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Replies: 70
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All-In [34119]
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Hall of Famer [24250]
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Re: Noncompetes are no longer allowed
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Apr 23, 2024, 4:05 PM
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More government telling people what to do.
If you don't want to be in a noncompete agreement, don't get into a noncompete agreement.
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All-In [43938]
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Uhh. I think this is gov't telling companies what they CAN'T do.
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Apr 23, 2024, 4:10 PM
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And "if you don't want to get into a noncompete then don't do it" isn't quite as simple as it may appear on the surface. They are very much standard in many industries, and like "just leave the industry" ain't going to cut it for established folks deep into their careers without coming with substantial loss of income.
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Hall of Famer [24250]
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Re: Uhh. I think this is gov't telling companies what they CAN'T do.
Apr 23, 2024, 4:15 PM
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No one is forcing anyone into a non compete. Just like no one forced anyone into a student loan. I have a non compete. No one forced me into it.
Let adults be adults.
Message was edited by: p6fuller®
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All-In [31558]
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Re: Uhh. I think this is gov't telling companies what they CAN'T do.
Apr 23, 2024, 5:42 PM
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I’ve never heard of any doctor at any hospital not having a noncompete with stiff penalties built into their contract.
Are you forced into signing it? Well, no, unless you want to work.
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Hall of Famer [24250]
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Re: Uhh. I think this is gov't telling companies what they CAN'T do.
Apr 23, 2024, 5:45 PM
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Then you have options
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All-In [31558]
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Re: Uhh. I think this is gov't telling companies what they CAN'T do.
Apr 23, 2024, 5:46 PM
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The option to not work?
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Hall of Famer [24250]
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Re: Uhh. I think this is gov't telling companies what they CAN'T do.
Apr 23, 2024, 5:47 PM
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Yes - or do something else. Generally, higher paying gigs have some strings attached.
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All-In [31558]
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Re: Uhh. I think this is gov't telling companies what they CAN'T do.
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Apr 23, 2024, 5:53 PM
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Working in a different field isn’t really an option for someone who spends 14 years post high school to learn a skill and has to borrow a quarter millions dollars for the privilege of doing so.
I mean maybe you’re right, all I know is the industry I’m in, and noncompetes give the suits that don’t generate a dime even more leverage and power over us little worker bees. It wouldn’t break my heart for them to go away, would make it easier to renegotiate or leave for a raise, among numerous other advantages I could imagine.
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Hall of Famer [24250]
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Re: Uhh. I think this is gov't telling companies what they CAN'T do.
Apr 23, 2024, 5:58 PM
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You gotta pretty nice pool for a little ol worker bee 
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All-In [31558]
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I work my butt off for it too.
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Apr 23, 2024, 6:04 PM
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I get paid 2% of what the hospital collects for my work
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Hall of Famer [24250]
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Re: I work my butt off for it too.
Apr 23, 2024, 6:14 PM
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I have no doubt that you do. I'm sure you deserve everything you've earned.
I wish I got paid 2 percent of what my firm collects.
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Hall of Famer [24250]
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Re: I work my butt off for it too.
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Apr 23, 2024, 6:23 PM
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I just re-read that. Yeah, 2 percent seems low (but I have no idea what is normal in your profession).
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All-In [40951]
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You only get 2% of your billing rate?
Apr 23, 2024, 7:22 PM
[ in reply to I work my butt off for it too. ] |
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Dang that is low. I could not imagine having 50:1 billing rate. I am about 2.5:1 with my employees.
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Hall of Famer [24849]
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Socialized for a 'select' few....***
Apr 23, 2024, 8:28 PM
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CU Guru [1073]
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Re: Uhh. I think this is gov't telling companies what they CAN'T do.
Apr 24, 2024, 2:04 PM
[ in reply to Re: Uhh. I think this is gov't telling companies what they CAN'T do. ] |
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Working in a different field isn’t really an option for someone who spends 14 years post high school to learn a skill and has to borrow a quarter millions dollars for the privilege of doing so.
I mean maybe you’re right, all I know is the industry I’m in, and noncompetes give the suits that don’t generate a dime even more leverage and power over us little worker bees. It wouldn’t break my heart for them to go away, would make it easier to renegotiate or leave for a raise, among numerous other advantages I could imagine.
Little worker bees? Your a medical doctor and your pay probably puts you in the top 1%
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All-In [31558]
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And?***
Apr 24, 2024, 2:20 PM
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CU Guru [1073]
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Re: And?***
Apr 24, 2024, 3:13 PM
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A 1% complaining about being a worker bee, should we get the violins out?
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Hall of Famer [24250]
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Re: Uhh. I think this is gov't telling companies what they CAN'T do.
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Apr 23, 2024, 5:55 PM
[ in reply to Re: Uhh. I think this is gov't telling companies what they CAN'T do. ] |
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Have not read the reg closely, but I could be on board with limiting stipulations (length of time, max penalties, etc). But they certainly shouldn't just nullify contracts that are currently in place, and that looks like part of it.
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All-In [40951]
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It sucks to spend the time and money to train someone then
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Apr 23, 2024, 7:24 PM
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have them quit and try to take your clients with them out the door.
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Oculus Spirit [81247]
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If you let it get to that point, that's your fault***
Apr 24, 2024, 11:27 AM
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Oculus Spirit [97826]
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Hall of Famer [24849]
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110%er [7004]
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Oculus Spirit [81247]
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Hall of Famer [24250]
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Re: Sometimes they do.
Apr 24, 2024, 12:30 PM
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You had a choice. You chose the non compete
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Oculus Spirit [81247]
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What did you think about the vaccine mandates?***
Apr 24, 2024, 2:12 PM
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Hall of Famer [24250]
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Re: What did you think about the vaccine mandates?***
Apr 24, 2024, 2:30 PM
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I don't recall signing a contract with my employer stating that I agreed to o take a vaccine. I did sign a contract with my employer regarding actions with its competitors, and I will abide by it regardless of government edict.
Message was edited by: p6fuller®
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Oculus Spirit [81247]
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I never signed chit
Apr 24, 2024, 3:00 PM
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They just came in one day and said "yeah, your agreement just changed".
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CU Medallion [60091]
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I was under one for 9 years.
Apr 24, 2024, 12:46 PM
[ in reply to Uhh. I think this is gov't telling companies what they CAN'T do. ] |
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I didn’t even think about the offers I got. I stuck it out and asked for larger bonuses. They obliged. Cause miraculously, I did good work.
It’s not hard to be a decent person and follow your commitments. Especially if you are willing to work hard and put in the time.
Looking at you Ineligible user
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Oculus Spirit [81247]
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I udnnni wht you are looking at me
Apr 24, 2024, 2:13 PM
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If I want to take a better job somewhere else, I shouldn't be hindered from doing so because my boss is butthurt about me leaving.
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Orange Blooded [3734]
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Some industries ONLY hire with them
Apr 23, 2024, 4:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: Noncompetes are no longer allowed ] |
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Should the government act then?
Hated that I had one in the TV industry, but we all did. Always felt like I could win a lawsuit against it, though since FL is such a strong right to work state.
Never affected me though, formed my own company when I left
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Oculus Spirit [81247]
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right to work has nothing to do with a non compete.
Apr 24, 2024, 11:28 AM
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Right to work is about union participation.
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Standout [318]
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Hall of Famer [24849]
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Can we sue banks for various discriminations in lending practices...?***
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Apr 23, 2024, 4:09 PM
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Heisman Winner [111935]
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would pave the way for me to become
Apr 23, 2024, 4:10 PM
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fully self-employed.
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Hall of Famer [24849]
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Backstabbing isn't a good look... ;~)***
Apr 23, 2024, 6:02 PM
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All-In [34119]
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P.S. It takes effect in 120 days. And...
Apr 23, 2024, 4:33 PM
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I only noticed one significant exception so far, which is a noncompete in connection with the sale of a business. Makes sense to me that you could need a noncompete for the seller to make the sale worthwhile.
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Hall of Famer [24250]
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Re: P.S. It takes effect in 120 days. And...
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Apr 23, 2024, 4:51 PM
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This seems like a good way for someone to come work for you and then start their own business and poach a portion of your clients.
Message was edited by: p6fuller®
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Hall of Famer [24849]
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Uh huh.***
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Apr 23, 2024, 6:03 PM
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Hall of Famer [24250]
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Re: Uh huh.***
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Apr 23, 2024, 6:31 PM
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If it's just being able to go work for a competitor, then that's one thing. My concern would be for people who spent half their life trying to build a business (of whatever kind) and having no way to stop a former employee (who the business may have invested a lot in) from taking employees and clients.
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Hall of Famer [24849]
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Been there... Gave them a job, then got 'socialized on the sly'. Backstabbed.
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Apr 23, 2024, 6:38 PM
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I'm basically retired now so I don't have a dog in the fight any longer.
My situations never involved legal papers anyway. Still, I could see where certain businesses could be dramatically affected.
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Oculus Spirit [81247]
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I can't imagine why someone would want to do that to you.
Apr 24, 2024, 11:29 AM
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Unimaginable.
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Hall of Famer [24849]
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I never once had a dispute regarding payments to employees or subs...
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Apr 24, 2024, 5:19 PM
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There were times I had to float some payments to supply houses, but NEVER the workers in 35 years.
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All-In [34119]
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There are other protections still in place.
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Apr 24, 2024, 9:36 AM
[ in reply to Re: P.S. It takes effect in 120 days. And... ] |
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Customer lists are trade secrets and are still protected. I don't know if the new law has any effect on non-solicits--another way to prevent poaching.
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110%er [7231]
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Market competition is good.
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Apr 23, 2024, 4:35 PM
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And people should be free to sell their labor to whoever they want. As long as NDAs or something else cover trade secrets, this is a slam dunk.
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Hall of Famer [24250]
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Re: Market competition is good.
Apr 23, 2024, 4:52 PM
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People are already free to do that.
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Heisman Winner [111935]
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Re: Market competition is good.
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Apr 23, 2024, 5:47 PM
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under certain NDAs, You can be legally barred from working for a competitor or even yourself if you poach clients.
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All-TigerNet [13186]
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They cite NDAs as an alternative. LOL. No one honors those anymore.***
Apr 23, 2024, 4:49 PM
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All-In [42298]
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Transfer portal is open!***
Apr 23, 2024, 5:21 PM
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Hall of Famer [24250]
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Re: Transfer portal is open!***
Apr 23, 2024, 5:28 PM
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No doubt. I'm sure the lower class will have no problem dishonoring agreements.
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110%er [7231]
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That pesky lower class always ruining things.***
Apr 23, 2024, 6:42 PM
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Hall of Famer [24250]
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Re: That pesky lower class always ruining things.***
Apr 23, 2024, 7:05 PM
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Yep. And, it has nothing to do with money.
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All-TigerNet [10939]
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They aren't really enforced anyway.
Apr 23, 2024, 8:08 PM
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It's rare that a company would go to the trouble to actually take someone to court over these. They have to be really integral to the technology stack of the company for the judge to even hear the case. Your run of the mill developer or sales guy or marketing girl doesn't ever get pursued for violating these.
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Oculus Spirit [81247]
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My company did that to someone recently.
Apr 24, 2024, 11:31 AM
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They knew they wouldn't win, they just wanted to hassle him. And they did.
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All-In [27232]
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The good that this does, especially in the medical field, makes it really hard
Apr 23, 2024, 9:59 PM
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to stand on principle against it.
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Hall of Famer [24250]
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Re: The good that this does, especially in the medical field, makes it really hard
Apr 24, 2024, 7:27 AM
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I'm starting to rethink this. It will be a test of name.
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Hall of Famer [20002]
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Pre-nups will be next***
Apr 23, 2024, 10:06 PM
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Heisman Winner [111935]
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Re: Pre-nups will be next***
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Apr 23, 2024, 10:17 PM
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Hall of Famer [24849]
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That was good.***
Apr 24, 2024, 3:37 PM
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Oculus Spirit [81247]
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depending on the state, pre-nups have always been iffy.
Apr 24, 2024, 11:32 AM
[ in reply to Pre-nups will be next*** ] |
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My understanding is that in SC they don't mean much.
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All-In [27232]
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Hall of Famer [24250]
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Re: Noncompetes are no longer allowed
Apr 24, 2024, 11:34 AM
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I agree with the Chamber here. I think the Federal Government should stay out of this. I think this is an Executive overstep. I might be able to get on board with limitations for future contracts but not nullifying current contracts.
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All-In [27232]
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I believe I fall in that camp as well.
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Apr 24, 2024, 12:50 PM
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As good as the FTC decision may be, such a significant decision rises to the level of needing to be legislative. According to the ex-wife, who does anti-trust work, this is the biggest FTC action under its "unfair methods of competition authority" in a century. That would lend itself to the Chamber's argument.
This would trend very close to why 2A activists are (or should have been) so hard on Trump for banning bump stocks via the ATF. Bump stocks are stupid and I see no good reason why they should be allowed to exist as a clear end run around the NFA, but because it was a clear 2A issue, Trump should have worked through Congress.
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All-TigerNet [10939]
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Hall of Famer [24849]
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The Chamber of Crony Capitalism... You have to 'buy' in.***
Apr 24, 2024, 5:24 PM
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110%er [7035]
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They were never really enforceable to begin with.
Apr 24, 2024, 2:14 PM
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Basically because you can't take away someone's ability to make a living. I've never seen one hold up in court at least in my little world.
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Oculus Spirit [81247]
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The company suing you has to prove damages.
Apr 24, 2024, 3:10 PM
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And that's hard to do. That prob relates to sales and taking customers and their business more than anything else.
I've had one former employer attempt "enforcement" with me, and I told my boss and his lawyer to get fscked because I was young and literally didn't have anything, and also that you can't keep someone from working. I guess teh lawyer told my old boss to drop it because i never heard from them again. I did however trade punches in a bar with that #######, so maybe that's why the lawyer told him to drop it. Capt. Harry's Blue Marlin Bar--the only bar I've ever been kicked out of because of my ex boss.
I've seen my company try and enforce a noncompete literally just to harass the guy because he quit and they didn't want him to leave. I wish he would have recorded this, but he asked our HR woman what they wanted from him after they wouldn't drop it, and she said "We want you to never work again".
Personal vendettas that are trying to be held up with a BS non-compete don't stand up very well in court.
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All-In [27232]
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I had a previous company sniff around about a non-compete.
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Apr 24, 2024, 3:58 PM
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It was purely because my former boss was being a petty little bish because I wouldn't move back and be his friend. They dropped it after I told the attorney my work for the customer had nothing to do with what I did at the company, and I think the attorney knew the motivations were already sus.
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All-In [34119]
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They were very enforceable.
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Apr 24, 2024, 4:56 PM
[ in reply to They were never really enforceable to begin with. ] |
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I can pull a bunch of cases from Lexis if anyone is interested in what they look like.
Short version is that the court would consider whether the geographic and temporal scopes of the noncompete were reasonable, and whether the company had a legitimate business interest to protect. Sometimes the court would "blue pencil" (edit) the noncompete to render the scope more reasonable, but they were frequently enforced.
Oftentimes the lawsuit would focus on obtaining an injunction against the former employee, rather than money damages.
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110%er [5705]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 12194
Joined: 9/28/08
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Re: Noncompetes are no longer allowed
Apr 24, 2024, 2:32 PM
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Yeah I was going to say what ShawnC said.
In my experience, people that had them either felt like the other party would not take them to court and did what they wanted or were scared to death to do something, did it anyway, and the other party did nothing.
So, while I like the gubment staying out of 99% of everything, this seems like it does not have broad consequences.
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