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All-TigerNet [12311]
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What has happened to Pinehurst #2? It used to be one of the most beautiful
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Jun 17, 2024, 1:23 PM
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courses played. Yesterday, it looked like any Eastern, NC small town country club built on a sandhill.
I saw where you can play there...Green Fees are $352...BUT you have to stay there two nights and buy meals, etc, so it ends up costing you $3600-5400...without a caddy and tips. That's Francis Marion® and Spud money right there!
The audio for the broadcast was horrible the way it picked up on planes, blimps, and/or drones. I turned "off" the volume and put on the close captions.
And why all of the hate for Rory "leaving early"? He stayed around to see if there would be a playoff. He lost. He saw a chance to get in the air and get home after a tough day, so he took it. I'm sure many others did as well. Runner-up has no obligations. Perhaps there were some congratulatory texts exchanged.
Not the best Open.
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Heisman Winner [114633]
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Re: What has happened to Pinehurst #2? It used to be one of the most beautiful
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10
Jun 17, 2024, 1:31 PM
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This why I play gold at the landfill east of fort Lauderdale. We drive the ball into the mound of garbage, and the first person that finds their ball wins that hole. It is much cheaper and you can pack your own lunch.
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All-TigerNet [12311]
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Re: What has happened to Pinehurst #2? It used to be one of the most beautiful
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Jun 17, 2024, 1:40 PM
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Tigerbalm1
Do you have to find your ball, or just a ball in general?
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Heisman Winner [114633]
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moot point.. matter
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Jun 17, 2024, 2:27 PM
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I can not drive worth a fugg, so I always find my balls first.
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110%er [7057]
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Re: moot point.. matter
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Jun 17, 2024, 3:00 PM
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I bet you find some nice things while looking for golf balls.
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Heisman Winner [114633]
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I found a pefectly imn tact
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Jun 17, 2024, 4:52 PM
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framed and signed photo of Kenny Hatfield circa 1993. How it ended up in landfill in Fort Lauderdale is beyond me.
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Orange Blooded [4168]
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Re: I found a pefectly imn tact
Jun 18, 2024, 9:28 AM
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Oh man! That brings back painful memories. I did all I could to run old Ken out of Tigertown. I took some heat from other boosters at first. Even called me not a true Clemson fan. It’s funny how people over react and claim inability to criticize something you love. I love my wife more than myself but I sure can give her an earful when she throws money away. I usually just smile and nod my head. I’m too smart to start a fight every time. Gotta keep Mama happy or nobody’s happy.
Message was edited by: OneJedi® because ducking autocorrect.
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Commissioner [934]
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Re: moot point.. matter
Jun 17, 2024, 10:05 PM
[ in reply to moot point.. matter ] |
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They r in arm’s length
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Orange Blooded [4531]
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Re: What has happened to Pinehurst #2? It used to be one of the most beautiful
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Jun 17, 2024, 1:33 PM
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Some years ago they put it back as it originally was. With the sand and the native grasses in the rough. Not all courses are like Augusta National.
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Team Captain [473]
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Re: What has happened to Pinehurst #2? It used to be one of the most beautiful
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Jun 17, 2024, 1:48 PM
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Had it rained your opinion might be different. It rained about 1/2" the Sunday prior. The USGA takes over and prefers it to dry out, making it hard and fast. But it also makes it look dead by the end of the week. They were hand watering some areas. Drove by this morning and irrigation was running full blast.
NBC is the worst anyway. Audio-video and commentary. No blimp, just drones. Some of those drone shots and the fly-overs were pretty good. But the view from above never does a golf course justice. That ground moves, a lot. It's called the Sand(HILLS) for a reason. The elevation changes on 4 and 5 alone
weren't really appreciated on TV. 4 tee is about 30 feet above the fairway. 13 green is about 10 feet above the landing area.
Agreed on Rory. Why should he hang around for Mike Tirico to ask him what happened on 16 -18?
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CU Medallion [65026]
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^^^This^^^
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Jun 17, 2024, 2:19 PM
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The USGA takes over and prefers to let the course dry out, making it hard and fast. That also makes it look dead by the end of the week.
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Orange Blooded [2037]
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Orange Blooded [2031]
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Re: What has happened to Pinehurst #2? It used to be one of the most beautiful
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Jun 17, 2024, 2:04 PM
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To each their own, golf coverage is always just golf coverage to me, I don't really listen to it that intently anyway.
As far as the course goes, I thought it was awesome. It was always going to get dried out looking, the USGA loves to do that, and it makes it play hard and fast which I like to see for the US Open.
The natural areas were great IMO, looking at some photos of the course from 2004 to today and I thought today looked way more natural and punishing for being off the fairway.
Your viewpoint is understood, but I'm on the other side of the coin, loved it. The Memorial tournament last weekend was probably right up your alley then, CBS coverage and a more traditional hard course.
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Team Captain [473]
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Re: What has happened to Pinehurst #2? It used to be one of the most beautiful
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Jun 17, 2024, 2:32 PM
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I agree that the US Open should be as tough as it gets. And I don't really mind hearing pros complain about how difficult it is. It's really the same course for everyone, so if you're not one of the guys that figured it out....sucks to be you. My take on the aesthetic is just that the contrast between the maintained areas makes the native-natural-waste areas stand out more. When the maintained areas start to brown out, the whole place looks horrible and unkept.
The greens are still the defense of Pinehurst #2. You can't really get away with anything. I think more so than anywhere else, there are places where you can hit it and there are places where you just can't. As a testament to Deschambeau, he only hit 5 of 14 fairways yesterday. His worst day all week. It was his ability to get up-and-down that won him the trophy.
Coming in I thought Rory's worst shot of the day was the tee shot on 17. He had just dropped a shot missing a short putt. Pin is back left on 17 and Rory naturally hits a high draw. Perfect for him and and opportunity to perhaps close it out then and there. But he jerked it left into the bunker.
One of the more exciting Opens I've watched. 5-10 guys could have won that thing at some point.
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Scout Team [184]
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Re: What has happened to Pinehurst #2? It used to be one of the most beautiful
Jun 17, 2024, 2:13 PM
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I was there in 2014 and it looked the same then.
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Commissioner [940]
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The change back to its original format happened prior to the 2014 US Open it
Jun 17, 2024, 2:28 PM
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hosted. In 1974 Robert Trent Jones changed the original sandhill look, moving it to more traditional US courses with Bermuda rough.
And yes, as one of the most iconic accessible golf courses in America it is expensive. Like Pebble or Bandon Dunes or many many others around.
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All-In [31136]
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It would never happen, but if the US Open were played at Augusta National
Jun 17, 2024, 2:57 PM
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even that course would look like garbage on Sunday. Bethpage, Congressional, Oakmont. They all look bad at the end of the tourney. Usually the California courses still look great at the end of the open, so climate on the eastern side of the country must not lend itself to aesthetically pleasing grass when up against the standards set by the USGA
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110%er [8913]
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Re: What has happened to Pinehurst #2? It used to be one of the most beautiful
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Jun 17, 2024, 3:10 PM
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Beauty is not why anyone would play #2. The genius of Donald Ross is on full display at Pinehurst and that is the reason the US Open will be back in 5 or 6 years. Great course, great test.
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Orange Blooded [3780]
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Not a fair course imo - I would never pay to play there***
Jun 17, 2024, 3:13 PM
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CU Medallion [65026]
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I played it once many years ago...
Jun 17, 2024, 3:54 PM
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As you might expect, the course set-up is not nearly as challenging as it is for a PGA event.
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All-TigerNet [12311]
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Re: What has happened to Pinehurst #2? It used to be one of the most beautiful
Jun 17, 2024, 3:23 PM
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To each his own, I guess. Back when I played I got just as much joy from the nice grass, landscaping, ponds/lakes, and white sand against green grass. It inspired many of my home beautification projects.
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Orange Blooded [2152]
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Re: What has happened to Pinehurst #2? It used to be one of the most beautiful
Jun 17, 2024, 3:35 PM
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Last time I went to a major the blimp was unbelievably annoying and distracting. The crowds were too much as well. I watch on TV. And I like the more natural look.
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Walk-On [106]
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Re: What has happened to Pinehurst #2? It used to be one of the most beautiful
Jun 17, 2024, 4:21 PM
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Just do it once and shut up. Splurge a little. It will make you happy.
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Freshman [-37]
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Re: What has happened to Pinehurst #2? It used to be one of the most beautiful
Jun 17, 2024, 5:37 PM
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That course looked terrible on tv. Compare that to how nice the course looked in Hilton Head at the Heritage.
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All-In [32564]
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Re: What has happened to Pinehurst #2? It used to be one of the most beautiful
Jun 17, 2024, 5:43 PM
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Go look at it in a week or so after they start laying the water to it. PGA and the US Open courses normally look like this by Sunday.
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All-TigerNet [11185]
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Re: What has happened to Pinehurst #2? It used to be one of the most beautiful
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Jun 17, 2024, 6:16 PM
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I thought the golf course looked and played fantastic ..... the way it should look and play. The USGA decided a number of years ago that some of their championships should be payed on "Links style" courses rather than parkland courses with plush fairways and thick deep rough. A "links" course , unlike many think, is not how it is laid out, but on the type of land it is built on. Links "land" is land along a coast that was formed by sand deposits over many many years and eventually covered in grass .... like in Scotland and Ireland. It is ideal for golf and if you have noticed that the British Open courses look similar to Pinehurst #2. But #2 isn't a true links course, but because it is in the sand hills, it can play much like one.
Condition wise, the color of the grass doesn't make it play any better, so having brown spots or stressed grass doesn't affect the play ..... except where you saw it on the greens where they got pretty hard. No big deal in fairways. Plush green grass, incidentally, is not particularly healthy grass. It means that it is probably over-fertilized. Fairly long read if you are interested.
https://www.the-gtc.co.uk/green-is-not-great/
Professional golfers know almost exactly how far they can hit the ball with certain clubs. However, when you make a course fast and firm, they don't always know where their ball is going to stop. That is a lot of what you saw during the Open Championship. Watching many of them struggle gave them a little taste of what many of us experience on much easier courses.
Incidentally, I play #2 right before the first US Open there in 1999. Jerry Pate was in a foursome in the group right behind us. After the round we were in the bar having some drinks and Jerry said "your foursome did something I have never seen four touring pros do ...... keeping all four tee shots on the putting surface on #15 green". I'm glad we didn't know that before hand or probably none of us would have stayed on the green! ">
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Team Captain [473]
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Re: What has happened to Pinehurst #2? It used to be one of the most beautiful
Jun 18, 2024, 8:25 AM
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Great story about Pate. I had a similar (non-playing) experience with Payne Stewart prior to the 1999 Open.
I agree with most of your post. Pros can't stand "rub of the green". But that's part of it. So, stressed grass does effect play. The USGA has been on a mission for a while to get present themselves as environmentally conscious. And in doing so having their most watched event go a little brown. As if those two things have anything to do with one another.
Any superintendent worth their salt isn't "over fertilizing" to get green. And you can get green by using iron, not fertilizer. Plush green grass IS healthy grass. Cutting the grass down to fairway height is stressing the plant out. Add traffic to that (look at the spectator crosswalks) and you're killing it.
BTW, in 1999 it was cooler than normal and raining. The course was very green. The winning score was 1-under. Mickelson was even. Everyone else was over par.
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Orange Blooded [4448]
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All-TigerNet [11185]
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Re: Want to read a load of crap??
Jun 17, 2024, 9:36 PM
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Excellent article …… makes a lot if sense to those that understand the game of golf and golf courses.
Incidentally, I never refer to any golf course as a “goat tracks”, as any facility that allows golfers to have a good time and enjoy themselves is ok with me. Who am I to tell them their course is a goat track? Pinehurst #2 certainly isn’t!
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Orange Blooded [4448]
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Re: Want to read a load of crap??
Jun 18, 2024, 12:02 PM
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Ok, it’s not a goat track. But having played pinehurst #2 in its hey day and seeing the shell of a course it has become is a travesty.
I didn’t go to this open, but I went to the last one and that was enough for me.
For a course that lacks water features and changing topography, it needs to at least be kept green and lush.
The rustic rough and burnt out fairways look like crap and they don’t add to the real challenge of the course. The fast domed greens is where the action is.
I understand that over-seeding with rye and watering the rough is expensive, but I think Pinehurst discovered there were plenty of people who would pay to play #2 if it were sand & weeds tee to green just to say they had
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Team Captain [473]
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Re: Want to read a load of crap??
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Jun 18, 2024, 1:55 PM
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If by "hey day" you mean back when Diamonhead owned it? There was grass treeline to treeline. I think they were attempting to create an AGNC that anyone could play. The azaleas they planted along the first and second holes of #2 are still there. When ClubCorp took over in 1984, their mission was to erase all things Diamondhead. Look at pictures of the Carolina back then and now. You'll see the difference.
I don't think #2 was ever intended to be AGNC. Although there has been speculation the Donald Ross was angry that he wasn't selected to design Augusta and went about building his own course. Who knows? I mean, they had sand greens and game was played largely along the ground when Ross designed it. So when they use the term "restoration", you really have to pick a date.
I do think that Coore-Crenshaw went a little overboard. They have said all along it was a restoration. But I can see their thumb print all over it from some of the other places they have designed. It's unavoidable really.
It's not over-seeded. It's June and the bermuda has already come back. A lot of places, including Pinehurst, don't over-seed anymore. They paint.
In reference to the term "goat-track", I had to choke back a little spit-up when the CEO of the USGA used the term "track" in the trophy ceremony. I may sound a little haughty about that, but found it a little less than complimentary. And speaking of, Not one USGA person spoke about the maintenance staff and the job they had done. It took Deschambo to do that for them.
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All-TigerNet [11185]
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Re: Want to read a load of crap??
Jun 18, 2024, 8:24 PM
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I have no idea who you are but you absolutely nailed it. You are quite knowledgeable about golf courses and particularly Pinehurst. When Diamondhead owned it, I thought they turned it into a complete disaster. Like you said, Donald Ross never intended it to be a parkland course like the Augusta National. I am also familiar with other Diamondhead projects and they too leave a lot to be desired. That south seas theme just doesn't work everywhere .....lol.
I know Crenshaw and Coore pretty well and think they did an admirable job on #2, but from the time it was done I said that it had been restored to a state that it had never been. That is not to say that it isn't better ...... I don't know ...... but I don't think it was like it is now in the early days. And your point about sand greens is right on target. If you restore it to its original configuration you would have to put sand greens back. Pete Dye claimed that when he was stationed at Ft. Bragg toward the end of WW II, he would go over ot Pinehurst at least once a week to play golf. This, of course, if after they converted the greens to Bermuda. He said that it seemed everytime he went that had heavily topdressed the greens, and the years and years of topdressing is what caused them to become turtlebacked. I don't completely believe that, but there is probably some truth to it. I saw a set of steps that came out of the 3rd green at the Country Club of Charleston buried under 3' of sand. Of course that was caused by players blasting out of the sand bunker.
I do think that the USGA did recognize the maintenance staff, as they mentioned that the superintendent had received an award ..... one that they do not always give out. They showed him being presented the award.
Great post!
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CU Guru [1466]
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I thought it looked great and it was an exciting finish.
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Jun 17, 2024, 9:12 PM
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Looks very natural, would have loved to have been there. Those DRoss greens are absolutely brutal though.
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Athletic Dir [856]
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Re: What has happened to Pinehurst #2? It used to be one of the most beautiful
Jun 17, 2024, 10:05 PM
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The Golf gods decided that one of Donald Ross's gems needed to be made ugly and they did a heck of a job!
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CU Medallion [72810]
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Bryson DeChappeau hit a lot of great shots to win the US Open, but he was also
Jun 18, 2024, 8:47 AM
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VERY lucky when it came to the wire grass in the rough. He hit his drives into that stuff several times on Sunday, but not once did he come up with a lie that was virtually unplayable, as some others did. That is one reason I do not like the USGA's approach to US Open course setups. Especially on a course like Pinehurst #2, where the wire grass rough is so uneven, that rough can be overly penal to one golfer, while giving the next a Get Out of Jail Free card.
The USGA always says they set up courses tough to "identify" the best golfers, not embarrass them. And yet, something like the wire grass at Pinehurst throws far too much of an element of pure LUCK into it for my tastes. If you are trying to set up the rough as a one stroke penalty, then that should be the case for ANYONE and EVERYONE who hits a shot into it. Pinehurst was most definitely not that way.
Another aspect of the "native areas" that is wrong to me is, footprints. Your ball rolls into the bottom of a deep footprint, and you have to play it out of there. The next guy hits it into the same place, but two inches away, and gets a good lie. Does that really mean he was a better player than you? Of course not, it just means he was LUCKIER than you. And luck should not decide a National Open Champion.
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Orange Blooded [2037]
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Luck will always be a part of competitive golf***
Jun 18, 2024, 8:48 AM
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All-TigerNet [11185]
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Re: Bryson DeChappeau hit a lot of great shots to win the US Open, but he was also
Jun 18, 2024, 9:00 AM
[ in reply to Bryson DeChappeau hit a lot of great shots to win the US Open, but he was also ] |
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I agree with most of your posts 76er, but I have to disagree with this one. The fairways at Pinehurst #2 are extremely wide and DeChambeau knew that he was taking a chance hitting those booming drives. In most cases he was hitting wedges and shorter irons from the native areas, so it was him that was taking the chance and I think he understood the risk involved. If he had some different luck, I sure do not think he would have blamed it on the golf course or the way it was set up. I amy be wrong, but I did not hear of a single golfer complaining about the course or how it was set up.
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Orange Blooded [4168]
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Re: What has happened to Pinehurst #2? It used to be one of the most beautiful
Jun 18, 2024, 9:23 AM
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I live nearby. We’re in a severe drought over here. My strawberry patch looks pitiful. I put out an everbear variety and have not gotten many berries worth the work. We need steady rain for a good while.
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CU Guru [1366]
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Re: What has happened to Pinehurst #2? It used to be one of the most beautiful
Jun 18, 2024, 11:22 AM
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I payed 5 bucks to play 18 yesterday at a course in Charlotte
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