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Freshman [-79]
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Im sure this will be met with some hostility, but
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Sep 5, 2023, 10:14 AM
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The transfer portal doesn’t build elite teams over time, and there is zero evidence to say that’s the case. Period.
Some transfer players are good, most are not all that good. Look at UofSC, for example. Tons of portal kids, and 9 out of 10 of them don’t seem to be crap.
The ONLY reason you hear portal names at FSU, and automatically assume they’re great, is because they’re 2-deep is literally full of transfers. LSU is also full of transfers - what did they do to compete with FSU? Nothing!
You can be great with great recruits and reloading. It’s not like Bama, UGa, and Ohio State have a 2-deep made up of transfers. They do it through recruiting… and solid execution.
The portal didn’t lose to UofSC, UT, or Duke. It was execution. That in itself is a trending problem, but it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PORTAL.
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Rock Defender [64]
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Re: Im sure this will be met with some hostility, but
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Sep 5, 2023, 10:16 AM
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Spot on.
Nobody wants to hear it though.
The portal wouldn’t have won that game for us last night and it sure as heck didn’t lose it
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110%er [6611]
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No Hostility but transfers have to be part of the program
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Sep 5, 2023, 10:17 AM
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With NIL and the Xfer portal most programs have to use every measure to make your portal better. Since the 2019 National Title Game team Clemson has not replaced those players with the same level of talent.
There are good players out there than can enhance the team and Dabo needs to go after them.
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CU Medallion [65528]
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You should save yourself some time and angst, and go ahead
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Sep 5, 2023, 10:21 AM
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and find somebody else to root for, until Dabo Swinney retires. Because, your Portal Dreams are not going to come true. Dabo has built his program his way, he believes it works, and he is not going to change it for you, or me, or anybody else. You can rail against it all you want, It won't change anything.
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110%er [6611]
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Re: You should save yourself some time and angst, and go ahead
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Sep 5, 2023, 10:25 AM
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I'm not railing against anything. I'm just calling it as I see it. You are probably right. Dabo won't change. That being said the rules that allowed him to be successful no longer exists and he is still operating like the rules haven't changed.
I hope it works. I really do.
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Freshman [-79]
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Who are the elite, transfer portal teams exactly?***
Sep 5, 2023, 10:35 AM
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Scout Team [186]
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Re: Who are the elite, transfer portal teams exactly?***
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Sep 5, 2023, 11:13 AM
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colorado looked good but that really is a recruited team and a whole team at that.
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110%er [6611]
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In case You Aren't Up to date on current events
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Sep 5, 2023, 3:49 PM
[ in reply to Who are the elite, transfer portal teams exactly?*** ] |
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Schools around the nation, several top names that used to stink are supplementing their rosters with experienced players that can make an immediate impact rather some 3 star out of high school that needs a year or 2 of development.
Wake up and smell the coffee slick.
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Freshman [-79]
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So not a single elite team then? Cool. Thats the point.
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Sep 6, 2023, 9:03 AM
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Yet again, the portal is NOT the reason we lost a single game the last 3 years.
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110%er [6611]
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How about the last 4 games in which we lost 3?
Sep 6, 2023, 11:57 AM
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It's clear you don't think a few better players at key positions wouldn't have made a difference. So be it. Be the Frog on the water having the heat slowly turn up...
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Freshman [-79]
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Did you read the OP?
Sep 7, 2023, 1:14 PM
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What, should we have gotten a transfer QB and sat Cade and DJ? That’s nuts!
WRs? So we’re going to kick aside a 4 or 4 star recruit just because we MIGHT get another guy from the portal? Again, portal kids are moving for immediate playing time. They don’t move to be depth. So when you bring in a portal kid you make him promises - ones that go against the grain of the program. When you come to Clemson on a scholarship, that scholarship will be honored until a degree and even graduate study. But unlike some of these chump programs (NOT ELITE) we don’t kick ANYONE to the curb or out or the program based on taking a chance on someone who was unhappy at their previous program.
Now, Dabo has said time and time again, we’ll use the portal when absolutely needed - like injuries or attrition - but we’re not going to promise a quitter a job to replace a guy who’s working his a__ off.
That’s not what Dabo does, and that’s a-ok with me. Again, THE PORTAL ISNT MAKING ANYONE ELITE. It’s a band aid or quick fix to bridge a gap. The portal is NOT the magic sauce that creates national champions.
Yeah, you’ll say, “but what about WRs?”. They are fine! We have like 4-5 HIGHLY REGARDED KIDS, ones who are in desperate need of a system and QB to run it.
Look back to last year when Cade came in against UNC and yes even UT. We were TONS better at the passing game and suddenly the “slow, can’t get separation” receivers are free and catching passes all over the field.
Yea, Cade struggled with recognizing the field and made some “freshman-like” mistakes.
TCU looked the same way last year, but they were lucky not to play a hot, experienced team like Duke. No joke.
We WILL get way better in this offense. Cade and the WRs WILL be connecting on a ton of passes as the season goes along, and we will once again be a front runner for the ACCCG and a playoff north.
Mark it down.
Again, the portal is a not a solution for elite teams - like we’re fully capable of being/
Step off the ledge man. We will be fine.
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Orange Blooded [2480]
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110%er [6474]
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Freshman [-79]
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And?
Sep 8, 2023, 11:48 AM
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Nobody knew DJ was going to crap the bed last year, if THATS your point. We aren’t on the market for a QB. We aren’t looking to kick anyone out for Ann unknown quitter at any position.
One offs are not proving any points. You don’t need portal kids to depend and build an elite program, and we haven’t lost a single game because of the portal.
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Recruit [94]
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Re: You should save yourself some time and angst, and go ahead
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Sep 8, 2023, 12:58 PM
[ in reply to You should save yourself some time and angst, and go ahead ] |
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and find somebody else to root for, until Dabo Swinney retires. Because, your Portal Dreams are not going to come true. Dabo has built his program his way, he believes it works, and he is not going to change it for you, or me, or anybody else. You can rail against it all you want, It won't change anything.
Then Dabo is a fool and we will soon go back to the Tommy West years.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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Here's another one^^^^^^^^^^***
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Sep 5, 2023, 10:20 AM
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Freshman [-79]
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LOL. Fail.
Sep 5, 2023, 10:36 AM
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What else is new?
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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Tell us how good our Coaches and WRs are.***
Sep 5, 2023, 11:16 AM
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Freshman [-79]
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4th most P5 wins, in the last 2 down seasons.
Sep 6, 2023, 9:05 AM
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You apparently like failing?
Your schtick seems like one the mods would perpetrate. You know, like that fake Judge Keller account. She didn’t mind failing every time she posted either. You go girl!
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Standout [327]
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Re: Im sure this will be met with some hostility, but
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Sep 5, 2023, 10:22 AM
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I don’t think the issue is the recruiting and the portal and people say Dabo needs to adapt. We’re still getting great players. The problem is they’re declining under our coaching staff every year they’re getting worse and worse something has been inept in our coaching our players in the NFL can’t even stay healthy.
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Freshman [-79]
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Exactly. What weve seen the last 3 losses had nothing to do with NIL or Portal
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Sep 5, 2023, 10:30 AM
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Again, who are the elite teams full of transfer players? NONE.
And we have a great NIL program. We haven’t lost 3 of 4 due to the NIL. We “pay” players just fine.
We have great players who didn’t play great in the last 3 losses. Execution is literally killing us. We’re moving the ball up and down the field, then something in the execution department rears it’s ugly head.
This is going to a bit conversational, but the execution has been largely on the QB in those 3 losses, regardless of name. Need MUCH better play from that position. Young Mr. Klubnick has not yet proven to be Deshaun or Trevor. He can be great, possibly, but he’s not there yet. Just for a second think about the exact same roster with the exception of QB. Put Trevor or Deshaun in those games, and do we lose any of them? I think that answer is unequivocally NO.
We need better play at the QB position, and we neee it now. Not transfer players.
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All-Conference [410]
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Re: Im sure this will be met with some hostility, but
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Sep 5, 2023, 10:23 AM
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Need several NEW assistants to develop the recruits first
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All-Conference [410]
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Re: Im sure this will be met with some hostility, but
Sep 5, 2023, 10:24 AM
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Assistants from the outside who will chew some butts
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Freshman [-79]
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Orange Blooded [2055]
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Re: Im sure this will be met with some hostility, but
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Sep 5, 2023, 10:23 AM
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Refusing to leverage the portal is just the easiest thing to point to, but it is one of MANY things that unfortunately currently ails our program. Most of them can be fixed over time, but not quickly and maybe not with who and what we got running the show right now.
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All-Pro [682]
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Re: Im sure this will be met with some hostility, but
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Sep 5, 2023, 10:28 AM
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We seem to be regressing each year. We look worse than last year. Cade don’t appear any better than DJ and that’s scary
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All-TigerNet [13530]
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Re: Im sure this will be met with some hostility, but
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Sep 5, 2023, 10:26 AM
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The portal did not lose us the game but listen to every broadcast this season for how many times they call out a transfer making a play. The point is that it is becoming as important a tool for recruiting as high school and refusing to even consider it is simply stubborn and immature. The elite programs in the country supplement with it to their advantage. They see it and use it to make themselves better, particularly when there are known gaps or depth issues in their programs.
The times have changed and the portal is only going to become more of a weapon, not less of one. What got you to be successful is not going to keep you successful when everyone else is changing around you and making themselves better.
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Freshman [-79]
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Which elite, playoff teams are you meaning ?***
Sep 5, 2023, 10:31 AM
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All-TigerNet [13530]
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Re: Which elite, playoff teams are you meaning ?***
Sep 5, 2023, 10:38 AM
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Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, OK, etc. Practically every Top 25 program is at one degree or another related to portal use.
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Freshman [-79]
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Really ? Theyve added a player or two, but UGa hasnt wont the natty
Sep 5, 2023, 10:41 AM
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2 years running because of the transfer portal. They’ve done it with the recruitment of great players.
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All-TigerNet [13530]
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Re: Really ? Theyve added a player or two, but UGa hasnt wont the natty
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Sep 5, 2023, 11:01 AM
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Pieces my friend, it all adds up. The little things make a difference particularly when the best programs are so closely matched. No one says the portal makes you a NC but it is a tool that when utilized properly and executed well can help make a difference. It also helps you "go faster" to fill gaps, add depth etc. You aren't waiting for 2 years for a Freshman to be ready to contribute. You can bring in solid, experienced starters from other programs to help you, i.e. our WR situation.
Again, you have to be spot on with your talent identification and selective with filling your needs with the best available.
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Freshman [-79]
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Pieces? Like who? Again, we arent going to promise a quitter from another team
Sep 8, 2023, 8:41 AM
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a Clemson players job.
Who? Don’t say WRs, because that is NOT why we’ve lost 3 of 4. The majority of the issue I’m those losses has been the play at QB.
DJ was 8-29 vs USuC, and we still “shoulda” won the game.
We moved the ball up and down the field against UT and choked in the red zone.
We left multiple scores at the door of our endzone at Duke.
The WRs were fine. We need a QB and a system, and what we saw Saturday was a 19 year old kid not yet named Trevor or Deshaun. Once he gets his feet under him and sees the field, this offense will take off and the chicken littles will go quiet and pretend they never said anything.
Just watch. We didn’t lose 3 of 4 due to the portal. It’s cool to imagine so, but look closer at why we lost. Nothing to do with a portal - just need a QB and a system.
It starts tomorrow. See ya there!
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All-TigerNet [13530]
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Freshman [-79]
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Dude, one-offs do not prove a point.***
Sep 6, 2023, 9:11 AM
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All-TigerNet [13530]
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Re: Really ? Theyve added a player or two, but UGa hasnt wont the natty
Sep 5, 2023, 11:05 AM
[ in reply to Really ? Theyve added a player or two, but UGa hasnt wont the natty ] |
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You also have to remember that teams like GA lose a lot to the portal so they need to fill some of those gaps beyond just high school recruiting. Since 2019, they have lost 48 players to the portal. Alabama loses a bunch too.
Message was edited by: slwcu79®
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Freshman [-79]
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Still doesnt change the facts of the matter.
Sep 7, 2023, 1:17 PM
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That is, the portal is not building playoff teams. When it does, then let’s talk.
FSU hasn’t done squat, so don’t go there.
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All-In [30460]
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Perhaps not but if FSU balls out this year their recruiting
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Sep 5, 2023, 10:30 AM
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Will improve… kids want to play and win
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Freshman [-79]
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True, but again, you lean on recruiting and development for elite teams.
Sep 5, 2023, 10:34 AM
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FSU still hasn’t done a darn thing but “upset” an overrated LSU, also with a 2-deep made up of a ton of new transfer players.
They beat LSU (transfer U), and who else? Let’s see what happen in the Valley in less than two weeks.
Go Tigers! We ain’t done y’all!
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All-In [36410]
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Oh Come on, yes they use the portal, but the team core is
Sep 5, 2023, 10:39 AM
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not. Colorado is what you describe.
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Freshman [-79]
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You may want to look at their 2-deep a little closer.
Sep 5, 2023, 10:47 AM
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They’ve won one big game. And LSU is built just like them.
FSU has an elite QB and they executed very, very well. That’s it. You remember we just beat them last year, with DJ and Streeter?
Can you at least let us play them and see what happens?
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Orange Blooded [4970]
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No one is saying build a team from the portal
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Sep 5, 2023, 10:32 AM
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You use the portal to fill areas of need. We need WRs with speed who can get separation, and the portal is a way to fill that need. We can’t continue down this path of refusing to evolve. We’re getting left behind.
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All-Conference [434]
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Re: Im sure this will be met with some hostility, but
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Sep 5, 2023, 10:33 AM
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Correct it’s not meant to build elite teams over time. It is however meant to help hide decencies in a roster until you can get the right pieces in place for the long term. There are clear holes in this roster that dipping into the portal could help mask. That’s just a true fact of the matter, regardless of if you, dabo or any fan wants to face that.
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Orange Blooded [3110]
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Re: Im sure this will be met with some hostility, but
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Sep 5, 2023, 10:34 AM
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I agree, but I do think we need to start pulling scholarships from players that NEVER contribute so that we can offer more players per class. Hey, the players wanted to be able to transfer any time they want and not lose eligibility, then we have the right to tell them to enter that portal when they don’t pan out. Alabama, LSU, OSU, Oklahoma, etc. Have been doing that since before the portal. It was a lot more brutal to a player then. Clemson is 3rd from the lowest in the country with how many offers we give out. I’m not saying we should throw out so many that it doesn’t make it elite any more, but our recruiting dept has let us down. We have whiffed on what seems like EVERY WR and OL in the past 2-3 classes.
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All-In [48350]
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Re: Im sure this will be met with some hostility, but
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Sep 5, 2023, 10:36 AM
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I can get on board with that. However I do think we should use it to supplement depth. We have a development problem and/or scheme issue. We have great talent. And should have been able to impose our will on Duke. That applies to both sides of the ball.
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Freshman [-79]
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The only issue with that is transfer players arent moving to be depth.
Sep 5, 2023, 10:39 AM
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Most all of them are transferring because they weren’t playing enough. Kids don’t move to be buried on a depth chart, hoping a need arises.
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All-TigerNet [13530]
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Re: The only issue with that is transfer players arent moving to be depth.
Sep 5, 2023, 10:45 AM
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Look at the key transfers who made a big difference for FSU against LSU. They were all starters at their previous schools. The big programs aren't taking the guys who simply want to play more. They are identifying the talent that can come in right away and help them. You have to evaluate the portal just like you evaluate HS and be selective. We aren't talking about the Colorado approach here.
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Freshman [-79]
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Since when is FSU elite?
Sep 5, 2023, 10:51 AM
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They haven’t even made the playoffs but one time.
Stop crowning them. OF COURSE you heard transfer names in that game. Both FSU and LSU are built with a 2-deep full of transfers. That’s why you heard their names.
FSU won because they have elite QB play and they executed well. We lost because Cade appears like he’s still in high school and the entire team failed in areas of execution.
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All-In [26027]
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Re: Im sure this will be met with some hostility, but
Sep 5, 2023, 10:50 AM
[ in reply to Re: Im sure this will be met with some hostility, but ] |
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We lost to USuC because Dabo would not pull DJ period. We were embarrassed on national television in our last 3 games. We changed OC but nothing improved, probably even regressed, so the problems lie in many other areas too that were not addressed. Dabo is just too stubborn to listen to other ideas and it is costing us big tome. I'm afraid our elite moniker is now gone. Many coaches need to be removed if this play continues but Dabo will do nothing. He has hired too many friends and people tied to his family instead of actual coaches and it is showing big time.
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Freshman [-79]
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We were ahead until 10 minutes left on the game.
Sep 5, 2023, 10:55 AM
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Still had a chance to win with not fumbling a punt return and only needing 15-20 yards and a FG.
There is no guarantee Cade would have beaten USuC. He was a HUGE reason for the two losses in a row. Love the kid, but he STILL doesn’t appear ready. Just like last year.
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All-In [36410]
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Concur, This is a Coaching Culture Problem and it is Scary
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Sep 5, 2023, 10:38 AM
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We have unquestioned top consensus talent to be a CFP team. This team does not have an identity yet, and better find one TODAY. Coaches create the ecosystem for identity and culture.
Win next 3 games, including FSU, convincingly and this Duke thing becomes a teaching moment and part of a cool story. Stumble again and Nelly bar the door, it will get ugly.
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All-Conference [441]
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Re: Im sure this will be met with some hostility, but
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Sep 5, 2023, 10:40 AM
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Agree. The problem is coaching and lack of innovation...period. from the top down the program has grown stale. If you're not continually adapting you ate falling behind. The portal is just one part of not adapting to where college football currently is. While I agree NIL and the transfer portal has made the game worse off, it is what it is. Either accept the times and adapt, or get left behind. Currently, we are getting left behind.
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110%er [7238]
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There Needs To Be Transfers At Position Coaching Jobs
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Sep 5, 2023, 10:40 AM
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The WR Coach is obviously failing. The Talent we have on the roster is embarrassing to say the least. There's no reason why we cannot have a win by a large margin every week.
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CU Guru [1932]
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Re: Im sure this will be met with some hostility, but
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Sep 5, 2023, 11:02 AM
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We lost the game because most of our offensive staff is incompetent. This is widely understood. I would say that if you have an opening and miss on your blue chip options you go to the portal. You don't simply keep working you way down the talent list until someone accepts. On the other hand it hardly matters because Dabo has hired to many coaching imposters who would ruin the kid anyway.
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Freshman [-79]
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ONE GAME?!
Sep 6, 2023, 9:09 AM
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You are a true football guru fella!
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Head Coach [785]
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Re: Im sure this will be met with some hostility, but
Sep 5, 2023, 11:09 AM
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This is a fair point and not one I’m hostile about. That said, I don’t think Clemson can recruit 2-deep at a level with Alabama, Ohio St and Georgia. We have far more transfers out than we do in. And when you’re constantly backfilling with less developed talent, it’s really hard to have the depth you need to win at an elite level in a 15 game season.
I also think we’ve passed the point where not having transfers come in and compete is helping. I know Dabo doesn’t believe this but since 2019, our teams have been playing softer than I ever remember Clemson playing (for more than a one-off game). Those teams had dudes behind the starters, guys pushing for time. Not sure we have that all that much anymore.
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Freshman [-79]
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We can keep up with any of those teams and have proven it (2nd best playoff team).
Sep 6, 2023, 9:17 AM
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We don’t have the best defensive coordinator in the country anymore. Point.
Cade Klubnick is not ‘yet’ Trevor Lawrence or Deshaun Watson. He may never be them, but so am 100% sure the kids a winner and he can and will get better at Riley’s system. If the dude from TCU can look like Tom Brady in Riley’s system, then dang it so can Cade.
We’re not currently elite. We’re still 4th in P5 wins the last 3 seasons.
We can beat FSU. We will improve week by week. Just like TCU did. Let’s let this play play out before we all throw in the towel after that crazy anomaly we saw the other night.
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CU Guru [1321]
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If it is used right it can...
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Sep 5, 2023, 4:00 PM
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Would you rather have 4 true freshman WR who have never played a down of college football or 2 that you can develop and 2 experienced guys from the portal that you can rely on right away?
You're right the Deion Sanders method of brining in 59 transfers will not build an elite program. Heck half of those will probably declare for the portal before the 4th game of the season.
The portal isn't the end all, be all but it can help if used correctly. Now, does Clemson evaluate it's needs vs what's available in the portal? The answer is, nobody on here knows and we never will know unless a member of the coaching staff tells us.
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All-TigerNet [11170]
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agree...but can be a quick fix to fix glaring holes
1
Sep 6, 2023, 9:13 AM
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like having little, slow WRs
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Freshman [-79]
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I think the WRs are way better than the game we saw Saturday.
Sep 6, 2023, 9:24 AM
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This is a proven system, and TCU took a minute to get it right.
I believe we haven’t seen anything yet. Once we get it understood, then we’ll see a lot of receptions and long balls. One point is true about WRs tho, they absolutely need to fight for the ball better. It was always that dudes were running free when Trevor and Deshaun were here; it was that they could go up and high point and fight for the ball like their life depends on it.
That’s coaching, and I’m starting to get a little concerned over what we’re NOT seeing from a fundamental standpoint. Just not sure the coaching message is resonating.
Free Jeff Scott!
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All-Conference [440]
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Just think about this for a moment.
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Sep 6, 2023, 9:49 AM
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If you’re a high value high school player that virtually everyone would like to sign, how much does it mean to you to KNOW that the program you commit to isn’t actively shopping the portal for something better at your position ? But on the other hand has a rock solid reputation for dancing with the one that brought them.
How important is it to know there is a genuine commitment to trust in developing YOU and to roll with YOU out there on the field, vice looking to roll you out of there as soon as there’s a better option available via the transfer portal ?
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Scout Team [186]
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Re: Im sure this will be met with some hostility, but
Sep 6, 2023, 11:18 AM
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If you get the right players that will fill your needs and have an instant impact on day one then yes it can help propel you faster at least for one season or two but for longevity which seems to be a thing going away quickly it wont, but now its a win at all cost mentality for alot of colleges and win now not 2 to three years down the road, i agree alot of portal players dont make much of an impact but the ones that do especially on good overall teams it makes a huge difference.
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Legend [17615]
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2021 Pre-Portal: Clemson 30 SCU 0 in Columbia
Sep 6, 2023, 11:29 AM
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2022 Post-Portal: SCU 31 Clemson 30 in Clemson.
So you're right. Clemson Offense scored 30 each game. But SCU QB and transfer players scored 31 more points. As for UNC and SCU, Mack Brown outcoached Beamer in Game 1 just as Elko outcoached Dabo.
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Freshman [-79]
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Thats hilarious ! Like a data scientist huh?
Sep 10, 2023, 4:56 AM
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The portal and transferring didn’t start before the 2022 season. USuC didn’t beat us because they were better than us because of a magic portal. We lost to USuC because our QB was 8-29. The end.
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Athletic Dir [858]
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Re: Im sure this will be met with some hostility, but
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Sep 8, 2023, 9:37 AM
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I would go with your 9 out of 10 but it may be more like 99 out of 100. I would wager the vast majority of players in the portal are there because they could not cut the mustard where they were. Hunter Johnson comes to mind. The vast majority of them go to lesser schools where they know they can start.
Take Alabama as an example. 21 transfers out and only 5...count them 5 transfers in. They all left because they were not starters and never were going to be starters.
So I think it is totally absurd to think anyone can build an elite program from the portal. It might shore up one of the also-rans to be a better team by taking the table scraps from one of the big boys, but it is not the path to national championship programs. Sure once in a while a blue-chip player like Caleb Williams uses the portal to follow his coach to a new school, but those guys are the exception not the rule.
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Freshman [-79]
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Bingo. Well said.***
Sep 10, 2023, 5:01 AM
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Orange Blooded [3663]
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Re: Im sure this will be met with some hostility, but
Sep 8, 2023, 9:47 AM
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Just wait until FSU game and you will see how the portal has changed their team at least this year
They got some studs but they also are using the NIL to get their program back
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110%er [5225]
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Portal tranfers should be supplementary in nature....
Sep 8, 2023, 12:55 PM
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not players to build a foundation with in my opinion. Use the portal to fill specific spots on offense or defense. Your recruiting would be used to build the foundation and get the "Clemson Guys" on the roster.
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All-TigerNet [13530]
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Re: Im sure this will be met with some hostility, but
Sep 10, 2023, 5:13 AM
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The portal wasn’t expected to make teams elite; it was expected to make them better. And if it didn’t do that, no one would use it like they are.
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Orange Blooded [3290]
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Re: Im sure this will be met with some hostility, but
1
Sep 10, 2023, 7:49 AM
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Since 2018 we lost to these teams with transfer QBs: LSU, UGA, Ohio St, UosfSC, Tenn
And these with Recruited QBs, ND (2), Pitt, NC St, Duke.
So half of our losses were to transfer QBs.
I'm not saying that we should have gone after a QB, but transfers have certainly played a big part in at least half of our losses since 2018.
I appreciate the way Dabo recruits but a player here or there could have filled some holes. And yes they would have to fit Clemson, which does make them harder to find.
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