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Tiger Titan [51051]
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Forest and Trees
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Nov 17, 2025, 12:53 PM
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Read an interesting editorial off of Drudge today, and does a good job setting the context for Trump and MAGA.
It's a short read. Nothing terrible groundbreaking or new, so if you don't read it you're not missing anything that the rest of this post won't convey. But, it does encapsulate the existential crisis within MAGA, and prognosticates (maybe indirectly) how it will end.
https://www.thewrap.com/epstein-emails-conspiracy/
The gist is this. There already was a mountain of evidence around Trump and his relationship with Epstein that would, and should, doom his presidency legally, and certainly doom him as a credible moral figure around a MAGA audience that staked so much of their belief system on the idea that a cabal of elites is beyond the reach of the law. The trove of emails released recently confirm this. The Epstein files, if/when they are released and if/when they aren't scrubbed will remove all doubt.
Except...
If you're of the mindset similar to the elites, which is that all manner of sins are contextualized and explained away to maintain the cohesiveness of the cabal.
And, this is exactly what MAGA is doing, and will do.
They're looking for a tree among the forest. In this case, a literal "crime" against the backdrop of a relationship and broader context that in any other circumstance would be the Rubicon. That broader context being Trump is a wealthy, amoral elite from New York with proven, undeniable ties to the very cabal MAGA specifically [as in Epstein] drew a line in the sand over.
BUT...
The relationship and broader context (forest) simply don't matter if they never see a crime (tree). Because the broader context and relationship with Epstein can all be rationalized away as "Democrats stirring up something," or in the case of Kiwi "photoshop." Manac (sorry brother got to pick on you here) would be washing his hands of anybody or anything else given similar evidence. But he's sticking by Trump to maintain the cohesiveness of the MAGA cabal because the greater good (and personal benefit) of MAGA rule far outweighs a political reality without Trump, and they can assuage their conscience by the idea that Trump hasn't been accused of any specific sex crime (and likely never will).
This is all within the same way that Epstein and his cabal were allowed to operate in the shadows before, during, and after Epstein's convictions.
It's a point lost completely on MAGA though, especially in here. This is peak MAGA hypocrisy; a hyperbolic example come to life. MAGA can deflect any way they want -- Biden didn't do anything; where is the evidence Trump is guilty of a crime; the documents are doctored; etc. But they ignore that by their very own standards, they should be calling for Trump's resignation because if it were anybody else, they would be. So none of the hand waving and deflections really matter without a tree, because they have their eyes closed as they're driving through the forest. They know it. They just don't care.
Gotta protect the cabal. For the greater good.
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Tiger Titan [51051]
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Full disclosure.
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Nov 17, 2025, 12:54 PM
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For the MAGA crowd you're welcome to post a retort but I'm most likely just going to make fun of you and not post a true reply.
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CU Medallion [19043]
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What is the legal doom that you are certain of?***
Nov 17, 2025, 12:55 PM
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Tiger Titan [49170]
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case in point^^^^***
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Nov 17, 2025, 1:08 PM
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Paw Master [16864]
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CU Medallion [19043]
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Ok*
Nov 17, 2025, 1:17 PM
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“There already was a mountain of evidence around Trump and his relationship with Epstein that would, and should, doom his presidency legally”
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Tiger Titan [51051]
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LOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
Nov 17, 2025, 1:26 PM
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Okayjan.png
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Paw Master [16864]
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Re: Ok*
Nov 17, 2025, 1:34 PM
[ in reply to Ok* ] |
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Oculus Spirit [43291]
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Re: Forest and Trees
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Nov 17, 2025, 1:06 PM
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Spot on.
So what if he was best buddies with Jeffrey Epstein and knew he was “stealing” young girls to molest and is actively covering up the files, show us the proof that he actually raped a minor!
It just completely misses the point, I mean just think about that for a second, we’re talking about the President of the United States here. Are there truly no standards anymore? To the MAGA folks credit, the Dems have rolled out Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton in the last 10 years, not exactly paragons of virtue, but I mean… come on.
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Tiger Titan [51051]
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"Are there truly no standards anymore?"
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Nov 17, 2025, 1:14 PM
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Nope. And that's populism in a nutshell. It's not what is principled, and it's about what gets you closest to your goals. Works politically and morally.
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Paw Master [17393]
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I haven't been following it lately, so slaw grades all around, but I'm skeptical
Nov 17, 2025, 2:32 PM
[ in reply to Re: Forest and Trees ] |
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that any of these emails would provide definitive proof that Trump knew crimes were being committed.
I heard this string of logic on the radio this morning and it makes sense.
The Democrats had access to these files during the Biden years. I am highly skeptical that anything that is truly criminal could be attached to Trump because I cannot fathom that they wouldn't have released it during the campaign. They consider Trump evil, and if he provably abused minors, or provably knew about the abusing of minors, then they are right. More is the shame then if that comes out and they DIDN'T release it.
I am more of the opinion that other people important to each side of the aisle are condemned by these files. Which...again...shame to all.
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All-TigerNet [5880]
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So you're going to ignore all the evidence that is out there
Nov 17, 2025, 7:22 PM
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and instead rely on conjecture?
I think this perfectly sums up why the current Republican Party has become such a bastion of misinformation.
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Paw Master [17393]
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Would you be kind and patient enough to walk me through the evidence?***
Nov 18, 2025, 11:54 AM
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All-TigerNet [5880]
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It would be a complete waste of time
Nov 18, 2025, 4:07 PM
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At this point there is all the evidence you need to see Trump was associated with Epstein’s inappropriate behavior.
The only way you can think otherwise is if you’re being intentionally ignorant.
Trump undeniably *associated* with Jeffrey Epstein in the ordinary sense of the word: they knew each other for years, socialized in the same circles, appeared together at events, and Trump himself described Epstein in friendly terms before Epstein’s crimes became notorious. Here’s how you’d build that case, sticking to what’s actually documented.
[" target="_blank" rel="nofollow ugc">https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th/id/OIP.21WlzWdsDZ5p60P7I3LVmQHaFD?pid=Api)](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-seen-surrounded-by-cheerleaders-at-a-1992-party-with-jeffrey-epstein/2019/07/17/539d5550-a89e-11e9-9214-246e594de5d5_story.html?utm_source=chatgpt.com)
---
## 1. Trump’s own words
In 2002, Trump told *New York* magazine (now widely quoted) that he’d known Epstein for a long time and spoke of him approvingly:
> “I’ve known Jeff [Epstein] for 15 years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, **and many of them are on the younger side**.” ([Goodreads][1])
That quote alone establishes:
* Trump knew Epstein personally over many years.
* Trump viewed him as a “terrific guy” and social companion.
* Trump was aware of Epstein’s interest in “younger” women, even if not necessarily illegal conduct.
---
## 2. Socializing together in New York and Palm Beach
Multiple outlets have reconstructed a decades-long social relationship:
* The *Washington Post* and others report that from the late 1980s through early 2000s, Trump and Epstein “swam in the same social pool,” as neighbors and social companions in Palm Beach and New York, partying at Mar-a-Lago and dining at Epstein’s Manhattan townhouse. ([Wikipedia][2])
* A 1992 NBC tape shows Trump hosting a party at Mar-a-Lago where he greets Epstein, chats closely with him, and appears to point out women in the room (“Look at her, back there… She’s hot”), while the two laugh together. ([Spectrum News 13][3])
Those contemporaneous visuals make it hard to argue this was a distant or purely incidental acquaintance.
---
## 3. Parties and events documented on camera
There are multiple photos and videos of Trump and Epstein together:
* 1992 **Mar-a-Lago party**: Trump dancing with women and then talking animatedly with Epstein, aired by NBC and widely reported. ([NBC4 Washington][4])
* 2000 **Mar-a-Lago event**: Photo of Trump with Melania Knauss standing next to Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell at Mar-a-Lago. ([Wikipedia][2])
These images corroborate the narrative of a friendly social association over time, not a one-off encounter.
---
## 4. Flights on Epstein’s plane
Flight logs released in litigation and later by the Justice Department show Trump’s name multiple times:
* Trump appears on Epstein’s private jet flight logs around seven times in the early–mid 1990s, including flights with Marla Maples, their daughter Tiffany, and a nanny. ([Wikipedia][2])
That doesn’t prove wrongdoing, but it *does* show Trump traveled with Epstein, which is a stronger tie than simply being at the same party.
---
## 5. Shared social network and business overlap
Reporting and timelines show that Trump and Epstein:
* Were both prominent figures in the same elite social scene in New York and Palm Beach for roughly two decades. ([Wikipedia][2])
* Were described in some accounts as “constant companions” in the early 1990s, frequently seen together at events, according to later investigative books and interviews.
* Competed for the same luxury Palm Beach property (Maison de l’Amitié) in 2004, suggesting they moved in overlapping business circles as well as social ones.
---
## 6. The later “falling out” narrative
When Epstein was arrested on sex-trafficking charges in 2019, Trump publicly insisted he was “not a fan” and claimed they’d had a falling out 15 or more years earlier. ([NBC4 Washington][4])
But that distancing itself implicitly acknowledges:
* A prior relationship that had been friendly enough to require disavowal.
* Awareness that the association is politically damaging.
Articles that reconstruct their relationship describe this as a friendship that later soured—usually over a Palm Beach real-estate dispute or a conflict involving Mar-a-Lago. ([Wikipedia][2])
---
## 7. Epstein files, emails, and victims’ accounts
Recent document releases and reporting add more smoke (though still not a legal finding of Trump’s guilt in Epstein’s crimes):
* DOJ-released “Epstein files” and flight logs again confirm Trump’s presence in Epstein’s network but, at least so far, haven’t produced a “client list” or direct evidence of criminal conduct by Trump. ([Business Insider][5])
* Emails released by House Democrats indicate Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell discussed Trump in 2011 as “the dog that hasn’t barked,” apparently noting that investigators weren’t publicly talking about him, and allege Trump spent hours with an Epstein victim at his house. Trump has called these emails a “hoax.” ([Vox][6])
* Virginia Giuffre, one of the most prominent victims, has repeatedly stated in sworn testimony and in her memoir that Trump did **not** abuse her, while confirming she met him once at Mar-a-Lago, where her father worked. ([Newsweek][7])
So if you’re “making the case” about *association*, the evidence is substantial. If you’re trying to argue criminal involvement, the publicly available record is much thinner and includes explicit exculpatory statements from one key victim.
---
## 8. How to frame it carefully
If you’re writing this up (say, for a brief, memo, or op-ed), a careful formulation might look like:
* **Strong claim you *can* make**:
> For roughly two decades, Donald Trump maintained a friendly social and business relationship with Jeffrey Epstein—traveling on his private jet, socializing at parties in New York and Palm Beach, and publicly describing Epstein as a “terrific guy” who liked women “on the younger side.” ([Goodreads][1])
* **Important limiting clause** (to avoid overreach / defamation):
> Although Trump is clearly part of Epstein’s social network, no court has found that Trump participated in Epstein’s sex-trafficking crimes, and at least one prominent victim, Virginia Giuffre, has explicitly said he did not abuse her. ([Newsweek][7])
If you tell me the context (legal memo? debate prep? essay?), I can help you turn this into a tight, citation-ready argument tailored to that use.
* [Vox](https://www.vox.com/politics/420340/jeffrey-epstein-trump-friends-birthday-book-secret?utm_source=chatgpt.com)
* [AP News](https://apnews.com/article/70176344eeab6f66e015bc294afbbf59?utm_source=chatgpt.com)
* [The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jul/31/virginia-giuffre-epstein-documents-family?utm_source=chatgpt.com)
* [The Daily Beast](https://www.thedailybeast.com/epstein-victim-virginia-giuffres-family-lash-trump-for-talking-to-ghislaine-maxwell/?utm_source=chatgpt.com)
* [Business Insider](https://www.businessinsider.com/jeffrey-epstein-files-records-trump-admin-keeping-secret-may-release-2025-6?utm_source=chatgpt.com)
[1]: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/10314430-i-ve-known-jeff-epstein-for-15-years-terrific-guy-he-s?utm_source=chatgpt.com "Quote by Donald Trump: “I've known Jeff [Epstein] for 15 ..."
[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relationship_of_Donald_Trump_and_Jeffrey_Epstein?utm_source=chatgpt.com "Relationship of Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein"
[3]: https://mynews13.com/fl/orlando/ap-top-news/2019/07/17/video-shows-trump-epstein-chatting-at-1992-mar-a-lago-party?utm_source=chatgpt.com "Video shows Trump, Epstein chatting at 1992 Mar-a-Lago ..."
[4]: https://www.nbcwashington.com/video/news/national-international/footage-from-1992-shows-trump-epstein-at-party/2122036/?utm_source=chatgpt.com "Footage From 1992 Shows Trump, Epstein at Party"
[5]: https://www.businessinsider.com/jeffrey-epstein-files-records-trump-admin-keeping-secret-may-release-2025-6?utm_source=chatgpt.com "The DOJ says it won't release any more 'Epstein Files.' Here's what the government is still keeping secret."
[6]: https://www.vox.com/politics/420340/jeffrey-epstein-trump-friends-birthday-book-secret?utm_source=chatgpt.com "What we know about Trump's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein"
[7]: https://www.newsweek.com/virginia-giuffre-say-about-donald-trump-11040776?utm_source=chatgpt.com "What Did Virginia Giuffre Say About Donald Trump"
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Paw Master [17393]
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Thanks 09...er...thanks to the AI you used. Curious, are you a trial lawyer?
Nov 18, 2025, 4:59 PM
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And if so, can you imagine the prosecution brought this write-up as evidence that your client either committed a crime or knew that crimes were being committed? What would you say to your client? "Sorry man...you pretty clearly were friends with this guy. Guilt by association." I bet not. I bet you'd be pretty optimistic about his chances in court.
I still say that my money is on OTHER people being on that list that Trump is trying to protect. Heck, maybe even Donald Jr, who knows. It makes sense for the fact that the Democrats didn't use it before he was elected. Of course, Donald Trump is a pig, so it's not like I'd be shocked to find out he'd been involved in this stuff...I just think we would have found out last year.
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All-TigerNet [5880]
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As an attorney, my job is to zealously advocate for my client
Nov 18, 2025, 5:09 PM
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But if you bring that write up to me, I’m going to think my client is a pedophile just like Epstein.
That’s the beauty of this, you don’t have to think someone is a good person just because the justice system protects them. You’re free to form your own opinion without the rules of evidence.
Our legal system operates under the belief it’s better for 99 guilty people to go free than 1 innocent person be convicted.
But you’re still missing the point.
The point is pretend lawyer A handed the jury that ChatGPT write up. Then lawyer B handed the jury your conjecture (that’s void of any facts).
Do you really think the jury should give more credibility to the baseless conjecture than the facts in the ChatGPT write up?
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All-Time Great [94300]
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All-TigerNet [5880]
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Thats really an indictment of Trump
Nov 18, 2025, 5:28 PM
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ChatGPT tends to make up things when it doesn’t have an answer. There is so much publicly available information showing Trump partied with Epstein and is a creep, ChatGPT doesn’t need to hallucinate.
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All-Time Great [94300]
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Were we specifically talking about Trump? You said "your client".***
Nov 18, 2025, 5:30 PM
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Ultimate Tiger [37216]
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All-Time Great [94300]
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Thats a lot of words to say that many are OK with pedophilia, as long as its
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Nov 17, 2025, 1:14 PM
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their favorite game show host/politician doing the kid diddlin'.
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Tiger Titan [49170]
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Re: Thats a lot of words to say that many are OK with pedophilia, as long as its
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Nov 17, 2025, 1:15 PM
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Top TigerNet [32585]
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Paw Master [17532]
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It begs three questions for Trump supporters
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Nov 17, 2025, 1:46 PM
[ in reply to Thats a lot of words to say that many are OK with pedophilia, as long as its ] |
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If Trump is found to have engaged in sexual activity with minors, do you think he should resign?
If Trump knew that Epstein or Epstein’s buds were engaging in sexual activity with minors, but didn’t report this to law enforcement, do you think he should resign?
If the answer is no to either of these questions, why do you take that position?
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Ultimate Tiger [37216]
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Re: It begs three questions for Trump supporters
Nov 18, 2025, 10:44 AM
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Resign? Resign is what a President should do if he's caught ####### a White House intern.
Resign is not the right word for what should happen.
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Clemson Sports Icon [52193]
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I think you also need to address the danger of this to our nation with MAGA
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Nov 17, 2025, 1:25 PM
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If they are willing to excuse all that you listed in your post, then what other atrocities would they excuse with Trump? Murder of citizens? Where's the line? Is there even a line?
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Top TigerNet [32471]
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What are you suggesting be done about it?***
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Nov 17, 2025, 1:44 PM
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Clemson Sports Icon [52193]
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Which part?***
Nov 17, 2025, 1:45 PM
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Top TigerNet [32471]
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Dont play coy now***
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Nov 17, 2025, 1:47 PM
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Clemson Sports Icon [52193]
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Multiple issues are being addressed in this thread. Which part?***
Nov 17, 2025, 1:52 PM
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TigerNet Legend [139880]
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Re: Multiple issues are being addressed in this thread. Which part?***
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Nov 17, 2025, 2:07 PM
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Pick one, quit your obfuscations
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Clemson Sports Icon [52193]
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Hey dumb ###, why don't you tell me which one I'm supposed to address?
Nov 17, 2025, 2:31 PM
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He's the one who asked "what are you suggesting be done about it?"
Why is it hard for you imbeciles to be specific?
Go post another giant failure in the Lunge again where you mock an air traffic controller family and their financial flight. You got absolutely wrecked in that. One of the worst ### kickings I've ever witnessed here.
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Tiger Titan [51051]
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If there is an impeachable offense, let that be done.
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Nov 17, 2025, 1:59 PM
[ in reply to What are you suggesting be done about it?*** ] |
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That would take some backbone from the GOP, which just isn't happening.
Otherwise, Congress needs to usurp the power stolen from it by the White House. Except that not only does this run into the issue like the above, we're asking a morally/politically bankrupt Congress to reverse a general, decades-long trend. So, that too, isn't likely.
I'm mostly in the John Roberts ACA boat, when he said it's not SCOTUS' job to protect the nation from bad but legal legislation. Trump won the election fair and square, and we're going to pay for it until his term is done.
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Clemson Sports Icon [52193]
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Re: If there is an impeachable offense, let that be done.
Nov 17, 2025, 2:33 PM
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Otherwise, Congress needs to usurp the power stolen from it by the White House. Except that not only does this run into the issue like the above, we're asking a morally/politically bankrupt Congress to reverse a general, decades-long trend. So, that too, isn't likely.
Couple with completely partisan team politics on both sides in a narrow Congressional majority each time, and it will be near impossible to remove a criminal president from office. And people like Trump know it.
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Tiger Titan [51051]
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Plus, above anything else, Congress likes this format.
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Nov 17, 2025, 2:40 PM
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They don't have to do anything except pass big "emergency" bills. The gridlock that comes from not wanting to expend the effort at reaching real compromise gets projected back onto the President. All the while they can pretend for the folks back home they're a principled warrior unwilling to bend on the issues that really matter. And, the policy they actually want can come from Executive fiat with no work, and no risk.
It's peak laziness, of which they are richly rewarded.
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CU Medallion [19551]
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SCOTUS also made it harder to hold Presidents accountable
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Nov 17, 2025, 4:24 PM
[ in reply to If there is an impeachable offense, let that be done. ] |
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and opened the door for Presidents like Trump to extend their powers and actions. They are not without tremendous blame for where we are now and where we (I fear) will be going in the future. They may not have wanted to put their thumb on the scales regarding healthcare, but they sure seem to have changed their tune when it comes to Trump.
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TigerNet Elite [74793]
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Cats has become on par with Thomas Crooks
Nov 17, 2025, 8:02 PM
[ in reply to What are you suggesting be done about it?*** ] |
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and Charlie Kirk assassin. He wants MAGA people dead. He insinuates all the time. Especially with law enforcement.
Sickening and it’s how the left reacts to President Trump and his supporters. Violence.
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Rival Killer [2863]
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January 6th and the Dems that were shot in Minnesota
Nov 18, 2025, 7:37 AM
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say hello.
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Clemson Sports Icon [52193]
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LOL, the big puss just making stuff up now.
Nov 18, 2025, 7:59 AM
[ in reply to Cats has become on par with Thomas Crooks ] |
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YOU are the one who cheered on Jan. 6 in real time on this board and wanted politicians executed.
I've never said I want anyone dead nor have I insinuated it, especially with law enforcement. You're a big baby. I want ICE agents imprisoned (and they will be).
But since you're one of this site's biggest pu$$ies (both on this board and off), I'll make this bet with you. Let's bet $1,000 that you can't find a single post where I said I wanted someone from law enforcement killed.
I'll keep reminding you and tagging you about it because I know you're going to run away.
Let's go, tigermanac®. Prove your claim.
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Ultimate Tiger [37216]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
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Joined: 2014
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Re: Cats has become on par with Thomas Crooks
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Nov 18, 2025, 11:08 AM
[ in reply to Cats has become on par with Thomas Crooks ] |
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When the President has threatened cities with war and has sent his Secret Police and military into US cities, who have attacked US citizens, how do you expect people to react?
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Tiger Titan [51051]
TigerPulse: 100%
58
Posts: 25075
Joined: 2022
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Bro they're just enforcing the law.
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Nov 18, 2025, 11:14 AM
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Sometimes you have to upset the rule of law to enforce the rule of law. Plus if these guys actually did anything wrong, indigent citizens have ample means to sue the DOJ. And if they don't maybe they should consider not being poor.
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Clemson Sports Icon [52193]
TigerPulse: 100%
59
Posts: 46344
Joined: 1998
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Re: Cats has become on par with Thomas Crooks
Nov 18, 2025, 11:47 AM
[ in reply to Re: Cats has become on par with Thomas Crooks ] |
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Aside from Manac's lies that I've called for such violence, he's also someone who supports these authoritarian overreaches of power; in his small mind, he likes seeing innocent people harmed and their rights violated. He stupidly claims only criminals are targeted. So yeah, to your point, when we have people like him advocating such abused against the populous and it continues, why would anyone be shocked when the people rise up and finally say enough?
Manac would be a traitor British Tory back in the day.
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Ultimate Tiger [37216]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 18957
Joined: 2014
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All-Time Great [91541]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2012
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Re: Forest and Trees
6
6
Nov 17, 2025, 2:13 PM
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Orange Blooded [2139]
TigerPulse: 89%
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I'm fine w/ ya Mama or your old lady doing it...
Nov 17, 2025, 9:21 PM
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Both are pros...5 stars strongly recommend
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Orange Blooded [2139]
TigerPulse: 89%
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Delusional fantasy land talk...
Nov 17, 2025, 9:14 PM
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but it's not your fault..as a verified msm-addicted parrot>you're jus waiting for the next fabrication to echo~
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Tiger Titan [51051]
TigerPulse: 100%
58
Posts: 25075
Joined: 2022
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Stick the wrestling ring, GB.
Nov 17, 2025, 9:18 PM
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You sound like Ricky outside of it.
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Clemson Sports Icon [52193]
TigerPulse: 100%
59
Posts: 46344
Joined: 1998
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Paw Master [16864]
TigerPulse: 100%
51
Posts: 10597
Joined: 2009
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Tiger Titan [51051]
TigerPulse: 100%
58
Posts: 25075
Joined: 2022
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Re: PartsUntouched, the leader of the incels weighs in with another nonsensical post***
Nov 18, 2025, 10:03 AM
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Orange Blooded [2139]
TigerPulse: 89%
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Pleasure triggering the mentally ill..
Nov 18, 2025, 11:48 AM
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¡TRUMP is Whatchin!
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Tiger Titan [51051]
TigerPulse: 100%
58
Posts: 25075
Joined: 2022
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Says the guy in a leotard.***
Nov 18, 2025, 11:49 AM
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