, Dacari Collins, and Frank Ladson were supposed to be good
Stellato and Randall have done nothing.
This staff has proven that they cannot develop WR talent. Why do think Tyler Brown will be different?
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Orange Beast [6428]
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Re: Late offers over transfers
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Sep 5, 2023, 1:14 PM
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I want Jeff Scott back to coach receivers and recruit.
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National Champion [7749]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Late offers over transfers
Sep 5, 2023, 1:14 PM
[ in reply to Re: Late offers over transfers ] |
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My eyes tell me that he will be. He has the speed to create separation. He shows open field ability on tape. I remember doing the eval on him and just being impressed. I have a feeling he sees the field more as the season progresses.
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110%er [4040]
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Im glad you forgot Adam Randall***
Sep 5, 2023, 1:16 PM
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Ring of Honor [22682]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Who is this Randall fella?
Sep 5, 2023, 1:27 PM
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Seriously, all we heard about all summer was his "transformation" into this great WR.
He had 8 yards and one catch last night. At least he didn't drop passes like Turner.
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National Champion [7749]
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Re: Who is this Randall fella?
Sep 5, 2023, 1:29 PM
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He did drop one pass, if memory serves me correctly.
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Ring of Honor [22682]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Great. Worse than I imagined.***
Sep 5, 2023, 1:30 PM
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National Champion [7749]
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Re: Great. Worse than I imagined.***
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Sep 5, 2023, 1:32 PM
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How bad was it seeing Cole Turner gaining zero separation on their 6'4 CB on that deep post route? Dabo said he's one of the fastest on the team. So sad.
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Ring of Honor [22682]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I know. WR is a joke at this point.
Sep 5, 2023, 3:15 PM
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All the misses are stacking up so high it's not even funny. Or it is development? It's so bad it's hard to tell. =(
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Paw Master [17409]
TigerPulse: 92%
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No, jokes are funny, this is a travesty***
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Sep 5, 2023, 4:36 PM
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National Champion [7749]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Im glad you forgot Adam Randall***
Sep 5, 2023, 1:28 PM
[ in reply to Im glad you forgot Adam Randall*** ] |
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We didn't offer Randall late though. He was out top target at WR for that cycle. And he committed to Clemson pretty early.
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Solid Orange [1349]
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Re: Late offers over transfers
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Sep 5, 2023, 2:23 PM
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Wish Dabo could channel ole Bill Wilhelm right now. Baseball team kind of slipped into mediocrity in late 80s early 90s. He brought in Jack as assistant and that infusion of energy (and we all know Jack has energy) got them back to number 1 seed in Omaha
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Valley Legend [12583]
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Re: Late offers over transfers
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Sep 5, 2023, 2:43 PM
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Cole Turner does not have potential. He is a walk on level receiver.
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Paw Warrior [4907]
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Excellent post***
Sep 5, 2023, 4:42 PM
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Legend [6946]
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Re: Late offers over transfers
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Sep 5, 2023, 8:52 PM
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BINGO!!! You hit the nail on the head. To say we were at 85 back in the spring and could not take anyone was a huge distortion of terms. There were spots available, Dabo just chose to fill them with non-contributors. Makes no sense whatsoever!
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Solid Orange [1365]
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Re: Late offers over transfers
Sep 5, 2023, 10:16 PM
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I don't know that I'd call Antonio "great." He's quite good, and far and away our best receiver. But if we're talking about wanting to be a playoff team, he's not elite. Go look at our playoff teams. Do you see a receiver he'd start over? Tee? Justyn? Hunter? Amari? Artavis? I'd say Antonio is a good receiver in line with Cornell Powell.
I'll wait on Tyler Brown, though I hope you're right.
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Orange Elite [5395]
TigerPulse: 100%
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