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Replies: 50
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Webmaster [∞]
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TNET: Clemson will have a lot of competition at wide receiver during spring practice
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Jan 20, 2023, 7:00 AM
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Clemson Sports Icon [58712]
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Re: TNET: Clemson will have a lot of competition at wide receiver during spring practice
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Jan 20, 2023, 7:13 AM
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I'm looking forward to seeing the new faces at WR. Hopefully, the group, as a whole, can stay healthy this year.
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Paw Warrior [4758]
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Re: TNET: Clemson will have a lot of competition at wide receiver during spring practice
Jan 20, 2023, 1:21 PM
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Competition is a good thing. Hopefully we’ll at least start the best WR’s. Should be fun with our new OC.
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Standout [218]
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Re: TNET: Clemson will have a lot of competition at wide receiver during spring practice
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Jan 20, 2023, 7:35 AM
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With the hiring of G.Riley I think you'll see a new level of energy and intensity with the entire offensive play. The defense had to carry the Team almost the entire season 2022 under the DJU regime.
These guys will want to go out and prove they can run routes and catch the ball for their new Coach, we have a lot of talent that needs to be developed and I think Riley can provide a new spark for these guys to improve and shine. Now we have a fearless young QB that can throw an accurate pass even when under duress and hit open receivers. I can only see a bright future for Clemson in 2023.
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CU Guru [1500]
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In 2022, the defense dropped from 2021 while the offense improved
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Jan 20, 2023, 8:01 AM
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The offense was super bad in 2021 at 99th, but we improved significantly in every offensive statistical category in 2022 and jumped to 48th. We were 80th in time of possession in 2021, while in 2022 we jumped to 35th.
I agree the defense carried the team in 2021, but I'd say it was an equal effort in 2022.
To your point, I expect a big jump in offense with Riley and Cade.
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Solid Orange [1348]
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Re: In 2022, the defense dropped from 2021 while the offense improved
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Jan 20, 2023, 8:32 AM
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I think the defense without question didn't play up to their potential this year. Our defensive line superstars really underperformed (XT was hurt again, Bresee obviously had some understandable distractions, Murphy was lazy). But to call it an equal effort is absurd.
Offense:
Scoring: #30
Total: #48
Yards Per Play: #70
Passing: #66
YPA: #98
Rushing: #47
Yards per rush: #53
Turnovers:#95
Defense:
Scoring: #22
Total: #28
Yards Per Play: #19
Passing: #76
YPA:#34
Rushing: #13
Yards per rush: #11
Turnovers: #62
The defense wasn't elite any more, but it was very good throughout most of the season. Comparing us to 2021 is dumb. Because we played much better defenses in 2021. In 2021, 7 of our opponents had top 50 defenses, and only 2 were outside the top 75 (Wake and UConn). In 2022, 5 were top 50, but a whopping 6 were outside the top 75. We played bottom of the basement defenses this year. You can't say we improved statistically and ignore that.
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CU Guru [1500]
TigerPulse: 76%
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Yeah, it was an equal effort.
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Jan 20, 2023, 10:29 AM
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Neither side of the ball carried the team. Each did their part in the 11 wins.
Did you watch the games?
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Clemson Sports Icon [55600]
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Re: Yeah, it was an equal effort.
Jan 20, 2023, 11:33 AM
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You have to understand where and what tigerpride is saying. He's correct in saying you can't deduct the offense was improved because of the stats unless you take everything into consideration. And that's what he/she said. People automatically assume it's a negative post. Probably because of tnet points and pulse.
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CU Guru [1500]
TigerPulse: 76%
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Um, that's not what he's saying.
Jan 20, 2023, 12:21 PM
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He saying the defense carried the program to 11 wins in 2022. I completely disagree. Look at the Wake game just for example. The defense got shredded all day, and that's a sure loss without the offense. Offense came back and won the Syracuse game as well. Not going to look at all the games but that's two losses without the offense pulling equal or greater weight.
His stance is not that the offense didn't improve in 2022. The 2022 defense was not like the 2021 defense, and without the significant improvement in 2022 offense, we don't win 11 games or even make the ACC Championship Game.
Not sure where you're getting what you're getting, but he's certainly not saying the offense didn't improve in 2022. You can absolutely say that with authority based on stats and what we saw in games.
The defense did not "carry" the 2022 team. 2022 saw better offensive stats in everything, and that's why we won 11 games.
Are you saying that's not correct, and that the defense did carry the 2022 team to 11 wins and an ACC Championship?
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All-In [10416]
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Re: In 2022, DB play declined a lot vs. their 2021 level.
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Jan 20, 2023, 10:42 AM
[ in reply to Re: In 2022, the defense dropped from 2021 while the offense improved ] |
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DB was, by far, the weakest unit of our D last year.
We missed Andrew Booth and Mario Goodrich like crazy.
N.Wiggins, who was beat badly in first 1/3 of the season improved immensely and was a stud CB by end of the season.
Mukuba was clearly out of position playing in a role that led to too much man coverage; as a roving safety he’s at his best.
Our other DBs will be better in 2023 than they were in 2022; good health + experience will do wonders.
When (not if, but when) our DBs play very well for the entire season, our D will return to performance levels much closer to its 2021 level than to its 2022 level.
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CU Guru [1500]
TigerPulse: 76%
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I just did a quick check too -
Jan 20, 2023, 12:36 PM
[ in reply to Re: In 2022, the defense dropped from 2021 while the offense improved ] |
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In 2021 we played 4 defenses in the top 25: UGA, Iowa St, Syracuse, and NC State. We lost 3 of those games.
In 2022 we played 5 defenses in the top 25: FSU, NC State, Syracuse, Notre Dame, and Louisville. We lost one of those games.
We played more top 25 defenses in 2022 than we did in 2021.
In 2021, we lost 3 of 4 games to top 25 defenses. In 2022 we lost 1 of 5 games to top 25 defenses.
Spare me the silly notion that the 2022 offense was saved by lesser defenses. The offense did better across the board and the defense went down across the board.
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Freshman [-97]
TigerPulse: 38%
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Re: I just did a quick check too -
Jan 20, 2023, 1:32 PM
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Ok Skeeter. Sorry you were fired buddy!
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CU Guru [1500]
TigerPulse: 76%
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You obviously lost this debate.
Jan 21, 2023, 1:19 PM
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That makes you the loser.
Your winning friend,
Skeeter
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Game Changer [1845]
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Re: TNET: Clemson will have a lot of competition at wide receiver during spring practice
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Jan 20, 2023, 7:36 AM
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I think this season will present itself as one of those where a freshman can separate himself (literally and figuratively) from the pack. Hoping that someone like Noble can have a Sammy-type of year.
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All-Time Great [91374]
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I think that Noble Johnson is going to have a very good year***
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Jan 20, 2023, 7:37 AM
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110%er [3641]
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Re: I think that Noble Johnson is going to have a very good year***
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Jan 20, 2023, 7:42 AM
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I wonder what Will Taylor might decide to do. He misses valuable development time for baseball in the fall and similarly football in the spring. With NIL, if he has a strong baseball season this year, I wonder if he might give up his football scholarship to focus 100% on baseball heading into his 3rd year and draft eligibility.
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All-Time Great [91374]
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I think that's a definite possibility.***
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Jan 20, 2023, 7:45 AM
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CU Guru [1500]
TigerPulse: 76%
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Wouldn't he have declared that already?
Jan 21, 2023, 1:22 PM
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And free up a scholarship? I don't think he can quit football and keep his (football) scholarship, can he?
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Paw Warrior [4848]
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You can tell it’s the “off-season”.
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Jan 20, 2023, 8:02 AM
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Articles like this start popping up. Next article will be about a offensive linemen that’s ready to “be aggressive and push people around like never before”.
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Athletic Dir [1199]
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Re: You can tell it’s the “off-season”.
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Jan 20, 2023, 8:17 AM
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He's going to put them "flat on their backs"! Lol
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110%er [4034]
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Re: You can tell it’s the “off-season”.
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Jan 20, 2023, 11:41 AM
[ in reply to You can tell it’s the “off-season”. ] |
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Yeah I'm not buying into O-line off season hype anymore. That seems to bite me in the rear pretty often. At this point "no hype is hype" for me at O-line.
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CU Guru [1500]
TigerPulse: 76%
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I must have missed it.
Jan 21, 2023, 1:20 PM
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What did the offensive line do wrong this year? Did they cause us to lose any games?
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Heisman Winner [80936]
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I thank Joseph Ngata for his play at Clemson. He was, when
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Jan 20, 2023, 8:21 AM
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able to play, at least a consistent player. But, to me, at least, he also symbolized the "shortfall", if you will, of the quality of receivers from that era compared to the previous ones at WRU. With him now gone, the receiver room can "reset", and start anew under Garrett Riley.
I at first typed Garrett MORRIS, and had to correct it. Because, this seems like a complete reset, and the excitement around the program is just like it was when Chad Morris, who was a Gus Malzaln "disciple" was first hired. Although the bloom may be off Malzahn now, back then he was considered THE brightest offensive mind going, and anyone running his system was going to be successful.
Garrett Riley may be in that mold, although he is running an offshoot of Mike Leach's "Air Raid" system. Football, offensively and defensively, has to continuously evolve to stay successful. That is where I think we at Clemson kind of lost focus. Our offense had gotten far too stale and predictable, with the results showing the decline.
Will we be immediately successful, like we were under Chad Morris? Hard to say. I don't see another Sammy Watkins in the wide receiver room, but then again, Sammy wasn't Sammy until he was, on a college football field. One thing I can already sense, the fun is going to be back.
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110%er [6166]
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Ngata, Ladson, and Henderson were the “next generation” for
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Jan 20, 2023, 9:39 AM
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WRU at Clemson …
All highly ranked and heavily recruited.
None lived up to expectations.
This was a very curious and troubling development.
Was it poor coaching? Was it the QBs lack of ability? Or were they simply over-rated to begin with?
Just seems odd that all three would fail to produce.
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Clemson Sports Icon [55600]
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Re: Ngata, Ladson, and Henderson were the “next generation” for
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Jan 20, 2023, 9:58 AM
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Poor recruiting. Poor roster management. It's a case study in how we could have used the portal... and it didn't just start in 21. It goes back to 2019 to current. We love to bash analysts instead of possibly listening to what they have to say.
Look at the games in 21 and this year. The defense we faced sat back and played 2 high safety. We had no answers once Amari left. Why we thought spector was the next coming of Amari or renfrow is beyond me. Love the kid but he's 3rd string.
Hopefully Randall, turner, and then one of our summer guys can develop. Along with stellato and use Williams in the slot. Someone has to step up and be the underneath guy... that defenses have to respect.
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CU Guru [1500]
TigerPulse: 76%
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Woooow.
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Jan 20, 2023, 10:40 AM
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Poor recruiting? Can we at least see the guys we have now play a year with a good QB?
And nobody in the magic portal would replace any of the guys we have now. Again, portal guys aren't moving around to be depth. They're coming in to start from day 1, and we already have good receivers. It's IMPOSSIBLE to judge the receivers when the QB had such a difficult time getting the ball beyond 8 yards. When Cade came in, the existing WRs looked immediately better. That was without B. Collins, one of our best WRs. And we have some elite talent coming in as well.
Bottom line is we could have had several Jerry Rices out there for DJ, and it wouldn't have made a difference. Fact is, the vast majority of the time we had people open, but the QB couldn't see them, or trust himself when he did see them, and was quite often inaccurate when he did throw it. You cannot have good receivers under that situation, and the portal wouldn't have changed anything about the last two seasons, unless you're talking about an instant stud QB, and it's not like the portal is like Walmart where you walk in and just pick off a shelf.
WRs will look better in 2023 because we have a QB who can actually play the position without restrictions and handcuffed the offense. The magic portal is not the answer to this issue.
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All-In [10416]
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Re: Ngata, etc. WR recruiting myths
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Jan 20, 2023, 11:07 AM
[ in reply to Re: Ngata, Ladson, and Henderson were the “next generation” for ] |
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We had signed highly rated WR recruits who under performed at the college level during their time with us.
Deon Cain comes to mind. 5* burner who dropped far too many passes to be a big impact player. To be fair, he played well (not superstar well, but well) for his last season with us. Because of measurables, D.Cain was of interest to the NFL and has had a decent run thus far.
We all talk about our brilliant recognition of D.Hopkins as a sure thing WR, but when signing him he was considered as much of a safety as he was as a WR. So D.Hopkins was a fabulously successful college WR, but not because of some premonition that he would be that good.
Ngata had the misfortune of a body that was prone to injury. To say that our coaches whiffed when evaluating him is just wrong. As we all witnessed, when fully healthy (as he was against UGA and TN), he had the ability to be a difference maker. You can’t pin the ‘bad recruit’ label on the coaches because they could not predict Ngata’s tendency to be out or seriously hobbled when exposed to the type of hits or the college type of practices (from which he got hamstring pulls).
This stuff that our coaches have lost their skills when evaluating WR recruits is just nonsense. With respect to WR recruiting, our coaching staff’s brilliance of the few-years-ago brilliance vs incompetence of the past ~ 3 or 4 years are both overblown.
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Clemson Sports Icon [55600]
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Re: Ngata, etc. WR recruiting myths
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Jan 20, 2023, 11:42 AM
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Do either of you read or comprehend what I said?
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Game Changer [1625]
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Re: Ngata, etc. WR recruiting myths
Jan 20, 2023, 1:26 PM
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Do either of you read or comprehend what I said?
TU to you. You tried.
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Valley Protector [1418]
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Re: Ngata, etc. WR recruiting myths
Jan 20, 2023, 11:55 AM
[ in reply to Re: Ngata, etc. WR recruiting myths ] |
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Agree: Ngata gets a bad rap, btw Cain played QB in HS-probably slowed his development.
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CU Guru [1500]
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All-In [10416]
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Re: The answer: PFF rating for QB much higher than WR unit
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Jan 20, 2023, 11:11 AM
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PFF ratings for QB and WR positions say that you are incorrect … by a wide margin.
TMail Ryan Cantor … maybe he’ll be able to help you find his article from earlier in January about each of our unit PFF grades for 2022.
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Standout [218]
TigerPulse: 75%
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Re: Ngata, Ladson, and Henderson were the “next generation” for
Jan 22, 2023, 9:29 AM
[ in reply to Ngata, Ladson, and Henderson were the “next generation” for ] |
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Biggest issues was poor DJU QB play, "everything that was said or printed in 2022 was about DJU finding confidence" a great team evolves around a great QB. Enough said !!
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Clemson Icon [27676]
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Re: I thank Joseph Ngata for his play at Clemson. He was, when
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Jan 20, 2023, 10:38 AM
[ in reply to I thank Joseph Ngata for his play at Clemson. He was, when ] |
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+1 for the Garrett Morris reference. Maybe Chico Escuela could coach base-a-ball.
For those of you too young to remember Garrett Morris or Chico Escuela from a time when people didn’t get offended by EVERYTHING, google is your friend.
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Valley Protector [1418]
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Re: I thank Joseph Ngata for his play at Clemson. He was, when
Jan 20, 2023, 12:19 PM
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baseball was very good to him
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Orange Blooded [2444]
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Paw Warrior [4876]
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Re: TNET: Clemson will have a lot of competition at wide receiver during spring practice
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Jan 20, 2023, 8:35 AM
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Briningstool will have to be a go to guy this year as well. With his size and big play ability, he'll have to be used all over the place. The key this year is just staying healthy. Collins, Randall, and Williams is a solid trio that can do alot of damage. Throw in Turner, Spector, and Johnson....it's talented, but no room for error when it comes to injuries. Just pray they stay healthy. But I think we'll see alot of the Shipley/Mafah combo and Briningstool to take some of that load off.
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Ring of Honor [21011]
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Re: TNET: Clemson will have a lot of competition at wide receiver during spring practice
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Jan 20, 2023, 9:29 AM
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WRU has definitely taken a hit because of average recruiting over the last few cycles. I hope Garrett can re-energize that position group and attract some top talent for 2024. I think we have a good nucleus of guys to develop but I would not put any of them in the elite category. We will really need several of them to take a big leap in production this year if we want to make an improvement over 2022.
I believe a new offense is coming at a great time and gives us a chance to develop some young guys who hopefully will rise to the occasion.
Message was edited by: slwcu79®
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CU Guru [1500]
TigerPulse: 76%
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Did the WRs immediately look better when Cade was in?
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Jan 20, 2023, 10:47 AM
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Yes.
The issue we had the last two years wasn't receivers. Nobody can objectively say the WRs played bad, when the obvious fact is the guy whi was supposed to be getting them the ball had some very serious issues. Hence he was benched for the true freshman , and suddenly WRs looked like they were getting open more.
Same guys, same routes.. different QB.
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Letterman [288]
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Re: TNET: Clemson will have a lot of competition at wide receiver during spring practice
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Jan 20, 2023, 9:43 AM
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competition makes everyone better according to capitalism
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Top TigerNet [31735]
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Why can't we keep our WR healthy? SHEESH
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Jan 20, 2023, 9:52 AM
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....
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National Champion [7512]
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Re: TNET: Clemson will have a lot of competition at wide receiver during spring practice
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Jan 20, 2023, 10:11 AM
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I think the group will be a lot better simply because of Garrett Riley and Cade Klubnik. There are some good pieces.
However, I just don’t see an alpha. I don’t see a Sammy, Nuk, Mike, Tee, or Ross.
If the scholarship numbers open up after spring practice, WR is a position where we should look into bringing in a portal player.
WR and LB. Those positions need one more “guy”
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All-In [10416]
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Re: TNET: Clemson will have a lot of competition at wide receiver during spring practice
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Jan 20, 2023, 11:17 AM
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We are allegedly pursuing UGA portal WR … son or nephew of former MBA player Mookie Blaylock.
We don’t have the NIL resources to pay superstar mercenary WRs such as the Jaimeson Williams or Jordan Addison types.
Clemson will have to ‘home grow’ our star WRs.
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Commissioner [1299]
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Re: TNET: Clemson will have a lot of competition at wide receiver during spring practice
Jan 20, 2023, 4:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: Clemson will have a lot of competition at wide receiver during spring practice ] |
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Your alpha receiver doesn't necessarily have to be that guy who's 6'5 like we've been spoiled with in the past. You just need a consistent route runner who gets open and puts up 80 to 100 yds a game, which Randall/WillIams/Collins can do with competent QB play.
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National Champion [7512]
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Re: TNET: Clemson will have a lot of competition at wide receiver during spring practice
Jan 22, 2023, 12:03 PM
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I agree. There have been plenty of alphas that are “undersized”
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CU Medallion [19710]
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Having a quality QB changes everything ...
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Jan 20, 2023, 11:05 AM
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Williams has earned a starting role. Based on Randall's spring/summer 2022 performance with CK2, a healthy Randall looks like a lock as well. The 3rd WR appears to be a competition with likable Beaux Collins and hungry & faster newcomer Cole Turner. Hopefully, Noble Johnson will be able to compete for reps with an early spring start. Can Spector help at safety? Truly do not see a lot of competition unless one of the freshman is a diamond in the rough - that would be a very fine outcome.
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All-TigerNet [14751]
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Will the new offense regime run more 4 and 5 wr? If so, its
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Jan 20, 2023, 11:14 AM
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a thin group. If we run mostly 3 wr I think depth will be fine. Look for one or two freshman to flash just out of numbers someone will flash.
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Tiger Spirit [9960]
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Re: TNET: Clemson will have a lot of competition at wide receiver during spring practice
Jan 20, 2023, 11:55 AM
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Injuries play just a huge part at any position and I just wish we could have a year that the injury report is not the news of the day.
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Standout [302]
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Re: TNET: Clemson will have a lot of competition at wide receiver during spring practice
Jan 20, 2023, 12:21 PM
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I think play calling will have the biggest impact on our wide receivers and recruiting. Hopefully we won't run the bubble screen every other play! Obviously it isn't going to be successful when everyone in the stadium knows it's coming. Sure, it may give the QB/WR a completion, but more often than not it's gonna be for a loss or only 1-2 yards. Hard to be an considered an elite receiver when you're only averaging 4 or 5 yards per catch. Don't think for a second that potential recruits don't see that.
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MVP [523]
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Re: TNET: Clemson will have a lot of competition at wide receiver during spring practice
Jan 20, 2023, 4:39 PM
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Yeah, the "opportunity" to get blasted by a linebacker or a D-lineman on a screen as opposed to being dragged down by a cornerback or a safety does not sound very enjoyable for a wide receiver. Plus, we don't seem to block it very well. To be used sparingly (if we can learn to block it and average ten yards with it.
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Orange Phenom [14803]
TigerPulse: 100%
49
Posts: 10631
Joined: 1999
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Sadly, we've had a lot of competition at WR the last 3 years
Jan 20, 2023, 12:51 PM
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I want a few years where this is almost no competition at the starting spot.
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Replies: 50
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