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110%er [6681]
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Having all these so-called Tiger fans pulling against Clemson because they do
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Feb 16, 2024, 9:13 PM
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not like Brownell is pure hatred. And anti-Clemson, please live in the present and enjoy this amazingly successful season.
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Legend [16037]
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I haven't seen anyone on here "pulling against Clemson"...
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Feb 16, 2024, 9:29 PM
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...so your hysterics are silly. Many want a new head coach after 14 years of mediocre results but are certainly not hoping we lose games to fulfill that wish.
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110%er [8001]
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Re: I haven't seen anyone on here "pulling against Clemson"...
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Feb 17, 2024, 6:36 AM
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You told two falsehoods in one post. That you have not seen any pulling Clemson means you don’t want to see it and we have not had 14 years of mediocre basketball. Both are simply not true
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110%er [6982]
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Re: I haven't seen anyone on here "pulling against Clemson"...
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Feb 17, 2024, 7:06 AM
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Lol, his conference record is 124-123 at Clemson. That is the definition of mediocre.
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Orange Blooded [4596]
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Re: I haven't seen anyone on here "pulling against Clemson"...
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Feb 17, 2023, 11:02 AM
[ in reply to Re: I haven't seen anyone on here "pulling against Clemson"... ] |
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His average finish in the conference is 7.2308th place, in a 15-team league.
In 13 complete ACC seasons, he has 5 losing seasons, 2 .500 finishes, and 3 seasons exactly 1 game above .500. Only 3 seasons not completely unremarkable:
2017-2018 11-7 (.611)
Good for 3rd place finish in ACC
Made NCAA Tournament Sweet 16 (CBB's first "real" NCAA victory, ignoring the play-in game in his first year with OP's players).
2020-2021 10-6 (.625)
2 games not played due to COVID, at UNC and BC
Made NCAA and lost first game there
2022-2023 14-6 (.700)
Good for 3rd place ACC finish
Best ever ACC results, in terms of games won, albeit in unbalanced schedule with 20 games
(Cliff Ellis' 10-4 finish in 1989-90 was better winning percentage (.714) AND won the regular season)
Failed to make the NCAA tournament due to excessive Quad 3 and Quad 4 losses
#1 Seed in NIT tournament, lost badly in first game to Morehead State
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Hall of Famer [24110]
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Re: I haven't seen anyone on here "pulling against Clemson"...
Feb 17, 2024, 8:13 AM
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DAMB mpercy®! Bringing the fax…..
🫣👍🏻
But yes, I’m still enjoying this year’s team. Well, the losses to Miami, Va Tech, Ga Tech, Va and Duke inhaled; but I’m thinking (hoping?) they’ve turned the corner.
GO TIGERS!!!!
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Legend [16037]
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All-In [31315]
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Re: I haven't seen anyone on here "pulling against Clemson"...
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Feb 17, 2024, 11:02 AM
[ in reply to Re: I haven't seen anyone on here "pulling against Clemson"... ] |
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Definitely mediocre. Not sure that is really up for debate is it? NCAA wins and ACC tourney success would definitely change that narrative.
As far as people pulling against Clemson? Can’t imagine that would be the truth but can’t speak one way or the other on what other’s do. Would definitely say that would definitely be a small number.
Not sure what is so hard to comprehend someone not caring for Brownell, but pulling for the basketball team?
Believe some folks just like to start BS.
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Orange Blooded [2849]
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All-In [40100]
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Different argument. Name one person not pulling for
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Feb 17, 2024, 8:04 AM
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Clemson to win. Your definition of success and mine may differ. I may think success is going to tournament more than every 4-5 years and you may not. That’s fine. But name one person pulling for Clemson to lose. And why do you and yours make it football vs basketball. I want all of our programs to be successful.
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All-TigerNet [10640]
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Re: Different argument. Name one person not pulling for
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Feb 17, 2024, 9:36 AM
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True! I have not seen one person on here that does not want Clemson to win. Several on here like to make things up and because someone doesn't agree with them they are a "hater" or pull against Clemson. Neither are true!
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CU Guru [1893]
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Re: Different argument. Name one person not pulling for
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Feb 17, 2024, 11:50 AM
[ in reply to Different argument. Name one person not pulling for ] |
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You are correct. A successful basketball program makes the NCAA tournament more than 4 times in 14 seasons. But some people appear to be content with that statistic.
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All-TigerNet [12878]
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Re: Having all these so-called Tiger fans pulling against Clemson because they do
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Feb 16, 2024, 9:32 PM
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Last year was amazing too, until it wasn't.
I'm expecting a stronger finish this year.
Go Tigers!
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All-In [30836]
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I hope Clemson doesnt lose another game this year and Brownell gets hired away.***
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Feb 16, 2024, 9:39 PM
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All-In [40100]
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Name one person pulling against Clemson.***
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Feb 16, 2024, 10:24 PM
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Associate AD [846]
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Re: Name one person pulling against Clemson.***
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Feb 16, 2024, 10:29 PM
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Mr. Straw man
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Oculus Spirit [77011]
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Did you read the OP though.
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Feb 16, 2024, 10:31 PM
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That's the claim. He's calling it out...
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CU Guru [1047]
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Re: Having all these so-called Tiger fans pulling against Clemson because they do
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Feb 16, 2024, 10:27 PM
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Wrong. We don’t like settling for mediocre. Brownell has the team and a chance to prove he ain’t who he is, and I hope he does. I wouldn’t bet money on an acc trophy or a sweet sixteen appearance, but if he does I’ll enjoy the ride. It’s long overdue.
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Oculus Spirit [77011]
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So which personality of yours is this posting?***
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Feb 16, 2024, 10:29 PM
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All-In [29036]
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"All these..." ?
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Feb 16, 2024, 10:29 PM
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I've seen only one poster here saying anything even close to what you are ascribing to some large group (and he was roundly drubbed for his stupidity).
You're creating a strawman argument
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Having all these so-called Tiger fans pulling against Clemson because they do
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Feb 16, 2024, 10:31 PM
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Nobody will admit it, but you are correct. Sad to see.
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All-In [40100]
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Name one, just one.***
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Feb 16, 2024, 10:33 PM
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110%er [8001]
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Re: Name one, just one.***
Feb 17, 2024, 10:52 AM
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Here’s three: you, Viz and monkey man. Of course all deny it but the content of your post tell the real story. BTW there are plenty of others. Just check the board after our next loss as they have a backhanded glee to their posts
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All-In [40100]
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False. Troll on.***
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Feb 17, 2024, 11:27 AM
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Associate AD [846]
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Heisman Winner [140587]
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Preach***
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Feb 16, 2024, 10:34 PM
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Heisman Winner [134657]
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On!***
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Feb 17, 2024, 2:50 AM
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Legend [16917]
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Re: Having all these so-called Tiger fans pulling against Clemson because they do
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Feb 16, 2024, 10:39 PM
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What’s sadder is trying to divide Clemson fans based entirely on a made up premise.
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Oculus Spirit [77011]
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Borderline occurs to me.***
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Feb 16, 2024, 10:41 PM
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Legend [16917]
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Re: Having all these so-called Tiger fans pulling against Clemson because they do
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Feb 17, 2024, 6:07 AM
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I guess you’re having a Cobbox moment
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All-In [30460]
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Re: Having all these so-called Tiger fans pulling against Clemson because they do
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Feb 16, 2024, 10:45 PM
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Oculus Spirit [77011]
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That's a lot of straw.***
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Feb 16, 2024, 10:46 PM
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Associate AD [846]
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Re: That's a lot of straw.***
Feb 17, 2024, 7:38 AM
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Man
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CU Medallion [65528]
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So THAT'S the "straw man" I have seen written about in books and movies.
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Feb 17, 2024, 9:25 AM
[ in reply to That's a lot of straw.*** ] |
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He seems to have a pretty flat take on life.
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CU Medallion [57156]
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CU Medallion [52458]
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Re: Having all these so-called Tiger fans pulling against Clemson because they do
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Feb 17, 2024, 5:39 AM
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I've seen some disappointment, but not "pure hatred." Most of us are disappointed when they have losing streaks because we want the best for Clemson.
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Orange Blooded [4596]
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Bad take
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Feb 17, 2024, 7:12 AM
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Virtually no one is rooting for the basketball team to lose (I did see one crazy coot-like post to that effect once, I think).
It is, in fact, possible to hold two different positions at the same time:
I want the Tigers to win every single game, and am always rooting for them to win. Ending the season ranked, winning an ACC tournament, making and even winning a Final four would be AWESOME.
and
I don't think Brad Brownell is the best possible coach Clemson could employ to accomplish the task, and Clemson is WAY overpaying him for the results he does accomplish.
Indeed, it is BECAUSE I hate seeing Tigers lose any game at any time in any sport that I want to see the University give someone else a chance to see if they can lead the basketball program to new heights.
This year may turn out to be well above the norm for a Brownell team. But one good season does not negate 14 year pattern of mediocrity, with occasional bright flashes that do not sustain themselves.
Does anyone honestly believe that after PJ Hall and Girard III are gone that the next 4 or 5 years will at all resemble this year? Personally, I expect that under continued CBB leadership, future years will resume the slightly-better-than .500 play, losing more ACC games than we win, blown NIT games, and more "snubs". After 14+ years--a more than fair evaluation period--I think we've seen the best that CBB has to offer, and think taking a chance on someone else is worth it.
If the pattern established over the last 14 year is what YOU want from Clemson basketball, then pray that CBB continues his employment (ever wonder why no other program has EVER--as far as I know--wanted to hire CBB to fill their open coaching position?).
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Orange Blooded [2849]
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No one else has hired Brownell
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Feb 17, 2024, 8:06 AM
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Because he wants to be at Clemson. The Lunatic Fringe need to get off his back and realize he is one of the best in the business. Don’t worry about last year or next year. You people beating the drum for a change are a pathetic group.
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Legend [16917]
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Re: No one else has hired Brownell
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Feb 17, 2024, 8:26 AM
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Can I worry about the last 13 years and the next 13 years. whatever happens this year, are you content that it was the best possible return for 14 years and would you be willing to watch the exact same pattern play out again? And, by absolutely no objective measure, is he one of the best in the business. He loses as a favorite and loses to quad 3 and 4 teams at a pace worse than all but the worst programs in the ACC during his tenure. These results having nothing to do with our history or institutional support and entirely to do with his ability to game plan, motivate, and execute. He’s not a bad coach, but he is far from great. That shouldn’t be an insult. It’s hard to be great. Most people will never experience it in any capacity. Achieving the level he has is already rarified. But you’re are 100% projecting to believe he’s “one of the best”. The fact that you can afford seats that include face time with him is not a part of the criteria for greatness.
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All-In [40100]
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What objective measure is he one of the best in the business?
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Feb 17, 2024, 8:44 AM
[ in reply to No one else has hired Brownell ] |
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This still could end up being a great year no doubt. But out of 14 years argue he is one of the best in the business objectively.
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Recruit [82]
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Re: What objective measure is he one of the best in the business?
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Feb 17, 2024, 9:13 AM
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There are a lot of factors that you would need to adjust for to objectively measure the effect a coach has on a program. However, we could crudely examine coaches that have been employed at their respective universities since 2010-11 (same as Brownell). Ranking these coaches by winning percentage at their current schools, we have...
Dana Altman (Oregon): 337-148 (0.695) - 7 NCAA appearances (5 Sweet 16's, 1 Final Four)
Greg McDermott (Creighton): 318-157 (0.669) - 8 NCAA appearances (2 Sweet 16's)
Leon Rice (Boise State): 284-163 (0.635) - 4 NCAA appearances
Ross Turner (UC-Irvine): 283-177 (0.615) - 2 NCAA appearances
Tad Boyle (Colorado): 288-181 (0.614) - 5 NCAA appearances
Tod Kowalczyk (Toledo): 274-178 (0.606)
Fran McCaffery (Iowa): 275-187 (0.595) - 7 NCAA appearances
Bob Marlin (Louisiana): 264-184 (0.589) - 2 NCAA appearances
Brad Brownell (Clemson): 258-184 (0.584) - 3 NCAA appearances (1 Sweet 16)
Andrew Toole (Robert Morris): 226-226 (0.500) - 1 NCAA appearance
Keith Richard (Louisiana-Monroe): 162-266 (0.379)
This is just the winning percentage of coaches at their current school having been there since 2010-11. There are different inferences you could make here though. You could argue that of these coaches, Brownell is 1 of 3 to make it to the Sweet 16 from these 11 coaches. You could also argue that of these coaches he's 6th of 11 in NCAA appearances or that he is 9th of 11 in winning percentage at their school.
This does not tell the whole story of how effective a coach is; however, it does contain factors that I would imagine would go into any statistical model to objectively assess the effect a coach has on a program.
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All-In [40100]
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Good objective data guess that people can use the same
Feb 17, 2024, 9:42 AM
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Statistics to infer very different things as you pointed out.
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All-TigerNet [11487]
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Re: What objective measure is he one of the best in the business?
Feb 17, 2024, 6:03 PM
[ in reply to Re: What objective measure is he one of the best in the business? ] |
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There are a lot of factors that you would need to adjust for to objectively measure the effect a coach has on a program. However, we could crudely examine coaches that have been employed at their respective universities since 2010-11 (same as Brownell). Ranking these coaches by winning percentage at their current schools, we have...
Dana Altman (Oregon): 337-148 (0.695) - 7 NCAA appearances (5 Sweet 16's, 1 Final Four)
Greg McDermott (Creighton): 318-157 (0.669) - 8 NCAA appearances (2 Sweet 16's)
Leon Rice (Boise State): 284-163 (0.635) - 4 NCAA appearances
Ross Turner (UC-Irvine): 283-177 (0.615) - 2 NCAA appearances
Tad Boyle (Colorado): 288-181 (0.614) - 5 NCAA appearances
Tod Kowalczyk (Toledo): 274-178 (0.606)
Fran McCaffery (Iowa): 275-187 (0.595) - 7 NCAA appearances
Bob Marlin (Louisiana): 264-184 (0.589) - 2 NCAA appearances
Brad Brownell (Clemson): 258-184 (0.584) - 3 NCAA appearances (1 Sweet 16)
Andrew Toole (Robert Morris): 226-226 (0.500) - 1 NCAA appearance
Keith Richard (Louisiana-Monroe): 162-266 (0.379)
This is just the winning percentage of coaches at their current school having been there since 2010-11. There are different inferences you could make here though. You could argue that of these coaches, Brownell is 1 of 3 to make it to the Sweet 16 from these 11 coaches. You could also argue that of these coaches he's 6th of 11 in NCAA appearances or that he is 9th of 11 in winning percentage at their school.
This does not tell the whole story of how effective a coach is; however, it does contain factors that I would imagine would go into any statistical model to objectively assess the effect a coach has on a program.
This^^
Thank you. Very strong research to prove that Coach Brownell is far behind the other coaches from big leagues as far as achievement.
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All-TigerNet [10640]
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Orange Blooded [4596]
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Re: No one else has hired Brownell
Feb 17, 2024, 9:00 AM
[ in reply to No one else has hired Brownell ] |
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Tommy West wanted to be at Clemson too. But he proved that he was not up to the challenge, and I was among those advocating for him to be replaced. Tommy Bowden provided Brownell-like results, and as his inexplicable losses piled up, I wanted him replaced too. He at least had the good sense to realize it after his Wake Forest debacle.
Dabo got hired and turned things around in short order: 16 consecutive post-season games (10-6), 8 ACC championships, 2 additional division championships, 6 consecutive CFP appearances, 4 CFP finals, 2 CFP national championships, one undefeated season. One losing season (very early in his tenure), never a losing ACC record. Dozens of players drafted, recruited at least two "generational talents". Overall winning record of 170-43 (.798) and ACC record of 103-23 (.817). Ranked in final top 25 every year since 2011.
Is it so wrong to wish that Clemson might hire the "basketball Dabo"? Instead of passively accepting the continuing tenure of the basketball Tommy Bowden?
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Orange Blooded [4095]
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Re: No one else has hired Brownell
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Feb 17, 2024, 1:39 PM
[ in reply to No one else has hired Brownell ] |
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I always wonder if you have trouble remembering which scock you used when you post.
It seems like sometimes you are talking to yourself but maybe that's just your mental illness?
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110%er [9031]
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you tell 'em coot!***
Feb 17, 2024, 7:42 AM
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Orange Blooded [4036]
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The issues should be mutually exclusive.
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Feb 17, 2024, 8:08 AM
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Clemson having one good year finishing in the middle of the pack - should not salvage 14 years of at best - mediocre results for Brownell.
Unfortunately, people have convenient memories and will think that after 14 years - that Brad read a book “Basketball for Dummies” and it enlightened Brad and now he is a wonderful coach and instead of finishing in the lower portion of the ACC, we will move up to the middle of the ACC for one year (until Hall leaves), and then we go back to lower middle or upper bottom.
Brad should not be judged on a single win or season. The set of data is 14 years. Facts don’t lie, people do.
If I birdie the last hole of my round today - after bogeying the other 17 - it does not make me a great golfer. It simply means I had 1 good hole. Same for Brad.
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Legend [16917]
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Re: The issues should be mutually exclusive.
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Feb 17, 2024, 8:15 AM
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I guarantee these are the same people that rage against “everyone gets a trophy” but laud this professional for tying for 3rd.
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Hall of Famer [22740]
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Re: The issues should be mutually exclusive.
Feb 17, 2024, 6:15 PM
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And a lot of the same ones who lost their minds when Dabo said there were people rooting for DJU to fail so they could be the first to yell I told you so. So many deniers on here after that. And the same ones who seemingly relish in what they like to call the “demise” of the football program so they can criticize Dabo for his coaching hires and not using the portal. They may not be rooting for Clemson to lose, but they sure seem to enjoy the opportunities it gives them to say I told you so.
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Orange Blooded [4095]
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Re: Having all these so-called Tiger fans pulling against Clemson because they do
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Feb 17, 2024, 1:37 PM
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Mentally ####### ill...
How do you decide which id you are going to use to post this stupid ####?
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All-In [27374]
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There are MANY
Feb 17, 2024, 6:40 PM
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T Netters who can’t handle being wrong!
I see it every day on this website.
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CU Guru [1388]
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Posts: 1441
Joined: 9/2/05
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Re: Having all these so-called Tiger fans pulling against Clemson because they do
Feb 17, 2024, 7:03 PM
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Not rooting against basketball team but do feel like a new coach is needed and nothing short of making it to the finals will change my mind. Graham’s decision but if I had a vote bye bye BB. It’s taken over 13 seasons so don’t even come with “BB is one of the best in the nation” crap. As for the disdain on the board, “jk” with his venom at Dabo has turned people completely off on his crush”BB” … well there’s plenty of other reasons but jk didn’t help!
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