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All-In [49611]
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If you only listen to one podcast about smart phones/social media and kids...
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Jun 13, 2024, 1:58 PM
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make it the Huberman Lab episode with Jonathan Haidt. He says no smart phone til high school, no social media til 16, smart phones should be banned from the classroom and kids should be forced to return to a free range, play-based childhood.
pull quote - "Imagine dropping your kids off at a Casino for 8 hours a day unsupervised if they are a girl or at a brothel if they are a boy."
i.e. The stimulus reward of social media for girls is the same as for the slot machines in Vegas. And well, boys like ####.
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All-In [47825]
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On the one hand, I completely agree with you. On the other hand my daughter
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Jun 13, 2024, 2:02 PM
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is now starting to have sleep overs and I would like for her to have a way to contact us no matter what.
So the plan is this year (10 years old) setting up wife's old phone for her and paying for the Bark app.
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All-In [49611]
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His thing with that is get her a flip phone...***
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Jun 13, 2024, 2:02 PM
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All-In [47825]
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What's his stance on tablets and tv's?
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Jun 13, 2024, 2:05 PM
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One thing I will say about this day and age, parents who actually give a #### know the apps etc that allow them to monitor everything that happens on that child's phone. We can be like the NSA.
Thank god that wasn't the case when I was in college.
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All-In [47825]
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There's a major shift I've noticed recently in culture.
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Jun 13, 2024, 2:09 PM
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Any my age group is in the middle of it. On one hand we miss the old days when we use to roam miles from home each day in the summer. But we also know that those days are no longer feasible.
We miss the days when nobody had phones and believe phones are detrimental to self esteem etc. But we also know the apps and programs we need to ensure most (because we can't stop everything) doesn't get to our kids.
I see it a lot with cellphones in schools. Some parents are 100% against cell phones in schools and will back you up. However, there are WAY more parents I've seen that will tell you: "That's my property, you will NOT confiscate it" and "I need to know where and what's going on with my kid at all times and if I want to call/text him/her I will"
I also see it a lot with hats in buildings. Had an argument with a dude the other day. He said "it's disrespectful to wear a hat in a building." My response was "disrespectful to who?"
There's a real current of change in society especially since COVID. Unfortunately a lot of that is these podcaster/tik tokers "my way is right and everybody else is wrong and while you're at it, download this app that will solve all of these issues and I'm definitely not getting paid to drive you towards"
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All-In [47825]
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But then again how much of that is really different than our parents lamenting
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Jun 13, 2024, 2:10 PM
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against watching TV, the radio, and microwaves that were going to rot our minds and cause our generation to be degenerates?
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All-In [49611]
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Why isn't it feasible?
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Jun 13, 2024, 2:22 PM
[ in reply to There's a major shift I've noticed recently in culture. ] |
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One of Haidt's points was that only 150-200 kids get kidnapped by strangers every year. Which is less than how many people get struck by lightning. He also said the rise in teen suicides since the 90's more than offsets the kidnapping numbers. And since 2010 when the smart phone hit, he says the graph takes an upward turn like a hockey stick. And that by limiting your kids outdoor play to being supervised by you and other parents, they never learn group conflict resolution skills.
Since he says play based childhood started dying out in the 90's when America's Most Wanted was scaring the #### out of moms everywhere, it kind of makes sense why we have so many American's (and Britons, and Germans, and others) who suck at compromise and resolving conflicts diplomatically.
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All-In [47825]
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I don't know the data and I can definitely say that makes sense
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Jun 13, 2024, 2:26 PM
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and there are many dynamics at work here. For example, how much of the increase in kidnapping data is because of more awareness of that. Back in the 70s when serial killers had their heyday it was just thought these kids ran away.
I was 2 miles from my house when a cop stopped me and my buddies crossing a road when I was 10. He asked where we lived and what were we doing. We answered. He giggled and said have fun.
If my 10 year old daughter was 2 miles from my house at 10 years old, how fast would I be in jail? I let my kids play in the yard unobserved (for the most part) but they have to play in the back yard and are not allowed to leave the yard without clearing it by me first.
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All-In [49611]
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I think he said like 15 states have enacted laws
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Jun 13, 2024, 2:32 PM
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preventing CPS from taking action for parents letting their kids play like kids were built to play. And for what it's worth, I've got a buddy who will probably defend you for free if you ever get charged for child neglect for letting your child have an appropriately developmental childhood.
The statistics on child kidnapping haven't changed much over the years, but a lot less of us killed ourselves in the 70's and 80's.
For what it's worth, Haidt said he thinks once the current smart phone impact studies become public, the public perception of cell phones will go like the public perception of cigarettes.
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Oculus Spirit [83395]
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I said years ago that cell phones wouldn't be near as popular if everyone had
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Jun 13, 2024, 2:35 PM
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to have them for work...and got called at any hour of the day and had to answer it.
Maybe y'all should make your kids get jobs where they are on call 24x7x365.
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All-In [47825]
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All-In [47825]
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My point in all of my posts is it is 1. a necessary evil, but also can be
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Jun 13, 2024, 2:37 PM
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limited and 2. there is a happy medium for playing outside and digital media.
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Oculus Spirit [83395]
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I don't recall a time in all my years iof schooling that I had to have a phone
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Jun 13, 2024, 2:40 PM
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to call my parents for an emergency. If there was a time, I guess I figured it out and everyone just moved on with their life.
Point here is the "need a cell phone for emergencies" sounds like an invented reason to me.
I forgot to take mine with me one day (for 2 days) a few weeks ago, when I finally remembered I forgot it, It was like "wow, I've had almost two days off and didn't even realize it".
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All-In [47825]
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These parents are just as addicted to their phones as their kids***
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Jun 13, 2024, 2:41 PM
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Oculus Spirit [79970]
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You ever been with a group of people, and there's 1 or 2 couples who will
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Jun 13, 2024, 2:51 PM
[ in reply to I don't recall a time in all my years iof schooling that I had to have a phone ] |
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get downright pissed if not everybody wants to do what they want to do? Like it's not OK for some people to go to the restaurant across the street, everyone MUST go to one particular one and they want to get like a 25 person table to accommodate. Then they complain about service.( I recently experienced this phenomenon so it's fresh)
Anyway, those are the same people who require their kids to have a cell phone with them 24/7 "in case of an emergency". They're your run of the mill busy bodies but it seems like they've been put on steroids lately. I feel like in the 90's people would tell them to get fugged so it was a self correcting problem, now nobody has the balls to say anything cause the busy body will start crying and say they have autism or some sheet. Nobody wants to be the person to make the crazy person cry.
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Oculus Spirit [83395]
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I "missed out" on a few in the keys this week.
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Jun 13, 2024, 3:32 PM
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I love those folks to death, but I can't hang out with them that long. AND..it's been raining all day, every day down there. That's a house full of people...on vaca. I couldn't stay drunk that long.
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Oculus Spirit [79970]
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I think we underestimate the impact of mentally ill people raising kids
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Jun 13, 2024, 2:40 PM
[ in reply to I don't know the data and I can definitely say that makes sense ] |
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They either can't be bothered to parent at all, or they're such tyrants their kid has no freedom and every second of their schedule is planned out. The funny part about it is they aren't tyrants in areas where they should be, they'll try to 'gentle parent' their way out of their kid having a screaming meltdown in a restaurant, but activities for the next 3 weeks are planned out to the minute and God help anyone who suggests deviating from the schedule.
Which kind of goes back to the free range childhood, I think the structure of our schools has broken many people and they don't have the ability to be flexible anymore. Of course, how can a kid have a 'free range' childhood when they are dropped off at daycare at 7am and picked up at 5-6pm, then they have to go to bed ASAP so they can get up tomorrow and do it all over again.
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All-In [47825]
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100% agree.
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Jun 13, 2024, 2:43 PM
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I believe we are going to find that one problem these kids will not be able to master is sequential thinking.
I have to get me, my buddies, and these bb guns over this huge ditch. What steps can I take to do this.
Can't google #### like that.
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Oculus Spirit [79970]
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I think we're already seeing that now
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Jun 13, 2024, 2:58 PM
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It doesn't help that now everyone seeks advise from "experts" for even the most mundane things. Little Timmy sees mama furiously googling what to do after he falls off his bike, and he'll mimic that behavior. He also sees her be condescending towards anyone who offers common sense solutions, "you're not an expert, how do you know!!!".
So in your bb gun scenario, they will want to seek out advice from professional mountain climbers before making any sort of move one way or another.
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All-In [47825]
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As I have to tell my wife all the time:
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Jun 13, 2024, 3:04 PM
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-Don't get your medical advice from tik tok
-Don't get your personality advice from Facebook
-And don't get your self esteem from instagram
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All-In [49611]
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It's worse than that...
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Jun 13, 2024, 3:24 PM
[ in reply to I think we're already seeing that now ] |
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never having had the opportunity to work anything out on their own or in cooperation with their peers, due to some hovering parent dictating the outcome of every scenario in which conflict or difficulty arises, they will either cry and give up or go find a parent to tell them how to do it, which will result in losing said bb gun, the freedom to cross the creek and probably get them sent to their room to play on their iPad.
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110%er [7259]
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Re: Why isn't it feasible?
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Jun 13, 2024, 3:01 PM
[ in reply to Why isn't it feasible? ] |
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Add fat to your list of detriments.
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All-In [49611]
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As long there is no social media...
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Jun 13, 2024, 2:09 PM
[ in reply to What's his stance on tablets and tv's? ] |
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and the tablet is not taking the place of unstructured outdoor play, he's okay with Tablets.
However Huberman cited a study that kids who primarily watch TV on a tablet can develop myopia.
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All-In [47825]
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Oh I agree. Play time, recess, etc is way better for kids.
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Jun 13, 2024, 2:13 PM
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But I don't think it's black and white. There are great things about both and it's about finding a happy medium.
One thing I'm getting really tired of personally is the "this or that" in society and a lot less "both"
Once again something you see a lot in self help books, podcasts, and tik tok/instagram/influencer stuff.
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All-In [47825]
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Not to make this a political post, but my family has recently learned of my
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Jun 13, 2024, 2:17 PM
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hatred of Trump. Of course the immediate response is that I must automatically love Biden and everything he does. They still haven't wrapped their minds around you can hate both.
When I said "if both died tomorrow this country would be better with the exception of Kamala being president" you could see the steam coming from their ears it messed their mindset up so bad.
But the purpose of this example is that people get so ingrained in black or white when most everything in life is gray.
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All-In [49611]
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He referenced some studies about how formative the early teen years are...
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Jun 13, 2024, 2:08 PM
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German family emigrates to the US with a 12 and 14 year old. 14 year old still has his german accent at 30, the 12 year old speaks perfect english and sounds like he's from the neighborhood they moved to.
if you bring a kid here from a foreign country (say Japan) at 10 and the stay til 14, they have a hard time fitting in when they move back to Japan. 8-12 still feel like they are Japanese, over 14 they were already Japanese through and through. And Huberman piped in that tracks with horomonal development, as kids in puberty age and change more quickly than at almost any other time in their lives.
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All-In [47825]
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Sorry I kind of tiggitied this thread***
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Jun 13, 2024, 2:14 PM
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Hall of Famer [21958]
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Try again... but this time, insted of tiggitying this thread, try
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Jun 13, 2024, 2:27 PM
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tittying this thread. Thanks.
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Heisman Winner [137988]
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All I can say about smart phones/social media and kids...
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Jun 13, 2024, 2:23 PM
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is that they don't have that issue in African nations that FIELD large armies of child soldiers.
THE DATA DOESN'T LIE.
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110%er [7511]
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I really like Haidt and his recent book sounds fascinating.
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Jun 13, 2024, 2:34 PM
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As someone with young kids, I think about this alot. Thanks for sharing.
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Orange Blooded [4822]
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I feel strongly that my job as a parent is to prepare my children to be
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Jun 13, 2024, 3:25 PM
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independent, functioning members of society. If I'm banning them from using things everyone else has, it only makes those things more appealing. My own parents were pretty strict about everything, and that didn't prevent me from doing any of the things they were trying to keep me away from..half the time right under their nose.
I've taken the everything in moderation, if I have to moderate you it isn't going to be fun for you. As long as they are thriving in school, friendships, and have other interests (sports, hobbies) I do not micromanage them. Obviously they know that I can look at their devices at any time and a lot of times seeing what they and their friends are looking at/talking about on social media starts some good conversations. My 4th grader has no social media/tik tok but can message friends and family members with permission and watch youtube. My 8th grader has free but monitored access.
Also, they will do almost anything to get their phone back so it is an excellent first line of punishment.
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All-In [47825]
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My kids are allowed to watch youtube despite my parent's chagrin
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Jun 13, 2024, 3:35 PM
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but the rule is, if they cuss you have to turn it.
It makes me feel good when I hear a cuss word on a youtube and my kids automatically change it even though they have no idea I heard it.
Also, if I win the lottery, I'm quitting my job and my sole goal in life is reporting all of these youtube influencers who make videos for kids and cuss in them until they no longer have a revenue stream.
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Orange Blooded [4822]
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I don't care if they hear a cuss word, now if they USE one that's a whole
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Jun 13, 2024, 3:49 PM
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different story.
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