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Top TigerNet [29317]
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Ok. To carry on the topic of the day.
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Nov 11, 2025, 4:20 PM
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Lets also not pretend that there are not 2 sides to this coin.
Are things more expensive, yes.
Have people pretty much forgotten how to have delayed gratification? Yes.
The house I grew up in until the age of 6 was a 3 bedroom 1 bath, 1200 sqft house. I was the youngest of 3 boys, so that is 5 people in 3 bedrooms. We did not do travel ball, We did not have the newest phone that cost over $1k. We had 1 tv... no cable, subscriptions, etc. We didnt have hardly any toys besides GI Joe men that we played outside with almost the whole time. There was no Nintendo switch with $50 dollar games. We almost never went out to eat. We didnt have 5 computers/ipads.
I am just playing devils advocate. Are things more expensive (outside of typical inflation), yes... but most people sure do have a lot of unnecessary extra expenditures now a days, too.
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Top TigerNet [30994]
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Re: Ok. To carry on the topic of the day.
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Nov 11, 2025, 4:25 PM
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My dad had money and we never went out to eat and we had the worst toys of any kids i knew. My Dad didn't believe in toys. He just told us to go outside and play. Just to figure it out. We did go in vacations though skiing and camping though.
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Top TigerNet [29317]
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My dad was a chemical engineer.
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Nov 11, 2025, 4:27 PM
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Clearly he made decent, but we just lived differently then nowadays. Honestly, I am trying to instill a lot of that in my kids.
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Top TigerNet [30994]
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Re: My dad was a chemical engineer.
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Nov 11, 2025, 4:31 PM
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It sucked because video games were so huge back then and we had nothing. Kids didn't want to stay the night at our house. He was also a dentist on a strict diet too, so we had no sweets either. The place sucked by most kids standards.
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TigerNet Elite [76582]
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House! You were lucky to live in a house!
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Nov 11, 2025, 4:28 PM
[ in reply to Re: Ok. To carry on the topic of the day. ] |
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We used to live in one room, all twenty-six of us, no furniture, half the floor was missing, and we were all huddled together in one corner for fear of falling.
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Top TigerNet [30994]
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Re: House! You were lucky to live in a house!
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Nov 11, 2025, 4:32 PM
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All we had was a floor. No walls or ceiling.
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Top TigerNet [29317]
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Being for real...
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Nov 11, 2025, 5:09 PM
[ in reply to House! You were lucky to live in a house! ] |
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My parents first couch was two twin mattresses cause they couldnt justify buying a couch when they already had the mattresses that worked just fine as a couch.
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Ultimate Tiger [37198]
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Re: Being for real...
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Nov 12, 2025, 8:28 AM
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A friend of mine told me when he was a kid his family was pretty broke. He said their furniture was a bunch of boxes. They finally got some money, and his parents said they could buy some furniture or go on a ski vacation. They all voted, and it was unanimous. They went on a ski vacation. Definitely my kind of peeps. They ended up becoming pretty wealthy later.
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Orange Immortal [61633]
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Ultimate Tiger [37198]
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Re: House! You were lucky to live in a house!
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Nov 11, 2025, 7:00 PM
[ in reply to House! You were lucky to live in a house! ] |
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Had it good I see. We lived in a shoe, and had air for breakfast, lunch, and dinner...AND WE WERE THANKFUL
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All-In [10775]
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I agree with your point, however, the unnecessary expenditures are cheaper
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Nov 11, 2025, 4:30 PM
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while the necessities have outplaced inflation.
Housing, healthcare, health insurance, cars, car insurance, and college are all much, much more expensive now than they were 20 years ago, even adjusting for inflation. They are also pretty much the foundation for a middle class or higher lifestyle.
Much of this is not optional. I can't opt out of my health insurance, which increases significantly every year and provides decreasing benefits.
IB4 someone cites housing interests rates. A decade of artificially low rates combined with not building enough housing have totally screwed up the market.
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Top TigerNet [29317]
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Yep. I agree.
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Nov 11, 2025, 4:42 PM
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But there is a whole lot of extra that we didnt use to do as well.
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Heisman Winner [84583]
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Yep. All of these "luxury" items may, may make up for a couple of
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Nov 11, 2025, 4:45 PM
[ in reply to I agree with your point, however, the unnecessary expenditures are cheaper ] |
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months of a mortgage/rent. Sharkgirl has mostly younger co-workers and when I hear what they have to pay for rent is just wild. I also know I could not replace my house and small bit of acreage for anything close to what I borrowed for this house.
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Paw Warrior [5042]
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Re: Yep. All of these "luxury" items may, may make up for a couple of
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Nov 12, 2025, 3:05 PM
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I've met a lot of people in college and working just out of college in $2k apartments, but that's their choice.
They are choosing solo housing in newer places with lots of amenities.
There are $1500 3 BR apartments and houses out there in the same area where the 2.5k apartments are located.
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TigerNet Champion [113034]
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Bingo.
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Nov 11, 2025, 6:23 PM
[ in reply to I agree with your point, however, the unnecessary expenditures are cheaper ] |
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End of the day, though, it all comes down to labor. The other big part is our economy has thrived for literally decades, on constant growth, new gizmos, new technology, new stuff to spend money on.
But today, with labor short of what it was, and with inflation that comes with that, and with consumers TRYING to pivot to cheaper, more basic needs, our economy is stuck on the accelerator. And protectionism is about the last thing we really need right now.
Right now, today there's a MASSIVE market for pickup trucks. But not the monsters you see driving around, but simple work trucks. For example, if you could build a bare-bones pickup truck, with auto transmission, 4wd, power steering, electric windows, a radio with normal speakers that has Bluetooth, cloth seats, and an AC/heater that has knobs, and THAT's it, with a reliable engine, and you could make that truck for $20-25K, you could literally, DETROIT, could not make enough of them. China is exporting millions of cars, crossover SUV's, and EVs, all under $20K. But we can't import cars, we protect our auto industry, but that industry is not providing what people NEED, it's catering to what they want, and they don't want heated seats, all the crash avoidance stuff, and whatever else. People want simple, useful, reliable, vehicles. People want smaller homes. One reason American cars were crap in the 80's was because quality stunk. One of the things about capitalism is you have to retain those profits. So if people want more car, you give them more car, with cheaper quality. You give them bigger houses, with less quality. And that was the biggest driver in foreign trade for decades.
Like just today, the guy who tried to rip me off at the Goodyear place with a $500 SINGLE TIRE....I was talking about how easy the lug nuts were to remove, and he said that's because cheap foreign cars have crappy threads and they strip easily. I laughed, because I'm driving my third cheap crappy import and each one has lasted over 250,000 miles, and unplanned maintenance has been $1200 through THREE CARS and almost a million miles, over 23 years. ####, how many sedans are even made by US car companies? Take out Tesla, you have 3-4 sedan options left from Detroit.
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Tiger Titan [51014]
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#1 and #2 issues with housing prices are that a) today's concept of a "starter
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Nov 11, 2025, 4:34 PM
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home" is 2000+ sqft. that's "instaworthy" and b) zoning regs pretty much ensures that nobody is building smaller starter homes anymore.
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Oculus Spirit [43244]
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Re: #1 and #2 issues with housing prices are that a) today's concept of a "starter
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Nov 11, 2025, 4:43 PM
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Comparison is the thief of joy
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TigerNet Champion [113034]
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Oculus Spirit [43244]
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Re: Ok. To carry on the topic of the day.
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Nov 11, 2025, 4:39 PM
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Everything has to be kept in perspective. The standard of living in the US is incredible, even for the poor. Ever see the average house in other high SOL countries? They suck ### compared to here. Even the poor in the US have iPhones, Netflix, and a car. Having nice stuff costs money, the cost is it takes every dollar you earn. It’s possible to live in a shanty with vinyl countertops, drive a hoopty, and eat beans and ramen, but nobody who makes a little scratch wants to do that.
Go to Sierra Leone, or Bangladesh, or Ecuador and see how people live.
I think a lot of people live beyond their means for a lot of different reasons.
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CU Medallion [19551]
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While I don't disagree, also realize...
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Nov 11, 2025, 4:44 PM
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people/society have access to so many more "unnecessary" extra expenditures today than when we were kids or before. As you pointed out, the amount of things vying for our attention was so much smaller/narrower in scope than today. If our parents had the same access to the devices, services and things we have today, I'm willing to bet their behaviors would be similar.
Add in the fact that now young people can't afford homes and to have kids, and I don't think it's a surprise you see consumer spending on "unnecessary" items exploding as it serves as a coping mechanism for many.
Also, we have a system where everyone is encouraged to spend money or the house of cards our economy is based on falls down.
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Top TigerNet [29317]
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I dont think my parents would.
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Nov 11, 2025, 5:06 PM
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I do not... they trained me well to do without.
I got my first smartphone in 2016, only because of my business. I got my first flatscreen tv about the same time because my CTR tv worked just fine. We are now pretty much without a tv. I do not have any subscriptions, we have 1 laptop and 1 ipad for the 5 of us (really 4 because one of them is a 2 year old). I live in a decent house because I added on about 1000 sqft myself (like did the work myself). I am driving a 2013 Toyota Avalon.
A lot of it is living below your means and all the ancillary stuff is not necessary. But everyone has it.
And agian, I am not ignoring the fact that the necessary COL stuff has exploded the past couple of years above inflation. As i said in my OP... there are 2 sides to this coin.
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Oculus Spirit [43244]
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Re: I dont think my parents would.
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Nov 11, 2025, 5:11 PM
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These things are probably why you were able to buy investment properties.
A lot of people, most I would wager, choose the every day luxuries at the expense of future financial freedom. It’s difficult to think more than a day or two into the future, let alone decades.
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Top TigerNet [29317]
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Yes, it was.
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Nov 11, 2025, 5:14 PM
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I know I am extreme. I get it from my dad. I try to not beat cheap and just be frugal. My dad is CHEEEAAAAPPPP... see above about not buying couch because they had two mattresses that worked fine for it.
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Oculus Spirit [43244]
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Re: Yes, it was.
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Nov 11, 2025, 5:25 PM
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Does your dad have soup cans full of old bent nails?
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TigerNet Grandmaster [198358]
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I still have an old can my dad had with extra nails and screws
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Nov 11, 2025, 5:29 PM
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so it is about 60 years old at least. Cannot bring myself to throw it away.
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Oculus Spirit [43244]
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Re: I still have an old can my dad had with extra nails and screws
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Nov 11, 2025, 5:31 PM
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I think every grandpa in SC has a can full of used nails. My grandfather had them in old cheese ball and juicy juice cans in his basement. Living through the depression permanently changed people.
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All-Time Great [94262]
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My mothers house has a garage full of that kinda stuff.
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Nov 11, 2025, 5:33 PM
[ in reply to I still have an old can my dad had with extra nails and screws ] |
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That one day, probably soon, I'll have to get rid of. My dad died in '97.
Old cables he clipped off appliances that no longer worked (after the 3rd time of being "fixed"), screws, bolts and every kind of junk you could imagine, "just in case" he ever needed it.
He took all that junk to his grave.
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Oculus Spirit [43244]
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You never know when you might need it***
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Nov 11, 2025, 5:35 PM
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All-Time Great [94262]
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About as much as I have ever needed a cop.
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Nov 11, 2025, 5:36 PM
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Not once. In my entire life.
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Orange Immortal [66075]
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Farmer's Brain -- I have it
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Nov 11, 2025, 7:02 PM
[ in reply to My mothers house has a garage full of that kinda stuff. ] |
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I came from a long line of dirt farmers who did this out of necessity - they didn't have a Lowes or Wal Mart 2 miles down the road. Sometimes it was an all-day trip to "the city" to go get some simple parts to fix something if you didn't have anything available fix a fence or a trailer in a pinch.
Even today, I save any nut, bolt, decent piece of wood or metal, or anything I think I may someday "need". And crazy enough, I often do use these items when building or fixing something. May be years later, but it's saved me a bunch of times from frustration.
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Clemson Sports Icon [54342]
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Ditto. I have scrap and leftover stuff piled up in my shop, and shelves full of
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Nov 12, 2025, 8:08 AM
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hardware, nuts & bolts, misc stuff. But I've cleaned out a lot. A few years ago I realized I had way too much of that, and threw out/Goodwilled a lot of hardware, nuts & bolts, misc stuff. I do have a couple of power cords I cut off of something I was throwing out.
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All-Time Great [94262]
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I've got a Plano tackle box full of stainless screws, washers, nuts and bolts.
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Nov 12, 2025, 3:33 PM
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I've been gathering them for literally decades of boat ownership. I came to the realization this summer that I will never use all of them in my lifetime, and wondered who they would go to when I'm deaded.
Where will they end up? Would they still all be together in that box? Would the tackle box live longer than I will? Or will someone just toss it all in the trash?
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Top TigerNet [29317]
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Lollolololl... if course.
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Nov 11, 2025, 6:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: Yes, it was. ] |
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I try to keep mine limited to just the most common items.
Lollers
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All-Time Great [94262]
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From what I can tell, you are pretty highly leveraged,
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Nov 11, 2025, 5:31 PM
[ in reply to Yes, it was. ] |
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and your income is relying on the rental of higher end mountain houses. If that's incorrect, straighten me out.
If that's true, that would completely freak me out from the get go.
I mean I could afford to go buy a couple more houses (mortgaged to the hilt, obviously) if I wanted to (but I doubt I could make the payment unless I completely gave up on savings and 401K contributions). And I'm no Dave Ramsey follower, but I couldn't mentally make it until next week knowing that the whims of the vacation plans of strangers were the only thing that was keeping me from financial ruin.
I'd never sleep a solid night if that were my situation.
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TigerNet Grandmaster [198358]
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I am risk adverse also
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Nov 11, 2025, 5:40 PM
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but risk has its rewards.
And its risks.
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All-Time Great [94262]
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everything in moderation.
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Nov 11, 2025, 5:57 PM
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even moderation.
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Top TigerNet [29317]
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Nah, most of my expenses are business payroll.
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Nov 11, 2025, 6:31 PM
[ in reply to From what I can tell, you are pretty highly leveraged, ] |
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I mean, I have a crap ton in mortgages too. I do not take any income from the properties. I just reinvest it back into the properties.
I am leveraged out the b hole right now and would not recommend being in the position I am in at all. I had 0 intention of doing that. But disaster after disaster lead to where i am. It will take maybe 2 years and I will be at a comfortable cash flow ability again. Which will include paying off 3 of the loans.
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CU Medallion [19551]
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That's impressive and certainly not the norm, lol
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Nov 11, 2025, 5:26 PM
[ in reply to I dont think my parents would. ] |
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It's also a generational thing because you (and I, and everyone on this board, probably) grew up in a time before all this "stuff". We can remember the days before and have some muscle memory we can rely on to deal with the "desires" to buy or not to buy. It's more of a choice with us.
The younger generations were brought up in a different world where that stuff and having it are the norm and encouraged by society (both culturally and economically). Like I said, our economy is built on the idea that we just keep consuming things. That's all Gen Z knows. They are still aware of the ideas of "living below your means" but everything else in their life is telling them to ignore those ideas. Consider built-in obsolescence and how even the way products are made today makes it impossible not to have to consume a new version every few years, unlike our parents who could buy/repair the things they had.
I agree that it's a complicated topic with many sides, and I'm not trying to say you're wrong or that your opinion isn't valid. In fact, I agree with you that if both people and society decided it would be in their best interest to live below or at their means then things would be better, but I just think there's very little encouragement to do so.
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Oculus Spirit [43244]
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Re: Ok. To carry on the topic of the day.
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Nov 11, 2025, 4:49 PM
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The other thought I had reading through the threads from today is that participation in 401(k)‘s and other tax advantage savings accounts has increased dramatically overtime, so I believe that a larger majority of people now are contributing any extra money per month to these rather than putting it in a more liquid account, which probably contributes to the Lack of savings and more people living paycheck to paycheck
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Top TigerNet [29317]
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I hope so, and that would be a little encouraging for the financial stability
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Nov 11, 2025, 5:16 PM
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of our country. But it also goes along with what MauldinT and I were saying earlier too... net worth looks great... cash flowability suxballs.
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Clemson Sports Icon [54383]
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We played outside most of the time. Hide and Seek, Kick the Can, pickup
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Nov 11, 2025, 5:34 PM
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baseball and basketball, building forts in the woods.
Got our 1st color TV (manual channel change with 4 channels) about 1969. Saw the moon landing in B&W.
Rarely see kids playing outside anymore. Sad.
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Paw Warrior [4955]
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That's because you boomers call the police on anyone having fun
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Nov 12, 2025, 3:07 PM
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or looks like they're doing anything other than dying
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TigerNet Champion [113034]
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It's not that things have gotten more expensive, so much as it is
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Nov 11, 2025, 5:45 PM
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WHAT things have gotten more expensive, and by how much.
You have core necessities, and traditionally those expenses have only gradually risen. This would be housing, cars, oil, electricity, food, insurance, etc. Keeping those down has enabled a lot of other spending on stuff we don't want or need. Massive TV's, computers, PS%, fancy phones, etc. Mostly electronics, fancier cars, etc.
But as the core necessities have increased in price, that leaves less and less for the other stuff. When you have broad inflation, and it's worldwide, and you have labor shortages, then the irony is people's spending changes, to concentrate on the necessities more, and that actually leads them to rise more than the things they don't necessary need that's discretionary.
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Orange Immortal [66075]
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I believe that the EASE of spending money is crippling to those
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Nov 11, 2025, 6:37 PM
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who have little-to-no self-discipline.
Two things contribute, IMO:
1) You can spend thousands of $$ sitting in your kitchen with a few clicks. 24/7, every minute of the day if you like. You used to actually have to go to a STORE to do that. Or maybe Sears catalog. But it actually took thought and effort to spend money. Now? 30 seconds after an urge. And you can order ANYTHING, from a carton of eggs to a new car. Online. Delivered the next day, or maybe even a couple hours.
2) This is my biggie.....credit cards. You don't "feel" the same pain paying for something with a card like you do with cash. Totally psychological, but this is a huge part of my personal budgeting. I pay for things with cash as much as I possibly can. It hurts more to hand over 2 $20 bills to the gas station attendant than it does to slide or wave that card. You actually feel the loss of $40 cash. With credit? Not so much. I get cash out of the ATM every week and that buys my gas, groceries and lunch for the week. I can keep up with what I spend to the penny that way instead of just pulling that card out. Card = Unlimited Budget. At least that's the vibe it gives me. Whereas if I have $20 bill in my wallet, that's how much I can spend on groceries that day. That's how I discipline myself not to overspend.
I think (maybe I'm wrong) i people bought more things with cash they would be much more discretionary with their spending.
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Top TigerNet [30994]
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Re: I believe that the EASE of spending money is crippling to those
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Nov 11, 2025, 6:39 PM
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I have found problems lately where so many places dont take cash. Its odd.
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Ultimate Tiger [33819]
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i try to do same thing when buying
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Nov 11, 2025, 7:14 PM
[ in reply to I believe that the EASE of spending money is crippling to those ] |
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butt, i do have a cc that is tucked away in case something major popped up. its locked away with a zero balance.
the theory is, if i don’t have the cash, then it doesn’t get purchased. when i was married, we didn’t operate like that and the credit we owed jointly kicked my a n u s.
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