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Tiger Titan [47591]
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I am loving the about face here regarding transfer players! LOL!
Jan 16, 2021, 10:00 AM
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I can’t tell you how many posts I’ve read over the years about how pathetic it was for Brownell to use transfer players, how it shows a weakness in recruiting and an inability to develop players, and how Dabo doesn’t need to do that.
Now that transferring is becoming of a thing in football as well, posters here are clamoring for Dabo to start using transfers.
It’s hilarious! You can’t make this stuff up!
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Game Day Hero [4123]
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Re: I am loving the about face here regarding transfer players! LOL!
Jan 16, 2021, 10:07 AM
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You should be pleased to see that the people on this board can change their minds. That is what you have been asking them to do about Coach Brownell. Maybe that will happen now?
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Tiger Titan [47591]
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It would be great if people can admit that they might’ve been wrong
Jan 16, 2021, 11:30 AM
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to the point that they can see things differently.
I haven’t seen anyone here publicly admit that. Instead, all I’ve seen is LSU and Ohio State envy over using transfer players to beat us.
It seems to be more of a “keeping up with the Joneses” issue than anything else. You know, the same people who are envious of the SEC.
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National Champion [8064]
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Re: It would be great if people can admit that they might’ve been wrong
Jan 16, 2021, 11:42 AM
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j/K - are you trying to indicate people do not have the right "to do an about face" without scrutiny? I mean, as you learn and things change around you "you change"!
You adapt and change with it or you eventually become a dinosaur.
No SEC envy needed to do that Judge Keller. No worries about LSU or Ohio State either. Clemson did it with homegrown talent in 2016 - composite class outside the top 12(13th or 14th) 5 year average class ranking! Including in 18 dismantling Ohio State - so heck to the no on that forever!
Including dismantling Alabama - at the time called the greatest college football team ever assembled by a few ESPN and CBS analyst. Took a knee not to embarrass them by 5 TDs with all "Clemson developed talent"!
So - you have a formula that is proven to work --- the only reason to change it is? My answer: "if things around you are changing to the point ------ > "that system is compromised and has inherent things that might make you vulnerable to those changes that have taken place"!
I.E. - you get an OL on campus and build them up for 3 years one being a RS and the kid transfers because they don't want to wait any longer to see significant playing time and feel they can get it sooner elsewhere! Now, all the time and investment is out. What do you do at that point Judge Keller?
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Freshman [-94]
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Re: It would be great if people can admit that they might’ve been wrong
Jan 16, 2021, 6:58 PM
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Whoa that’s some revisionist history pardner!
New things take time to evolve, manifest, build momentum. The portal is fairly new and in 2018 we were seeing a few big name QBs benefitting and moving among top 10 teams and people were seeing it completely differently than today. And if you recall there was supposed to be a penalty for transferring via sitting out a year.
Fast forward to 2021 and the NCAA is giving out waivers like candy on Halloween, LSU has a championship, and OSU played for a championship because of the portal. In 2018 it was still a novelty that gave Oklahoma some Heismans, but now we have seen how impactful it can truly be so don’t hang your hat on that 2018 championship as proof we don’t need the portal because 2019 & 2020 show that you can ignore the portal but you’re playing with one hand tied behind your back, which was not the case in 2018.
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Clemson Sports Icon [58731]
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Tiger Titan [47591]
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Well, I wouldn’t get myself ejected from the two biggest games of my career.
Jan 17, 2021, 9:36 PM
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But if I did, I’d gladly admit that I lacked composure.
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Clemson Conqueror [11653]
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Re: I am loving the about face here regarding transfer players! LOL!
Jan 16, 2021, 10:25 AM
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Yes. All of the transfers have built Clemson into a basketball powerhouse.
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Tiger Titan [47591]
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Way to miss the point completely.***
Jan 16, 2021, 11:30 AM
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Orange Immortal [64752]
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You had a point, Mrs. Brownell?
Jan 16, 2021, 1:44 PM
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Other than saying you’re butthurt about fans on here calling your husband pathetic for relying on transfers for any type of success at all - there is no point.
LOL.
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Tiger Titan [47591]
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Yes, the point is that some people here are hypocrites.
Jan 17, 2021, 9:45 PM
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If football does it, it’s great. If football doesn’t, and /or basketball does, it’s bad.
This trend on TNet is as predictable as the sun coming up every morning in the east.
Also, do you ever post an original thought of your own, or is it always sarcasm and criticism?
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TigerNet Legend [146436]
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There are other predictable trends on Tnet as well.***
Jan 17, 2021, 9:50 PM
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Valley Protector [1418]
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Distortion, Spin, & Exaggeration were used to make your point...
Jan 16, 2021, 8:22 PM
[ in reply to Way to miss the point completely.*** ] |
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Have yet to see any statements that suggest the TP be used to the extent the BBall has. "Yes, it would be a wonderful idea if we had 25%-35% of the 85 man roster represented by transfers annually. "Yes, lets become so reliant on transfers, that they become part of our recruiting footprint" Nonexistent are the views that support your point-
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Tiger Titan [47591]
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How many players on our 9-10 man rotation were transfers?
Jan 17, 2021, 9:42 PM
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Honor and Baehre are it.
Simms, Dawes, Trapp, Newman, Tyson, Hemenway, Hall, Prosper, and Kidd are signees from high school.
Brownell used transfers in the past to address losses from players who transferred out. They filled needs. Those players, such as Reed, Thomas, and Michell, played significant roles for us. And they replaced players who left who weren’t as good, so they represented a talent upgrade.
That approach has allowed us to be competitive against programs with way better histories and much better support than we have.
But we had fans here whining about it endlessly, using it to say that Brownell can’t recruit high school players and can’t keep players, that he needs to learn from Dabo.
It was a way to take a cheap shot at our basketball program, and that’s sad. Now those people look stupid.
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Tiger Spirit [9627]
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Hey Judge - I may be a hippo crate because I'm all about
Jan 16, 2021, 11:23 AM
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Brownlee using transfers.
My reasoning - In my view, transfers are invaluable for building a program. Good way for a coach to bring proven/mature players into a struggling, inconsistent program (Clemson basketball).
The football program on the other hand, is established and doesn't need to bring in mature players, as we build leadership from the players growing/developing. I could be wrong (Lord, please don't tell my wife I said that)
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Rival Killer [2765]
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Re: Hey Judge - I may be a hippo crate because I'm all about
Jan 16, 2021, 11:36 AM
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Agreed, apples to oranges comparison. I am not ready for Dabo to start using the transfer portal yet. I stress yet because I trust Dabo and his staff that if they do start using the portal they feel they have to in order to win at the highest level. Basketball is different because if you can’t get the one and done guys which we can’t you better get the best you can get and if that means using the portal then I am fine with that because I know Coach Brownell will vet the guys extremely well to make sure they fit the Clemson standard. Remember in basketball only about 10 guys get to play but in Football there may be 10 offensive linemen and 10 defensive linemen and 8 wide receivers, I think you get the point without me rambling.
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Freshman [-94]
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Re: Hey Judge - I may be a hippo crate because I'm all about
Jan 16, 2021, 7:16 PM
[ in reply to Hey Judge - I may be a hippo crate because I'm all about ] |
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I hate to break it to you, and you can have an opinion, but you are factually incorrect. Ohio State kicked our ### with transfer players. Their two best players were transfers. And they out recruit us every year. So don’t tell me that recruiting alone is going to win championships because it’s not unless you’re named Alabama and have Nick Saban as your coach. Alabama has had seven number one recruiting classes in the last 11 years. Those other four classes were all top-five.
And people like you keep using asinine logic. No one is talking about building our program on the portal. Ohio State didn’t build their program on the portal. Oklahoma didn’t build their program on the portal. But they’re adding key pieces where they need depth or where they need more talent thanks to the portal. The foundation of our program will always be recruiting. But today the way players transfer, injuries, turning pro after only three years, players leaving after only one or two concussions that used to keep playing, a whole plethora of reasons that didn’t exist just a few years ago, now make it almost impossible to manage your roster and have key depth at every position without using the portal.
This is not rocket science. You folks just don’t wanna change. Ignore the portal and we will get left behind and Dabo knows that. Dabo saying he doesn’t want to use the portal was before we saw what kind of impact it could have when used wisely and selectively like Ohio State. We are not going to become LSU. That’s an example of how not to use the portal.
How do you think Bobby Bouden turned FSU into a powerhouse? He did it by using a loophole in NCAA regulations and by being an independent. The NCAA was talking about regulations for partial qualifiers so the conferences decided to stay ahead of the changes so the SEC and the ACC limited the number of partial qualifiers each program sign each year. The SEC said 1 the ACC said 2. Florida State let Bowden recruit them all so as an independent FSU went out and built their program on partial qualifiers and built a powerhouse. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying Bobby Bouden was not a great coach, but FSU would not have become the powerhouse they were had it not been for the SEC and the ACC limiting partial qualifiers. That’s a perfect example of one program using the rules against other programs.
Life is about change. those that are successful adapt evolve and move forward! Those that don’t will get left behind. It’s also the law of nature. Natural selection and survival of the fittest. Evolution!
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National Champion [8064]
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Re: I am loving the about face here regarding transfer players! LOL!
Jan 16, 2021, 11:30 AM
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J. Keller Judge Keller® You don't think the fact the transfer rules has anything to do with the about face?
How can a program sustain losing players - yet not bring in players to replace the players lost to the portal? Especially if you have put time and effort into building the player up.
To me - it's far less of an about face as it is "adapting and overcoming the current state of affairs in CFB"! NO?
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Tiger Titan [47591]
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How is that any different than Brownell using transfers in basketball?
Jan 16, 2021, 11:34 AM
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The difference is that many of our fans viewed it as a weakness in basketball, but now seem to think it would be a strength in football. It’s not consistent.
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Rival Killer [2765]
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Re: How is that any different than Brownell using transfers in basketball?
Jan 16, 2021, 11:41 AM
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I never thought it was a weakness in Clemson basketball, but yes in Clemson Football. We are not expecting Clemson basketball to go to the final four every year just the final 68 every year and I don’t think that is too much to ask for or expect.
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MVP [530]
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Re: How is that any different than Brownell using transfers in basketball?
Jan 17, 2021, 6:15 PM
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I never thought it was a weakness in Clemson basketball, but yes in Clemson Football. We are not expecting Clemson basketball to go to the final four every year just the final 68 every year and I don’t think that is too much to ask for or expect.
u r correct-we don’t “expect” CU BB to go to the Final Four...but we should!! And maybe if we did, they would!! Or at least make a run at it. The top programs have sold out to the one & diners. We can’t do that at this point so the transfer portal is the next best thing for us. Let’s face it we would have gladly taken Zion as a one&done if we’d had the chance
My concern with FB is what transfers mean to the culture of the program which has been built in part on the idea that an individual’s hard work and dedication will pay off with playing time. Now u have a transfer guy come in and jump ahead on the depth chart cause he was promised playing time JUST FOR SHOWING UP. (e.g. Collin Hill/Ryan Helinski). Not that SCar needs any help destroying a football program but that seems a good way to “lose the locker room”.
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National Champion [8064]
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Re: How is that any different than Brownell using transfers in basketball?
Jan 16, 2021, 11:44 AM
[ in reply to How is that any different than Brownell using transfers in basketball? ] |
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The difference is that many of our fans viewed it as a weakness in basketball, but now seem to think it would be a strength in football. It’s not consistent.
And I would argue many people who follow the football team "DO NOT FOLLOW THE BASKETBALL TEAM" like they do the football team.
So, in large part, you might be talking to a bunch of posters with different mindsets. Plus, as mentioned, the football team has won at the highest level against the so called very best - doing it w/o transfers! Has basketball?
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Standout [335]
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Re: I am loving the about face here regarding transfer players! LOL!
Jan 16, 2021, 11:50 AM
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Yes, things are bad when others do it and good when we do it. Fairly typical of fanbases.
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Tiger Spirit [9134]
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Re: transfer players!
Jan 16, 2021, 12:14 PM
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Most fans on this board are like me. We don't have enough facts to make a decision as to whether using transfer players is a good or bad decision. As for me, I trust the Coaches to make that decision. Then, we live with their decision or get another Coach.
Have a nice day.
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Clemson Conqueror [11653]
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Re: transfer players!
Jan 16, 2021, 12:46 PM
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Wonder if there is some sort of running record which shows where players transferred from, where they went to, how they performed, etc. A guy like Fields is the obvious choice for those in favor of the portal. I'm just wondering how the rest have fared. For a team like Clemson, it has not been an issue. I think the past decade speaks for itself. If the Tigers begin to slip, then maybe it becomes a more legitimate way to get talented players. I understand why the basketball team relies more heavily on the portal and I'm glad it finally seems to be helping, but I don't think a program would be able to sustain long term success by relying too heavily on non recruits.
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CU Medallion [19889]
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Why this post? Seems antagonistic? Boredom perhaps?***
Jan 16, 2021, 1:28 PM
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Campus Hero [13524]
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people do what (all) people do, no thinking for themselves
Jan 16, 2021, 1:37 PM
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it's why we're in the state we're in! sheeeeep
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Orange Blooded [3169]
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Re: people do what (all) people do, no thinking for themselves
Jan 16, 2021, 2:23 PM
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Can we assume that you are not part of "all people"? You think for yourself even if nobody else does?
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Campus Hero [13524]
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also true that many here see the program as "in trouble"
Jan 16, 2021, 1:38 PM
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since it's been two years without a Natty.
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TigerNet Champion [118181]
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stay focused
Jan 16, 2021, 1:49 PM
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we have a game tonight Judge.
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TigerNet Legend [146436]
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Nobody cares...
Jan 16, 2021, 4:50 PM
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except me.
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Athletic Dir [1197]
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Re: I am loving the about face here regarding transfer players! LOL!
Jan 16, 2021, 5:27 PM
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I call it learning and adapting.
Personally, never had a problem with the portal use in hoops either.
You wanna gloat and rub it in other Tiger fans faces? That's on you.
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TigerNet Legend [146436]
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Thanks for sharing.***
Jan 16, 2021, 5:38 PM
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Tiger Titan [47591]
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My pleasure. Thank you for listening.***
Jan 17, 2021, 9:49 PM
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Tiger Spirit [9561]
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I owe you an apology, Judge.
1
Jan 16, 2021, 5:52 PM
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I have decided, in the last couple of months, that Brad is indeed a better basketball coach than Dabo.
You’ve been right the whole time.
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Tiger Titan [47591]
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That’s amazing, because you’re in the minority here.
Jan 17, 2021, 9:49 PM
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Most people who post here think Dabo is a better basketball coach than Brownell.
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National Champion [7474]
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Stop being so da mn stupid! Dabo has proven he does NOT
Jan 16, 2021, 5:53 PM
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"NEED" transfers. Brownell hasn't won sh it! Again don't be STOOPID!!!
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Tiger Titan [47591]
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I agree, Dabo doesn’t need transfers.
Jan 17, 2021, 9:52 PM
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But a lot of people here feel that he should start using them for football, since we have gotten waxed two years in a row by teams that did use transfers.
It’s funny, since it has been so criticized when we do it in basketball.
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TigerNet Legend [146436]
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I think you have been had by a troll.***
Jan 17, 2021, 9:54 PM
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Ring of Honor [21305]
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Re: I am loving the about face here regarding transfer players! LOL!
Jan 16, 2021, 6:28 PM
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As I rule I wouldn't like 'em.
If I'm Dabo I stick with what got me here - team culture - and bring in 1-2 guys a year, max, and only then at dire "need" positions. Occasionally you get a hole, a bunch of injuries or attrition or early NFL entries, and you wind up with what we had this year on the OL. Finding, say, even one really solid tackle from the portal would have really helped us this past year because it would have shored up a bunch of positions - the coaches could have, say, bumped McFadden inside, where we were honestly either too young or just plain not athletic enough.
There probably aren't a ton of guys in the Portal who'd fit Clemson's culture or would be good enough really to help, but still...we're Clemson. Lotta guys would love that opportunity.
Just from where I'm sitting, I'd definitely be looking really hard to see if there's a veteran tackle who could help us again in 2021 for sure...and, frankly, if there's a killer guard or C in there I wouldn't pass on him either.
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Game Day Hero [4308]
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Huge difference Judge
Jan 16, 2021, 7:04 PM
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Two paths.
One recruits good players and builds. And now may pick up the odd player. Dabo will pick up a strong player.
The other recruits and builds the majority of his team with other teams transfers. (From lower level programs.)
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Asst Coach [879]
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Re: I am loving the about face here regarding transfer players! LOL!
Jan 16, 2021, 7:11 PM
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The landscape has completely changed in the last 2 years because of the immediate impact undergrad transfers can have due to recent precedent-setting situations.
Transparently, I don’t really like your takes often, and this is no exception. You’re an ‘I told you so’ guy. No one likes that guy.
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Tiger Titan [47591]
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Thanks, I’ve been really concerned that you don’t like my posts.***
Jan 17, 2021, 10:34 PM
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Freshman [-94]
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Re: I am loving the about face here regarding transfer players! LOL!
Jan 16, 2021, 7:25 PM
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I have been in favor of wise prudent select usage of the portal since day one because I understand how these things work because I understand how FSU built their program while the SEC and the ACC were limiting partial qualifiers. When everyone has different rules, via edict or self-imposed, you will not have a level playing field.
And I knew this would happen and I predicted it. That sooner or later Dabo would reverse his stance and when he did the people on here that drink the Dabo Kool-Aid would have whiplash and flip-flop in a way that will make a politician proud!
In all honesty I didn’t think it would happen this quickly, but the NCAA giving out waivers like candy at a parade changed everything! LSU building a championship in 19 and Ohio State this year also showed people what could be done with the portal. Everything has been escalated faster than I thought over the last two years. I still think the NCAA is going to have to do something. Maybe a one time transfer without penalty, but after that if you transfer again you have to sit out for a year and still make players have only five years to play four except for major injuries. Because we are already seeing players transfer multiple times and that is going to cause total chaos if that keeps going. Especially now that we have N I L coming into play. if you don’t put some restrictions on the portal along with NIL schools will never stop recruiting players and just getting a guy on campus the first year will lead to a battle to keep him every year after that.
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