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110%er [7636]
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Dave Clawson and tampering from other schools.
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Aug 11, 2023, 9:29 AM
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Dave went on record saying he had 8 players on his team this year that were offered between $150-500k to transfer. He said he gave them valuation of a Wake degree ($450k) vs a quick dollar. The degree is forever andche saved all 8 players. One of they players had Clawson engaged with every step of the tampering so Dave could see it play by play.
Wish Clawson would have named the schools! But in this NIL tampering world, how could any smaller P5 schools compete and keep their under the radar players they recruit that develop into 5* player. Smaller schools will fall further behind as new TV deals send them further behind.
https://footballscoop.com/news/dave-clawson-we-had-6-8-players-offered-between-150k-and-500k-by-other-schools-to-leave
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Orange Blooded [3229]
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Re: Dave Clawson and tampering from other schools.
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Aug 11, 2023, 9:30 AM
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I've heard several coaches talk about tampering. Until they start naming names and schools doing so it will continue.
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Orange Blooded [2350]
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Re: Dave Clawson and tampering from other schools.
Aug 11, 2023, 11:51 AM
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Can’t name coaches. You would be exiled amongst coaches. Almost everyone does it. Not necessarily saying tampering. But before NIL coaches were handing out bags full of cash (Tennessee). But you don’t really tell because everyone does and you can’t be the one to bring the whole system down. But we know the big abusers. Top two sec schools. I would be willing to bet notre dame tampered to get Hartman. And soon as bama had that awful spring game at qb they brought in a qb form notre dame. I feel like the top 3 in order is UGA, Bama, real USC.
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Legend [19611]
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Well you know it isn't us.***
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Aug 11, 2023, 9:30 AM
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110%er [7636]
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Re: Well you know it isn't us.***
Aug 11, 2023, 9:40 AM
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Very true statement there.
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110%er [8661]
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I hope he eventually names names
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Aug 11, 2023, 9:49 AM
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When those 8 guys are done playing they could publish everything they know without any repercussion. Keep a website that you update periodically with all of the examples of tampering for players that did not end up transferring.
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CU Guru [1537]
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Re: I hope he eventually names names
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Aug 11, 2023, 10:14 AM
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Yeah but players want the tampering to continue bc they will benefit from it. The coaches are the ones who should speak up bc it hurts them
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110%er [8661]
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Those 8 guys didn’t leave so they didn’t take advantage of
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Aug 11, 2023, 11:15 AM
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The tampering to make more money. I assume guys who stay at a school like Wake are against tampering because it weakens their teams and makes it harder to win. The Wake coaches can’t call out guys who leave because it makes them look petty and might be used against them in recruiting. I think they could shout from the top of their lungs about guys who choose to stay at Wake in spite of tampering from other schools.
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All-TigerNet [11220]
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I’m glad he spoke up on this matter, but didn’t he lose his QB
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Aug 11, 2023, 9:51 AM
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To Notre Dame? How is he 8 for 8?
I know Hartman was a grad transfer and already has his coveted Wake Forest Degree but how would we feel if Klubnik transferred to Notre Dane his last year?
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110%er [7636]
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Re: I’m glad he spoke up on this matter, but didn’t he lose his QB
Aug 11, 2023, 9:56 AM
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My guess is since Hartman had already graduated and didn't transfer due to tampering? Just like Tyson transferring to Clemson for final year was not based on money. Hartman probably wanted a school with more exposure as he probably believes he is NFL caliber. This is all just an assumption of course.
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Head Coach [798]
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Re: I’m glad he spoke up on this matter, but didn’t he lose his QB
Aug 11, 2023, 11:36 AM
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I believe Hartman came out and said he went to ND because he made more money doing that than being an Undrafted Free Agent in the NFL. Yes- He gets the exposure of ND as well.
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110%er [7169]
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Hartman to ND makes sense though in terms of marketablity
Aug 11, 2023, 11:39 AM
[ in reply to I’m glad he spoke up on this matter, but didn’t he lose his QB ] |
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and the NFL draft. If ND ends up a top 10 team and he has a solid year he'll shoot up draft boards, at least moreso than being a Wake Forest QB. Its just the way it is. ITs a double edged sword tho, if he goes to ND and doesn't translate then he'll fall.But he's pretty freaking good from what I've seen. I'd imagine he'll light it up over there.
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110%er [8563]
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Re: Dave Clawson and tampering from other schools.
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Aug 11, 2023, 9:51 AM
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Let's say you are a physician at a medium size hospital and get a call from a larger, more prestigious hospital asking you to come work for them. Is that tampering or just how business works? So the question is, since an NIL deal is an agreement between a male or female athlete does that mean that athlete has a fence around them? Since players are allowed to transfer, almost at will, is the so called tampering wrong or is it just free market business that goes on thousands of time every day?
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Orange Blooded [2858]
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It is tampering because the offering "school" or booster is
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Aug 11, 2023, 10:00 AM
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violating a self-governing rule put in place by the organization you (the schools, AKA as the NCAA) chose to be a part of.
There is no tampering in the business world because that rule does not exist.
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CU Guru [1022]
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Re: It is tampering because the offering "school" or booster is
Aug 11, 2023, 5:26 PM
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No, it is t. The SCOTUS NIL rule dud away with it. It's a business deal between the athletes and their sponsors.
If the NCAA tries to get in the way of it again, they're going to get creamed in court again.
Can you say "punitive damages"?
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All-TigerNet [13579]
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Re: Dave Clawson and tampering from other schools.
Aug 11, 2023, 10:08 AM
[ in reply to Re: Dave Clawson and tampering from other schools. ] |
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If free market concepts are applied without restrictions to college athletics (particularly football) then all you will wind up with is the richer and better programs getting the majority of the best talent and reducing the number of relevant programs and conferences to just a few. If that really is the way it is going to be then many schools will have to drop football programs because of a lack of funding/support and inability to drive revenue.
In a way, it almost seems like the NCAA is allowing that to happen by design because they are doing very little to try and stem that tide. To your point, it feels like we are allowing market dynamics to direct the future direction and structure of college football/athletics.
Things are going to look a whole lot different in just a few short years...
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All-TigerNet [11080]
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Re: Dave Clawson and tampering from other schools.
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Aug 11, 2023, 10:20 AM
[ in reply to Re: Dave Clawson and tampering from other schools. ] |
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At least in your analgy the business world medium sized hospital, would have a chance to counter offer the new salary offer. Many college NIL collectives cannot even attempt to match some NIL offers from schools with high numbers of alumni or are in large commercial markets.
Comparing college athletes and business professionals is more like comparing apple juice to cran-apple juice. Similar but not really.
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Legend [17111]
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Varsity [205]
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Re: Dave Clawson and tampering from other schools.
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Aug 11, 2023, 10:29 AM
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Those players have the right to benefit from their talent and NIL. If coaches start calling out other teams for “tampering”, aka recruiting, then they are actively trying to decrease and limit that player’s opportunities.
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110%er [7636]
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Re: Dave Clawson and tampering from other schools.
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Aug 11, 2023, 10:36 AM
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Never supposed to have been a bidding war! It was supposed to allow "student-athletes" an opportunity to make money while playing for the school they committed to. Never ever supposed to send monetary offers to existing players from a different to entice them to transfer.
Your statement is exactly what is wrong with where we are today. If they want free market sports, then start a minor league and let those players that want an education to go to college to play. This new era in university sports cannot continue in this new trajectory.
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Varsity [205]
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Re: Dave Clawson and tampering from other schools.
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Aug 11, 2023, 12:21 PM
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Bidding wars are not new. The transfer portal is. I think for most it creates opportunity. For some it may be going to a lower level for playing time. Others it may be to go from a school like Wake forest to a more prestigious program. Or just to simply cash in. And that is ok.
I don’t think it’s ok for a coach to try and block their players from this opportunity.
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CU Guru [1022]
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Trajectory? Wrong. It can, and it will.
Aug 11, 2023, 5:28 PM
[ in reply to Re: Dave Clawson and tampering from other schools. ] |
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There is a finite stockpile of top quality athletes. The rich may get richer, but even the rich don't have enough roster spots to kick down all of the best players.
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110%er [7199]
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Re: Dave Clawson and tampering from other schools.
Aug 11, 2023, 6:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: Dave Clawson and tampering from other schools. ] |
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Never supposed to have been a bidding war! It was supposed to allow "student-athletes" an opportunity to make money while playing for the school they committed to. Never ever supposed to send monetary offers to existing players from a different to entice them to transfer.
Your statement is exactly what is wrong with where we are today. If they want free market sports, then start a minor league and let those players that want an education to go to college to play. This new era in university sports cannot continue in this new trajectory.
I agree with this 100%.
The line in the sand being: "targeting other people's players"!
Much different in my opinion than a kid who is betting on themselves to maybe start somewhere else or going in the portal because they believe they are just better than where they currently play.
It's the pro-sports: Restricted free agent versus Unrestricted free agent of college.
Restricted would be any player on my roster who has not entered the portal, period.
Unrestricted is a player who entered the portal.
In pro sports - a heavy and severe fine is levied for tampering with other people's players.
Reading through the comments; some people are "grouping all this together" and it's basically a separate issue. Especially ones that can be proven. I.E. = "my 8 players were not in the portal yet they were approached"!
That's wrong! And, needs some type of oversight to stop or at least deter the behavior.
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All-TigerNet [13579]
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Re: Dave Clawson and tampering from other schools.
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Aug 11, 2023, 10:48 AM
[ in reply to Re: Dave Clawson and tampering from other schools. ] |
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So, your answer is to just let free agency run amok and allow them to go wherever and whenever? In that scenario, only the strong and rich survive and everyone else shuts down.
You said "tampering" = "recruiting". If that were the case then why do the schools use third parties to intervene and engage with players instead of having direct contact? The answer is because they know it is tampering and not recruiting.
Message was edited by: slwcu79®
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Varsity [205]
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Re: Dave Clawson and tampering from other schools.
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Aug 11, 2023, 12:27 PM
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The rules are what they are. I don’t really consider it tampering if it’s not against the rules. Should Jared verse have to play at Albany college instead of FSU? No, he earned whatever money he got and the opportunity to play at FSU.
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CU Guru [1022]
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Hall of Famer [21618]
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Schools should lose eligibility for tampering. NIL has
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Aug 11, 2023, 10:31 AM
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been an unmitigated disaster.
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All-TigerNet [10511]
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College football is lawless.***
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Aug 11, 2023, 10:45 AM
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All-TigerNet [13579]
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Re: College football is lawless.***
Aug 11, 2023, 10:50 AM
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We have rules; they are just not enforced...
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Hall of Famer [20005]
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Re: College football is lawless.***
Aug 11, 2023, 11:00 AM
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Sounds like my HOA at the beach
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Orange Blooded [3413]
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Only way things are gonna change in this regard is if coaches/players
Aug 11, 2023, 11:00 AM
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Start producing evidence of these things taking place. That's only thing that's gonna give the NCAA any semblance of a bite to do something about it.
Only issue I think is preventing that would be 'gentleman's code' among coaches & the perception among fans for snitching. Reason why Fulmer is so reviled is b/c he ratted out Alabama to save his backside when NCAA had Tennessee in their crosshairs
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Orange Blooded [4034]
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Re: Dave Clawson and tampering from other schools.
Aug 11, 2023, 11:33 AM
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I believe it happens, but I have a hard time believing people like Clawson. If you know the names, then stop whining and spill the beans.
Honestly, it should be like the honor code. Don’t cheat and don’t tolerate others that cheat
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All-In [31392]
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Re: Dave Clawson and tampering from other schools.
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Aug 11, 2023, 11:41 AM
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I believe Clawson to be one of the good guys. Have never heard an interview that I thought was out of the way or anything negative on how he runs his program… seemed numerous coaches including Saban and Kiffin have brought this up without naming any names. Now the why they don’t I fail to understand.
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Orange Blooded [3353]
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Re: Dave Clawson and tampering from other schools.
Aug 11, 2023, 12:44 PM
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I'm confused. Is that $450K per year, for four years, or over a career? $450K per year seems high for a new college grad and over a career seems low. He must either mean it's total salary over 4 years, or he's saying Wake grads make $450K more than the average college grad over a career.
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Orange Blooded [2951]
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Re: Dave Clawson and tampering from other schools.
Aug 11, 2023, 4:56 PM
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I think he meant that as the cost of a Wake Forest education. Base tuition at WF is about $60K per year plus room and board and books and all that stuff. $450K may be a little high but if a player stays 5 years it's not too far off.
A 4-5 year scholarship to Standford is worth about half a million dollars.
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Athletic Dir [864]
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Re: Dave Clawson and tampering from other schools.
Aug 11, 2023, 4:20 PM
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Smaller schools can't compete. They killed the goose which laid the golden egg.
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CU Guru [1022]
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It's not tampering. It's a job offer.
Aug 11, 2023, 4:45 PM
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It happens all the time in business.
College football is the business.
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Oculus Spirit [77312]
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I wish these coaches would just start exposing these
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Aug 11, 2023, 6:52 PM
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programs when they do it.
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110%er [7199]
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They Will: "sooner or later"! Out the door; but they will
Aug 11, 2023, 6:56 PM
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It may be after some of these coaches have gotten the boot; because their rosters get raided. But, I fully expect some folks to be caught red-handed.
And, I can anticipate somebody going, "Caught red-handed doing what"?
Tampering, that's what!
If there are no rules; after enough of these stories break with good solid evidence - I would guess you would start to see action to get it reined in.
A kid who just wants to leave - No Problem.
A kid being lured away; who otherwise is happy where they are - Problem!
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