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Hall of Famer [23636]
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Is this a problem for Trump's base?
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Jul 5, 2024, 11:51 PM
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Or is it just more fake news from the Washington Post?
If the Republican Party changed it's platform plank on abortion to read something akin to, "Each state should have the authority to determine what, if any, restrictions should be placed on abortions" would that help or hurt Trump in November?
Just curious what y'all think. For the record, I am strongly pro-life and I don't think taking the life of an unborn, much less newborn, human should be a states rights issue.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ar-BB1psdCW
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Team Captain [492]
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Trump could say he fully supports abortions into the
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Jul 5, 2024, 11:57 PM
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third trimester and his base would agree and say they supported that too. There is no party policy anymore, it’s just blind loyalty and support of Trump. They will fully support whatever he says without question.
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Hall of Famer [23636]
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Trump has publicly stated that he thinks...
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Jul 6, 2024, 12:03 AM
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... each state should have the right to determine what the abortion law is in that particular state. He has publicly stated the federal government should not be involved in writing abortion laws.
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110%er [7057]
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Re: Trump has publicly stated that he thinks...
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Jul 6, 2024, 12:08 AM
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He just wants to win. He doesn't really care about the issue.
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Hall of Famer [23636]
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My thoughts, exactly.***
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Jul 6, 2024, 8:09 AM
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All-TigerNet [14068]
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110%er [7057]
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Re: A president caring about this issue is a waste of time.***
Jul 6, 2024, 1:06 PM
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Not really.
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Athletic Dir [879]
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Legend [18159]
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Team Captain [492]
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And yet if a federal ban comes across his desk from
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Jul 6, 2024, 9:23 AM
[ in reply to Trump has publicly stated that he thinks... ] |
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Congress he will sign it in a heartbeat. He has not true principles, he just says what he thinks will help him in the moment. He tried to ban TikTok as president, but as soon as a TikTok exec offered him a big campaign donation, he came out in full support of it.
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CU Guru [1719]
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Re: And yet if a federal ban comes across his desk from
Jul 6, 2024, 10:12 AM
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That’s an example of using leverage to advance your position. Good business strategy.
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Team Captain [492]
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He has no position, he just goes along with whatever
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Jul 6, 2024, 12:12 PM
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will lead to more money or more power for himself.
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110%er [8185]
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Re: Is this a problem for Trump's base?
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Jul 6, 2024, 12:16 AM
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The entire reason for the overturning of RvW was the un-Constitutiinality of the federal government dictating abortion policy to the states.
Trump’s statements reflect what the SC had ruled.
BTW, Ruth Bader Ginsberg was among the SCOTUS justices who was honest enough to agree that RvW was un-Constitutional, but not honorable enough to live up to her swearing-in vow to ‘protect the Constitution,’ she voted to sustain RvW as the law of the land.
Trump, unlike other politicians who publicly flaunt American laws for political advantage, has spoken in support of the Constitutiinal right epic each state to set its own laws with respect to abortion.
Do Americans REALLY support America’s system of laws that are the foundation of our society? If so, then Americans will agree categorically with Trump’s statement.
(*). If Congress can devise a ‘national’ abortion law that passes Constitutional muster, then a different version of RvW may come into existence. I don’t expect any such thing to happen in my lifetime unless there is an internal coup and our ruling class then makes all decisions without input from ‘regular’ Americans.
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Hall of Famer [23636]
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It is an interesting debate.
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Jul 6, 2024, 8:14 AM
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Should abortion be a states rights issue?
We had a similar debate 160 years ago. The issue was slavery.
We had a similar debate 60 years ago. The issue was segregation.
We had a similar debate 10 years ago. The issue was marriage.
Today, the issue is abortion.
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Athletic Dir [879]
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Re: It is an interesting debate.
Jul 6, 2024, 12:11 PM
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Watch what happens if the court undoes the marriage decision from a few years ago. It was decided on the wrong grounds, because they didn't want to touch "full faith and credit" and Roberts came up with a different reasoning. Once same-sex marriage was legalized in one state, those marriages had to be recognized in every other state under one of the most basic part of the constitution. The arguments just didn't get that far.
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Orange Blooded [2054]
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Re: Is this a problem for Trump's base?
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Jul 6, 2024, 8:37 AM
[ in reply to Re: Is this a problem for Trump's base? ] |
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they don't care about that "constitution thingy" that's always getting in the way of their policies
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Legend [18511]
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My hot take: It does nothing to strengthen his current base
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Jul 6, 2024, 12:48 AM
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People already voting/supporting Trump will not be more inclined or less inclined if this becomes part of the official platform.
Those not voting for Trump - they will remain just as unlikely.
Those undecided …were they undecided because they thought Trump was/is going to go for a national ban? Are there many voters out there saying to themselves “I’d vote for Trump but he might want to nationalize an abortion ban”?
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Hall of Famer [23636]
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I think I agree with you.
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Jul 6, 2024, 8:19 AM
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The reason I ask is many of my pro-life friends tell me that I have to vote for Trump because he is pro-life and opposed to abortion. They site his statement, "I am the most pro-life president ever."
Now he is publicly stating that abortion should not be an issue in a national election, it is a states rights issue. He is publicly stating that each state has the right to decide on limitations and restrictions.
So, if New York wants to kill an unborn child the moment before birth, then that is OK. It doesn't affect Wyoming.
That is not a pro-life stance at all. It is a pro-choice stance. Each state has the right to choose.
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Orange Blooded [2496]
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You're hijacking what it means to be pro-choice....
Jul 6, 2024, 8:23 AM
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Choice is not a state government telling you that you can't have an abortion. That is not choice in any way whatsoever.
When a woman makes a decision about her medical care in consultation with her doctor, that is choice.
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Hall of Famer [23636]
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Then , I'm pro-choice.
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Jul 6, 2024, 9:19 AM
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I think the child should have the choice.
I don't think the child should be killed without proper legal representation for him.
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Orange Blooded [2496]
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You were talking about "states" right to choose....
Jul 6, 2024, 9:36 AM
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That's not choice, when a state government takes away a woman's reproductive rights.
Are you now backing off from that statement? It's obviously false.
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Hall of Famer [23636]
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I am pro-choice on a lot of issues.
Jul 6, 2024, 12:37 PM
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I am pro-choice on speech. I don't force anyone to speak, but they have the right to choose to speak.
I am pro-choice on gun ownership. I don't own a gun, but if you want to own one, I think you should have the right to choose to do so.
I am pro-choice on education. I think a parent should have the right to choose which school his child attends.
I am not pro-choice on killing an unborn human being without due process.
Individuals can have choice. Local governments can have choice. State governments can have choice.
"Choice" applies to much more than just abortion.
When it comes to posting on tnet, I would assume you are pro-choice.
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Orange Blooded [2496]
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State governments banning abortion is not "choice"....
Jul 6, 2024, 2:44 PM
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That's the most ridiculous classification of the word, "choice" that I've ever heard.
Women have reproductive rights over their own bodies, and the choice should reside with them.
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Hall of Famer [23636]
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Thanks. Can you help me out?
Jul 6, 2024, 6:42 PM
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Can you explain to me the difference between being pro-choice and pro-abortion?
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Orange Blooded [2496]
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Simply, it's up to women to decide what to do with their reproductive rights...
Jul 6, 2024, 9:49 PM
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It's not my business to tell any woman what to do with their body.
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Hall of Famer [23636]
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I assume that is "pro-choice."
Jul 6, 2024, 10:38 PM
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So, what is "pro-abortion"?
I believe you should have the right to own a gun. Does that make me "pro-choice" or "pro-gun"?
I'm just trying to understand why people who believe in the right to an abortion are so opposed to calling themselves "pro-abortion."
Thanks.
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Orange Blooded [2496]
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I am in favor of women's reproductive rights....
Jul 7, 2024, 8:18 AM
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On a personal level, I don't "like" abortion. But I think there are situations where it's necessary, and regardless of what I think, I don't want to tell a woman what to do with her own body. It's not my call. And it shouldn't be the government's call either.
BTW, what is "Pro-Life"? Never understood that term, given the contradictions of many of the people who claim it.
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Orange Blooded [2054]
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Re: You're hijacking what it means to be pro-choice....
Jul 6, 2024, 9:23 AM
[ in reply to You're hijacking what it means to be pro-choice.... ] |
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How is abortion about "medical care"?
Love how the left uses bs terms like that.
And the less than 1% who may actually have some real medical issues does not need to control the 99%+
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Orange Blooded [2496]
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What do you mean by "control"?....
Jul 6, 2024, 9:48 AM
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>> And the less than 1% who may actually have some real medical issues does not need to control the 99%+
How are women who need an abortion controlling other people? That makes absolutely no sense.
You want the state to have control over - and to take away the rights - of 100% of women. That's the control you want.
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CU Guru [1719]
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Re: What do you mean by "control"?....
Jul 6, 2024, 10:18 AM
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Killing an unborn child isn’t a right. I’m all for abortions for the health of the mother, rape or incest. I’m okay with abortions less than 6 weeks in. After that it’s just irresponsible and ridiculous.
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Team Captain [492]
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Some abortions to save the life of the mother happen
Jul 6, 2024, 12:17 PM
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in the third trimester. What then? Tough luck?
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CU Guru [1719]
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Re: Some abortions to save the life of the mother happen
Jul 6, 2024, 12:44 PM
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I just said I’m all for abortions in cases of rape, incest, and health of the mother.
That being said, I would gladly sacrifice myself so my baby could live.
But I won’t expect or put that in anyone else.
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Hall of Famer [23636]
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They are controlling the life of the human being...
Jul 6, 2024, 12:38 PM
[ in reply to What do you mean by "control"?.... ] |
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.... who is yet born. How much more controlling can you be?
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110%er [5138]
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Re: I think I agree with you.
Jul 6, 2024, 1:40 PM
[ in reply to I think I agree with you. ] |
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As a Christian American you shoudl give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's. .
Unless you are getting abortions, paying for them and are in favor of them your conscience should be clear.
Paying taxes to a Government that allows abortion and subsidizes the cost is not the same as personally paying for one. You are guiltless.
Trump is adhering to the intent of the Constitution.
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Orange Blooded [2496]
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I don't think anything that Trump says or does is a problem for his base....
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Jul 6, 2024, 7:22 AM
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They're with him no matter what, just like a cult following its leader.
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All-TigerNet [13606]
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Re: I don't think anything that Trump says or does is a problem for his base....
Jul 6, 2024, 8:15 AM
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It doesn’t matter. It is extremely unlikely there will ever be a federal law to deal with abortion to either liberalize or restrict access.
I supported the repeal of Roe v Wade. Some states in my opinion have gone overboard with their attempts to stop abortions such as Idaho and some are not restrictive enough and laws will change over time.
However, for so called conservative Republicans to now want a federal law restricting abortions seems very hypocritical as they railed for years that it should be up to the states.
It won’t hurt Trump with his base. Besides, the alternative is worse if you are Pro life.
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Hall of Famer [23636]
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I think I agree with you.
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Jul 6, 2024, 8:24 AM
[ in reply to I don't think anything that Trump says or does is a problem for his base.... ] |
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Trump has amassed, seemingly, a following that will figure out a way to agree with him no matter what he says. If that is what you call a cult, I agree.
Before Trump, I didn't notice that nearly as much as I do now.
Just like Democrats have amassed a following that will figure out a way to agree with them no matter what they say. In the south they used to be called "yellow dog Democrats." (I'd vote for a yellow dog if he was a Democrat.) So, if that is what you call a cult, I think it is clear that politics is now becoming cultish.
I will follow the lead of my leader, wherever he leads.
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Orange Blooded [2496]
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You have a point. But.....
Jul 6, 2024, 9:10 AM
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On the left, I don't see anything remotely similar in size & scope to the MAGA cult.
The closest was maybe Bernie's group at some point. But they lost in 2016 and in 2020, and are basically a non-entity. They were internally defeated, which is something that Republicans could never do with Trump, even after he tried to overturn an election.
The left has some anti-semitic nuts that are mostly on college campuses. But they aren't capable of a movement that is even 1/100th of MAGA. And even when we look at them, a lot of their hatred is directed at Biden.
I don't see any left-wing or Democratic party allegiance to a politician on any level remotely similar to what we see with Trump.
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Hall of Famer [23636]
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It's not following a particular person.
Jul 6, 2024, 9:22 AM
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That is where the "Trump cult" is different from the "Democrat cult."
Millions of people will blindly follow any Democrat simply because he or she is a Democrat.
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Athletic Dir [879]
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Re: It's not following a particular person.
Jul 6, 2024, 12:19 PM
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Not true. The reason Trumpers follow Trump is that they are either uneducated, racist, or believe some crazy religious BS that he was chosen.
College graduates are majority Democrat now. Advanced and professional degree holders are overwhelmingly Democrat now. People who actually can think "critically," not the MAGA morons who claim to be critical thinkers and don't even understand what that means.
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Hall of Famer [23636]
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In 2012 and 2016 the Democrat platform...
Jul 6, 2024, 12:44 PM
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....defined marriage as the union of one man and one woman. In 2016 the Democrat candidate for POTUS stated her position was "marriage is the sacred union of a man and a woman."
Today Democrats can even define what a woman is other than issuing nonsense such as "a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman."
But, to millions of Democrats it doesn't matter. They will agree with whatever there cult leader at the time tells them to believe.
I am agreeing with you that there are millions of Trump supporters who will agree with anything he says. I'm merely pointing out that street runs with two lanes.
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Athletic Dir [879]
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Re: In 2012 and 2016 the Democrat platform...
Jul 6, 2024, 6:02 PM
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The Republican party is now overwhelmingly filled with trash that came with Trump, but many were on there way ever since Nixon started attracting the racists with his Southern Strategy. There are still decent Republicans, but they aren't voting for Trump.
Your "cult" projection is just delusional. Democrats aren't organized enough to have any person tell them what to believe. It's a thousand factions that are basically united by being against trash like Trump. You've fallen for all that australian propaganda.
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Hall of Famer [23636]
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Democrats appear to be...
Jul 6, 2024, 6:47 PM
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... pro-LGBTQIA++.
Do you know of any mainstream Democrat who is not 100% behind the LGBTQIA++ agenda?
Twenty years ago, no Democrat who was running for office would have supported what they are supporting now.
But, millions of people have switched their positions on those issues because the Democrat Party has switched positions on those issues. "I'm for whatever the Democrat Party is for."
Convince my I'm wrong.
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Athletic Dir [879]
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Re: Democrats appear to be...
Jul 6, 2024, 9:15 PM
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In your crazy dreams, what exactly is the pro-LGBTQIA++ agenda?
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Orange Blooded [2496]
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What is the agenda that bothers you? Explain what you mean by "agenda".***
Jul 6, 2024, 9:56 PM
[ in reply to Democrats appear to be... ] |
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All-In [25912]
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Re: You have a point. But.....
Jul 6, 2024, 3:09 PM
[ in reply to You have a point. But..... ] |
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There was definitely a type of cult like following from a large number of people (particularly pop culture/mass media) for Obama. It's similar to Trump's cult like following, just from a different group of people.
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110%er [7057]
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All-TigerNet [12816]
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Re: I don't think anything that Trump says or does is a problem for his base....
Jul 6, 2024, 8:34 AM
[ in reply to I don't think anything that Trump says or does is a problem for his base.... ] |
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And you're with Biden if he is in a coma, a corpse or as one of you Democrat cultist on here said, I'd vote for Biden's colostomy bag. Now that is cultist. There is shade on each sides of a tree at different times of the day. Maybe there are people that would vote for Trump because there is NO WAY they vote for Biden.
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Team Captain [492]
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Wrong. Those people would just as soon ditch Biden
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Jul 6, 2024, 9:29 AM
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for another Dem. They are just voting for whichever Dem is running against Trump. Your are confusing pro-Biden with anti-Trump. Big difference. No one worships Biden, while you and many other Republicans worship convicted felon Donald Trump. If Biden shoots someone, he would no longer be the nominee. If convicted felon Trump shot someone, Republicans would cheer him on. He said so himself.
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Hall of Famer [23636]
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I agree with you.
Jul 6, 2024, 12:45 PM
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Democrats don't worship Biden specifically. They worship the Democrat Party.
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Orange Blooded [2496]
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I don't see that at all....
Jul 6, 2024, 4:31 PM
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The Dems are a collection of groups with different issues or interests that are important to them. They are not worshipful of any party or person. These different groups just see the Democratic party as the way to push their issue or special-interests forward. That's not worship. That's not a cult. This is why it's harder to keep the Dems together on any specific item. They have too many groups pulling in different directions.
In a sense, Democrats are a normal political party. If you were to compare Dems to, say, a political party in Europe, they might be similar to what is seen as center-right in Europe (not far-right, but center-right).
The Pubs prior to 2016 were not a cult. They have since become a cult.
There is a huge difference in the parties right now.
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Orange Blooded [2054]
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Re: I don't think anything that Trump says or does is a problem for his base....
Jul 6, 2024, 9:26 AM
[ in reply to I don't think anything that Trump says or does is a problem for his base.... ] |
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LOL, largest worldwide "cult" ever
Think you may need to read up on the definition of a cult -
a relatively small group of people having beliefs or practices, especially relating to religion, that are regarded by others as strange or sinister or as imposing excessive control over members:
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All-TigerNet [14068]
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State issue; period.
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Jul 6, 2024, 8:09 AM
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Selecting presidents based on abortion is a gross miscalculation. And about 90% off all other issues.
The federal govt should be the smallest govt in our country.
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CU Medallion [57679]
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Dobbs was the definition of Pyrrhic Victory.
Jul 6, 2024, 9:17 AM
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The GOP can no longer count on mindless religious voters voting GOP just to save babies while the Dems can use abortion to rally the troops.
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All-TigerNet [13606]
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Re: Dobbs was the definition of Pyrrhic Victory.
Jul 6, 2024, 9:33 AM
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Voting Pro life or Pro choice for President at this point is dumb.
No Democrat President and no Republican President will alter abortion laws at all.
Governors and state legislators are where the action is. Period. The end.
This should not be a national issue.
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Orange Blooded [2496]
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Well, I used to think that way until Trump....
3
Jul 6, 2024, 9:43 AM
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The reason that tens of millions of women have had their reproductive rights ended is because Trump was elected President, and he packed the court with anti-choice justices.
So, the 2016 election is why Roe V Wade was overturned, and resulted in millions of women losing their rights.
Given the above, I think it's very important that people examine the abortion views of a Presidential candidate, as well as a potential congressman/senator. The issue is currently at the state level, but it can be nationalized again.
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CU Medallion [57679]
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^^^this^^^ its the reason there was no Red Wave in 2022.
Jul 6, 2024, 10:08 AM
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Dem voters and independents who favor abortion rights will not forget how it started.
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All-In [25912]
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Re: Well, I used to think that way until Trump....
Jul 6, 2024, 1:00 PM
[ in reply to Well, I used to think that way until Trump.... ] |
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Absolutely, if a person thinks it's ok to stop a heart beat for birth control, that should be taken into account when considering that person's morality.
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110%er [7057]
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Re: Well, I used to think that way until Trump....
Jul 6, 2024, 3:02 PM
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Ummm no. Nice try though.
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All-In [25912]
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Re: Well, I used to think that way until Trump....
Jul 6, 2024, 3:12 PM
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Ummm yes
But, it's no surprise that you and I have a different set of morals.
Message was edited by: p6fuller®
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110%er [5077]
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Re: Is this a problem for Trump's base?
Jul 6, 2024, 10:16 AM
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I agree with it being up to the states to decide. I'm not in favor of a national ban or any kind of national restriction. Abortion, however, isn't any kind of issue for me at all so what he thinks about it means nothing to me personally.
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Hall of Famer [22737]
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Of course. It is a problem for his base and for the Republican party as a whole
Jul 6, 2024, 10:53 AM
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They believe they are on a mission from God to ban abortion across the country. It is a losing issue in elections, as it should be given their determination to make it so. Trump wants to hide the fact during the election, before showing their true colors should they win.
Voters should have no illusions about what Republicans want to do and will do and vote accordingly.
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All-TigerNet [13606]
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Re: Of course. It is a problem for his base and for the Republican party as a whole
1
Jul 6, 2024, 11:43 AM
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Then the Dems shouldn’t be so quick to do away with the filibuster. I don’t ever see getting 60 100% pro life Republican Senators.
Without that, there will be no federal law limiting abortion in any way if 10 Donald Trump’s are elected.
The same goes for the Dems. Unless a Dem President is elected and the Dems keep the Senate, abolish the filibuster and have the House also, then the Dems aren’t going to change anything either.
If the above does happen, then the issue will ping pong back and forth when the other Party has control of both Houses and the Presidency.
It’s a non federal issue on an intellectual basis, but it is a federal issue on an emotional basis to the advantage of the Dems, which is why they are pushing it. They have little else in their favor currently.
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Orange Blooded [2496]
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Dems have had the Senate for 4 years and haven't done away with the Filibuster..
Jul 6, 2024, 4:25 PM
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Doesn't appear to me that they are in any hurry.
If they're in a hurry, they have a strange way to show it.
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All-TigerNet [13606]
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Re: Dems have had the Senate for 4 years and haven't done away with the Filibuster..
Jul 6, 2024, 7:16 PM
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Doesn't appear to me that they are in any hurry.
If they're in a hurry, they have a strange way to show it.
The only reason it didn't happen was because Sinema and Manchin refused to go along.
Schumer tried to change the rules requiring 60 votes to move a bill forward as "a one time deal" to pass voting rights legislation. That was January 2022.
From there you can be sure other measures would have been pushed.
It wasn't for a lack of trying.
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Hall of Famer [22737]
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It's either naive or disingenuous to pretend that Republicans won't do
Jul 6, 2024, 5:49 PM
[ in reply to Re: Of course. It is a problem for his base and for the Republican party as a whole ] |
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away with the filibuster to pass a national abortion ban. They did it with a small Senate majority with all 52 Republicans choosing to overrule Senate precedent and all 48 Democrats and liberal-leaning independents pushing to keep it, thus allowing Trump to confirm 3 right wing judges who misrepresented their belief in judicial precedent before the Senate.
A national abortion ban will be more of the same. It is funny to hear people suggest that Trump and MAGA will take an intellectual approach to the issue.
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All-TigerNet [14068]
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Joined: 11/2/15
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I will vote for Trump and I am not only pro choice
Jul 6, 2024, 6:16 PM
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I am for mandatory abortions. Trump is also pro choice.
All of you dem squealers have now become the party of:
“But Trump will be a a dictator”
“Trump will ban abortion”
“Trump will kill political rivals”
lol, do you know how absurd you sound? And you’re the “intellectuals”? Don’t forget that Trump was president already; did any of that happen. No.
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Hall of Famer [22737]
TigerPulse: 99%
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You don't know how ignorant you sound.
Jul 6, 2024, 6:28 PM
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Of course, lying has become the MO of Trump and cracker nation so maybe it's that.
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All-TigerNet [14068]
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Joined: 11/2/15
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Do you say cracker with a hard R?***
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Jul 6, 2024, 7:33 PM
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110%er [9718]
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Team Captain [492]
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Orange Blooded [2496]
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Joined: 1/7/00
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Trump isn't pro-choice, dumb-a**....
Jul 6, 2024, 9:46 PM
[ in reply to I will vote for Trump and I am not only pro choice ] |
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He put in justices that have removed the right to choose, and now there are millions of women trapped in abortion deserts because of him.
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All-TigerNet [14068]
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Joined: 11/2/15
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RvW was unconstitutional. Why do you hate the constitution?***
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Jul 6, 2024, 9:51 PM
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Orange Blooded [2496]
TigerPulse: 93%
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Joined: 1/7/00
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You're not pro-choice, and neither is Trump. Liar.***
Jul 6, 2024, 9:52 PM
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Hall of Famer [23690]
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All-In [25912]
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Re: Yes. The play:
Jul 6, 2024, 11:56 PM
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I think we should wait until they're 18.
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