Clemson was 8th in the nation in total defense last season
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Tiger Spirit [9836]
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Clemson was 8th in the nation in total defense last season
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Dec 22, 2024, 7:18 AM
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And we went 9-4..…Every single problem was caused by Garrett Riley's terrible offense. The only reason we won the games we did was because our defense pretty much shutdown our opponents (for example, the defense single handedly beat the coots in 2023)
Why wasn't anyone calling for Riley's head last year?
That is why I can't get on the "fire Wes" train. I'm looking at the total body of work. In my mind, Wes was good in 2023 and Riley was bad. Wes was bad in 2024 and Riley was below average.
If you fire one, you gotta fire both. It would be hypocritical otherwise
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1st Rounder [676]
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Re: Clemson was 8th in the nation in total defense last season
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Dec 22, 2024, 7:21 AM
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WES wasn’t bad, he was AWFUL
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Solid Orange [1320]
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Re: Clemson was 8th in the nation in total defense last season
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Dec 22, 2024, 7:49 AM
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BS...one problem on D was our switch to a freshman middle linebacker...he is supposed to fill that hole and make the tackle at the line of scrimmage or behind...those washing runs were lack of recognition and late arrival in the hole...noticed lots of holding and no calls in this game...poor tackling!
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Letterman [162]
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Re: Clemson was 8th in the nation in total defense last season
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Dec 22, 2024, 10:51 AM
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Guess who the guy coaching him is genuis
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Offensive Star [306]
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Re: Clemson was 8th in the nation in total defense last season
Dec 22, 2024, 11:27 AM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson was 8th in the nation in total defense last season ] |
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Sammy is one of the best MLB in the ACC our problem was that Wes didn’t teach tackling, and gap discipline, oh wow isn’t it crazy that those two things are how you stop the run🤯. Wes is a genius but he just can’t coach he is an amazing analyst but a terrible DC. I really did wish that he was going to be as good of a DC as he was an analyst, it just didn’t work out and Dabo’s experiment failed. Which is ok Dabo just needs to learn that people don’t deserve 3rd and 4th chances in CFB which is why Wes and Garret both have to go.
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Clemson Icon [25769]
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The Fire Riley train ran all season and several games into this season.***
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Dec 22, 2024, 7:21 AM
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Game Changer [1829]
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Id rather see GR gone .
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Dec 22, 2024, 7:21 AM
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Wes ain’t great … But no offense at all definitely lost Uga ,Louisville and Scar games & the up the middle two plays to lose to Texas was embarrassing
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Associate AD [1018]
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Re: Clemson was 8th in the nation in total defense last season
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Dec 22, 2024, 7:22 AM
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Plenty of folk on this message board were calling for Riley to go last year. Don't know how you missed that. I don't think there's honestly a debate as to which side of the line of scrimmage under performed this year. Having said that, other issues such as punting, placekicking and playing an injured Mafah were head scratchers for sure...
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110%er [3963]
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Not sure what 2023 had to do with it.
Dec 22, 2024, 7:22 AM
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We still had Venables at that point and pretty sure Riley wasn’t here yet.
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CU Guru [1509]
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Re: Not sure what 2023 had to do with it.
Dec 22, 2024, 7:50 AM
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Venables was not here in 2023, and Riley was.
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National Champion [7138]
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Re: Not sure what 2023 had to do with it.
Dec 22, 2024, 9:28 AM
[ in reply to Not sure what 2023 had to do with it. ] |
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We still had Venables at that point and pretty sure Riley wasn’t here yet.
Huh? Did you just become a fan yesterday?
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Offensive Star [306]
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Varsity [120]
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Re: Clemson was 8th in the nation in total defense last season
Dec 22, 2024, 7:24 AM
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well, we will find out next season when Cade leaves for NFL, then he will either sink or swim, Reilly that is.
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Top TigerNet [28735]
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You make a valid point.
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Dec 22, 2024, 7:24 AM
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The point I take from this (and, remember I said some very negative things about Wes after the game last night):
We're fans. We are passionate about Clemson football. But, we don't know what's going on, really. We don't see the practices. We aren't in the coaches' meetings. We don't know how well any coach is communicating with the other coaches or the players. We send three hours on the field every week. We don't see the 70+ hours the coaches and players spend preparing for those 3 hours.
A principle I learned a long time ago, from none other than Dandy Don Meredith. "Everybody knows what to do with the bull except him who's got him by the horns."
Dabo's got him by the horns. I don't.
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Starter [297]
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Re: You make a valid point.
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Dec 22, 2024, 9:35 AM
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Great point. To think anyone on the message boards knows what’s best over the 2 time national champion head coach who’s been doing it for 17 years is mind blowing.
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110%er [3680]
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Re: Clemson was 8th in the nation in total defense last season
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Dec 22, 2024, 7:29 AM
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The eye-test shows the defense has taken a step down every year since BV left. The LBs look like they don't have a coach, filling wrong gaps, taking bad angles, and consistently missing arm tackles. The DL doesn't know how to tackle. The defensive scheme is to sit back and let the opponent do whatever they want to do, and hope they stop themselves by making a mistake. Good opponents aren't going to make many mistakes when there's no pressure.
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CU Guru [1509]
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Re: Clemson was 8th in the nation in total defense last season
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Dec 22, 2024, 7:51 AM
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The defense hasn't taken a step back every year.
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Hall of Famer [8138]
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The problem is that Wes does not know how to make in-game changes
Dec 22, 2024, 7:36 AM
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Wes’s only adjustment is “blitz, blitz, blitz”. As soon as the offense starts getting momentum, he starts sending more and more blitzes. It’s very predictable.
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Orange Blooded [2413]
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Re: The problem is that Wes does not know how to make in-game changes
Dec 22, 2024, 7:38 AM
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And he can’t disguise a blitz to save his life.
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Clemson Conqueror [11587]
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the ONLY reason we won the games we did was.........
Dec 22, 2024, 7:43 AM
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b/c our opponents were absolutely ATROCIOUS................any decent team we played...........we lost (sans SMU).
Talent is the main reason that we are who we are. No, Goodwin should've never been hired, but we also aren't pulling in the horses that we used to.
Those who are calling for Riley's head are out of their minds too...........our talent on offense is nowhere CLOSE to what we used to have.
Dabo's recruiting has dropped and his refusal to lead w/ NIL and to portal over the last several years have led to where our talent is now...........it's not elite enough and hasn't been in 4-5 years.
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Head Coach [943]
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But so the reason we arent getting great D players because of the DC?
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Dec 22, 2024, 7:50 AM
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Who really wants to go play for Wes as compared to someone like BV?
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Legend [6869]
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money. It is only about money. You either pay them, or they go elsewhere***
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Dec 22, 2024, 7:59 AM
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Paw Warrior [4838]
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Look at the DL last year compared to this year
Dec 22, 2024, 7:48 AM
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We had three 6th year DL, recruited and developed mainly be Venebles.
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Game Changer [1677]
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I think most of us have resigned to the fact that no matter who we have at OC
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Dec 22, 2024, 7:54 AM
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Dabos going to insert himself.
We need an elite DC who can get stops when the game is on the line. BV could do it for whatever reason. Wes seems to crumble when it comes down to it.
I think a lot of coaches would have our talent vs our opposition in the top 10 of total D. We need a guy who can push us beyond that if we want another title.
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Ring of Honor [22631]
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You do realize Dabo will probably fire Wes, don't you? So give it a rest.***
Dec 22, 2024, 7:54 AM
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CU Guru [1509]
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Re: You do realize Dabo will probably fire Wes, don't you? So give it a rest.***
Dec 22, 2024, 7:57 AM
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Hey may, but that still doesn't change the fact that talent is the fundamental problem.
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MVP [511]
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Re: You do realize Dabo will probably fire Wes, don't you? So give it a rest.***
Dec 22, 2024, 9:23 AM
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And exactly where do you get your expertise recognizing and developing talent in players? Oh let me guess. Your basement?
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CU Guru [1509]
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Re: You do realize Dabo will probably fire Wes, don't you? So give it a rest.***
Dec 22, 2024, 10:07 AM
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Exactly where do you get your expertise recognizing talented players, or ability of coaches? You don't have any more experience than I do so shut your mouth.
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Ring of Honor [23815]
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CU Guru [1509]
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Re: Talent isnt the problem obviously. The citadel game proves that alone v***
Dec 22, 2024, 10:44 AM
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Yes it is.
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Ring of Honor [23815]
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Thats illogical unless you are saying Citadels offense had better talent.***
Dec 22, 2024, 1:40 PM
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Orange Blooded [2354]
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CU Guru [1565]
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GR has pedigree and trended year 2. D has regressed under WG in Y3
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Dec 22, 2024, 9:39 AM
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An extra year and going the wrong way is why Wes may get fired. If Riley regresses next year, he might be next, but I don't see him going anywhere after two or 3 years, unless it's taking a HC job.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [100748]
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"We lost 4 games, somebody has to be fired!"
Dec 22, 2024, 9:41 AM
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This comes from the nuts inside the padded cells.
You don't start firing people when things go wrong. First you determine, one at a time, what things went wrong, why they when wrong then you start fixing everything that went wrong.
Lashing out by firing people is childish and comes from emotion, desire to punish. Finding who to blame never should be the first step, it should be the last if it's going to happen.
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Ring of Honor [23815]
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Its not a punishment. Its acknowledging the source of the problem.
Dec 22, 2024, 10:49 AM
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Our offense has been underperforming for 2 years under Riley. I don’t think firing coaches is the solution because I don’t see leadership as the problem as much as I see needing to put everything together. It doesn’t look fundamentally broken this year as much as it looks out of tune.
The defense looks broken and lost. They get worse and easier to exploit each week. Coaching is not helping, it seems to be ossifying the problems. So… from that perspective, you need new leadership to change the trajectory.
I didn’t call for Streeter to be fired when he was. Nor did I call for Kevin Steele to be fired. So I’m on the conservative side of that. Wes needs to be replaced now to move in the right direction. He was a controversial hire that would have been crazy had it worked. It’s definitely not working. We have plummeted on defense. We must stop the bleeding.
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110%er [3841]
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This years offense suffered from a lack of a running game.
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Dec 22, 2024, 1:57 PM
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That’s it.
Air Raid alone, combined with a porous run D, doesn’t get ‘er done in today’s game.
With Cade back and hopefully an improved running game, the offense will be very good. Defense is another subject.
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Valley Legend [12613]
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CU Guru [1509]
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Re: Clemson was 8th in the nation in total defense last season
Dec 22, 2024, 10:06 AM
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No your misquoting the statistics. On the link that you reference the default sorting is by scoring defense. In Total Defense yes Clemson was 8th last year in Total Defense scoring defense and Total Defense are two completely different statistics. Again, you are misquoting the statistics.
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CU Guru [1509]
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All-TigerNet [5995]
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Re: Clemson was 8th in the nation in total defense last season
Dec 22, 2024, 10:14 AM
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I'm glad Dabo doesn't consult you on his personell decisions. That analysis has a few holes in it good buddy...lol.
Reminds me of the parable about ignoring the plank of wood in the eye while noticing the speck of sand in the other guy's.
Don't whiz on my leg and tell me it's raining. The defense is broken, and it's not a personell issue.
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Tiger Titan [48242]
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I think the difference was that Riley was in year one last year.
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Dec 22, 2024, 10:27 AM
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People were willing to show him some grace, especially since he didn’t exactly inherit a great offense.
In contrast, Goodwin did inherit a talented defense and our D seems to be declining on his watch.
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CU Guru [1509]
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Re: I think the difference was that Riley was in year one last year.
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Dec 22, 2024, 10:33 AM
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Clemson was 28th in total defense in Good son's first year, 8th his 2nd year, and 73rd this year. This year was bad, but you can't discount the first two years.
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Starter [281]
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Re: I think the difference was that Riley was in year one last year.
Dec 22, 2024, 11:15 AM
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With the talent we have, anything outside the top 10 is unacceptable.
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CU Guru [1509]
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Re: I think the difference was that Riley was in year one last year.
Dec 22, 2024, 11:22 AM
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We don't have the talent you think we do.
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Orange Blooded [2339]
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Re: I think the difference was that Riley was in year one last year.
Dec 22, 2024, 11:47 AM
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We lack depth but there is plenty of talent.
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Ring of Honor [23815]
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The offense made notable strides in many ways this year but the defense is worse
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Dec 22, 2024, 10:39 AM
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Trajectory.
Also, yards per rush is inexcusably bad and a sign of a fundamentally broken defense. Wes simply can’t fix the problems even against the Citadel. The offense was at least capable of making adjustments against elite defenses while the defense is exploited by anyone.
4th and short on offense we are just as bad as the defense though. We are way too easy to stop there.
Riley has definitely not earned anything close to his paycheck and I give him low grades so far. But it is obvious to me that Wes is not a leader capable of having a defense to our standard. I think this offense is headed towards being very good if Cade comes back and we get a healthy rb. But I don’t trust our coaches on short yardage situations. Too many stupid calls.
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CU Medallion [18004]
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riley had to contend with a bad banged up wr room
Dec 22, 2024, 10:43 AM
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along with a non existent o line. both improved this year thus his offense improved ...wes has had talent out of his ears and his defense has been declining since he showed up
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1st Rounder [675]
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Re: Clemson was 8th in the nation in total defense last season
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Dec 22, 2024, 10:50 AM
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You look at the trends….the trajectories. Defense headed down, offense up.
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Orange Blooded [2339]
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Re: Clemson was 8th in the nation in total defense last season
Dec 22, 2024, 11:25 AM
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To me there were 2 camps last year. Riley needs to go or Dabo needs to keep his hand out of the cookie jar. I haven't heard anybody so far that says Dabo needs to stop messing with the defense.
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Game Day Hero [4479]
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Re: Clemson was 8th in the nation in total defense last season
Dec 22, 2024, 11:30 AM
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Because it was year 1 under Riley who came in from outside the program
This is year 3 under Wes AFTER being a part of the program since 2018
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Game Changer [1677]
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Re: Clemson was 8th in the nation in total defense last season
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Dec 22, 2024, 12:00 PM
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Difference is we have improved under Riley. Offense before Riley was terrible and we have gradually gotten better. We have gradually gotten way worse in defense under Goodwin. Defense recruiting is also suffering because of it.
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CU Medallion [19895]
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Re: Clemson was 8th in the nation in total defense last season
Dec 22, 2024, 1:44 PM
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And we went 9-4..…Every single problem was caused by Garrett Riley's terrible offense. The only reason we won the games we did was because our defense pretty much shutdown our opponents (for example, the defense single handedly beat the coots in 2023)
Why wasn't anyone calling for Riley's head last year?
That is why I can't get on the "fire Wes" train. I'm looking at the total body of work. In my mind, Wes was good in 2023 and Riley was bad. Wes was bad in 2024 and Riley was below average.
If you fire one, you gotta fire both. It would be hypocritical otherwise
In answer to "Why wasn't anyone calling for Riley's head last year?" 1st year with program. Cade was inexperienced. WR's were hurt and awful. Dabo mandated running plays. Offense improved greatly this year. Defense seriously declined.
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110%er [3841]
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Nothing wrong with the offense.
Dec 22, 2024, 1:49 PM
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Cade is the standard developmental QB, i.e., he’s not Watson or Lawrence. If Cade was as good last year as he was this year, combined with the 8th ranked defense, then last year goes much differently.
We had a good offense this year. We have two true freshmen WRs who paid dividends but they’re still true freshmen. One of our best WRs, Tyler Brown, didn’t play. The only reasons we lost 4 games this year were a porous defense particularly against the run, and a lack of a consistent running game. That’s it.
Riley will absolutely be back and rightfully so. Obviously something needs to change on defense whether that’s DL or DC.
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Head Coach [921]
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Re: Clemson was 8th in the nation in total defense last season
Dec 22, 2024, 1:57 PM
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Before Louisville we were coming off bye week, and we stunk. Before Texas we were coming off a bye week, and stunk. Cade first year as starting QB was last year. That byes some grace for Reilly. This year, Cade took large leaps forward. Every year we are removed from Venables system and players the defense has regressed. Additionally, he is talked about as a liability from a recruiting standpoint. We were in a 1 score game at halftime ahainst UGA, his defense imploded the second half. Against USC, his defense imploded. Against Texas, same story. His lack of experience and coaching acumen is obvious. He needs to go.
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Replies: 53
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