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Replies: 39
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Hall of Famer [22362]
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Allow me to vent a little.
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Oct 23, 2023, 8:43 AM
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Y'all know that FSU is my favorite team. I think I've been around here long enough for y'all to know that Clemson is my 2nd favorite team. I've been to Death Valley the past two years. Met a bunch of folks including many who post here.
So, please understand, what I'm about to type is not a blast about Clemson. It is just thoughts I have coming out of frustration. And, I'm not a coach or a recruiting guru or an Athletic Director wanna be. I'm not gonna call for any specific solutions to the problems I'm about the post.
In no particular order:
I grossly overestimated Clemson this year. I fully expected a 12-0 team, or 11-1 at the worst, and another ACC championship. I expected the offense to be top 10 in the nation. I expected better play from the QB, RB, WR and OL. None have played up to my expectations. I have kept thinking they would get better. I have kept thinking, "If they just wouldn't turn the ball over, they would be fine." I don't believe that any more. Turnovers are a symptom, not the disease.
Defense has generally played well. I didn't watch the Miami game. But, from a few highlights and from what I've heard from folks who analyze the game, I can't imagine what happened in the 4th quarter. I have no idea how the Miami OL dominated the DL the way it apparently did.
I sense that there is something just not right. I would be just guessing if I tried to say, "The problem is...."
Coaching? Which ones? Talent? Poor evaluation of players? Poor development of players? Players not trusting the coaches? Players not trusting each other? Not using the portal? Dabo being too loyal to certain coaches?
I'll let others speculate which of the list I just gave are true. I'll just say I'm convinced something is amiss and it needs to be fixed.
2024 is VERY important year for Dabo and Clemson.
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All-TigerNet [13530]
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Re: Allow me to vent a little.
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Oct 23, 2023, 8:45 AM
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No argument here…
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CU Guru [1469]
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Re: Allow me to vent a little.
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Oct 23, 2023, 8:49 AM
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Check out what Mick told Rocky in Rocky III: "The worst thing happened to you--you got civilized." Our team is civilized--there is no spark, no life, no desire.
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Commissioner [910]
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Re: Allow me to vent a little.
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Oct 23, 2023, 8:58 AM
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Because the man who brought all the fire and passion to the building, both offense and defense, left for Oklahoma. Venables was always the best coach on this staff and it’s not even close. We miss him TREMENDOUSLY.
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Orange Blooded [2908]
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And he knows it too***
Oct 23, 2023, 10:09 AM
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Orange Blooded [4048]
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Re: Allow me to vent a little.
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Oct 23, 2023, 10:51 AM
[ in reply to Re: Allow me to vent a little. ] |
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Venables was here the year Watson threw a million interceptions too so what's your point?
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Legend [19950]
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Re: Allow me to vent a little.
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Oct 23, 2023, 1:48 PM
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It was 17 interceptions (and 41 touchdown passes) in 15 games, and Clemson won the national championship that year.
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Trainer [44]
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Re: Allow me to vent a little.
Oct 23, 2023, 11:35 AM
[ in reply to Re: Allow me to vent a little. ] |
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Venables was also here the year we didn’t go to the ACC Championship and needed the Cheezit Bowl to win 10 games. He was a great coach but some of y’all apparently have super short memories.
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110%er [6982]
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Re: Allow me to vent a little.
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Oct 23, 2023, 9:02 AM
[ in reply to Re: Allow me to vent a little. ] |
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It all starts at the top. fat happy. No more killer instinct.
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110%er [5084]
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CU Guru [1511]
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Re: Allow me to vent a little.
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Oct 23, 2023, 8:50 AM
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Sounds right to me…
I have thought that both lines play too tall
Need to keep their pads down a bit for leverage on both sides
Seems like Miami in particular got underneath our pads late
Our DL seemed gassed and I could figure on why we did not rotate the interior guys more for a fresh set of legs
I say that all while remaining in the 98.5 percentile
Thank you
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Letterman [283]
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Part of DL problem Saturday night was depth at DE.
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Oct 23, 2023, 9:06 AM
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Early in the game, we were playing Peter Woods at DE. With XT out, we functionally had 3 DEs ready to play in Mascoll, Parker and Denhoff. In reality, we had 2 DE capable of playing in that game (not Denhoff). As the game wore on, it was obvious that Parker and Mascoll weren't strong/big enough to hang with Miami's game plan. So we went to 3 DT & 1 DE for a lot of the game. That taxed the depth on the DT position, which is why you saw Page and Capehart so much in the 4th. I think both of those guys are capable of playing, but they are a step below Woods, Davis and Ruke.
Not having XT was a problem that compounded itself as the game went on. Not having a 4th DE ready to play high level football is a recruiting problem that should have been evident before last signing day.
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Team Captain [495]
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Re: Part of DL problem Saturday night was depth at DE.
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Oct 23, 2023, 1:27 PM
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Certainly think missing XT was a rotation problem, but in reality, I think he would have been a liability late in this game, too, since he is undersized. Also, unless I am mistaken, Capehart went out injured sometime early second half.
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110%er [5038]
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CU Guru [1863]
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Re: Allow me to vent a little.
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Oct 23, 2023, 8:55 AM
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There doesn't seem to be a natural leader on this team. No QB going up and down the sideline encouraging everyone. No defensive standout getting in peoples faces when mistakes are made. Seems as though everyone is standing around waiting on someone else to make a play, all the while dreading when the next crucial mistake will be made. It's almost like everyone (fans included) simply don't believe we have what it takes to win big games this year. I don't think it's NIL or Transfer Portal stuff. This team just expects to play and win without doing all the little things correctly. Too many missed blocks, dropped balls, fumbles, and missed kicks. Lack of concentration for sure. If they don't get it fixed soon, I fear we are destined for a 7-5 or 6-6 year with a crappy bowl game we'll probably lose.
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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Its not rah rah encouragement on the sidelines, its leading on the field
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Oct 23, 2023, 10:29 AM
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with play.
This team is anti-clutch. They can make plays all day, except when its really necessary. It's mental, it's belief, and it can't be measured with a timer or a weigh scale. But its obvious when we see it.
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Orange Blooded [2182]
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Re: Allow me to vent a little.
Oct 23, 2023, 2:09 PM
[ in reply to Re: Allow me to vent a little. ] |
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It's not game leadership that hurts as much as practice leadership. This team is not prepared. Something has changed at practice and it must be coaching. They play like they practice
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Orange Blooded [2929]
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Re: Allow me to vent a little.
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Oct 23, 2023, 8:55 AM
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Something is clearly wrong beyond just X's and O'S or Jimmy's and Joe's to anyone who watches this team. It seems to be a culture, confidence, and/or team chemistry issue. Shipley yelling at Spiller on the sideline is not a good look, especially considering his play has been mediocre to bad the majority of this season. "Ship Happens" has been replaced with "S**t Happens." Teams that are mentally weak make bonehead mistakes and that is what has happened time and time again this season.
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Hall of Famer [22362]
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Team chemistry.
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Oct 23, 2023, 12:49 PM
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I don't know how to define that. But, whatever it is, it seems to be lacking, doesn't it?
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Scout Team [186]
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Re: Allow me to vent a little.
Oct 24, 2023, 10:55 AM
[ in reply to Re: Allow me to vent a little. ] |
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Shipley has not had a good year so far and our running style and offensive line has alot to do with it. Handing the ball off in the shotgun with the back having no running start is one reason that is obvious. Not using the backs more in the passing game is another and of course fumbles in red zone which has happened 5 times this year. Wonder why we don't run more toss sweeps where the back can hit the hole with some speed instead of handing it off from a dead stop and dancing to the right and left and get tackled from behind at the line of scrimmage or a 1 yd loss and at best a yard gain most of the time. I hate those mesh plays because it allows the defense time to react and swarm the ball.
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CU Medallion [65528]
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Re: Allow me to vent a little.
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Oct 23, 2023, 8:56 AM
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I think, sad to say, that complacency had set in on the Clemson program. We (the coaching we) evidently believed that what we were doing worked so well that all we had to do was plug in different players, and it would just keep going forever. DJ was the first non-fitting piece of the puzzle. Instead of working with what he had as talents, we tried to fit that square peg in a round hole, and he regressed here, rather than developing.
That set off a common thread, as can been seen by the REGRESSION of our offensive line play this year. Our inexperienced offensive line COACHING STAFF had two weeks to prepare for a Miami team that had just gotten beat by GEORGIA TECH, and couldn't crack the code. Dabo would never make a midseason change, but Austin, at the very least, has got to go after this train wreck of a season is done.
If Garrett Riley is going to stay at Clemson, he needs to be heavily involved in recruiting his OWN coaches to implement and run his offensive schemes. What we have seen this year does both a disservice to him, and to Clemson. We certainly have not gotten what we paid for there, either because of interference from Dabo, or assistant coaches like Austin's ineptitude. Take your pick.
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110%er [5961]
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As only a true Clemson fan can respond
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Oct 23, 2023, 8:58 AM
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and as much as I want to argue with an FSU fan, I simply have nothing to battle you with.
Nothing has went the Tigers way this year, primarily self-inflicted wounds that are recurring.
At this point, nothing would surprise me about this Tiger team.
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CU Medallion [58427]
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Beautifully put, and this is exactly what I have been saying:
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Oct 23, 2023, 9:16 AM
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I sense that there is something just not right. I would be just guessing if I tried to say, "The problem is...."
It seems to me that we are underperforming across the board. I realize we miss the truly elite players like Trevor/Deshaun/Spiller/Higgins/Williams/Watkins etc., but we are still loaded with legit 4 and 5-star talent, and we simply aren't getting the most out of what we've got, not even close.
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All-In [27374]
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Re: Beautifully put, and this is exactly what I have been saying:
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Oct 23, 2023, 9:25 AM
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Nothing wrong with Tiger football that recruiting a few bad #### MFers want cure . To many choir boys trying to play this game for tough guys. Bring back the Pennsylvania coal miners and leave the nice guys in the synagogue’
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All-In [31315]
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Re: Allow me to vent a little.
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Oct 23, 2023, 9:23 AM
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Wish I had the answers but it’s definitely an internal issue that no one on this site is ever going to know unless someone comes out with it. I believe we have missed on a few recruits for sure but I believe it’s more to do with the coaching. Clemson should beat Duke just off of the talent gap but we lost big. FSU is not as good as most think imo and I say that in part because Clemson had them beat and we are not a good team in any facet. FSU should have coasted instead it went to OT. Was hoping for improvement as the year went on but things have and are the same or worse. Everyone wants big name assistants but Riley has been a huge disappointment in my opinion. Look no better than last year and honestly it may be worse. I think we have more backs that could help this team but they will never see the field.
What’s this team’s identity on offense because I still don’t know what they are trying to do?
How in the world does a power 5 school like Clemson not have a kicker? Really unbelievable.
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Recruit [94]
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Re: Allow me to vent a little.
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Oct 23, 2023, 9:30 AM
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This team is a continuation of the change in the program that happened in 2020. The inmates now run the asylum. It wouldn’t be so bad if they weren’t so dang soft, especially the OLine. Honestly, they play like a bunch of p-u-s-s-i-e-s.
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Orange Blooded [2753]
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The most important line in that post was . . .
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Oct 23, 2023, 9:37 AM
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"turnovers are the symptom, not the disease."
I agree ten thousand percent.
As an aside, even though I've never posted much in response to you, I really appreciate your demeanor and your love and respect for Clemson even though you're an FSU fan. Cheers to ya and good luck to your Noles the rest of the year.
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All-TigerNet [11658]
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My Take, for what it's worth!!
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Oct 23, 2023, 9:54 AM
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Go watch a replay of the 2019 BC game, and study the differences between the talent level on that team vs this years team! It is glaring, especially at WR, QB, RB, the aggressiveness on Defense, etc... I believe Clemson lost something in coaching and recruiting that has not been made up for yet!! Yes, the loss of BV is a giant part of it!!
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CU Guru [1277]
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Re: Allow me to vent a little.
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Oct 23, 2023, 10:25 AM
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The friends and former player coaching hires has to be it. It's slowly eroded player development past the point of no return. Coach Swinney and the fans have been the frog in the cup of water as the heat's been slowly turned up, and now we're boiled alive. NIL and the portal kicked the decline off the cliff. Can CDS humble himself and return to his early competitive mindset is the question. I think he doubles down on calling out the fans and leaves.
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Legend [18792]
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Spot on.
Oct 23, 2023, 10:31 AM
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There are so many things wrong that it's hard to pinpoint it down to one thing.
TOs don't help but it's not the reason we are this bad, not even close.
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All-TigerNet [10572]
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i hate to beat this dead horse Bret but you too missed the point
Oct 23, 2023, 12:56 PM
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“The philosophy of our program is to serve their heart, not their talent,” he said.
I cant help but think he is 7-0 in that area. Shoot, he even has a Love Shake for those that cross the double line
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All-In [27344]
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Re: Allow me to vent a little.
Oct 23, 2023, 1:05 PM
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welcome to the irrational 1.5%...its an elite club
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Hall of Famer [22362]
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I've read every post in this thread.
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Oct 23, 2023, 1:44 PM
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Thanks.
Bottom line for me:
It doesn't take a sports psychologist to know the team is not playing as well as their talent indicates they should be. "This ain't rocket surgery."
I have no doubt that Dabo and his coaching staff are aware of this fact and know far more than I do what the problem actually is. My concern is will he take the difficult steps (whatever they are) to fix it.
The reason I compared him to Bobby Bowden was late in his career, after the 2000 national championship (win over VT) he lost Mark Richt and a couple of assistants who went with him. He promoted Jeff, his son, to OC. It just never worked out. (Jeff ended up resigning after losing to Wake 30-0 a few years later. And, Bobby tried to talk him out of resigning.)
I'm not saying the problem at Clemson is an incompetent coach or coaches. I have no idea.
I'm just saying that whether you call it "team chemistry" or "players buying in" or "culture" or "everyone on the same page" or "rowing in the same direction" or whatever. Something just seems out of whack.
The solution might be simple. But, it also might be very difficult. Praying that Dabo will accurately diagnose the disease and prescribe the proper medicine.
2024, not to mention the rest of this season, are amazingly important.
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CU Medallion [58427]
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Spot. On.
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Oct 23, 2023, 7:40 PM
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Thank you.
Dabo, to me, looks a little lost; like he's not sure exactly what the problem is, and doesn't know exactly what to do. I guess he's never been in this situation before, where his team is falling so short of expectations. Still, Dabo knows more than I do, or anybody else on this board does, and while I get frustrated like everybody else, I'm still pulling for Dabo and have faith he will get it figured out.
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Starter [372]
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Re: Allow me to vent a little.
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Oct 23, 2023, 2:02 PM
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The team plays very tight, Clemson used to relish end of game pressure, now we sweat it out in fear even with a 10 point lead, same with the FSU game i knew when the strip sack td happend it was over even though it was still tied.
I also don't see the physicality identity that Clemson has been known for the hard hitting, good teams have an identity you can point to , FSU for example has very athletic offensive talent i see there wr's making highlight plays and in there biggest games they have lightning strike offensive drives at the end of the game.
this year clemson is known for throwing games away, fumbling, missing fieldgoals, and in general just bad news bears on offense. that is not an identity you want to be associated with.
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110%er [7166]
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Venables always stressed intensity
Oct 23, 2023, 2:21 PM
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not only for his players but his coaches. If the coaches are relaxed and goofing around at practice then the players will adopt the same mindset. I have a feeling that Wes is just trying to keep up with the 100 mph life of a this defensive coordinator job and hasn't had time to develop who he wants/needs to be as a coach. Just trying to keep his head above water/ as you or I would be if we were thrust for the first time into a role with such magnitude. And as he's been pushed and pulled in million different directions, I think the coaches have probably fallen into this new relaxed atmosphere since Venables left. And now you're seeing the players be a little soft and not intense on the field.
Thats why you may have needed another serious personality as defensive coordinator who would come in a grab this defense by the balls and keep them at a high level.
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110%er [5578]
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Re: Allow me to vent a little.
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Oct 23, 2023, 7:41 PM
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I think we all presumed 2023 to be the very important year for Dabo. If he goes 6-6 in 2024 I think it's safe to say he's not getting fired.
To quote Dabo, "we are who we are". The only question now is whether Dabo has the intestinal fortitude to revamp his staff with elite level assistant coaches and start proactively utilizing the portal, or will he dig in even further? Clemson is in a hole of Dabo's making. The longer he waits to start digging out the harder it will be to get out.
Every single Clemson alum I talked to before the season (all are over 45 yrs old) thought our assistant coaches were the main issue.
In my opinion, Dabo has a few options. 1) Revamp his staff and prioritize the portal. 2) Keep doing the same thing. 3) Retire.
#1 would probably provide a pretty quick road back to the CFP. #2 would probably continue to erode/destroy his legacy at Clemson. #3 Is probably not the cards at the moment.
Things are going to get spicy for Dabo.
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All-In [27374]
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Re: Allow me to vent a little.
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Oct 23, 2023, 9:37 PM
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What you say is true. You will never convince me that Riley is being allowed to do his job. I watched his teams before he came to Clemson and his offense was spectacular. We will never know the truth however. I can see Riley being hired away if he isn’t allowed to do his job his way! I appreciate coach Swinneys devotion to his former players but we all want better results. Losing coach V was the worst thing ever for the Tigers...
Go Tigers
BEAT STATE ITS IMPORTANT TO THOSE OF US WHO CALL NC HOME
what I saw last Saturday will not beat anyne
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110%er [5578]
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Re: Allow me to vent a little.
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Oct 24, 2023, 9:07 AM
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Agreed.
One of the constants under Dabo is his loyalty to assistant coaches who buy into his philosophy. That, and hubris seem to have blinded him. Everyone but Dabo has questioned his hiring of inexperienced and/or unproven assistants. That's not news, and Dabo is convinced that his way works.
Obviously, fans don't know what's going on behind the scenes. We're not at practice and we aren't football coaches. But intelligent fans can watch games, spot patterns, poor play, etc... We recognize when our team full of 4*/5* is getting pushed around by a team with 3* talent.
We see which positions consistently look bad, or mediocre. That is a 100% Dabo-made problem, and only he can fix it.
My question is will he? Lately, he seems to spend a lot of time coddling the psyche of his players and protecting his staff. Hardly the stuff of championship football.
Let's just hope he remembers where he came from. We need that guy back on the sideline.
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110%er [6139]
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26 TUs so far. Guess its ok for an FSU fan to say it.
Oct 23, 2023, 10:25 PM
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Some of us have been saying it for a while but just get grief on here except for few others that saw it too.
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