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Oculus Spirit [75141]
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What do you think is the real situation?
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Jul 1, 2024, 8:56 AM
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Clemson and FSU have made their intentions clear when it comes to leaving the ACC. As such, stories abound about how the SEC really doesn't want Clemson, and the BIG may not want Clemson, either. And yet, some of those same stories talk about how either, or both of those conferences MAY want North Carolina, or VIRGINIA, for heaven's sake.
So, what do you think the real situation would be, if Clemson suddenly is able to strike a deal with the ACC and exit? I have no insider information, but the idea that Clemson could be stuck as an independent is financial Armageddon. The SEC is completely morally bankrupt, but geographically, it makes by far the most sense for us. But, we have to be invited. The BIG would be logistically more challenging, but again, we have to be invited. Big12? To me, that would just be trading one ACC for another one, no thanks.
So, what do you Los Gurus think happens? What is our Final Destination, and hope it is not like the horror movie of the same name? Give me what you think WILL happen, not what you WANT to have happen.
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All-In [29751]
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Re: What do you think is the real situation?
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Jul 1, 2024, 9:12 AM
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Clemson FSU UNC UVA
TO SEC.
ND MIAMI
TO BIG.
LOUISVILLE GT DUKE NCSU VT BC
TO BIG 12.
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Associate AD [839]
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Re: What do you think is the real situation?
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Jul 1, 2024, 9:17 AM
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I’d be surprised if Va. and Va. Tech split up.
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CU Guru [1813]
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Re: What do you think is the real situation?
Jul 1, 2024, 2:47 PM
[ in reply to Re: What do you think is the real situation? ] |
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If the deal suddenly happened (as in the next 90 days), we would likely still be in the ACC for the 2025 season.
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110%er [5966]
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Re: What do you think is the real situation?
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Jul 1, 2024, 9:15 AM
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There’s no conference on the planet that wouldn’t take clemson. The premiere league British football would take clemson. The nfl would take clemson. The nba would sign a g league contract with clemson. FSU is another story.
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Orange Blooded [3798]
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I do not believe this - college football is clearly PROFESSIONAL FOR-PROFIT
Jul 6, 2024, 1:55 AM
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Dabo is MORALLY ABOVE the present free-for-all, money-grab that defines college football.
Hate Saban as you may, but Saban walked away from college football for the morally bereft conditions that we are presently witnessing.
I personally admire Saban for what he did.
I have ENORMOUS difficulty accepting the present state of college football, so much so that I WANT Clemson to WALK AWAY from this corrupt environment.
The SEC and BIG would gladly accept Clemson due to Clemson’s “prominence”, “reputation”, “popularity”, “market draw”?? Seriously??
Get a grip. Look around at what college football has become. This is purely about MONEY. NOTHING ELSE!
Clemson’s market value, while in a lower echelon of the Top 20 in market attractiveness, or whatever metric was recently measured is TOO SMALL and INSIGNIFICANT to “force” the SEC or BIG to accept Clemson. First, the BIG is NOT going to break with their precious AAU accreditation to accept a new geographically remote institution. This AAU accreditation is the BIG’s MORAL CRUTCH that soothes and comforts the BIG’s respective members that they maintain a MORAL SUPERIORITY as educational institutions of higher learning in the face of their FINANCIAL DEBAUCHERY.
While we here at Tigernet have effectively extremely limited inside knowledge, we know one thing for sure, and it is this: CLEMSON NEEDS A LOT MORE MONEY to try to maintain even a semblance of pace with the SEC and BIG and getting out of the ACC is the FIRST STEP in the process of TREADING WATER instead of immediately SINKING.
However, I do NOT think this will work, and Dabo is too committed to the VALUES he built Clemson football upon to dirty himself TOO MUCH more than he has already done to himself.
I do NOT think that Clemson has some mythical “landing spot” in the SEC, much less the BIG. IMHO, none of this ends well for Clemson football. I think Dabo will see what Saban saw. It is just going to take CDS another year to see it clearly.
My prediction: Clemson MOVES DOWN to “Division II” football, where college athletics still resembles the original college model.
I’ve always maintained over the past three (3) years, that Clemson is just NOT able to financially compete with this new PROFESSIONAL LEAGUE. There is plenty of money available in the budget for facilities and competive coaching salaries, but these expenses PALE in comparison to an entire $30M/year (probably closer to $50M/year when this is all said and done with new revenue sharing lawsuits that are already being filed) roster payroll.
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Orange Blooded [3798]
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Sustaining ticket prices will have to approach NFL ticket prices
Jul 6, 2024, 2:34 AM
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![IMG-1380](https://i.ibb.co/q1Tyc6w/IMG-1380.jpg)
IF Clemson had the chance to play in the new professional league, price-per-game tickets would have to be in the $700-$900 range.
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Oculus Spirit [98279]
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Clemson would not be taking these steps
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Jul 1, 2024, 9:24 AM
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if we hadn't already been assured of a landing spot.
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Oculus Spirit [75141]
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I keep hoping that is the case, and the SEC saying they don't want us turns out
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Jul 1, 2024, 9:26 AM
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to be just like Nick Saban saying he was not going to be the next coach at Alabama.
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Orange Blooded [3555]
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Re: I keep hoping that is the case, and the SEC saying they don't want us turns out
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Jul 1, 2024, 12:41 PM
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Who at the SEC has said they didn't want Clemson?
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Legend [18710]
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Mainly BIG 12 podcasters
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Jul 1, 2024, 12:56 PM
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Who at the SEC has said they didn't want Clemson?
who are playing with their own deck of cards. Slive is not making any definitive statements that I've seen.
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110%er [5124]
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I would hope Slive isn't making any statements
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Jul 2, 2024, 6:51 AM
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he's been dead for like 6 years.
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110%er [7391]
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Orange Blooded [3798]
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Associate AD [832]
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Re: Word would already have LEAKED out - as of now - CRICKETS
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Jul 6, 2024, 6:49 AM
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Nothing leaked on OU and TX when they went SEC.
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Orange Blooded [4095]
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Re: Clemson would not be taking these steps
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Jul 1, 2024, 7:08 PM
[ in reply to Clemson would not be taking these steps ] |
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Exactly. Back room talks have already happened. We have a destination.
Provided we can find a way out of the ACC.
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Legend [16486]
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Oculus Spirit [98279]
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I have no inside knowledge. You think our administrators are that
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Jul 2, 2024, 8:22 AM
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irresponsible, or just plain outright ignorant?
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Legend [16486]
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Is that a yes or a no on the assumption?***
Jul 2, 2024, 4:30 PM
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Oculus Spirit [98279]
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I said I had no inside knowledge...
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Jul 3, 2024, 4:05 PM
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but then again, reading comprehension isn't one of your strong points.
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Legend [16486]
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So that's a yes then?***
Jul 5, 2024, 1:16 AM
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Athletic Dir [876]
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CU Guru [1110]
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Orange Blooded [3798]
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I do not believe this - I think CUs ACC-exit attempt is purely from a position
Jul 6, 2024, 2:03 AM
[ in reply to Clemson would not be taking these steps ] |
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…of DESPERATION, nothing else.
We would have had heard A LOT more through the grapevine, because when there is as many people involved in all of this stuff as there is, people can’t keep their mouths shut, e.g., SCOTUS Dobbs decision is a perfect example.
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Walk-On [137]
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Re: What do you think is the real situation?
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Jul 1, 2024, 9:25 AM
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I have been reading/hearing from podcasters some are relevant while others are not that SEC Sankey wants new footprints like UNC ( State of NC ) and UVA ( State of Virginia ) while ESPN wants FSU and Clemson ( top 2 football viewership/eyeballs watched programs ) in the SEC. With what Josh Pate said Sunday night things should get interesting in July. I am personally thinking FSU and the ACC have come to a settlement that will affect Clemson and some other schools who want out of ACC. A controlled revamped/reconfigured ACC probably comes out at the same time.
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Oculus Spirit [75141]
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Sankey and the SEC cannot really be stupid enough to think that anyone in
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Jul 1, 2024, 9:28 AM
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North Carolina or Virginia actually gives two chits about those two schools. They can't even fill a football stadium, much less a tv market.
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110%er [6796]
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We will be in SEC or BIG, once we or FSU announce one or the other will take us
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Jul 1, 2024, 9:33 AM
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No way either leave us out to dry, you just wouldnt pass on 2 commodities like us and FSU that are there for the taking. IMO we or FSU would not announce until there is some sort of silent handshake deal because it just doesnt make sense to leave the ACC without a destination pretty much in place. It would be suicide and I just dont see that as even a possibility. The SEC and BIG have to maintain publicly they arent interested in us due to tampering rules and it does not benefit them to announce interest beforehand. ####, maybe they arent interested in us NOW as in jumping through hoops to snag us away, but maybe that interest level changes when we are officially on the market.
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Hall of Famer [24581]
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I think the REAL situation is this.
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Jul 1, 2024, 9:37 AM
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FSU and Clemson are doing due diligence in going to court to put more pressure on the ACC. But, the REAL negotiations are between Fox and ESPN deciding how they will expand the B1G and SEC. 1. How big will each conference be? 2. Which teams will end up in which conference? 3. How are we gonna handle the ND/NBC situation? 4. How are we (ESPN) going to handle the ACC contract?
I think the P2 conference commissioners are involved in the discussions. I think representatives from FSU, Clemson, UNC and other schools are also involved.
But, it is ESPN and Fox with the money. And, money drives the train.
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All-In [27637]
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Re: I think the REAL situation is this.
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Jul 1, 2024, 9:47 AM
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BIG or nothing.
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Varsity [206]
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Since ESPN owns TV rights to both the SEC and the ACC...
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Jul 1, 2024, 10:18 AM
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that seems like the path of least resistance - simply agree to extend the current ACC TV deal for another few years AND don't reduce the agreed per school payout.
No damages for the ACC to claim at that point -- Clemson and FSU take a 3/4 share from the SEC for a few years and then get bumped to full share (ESPN retains that 1/4 share payout for all their trouble of negotiating the deal -- smh) oh and the SEC agrees to play 9 conf games to get more money from ESPN (which increases the per school payout for all members).
Where's the rub?
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CU Guru [1110]
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Re: What do you think is the real situation?
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Jul 1, 2024, 11:37 AM
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The final destination is nowhere. The lawsuits will be unsuccessful.
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CU Guru [1011]
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Re: What do you think is the real situation?
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Jul 1, 2024, 2:39 PM
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Yep...did you sign this, were you drunk when you signed both of these...if these contracts are a fraud when did You know? When should you have known? You were depositing checks from the ACC for these deals for how many years? Were the signers of these deals major employees of your institution and did your legal staff OK these?...is the ACC, ESPN & Swofford filing defamation suits against your institution and the university sponsored websites? End of Case...let's go have a cold one!
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Oculus Spirit [98279]
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At least you logged out of your tdqtiger account before replying***
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Jul 1, 2024, 3:07 PM
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Orange Blooded [4095]
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Orange Blooded [4572]
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110%er [5784]
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Re: What do you think is the real situation?
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Jul 1, 2024, 12:38 PM
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I agree with everything you surmised.
Honestly, your guess is as good as mine at this point. I suspect Clemson and FSU have at least one, if not multiple options. Suing the ACC was the necessary 1st step in the grande scheme. Reading the Tea Leaves if I had to guess here's what I think will happen:
1) Clemson is worth more to FOX than they are to ESPN. I.e. it sounds like the networks are calling the shots and I think FOX will pay more $ to the BIG for Clemson than ESPN.
2) I don't buy that ESPN doesn't see value in Clemson joining the SEC. I also don't think the SEC is keen on BIG teams playing home games at Clemson or FSU and gaining a foothold in the Southeast television, and recruiting markets. Adding Clemson to Fox's BIG television package would be a boon to BIG viewership and revenue. All of the sudden people from the southeast are watching BIG games and vice versa.
3) I think Clemson and FSU end up in the BIG because they add more $$$ to FOX than they do to ESPN. That being said, I could see a last-minute push by ESPN to keep Clemson and FSU in the southeast by adding them to the SEC. In the end we add value$$$ to either conference, and although the SEC is the natural fit and would be better for fans, the almighty $ will dictate where we ultimately land.
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Legend [18710]
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Re: What do you think is the real situation?
Jul 1, 2024, 12:52 PM
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1) SEC and B1G commissioners and Clemson BOT/AD are much better poker players than Tnet. A B1G or SEC slot will be open when (and not until) Clemson has a clear path out of ACC. This means buyout clearance from designated legal jurisdiction and network/conference. 2) B1G would reportedly prefer Notre Dame, TX A&M, and maybe UNC (along with FSU) before Clemson due to demographics and money. ND not ready to sign. TX A&M unlikely to leave SEC. UNC has internal politics and is not ready (and may have NCSU baggage). 3) SEC will consider their options based on B1G's next steps. Collusion between SEC and BIG? Probably. When FSU jumps (likely to B1G), the B1G will seek a second addition. Likely Clemson. Then SEC has to counteroffer or punt.
That's my take from lots of reading and viewing. Latest from Josh Pate says something will happen with FSU in July.
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Oculus Spirit [75141]
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I have seen A&M's name bandied about more than once as a target for the BIG.
Jul 1, 2024, 6:41 PM
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Why does anyone think they would bolt the SEC for the BIG? If anyone should NOT be hurting for money, it is the Texas Oil Barons.
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Legend [18365]
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Re: I have seen A&M's name bandied about more than once as a target for the BIG.
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Jul 1, 2024, 11:21 PM
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I think that aTm keeps getting mentioned for B1G not because of money but because they don't want to be in a conference with big brother Texas. They joined the SEC to get away from Texas ruling the roost in the Big XII and are none too happy to have Texas becoming their overlord again. I have no idea if aTm would really bolt from the SEC but that is the narrative for those suggesting they may leave the SEC.
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All-TigerNet [11360]
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Re: What do you think is the real situation?
Jul 1, 2024, 7:26 PM
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I am convinced that under the right leadership that the ACC could be on close to equal footing with the SEC and Big. Of course the operative term is "right leadership". When you look at the schools in the conference, there is no reason that we should not be equal. Of course there is the broadcasting rights, and the resulting money, but at some point, someone really smart should have been ahead of the curve instead of asleep at the wheel like Swofford. It seems like our broadcasting partners could have been more helpful in figuring out a way to make us competitive financially, but I feel sure they knew they had us over a barrel. Really a lose lose if the conference falls apart.
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Trainer [47]
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Re: What do you think is the real situation?
Jul 2, 2024, 8:44 AM
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At one point, it could have been. In my opinion, we're way passed that point. The SEC and B1G are an avalanche rolling down the mountain picking up speed. They've passed the ACC by and we have NO hope of catching up. There are no teams left that the ACC could poach that would increase the ACC's value.
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Orange Blooded [2158]
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Re: What do you think is the real situation?
Jul 2, 2024, 4:46 PM
[ in reply to Re: What do you think is the real situation? ] |
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To me we didn't even need to expand as a conference to be on equal footing. Miami and VA Tech playing football on par with Florida St and us would make quite a powerful football conference. UNC getting better at football only helps. After that the other teams could be good or bad doesn't really even matter-same as $EC and BIG. Actually better than BIG with 4 prominent football teams. After all wasn't that what UM and VPI brought in to do?
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Legend [17411]
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Ours and FSU's lawsuits are different, right?
Jul 1, 2024, 7:47 PM
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FSU is suing to leaving without penalty. Ours is not a suit to leave but instead a damages-oriented suit claiming the league has degraded our market value by stating unequivocably that we are locked in to the ACC until 2036. Our lawsuit is requesting the receipts to that stance be presented as we have greener pasture options that are being hampered, weakening our position.
FSU - We want out without the financial burden Clemson - You are financially burdening us and we want proof that you are allowed to do so
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All-In [25721]
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I don't believe UNC will make any move unless NC State is
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Jul 2, 2024, 6:00 AM
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guaranteed parity due to the structure of the N.C. collegiate system.
It's somewhat a matter of the state looking out for both, much as Virginia did for VT during the ACC expansion. The Virginia Governor along with prominent politicians leveled a major threat, involving UVA, that in effect demanded that VT got an ACC invitation. Despite feelings toward WVU, I believed they got a raw deal being left out when their main rival, Pitt, received an invitation. WVU had no one in their corner, which to me reeked of an effete elitism among the ACC members. Then, what happens? Maryland withdraws and Louisville gets an invitation, and I say that without any disparagenent against the Cards: they are good people. I blame Swofford directly for a lack of agressiveness with the expansion.
Now, I understand all this crap about TV viewership. But I repeat a contention I have made all along: it would be sheer stupidity for the SEC to sit idly and allow two programs like Clemson and FSU be gobbled up by the B1G...no different than the US of A allowing Russia to establish missile bases in Mexico or Canada, for God's Sake! Do they really want B1G schools playing sports, particularly football, all year long in the South? Do they want to watch the B1G take advantage of the southern inroads in recruiting? Only a numbnutted nonsensical nimwit would entertain those kinds of thoughts. Ask yourselves which would attract the greatest national audience: UNC vs UGA or Clemson vs UGA? UNC vs LSU or FSU vs LSU? There would be no contest...period!
I have believed from the onset that both Clemson and FSU entered the lawsuits ONLY because there had been behind-the-scenes' discussions with the SEC and B1G. And I believe the most successful of those chitchats were with people with Southern drawls.
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110%er [5356]
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Clemson SEC . Florida State SEC
Jul 5, 2024, 8:47 PM
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the B1G no changes
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Walk-On [137]
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Re: What do you think is the real situation?
Jul 6, 2024, 1:00 AM
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Sankey SEC Commish wants new footprint North Carolina ( UNC ) and Virginia ( UVA ) ESPN wants Clemson and FSU in the SEC they have no objections with UNC and UVA. This was stated by a reliable college football analyst couple months ago.
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Legend [15262]
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Re: What do you think is the real situation?
Jul 6, 2024, 5:45 AM
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I think it’s not as complicated as people make it. If the GOR ruling goes in our favor, we pay the exit fee, and we will find a home outside the ACC. If the ruling goes the ACC way, we are probably stuck, due to cost, until the next major college football reorganization.
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Athletic Dir [882]
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Re: What do you think is the real situation?
Jul 6, 2024, 6:04 AM
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The BigXII is not a lateral move.
The biggest selling point for the BigXII is that their membership is not required to sign a 10 plus year contract to be in the conference.
It is a matter of time before a venture capitalist comes along and plucks the most profitable teams from the SEC and Big Ten (while leaving unprofitable teams behind). It will be easy to do because those conferences don’t have contracts and the AD’s want more money.
Hopefully Clemson is not tied into a contract with the ACC when that happens.
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