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Replies: 35
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All-TigerNet [13549]
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Does anyone still care about winning at least 10 games
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Sep 12, 2023, 9:45 AM
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in a season at Clemson? I ask this because there was a time throughout the history of Clemson Football when we didn't care. In fact, before Dabo arrived, it was most of the time. Let me explain.
Clemson has been playing football for a total of 122 seasons. Dabo is starting his 15th season as head coach so take 14 of those seasons away and you have 108 seasons pre-Dabo and 14 full seasons with Dabo. In our first 108 seasons, we achieved the 10-win milestone just 7 times. That is 7 out of 108. Between 1987 and 1990 we did string together (4) 10-win seasons in a row so if you take those 4 years out, we hit the 10-win mark in only 3 of 104 seasons.
Now, to be fair, there were many seasons up until the 70's or so where maybe we only played 10 or 11 games and in the earlier years not even that many. Either way though, the point is no Clemson fan really cared all that much about 10-win seasons before Dabo arrived because it simply, rarely ever happened.
Dabo's first full season as our coach was 2009 when he won 9 games and only 6 the year after. But then, he started this little 12-season streak of 10 or more wins in a season. So, in Dabo's 14 full seasons as head coach, he has achieved at least 10 wins 12 times compared to the time prior to Dabo of 7 times out of 108 seasons.
My point is the guy we are complaining about made us care about winning streaks, playoffs, and National Championships because we had little reason to care before. He has become a victim of his own success. We have gotten used to consistently winning and it feels good and makes us proud, and we don't want to lose that.
I have had my fair share of criticisms with Dabo and make them clearly known on this board. Mainly, I felt he should have hired best of breed coaches from the beginning for OC/DC, he should have pulled DJ sooner (although more light is now being shed about when Cade was really ready so I might have to re-think that one), and his lack of interest in the portal. So yes, I am not saying I don't have concerns as well.
The bottom line, he built a program that we can all be proud of and he did it his way. He has earned the right to continue to do it his way but we criticize because we want it to continue and because he made us care like we never did before.
Thanks Dabo!
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Athletic Dir [858]
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Re: Does anyone still care about winning at least 10 games
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Sep 12, 2023, 9:47 AM
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I only care about winning the next game.
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All-TigerNet [13549]
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Re: Does anyone still care about winning at least 10 games
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Sep 12, 2023, 9:48 AM
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At least you still care...
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CU Guru [1321]
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From a strictly win-loss perspective...
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Sep 12, 2023, 10:36 AM
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The first 3 years of the 90s weren't bad. 32-13-1, with one ACC championship and 2 bowl wins. The problem there was how the Ford era ended and no matter who they brought in they would have trouble living up to the legend of Danny. Plus the fact that Hatfield was not a good fit for Clemson.
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Orange Blooded [4095]
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Re: From a strictly win-loss perspective...
Sep 12, 2023, 11:21 AM
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Recruiting dropped off.
Quite a few of those wins were with Danny's players.
There was some real talent in the state and they mostly went to FSU.
We were getting our ### kicked by FSU by players who should have been at Clemson.
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CU Guru [1321]
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Why does every one forget the 80's?
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Sep 12, 2023, 10:08 AM
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They always go jump from the 70's to Hatfield. Is it because of the probation years?
1980: 6-5 4th in ACC
1981: 12-0 ACC champs, National Champs
1982: 9-1-1 ACC champs (probation)
1983: 9-1-1 Unbeaten in ACC but not eligible for championship (probation)
1984: 7-4 2nd in ACC (probation)
1985: 6-6 4th in ACC first season after probation lost Independence Bowl
1986: 8-2-2 ACC champs won the Gator Bowl
1987: 10-2 ACC champs won the Citrus Bowl
1988: 10-2 ACC champs won the Citrus Bowl again
1989: 10-2 3rd in the ACC won the Gator Bowl
Plus they beat a lot of the blue bloods during that time: Oklahoma, Penn State, Ohio State, Notre Dame and Nebraska.
Given that you only played 11 games a season, no overtime, and no post season for 3 years that decade isn't too much different from our current run.
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All-TigerNet [13549]
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Re: Why does every one forget the 80's?
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Sep 12, 2023, 10:11 AM
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A very productive decade for sure. In fact, the last really decent one until Dabo arrived, and not much before it.
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110%er [6905]
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110%er [6982]
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What?
Sep 12, 2023, 11:05 AM
[ in reply to Why does every one forget the 80's? ] |
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We’ve played in four national championship games, won 2, and won 7 out of eight ACC championships. I’d say that’s a little better than the 80s. We also have a deeper league and more scholarships restrictions. In the 80s all you had to beat was who, Georgia Tech, NC State? Please…
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All-In [25734]
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Re: Does anyone still care about winning at least 10 games
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Sep 12, 2023, 10:09 AM
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10 win season in ACC is just not that great. 2 of the 10 wins are against OC cupcakes. Add 2 more wins against in conference weaklings and you end up with a weak 10 wins. College FB started playing a reg. 12 game season in 2006. When it expanded to a 11-12 game season teams promptly added 2 scrimmage games to the schedule. So, the 10 win season is overblown in modern CFB. 10 wins a season just does not trip my trigger when you are paying coaches 10 million a year. Same as going to a bowl game with 6 wins. If you played 12 strong teams each season, then it would mean more. At least to me.
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All-TigerNet [13549]
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Re: Does anyone still care about winning at least 10 games
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Sep 12, 2023, 10:12 AM
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But it has been pretty rare throughout our history pre-Dabo. Ask yourself where we might be right now had we hired someone else.
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All-TigerNet [13549]
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Re: Does anyone still care about winning at least 10 games
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Sep 12, 2023, 10:16 AM
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Also, to be fair, he has won 11 or more in 8 of those 12 seasons. His average wins over those 12 seasons is 12 games (11.8)...
Message was edited by: slwcu79®
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All-In [25734]
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Re: Does anyone still care about winning at least 10 games
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Sep 12, 2023, 10:48 AM
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I don't know anyone who says Dabo has not been the best coach CU has ever had. Hands down. As of today, I still think we can go 11-1 and get to CFP. I may change my outlook if we lose another game. But until then, it's 11-1. And I am sure the entire team feels that way. Why wouldn't they? Lately, We always start the season slow. I wish it was different, but it is what it is.
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All-TigerNet [13549]
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Re: Does anyone still care about winning at least 10 games
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Sep 12, 2023, 11:31 AM
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You think we can go 11-1 but you MAY change your mind if we lose another game (for our 2nd loss)? 
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All-In [25734]
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Re: Does anyone still care about winning at least 10 games
Sep 12, 2023, 11:39 AM
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Well, I did cover it pretty well.😜
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Athletic Dir [858]
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Re: Does anyone still care about winning at least 10 games
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Sep 12, 2023, 10:26 AM
[ in reply to Re: Does anyone still care about winning at least 10 games ] |
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I used to think scheduling FCS teams was somewhat dictated by NCAA rules to spread the wealth of television money. The truth is very few programs don't schedule a couple of FCS teams a year and it is precisely to give their team a bit of a break in the 12-game schedule. To get the FCS teams to do it the FBS teams grant huge chunks of the TV money to the FCS team which in some cases prevents their program from going under.
Only 16 Schools have not scheduled an FCS team this year. Notre Dame has scheduled one for the first time in 2023 which might be a harbinger of them joining a conference in the near future. Up to now they have used a purposely tougher schedule to make up for not playing in a conference championship.
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CU Medallion [52493]
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All-TigerNet [13156]
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No, I only care about FSU, ND, and South Carolina
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Sep 12, 2023, 10:15 AM
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This coaching staff is at pay level to only lose in the playoffs; losing to Duke is unacceptable.
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Hall of Famer [24226]
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LOL
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Sep 12, 2023, 10:18 AM
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All-TigerNet [13549]
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Re: No, I only care about FSU, ND, and South Carolina
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Sep 12, 2023, 10:22 AM
[ in reply to No, I only care about FSU, ND, and South Carolina ] |
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Most of the elite programs have coaches compensation similar to ours and they have been in the playoffs fewer times than we have. Only Alabama has been in more, 7 vs. 6. Duke was disappointing on a number of fronts and that performance was below what we should expect.
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All-In [29036]
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All-In [44055]
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We pay Dabo over $10 million a year.
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Sep 12, 2023, 10:46 AM
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He's the second highest paid coach in college football.
We've invested hundreds of millions in facilities, which are arguably the finest in college football.
I believe Dabo deserves his contract, based on his body of work.
However, that contract is not just for prior performance; it comes with expectations. One of those expectations is that we will be one of the top few programs in the country. We haven't been in that group, or anywhere close, the last couple of years. Rather, we've been outside the top 10.
Is it realistic to expect to be one of the top few teams in the country every year? Probably not, because there are too many variables including injuries, occasional recruits not panning out, etc. However, based on our investment in the program, and the proof that it's very achievable at Clemson, it's very reasonable to expect to be in that group most years.
If we are merely happy winning 10 games a year, then let's dial back what we are spending on the program.
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CU Medallion [52493]
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Re: We pay Dabo over $10 million a year.
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Sep 12, 2023, 11:00 AM
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Ten wins is never the ultimate goal, and it shouldn't be. But...I would care if we didn't reach at least a double-digit win total.
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Varsity [223]
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ACC Championships
Sep 12, 2023, 11:25 AM
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People have dismissed conference championships but we all need to keep in mind the dynamic changes next year. We could be 8-4 but the ACC champ will have a seat at the playoff table. I, for one, will be happy to see the expanded playoffs.
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All-In [29036]
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Fair enough, I just see it differently
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Sep 12, 2023, 11:02 AM
[ in reply to We pay Dabo over $10 million a year. ] |
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We pay him what we pay him because thats the economic reality of keeping a coach who runs a program that brings in the money it does, has shown they are capable of winning it all, and graduates players while not embarrassing the school. I'd love to win it all every year, or at least be in the conversation, but I do think holding on to that as an expectation (as a fan) is part of our fanbase being spoiled by success.
I know, its completely normal for that to be the case, and I know that the cost of attending and following Clemson has skyrocketed and that sets up increased expectations... but, I think that's a separate discussion about the health of the sport on the whole.
I also will say that I think the 10 win metric isn't something I care about in that it doesn't really mean anything (other than it being a big round number). I want us to play well, and progress as a team through the year. I want us to win every game. I want us to be the dominant team in the country.
I *expect* us to recruit and graduate players who represent Clemson well and play to the best of their abilities.
But, again, that's just my take on wants vs expectations.
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Starter [376]
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Re: We pay Dabo over $10 million a year.
Sep 12, 2023, 11:10 AM
[ in reply to We pay Dabo over $10 million a year. ] |
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Just to clarify, a lot of those "hundreds of millions we have invested" are a direct result of those +10 win seasons. TV, Bowls, Conference Championships, playoffs those monies aren't generated out of thin air. If it were the other way around, if we were in fact throwing money out of OUR pockets (to that great extent) at the program, then yes, expectations would be even higher. Ask Jimbo how it feels to be on that end of it.
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Orange Blooded [4018]
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Re: Does anyone still care about winning at least 10 games
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Sep 12, 2023, 10:21 AM
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I for one care a ton about winning 10 games
I remember we couldn’t sniff 10 wins for 20 years!
It’s a huge accomplishment
I think it’s a little easier these days with more games and the ACC being a little down, but it’s still huge.
If our down/rebuilding/reloading years are 10 wins, that’s big time and needs to be recognized.
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Athletic Dir [858]
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Tell 'em coot. No one knows losing better than you.***
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Sep 12, 2023, 10:34 AM
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Orange Blooded [2879]
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Re: Does anyone still care about winning at least 10 games
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Sep 12, 2023, 10:49 AM
[ in reply to Re: Does anyone still care about winning at least 10 games ] |
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I don’t think 10 wins is a valid metric to take back 100+ yrs. The vast majority of those seasons were 11 games or less. Now days a bowl eligible season means 13 games or more. It’s really not a valid metric unless you limit it to 12 game seasons (starting with 11 games + a bowl game). Even then we had decades where a 9-2 season may not have resulted in a bowl game invite with so many bigger blue blood schools taking all the available slots.
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110%er [6905]
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Just like going to a bowl game is no longer a valid
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Sep 12, 2023, 10:59 AM
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Metric of success. It used to mean something!
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Heisman Winner [134724]
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I do. I hope it continues a long time!!!!!***
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Sep 12, 2023, 10:24 AM
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CU Medallion [52493]
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Re: Does anyone still care about winning at least 10 games
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Sep 12, 2023, 10:49 AM
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Yes!
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Orange Blooded [4791]
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Re: Does anyone still care about winning at least 10 games
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Sep 12, 2023, 10:55 AM
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I think it's a nice streak to refer to as proof of a consistently good to great program and since it's about the only one we have left we should enjoy it while we can.
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110%er [5579]
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Re: Does anyone still care about winning at least 10 games
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Sep 12, 2023, 10:57 AM
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Unfortunately, you're preaching to the choir.
We live in a world where Up is Down, Evil is Good, and Male or Female is confusing to some; is it a wonder some people are unable to grasp the truth?
All the mentally infirmed/corrupt can now congregate on the internet. They used to be hospitalized and shunned from society. Now, they feed off each other.
Bad ideas were shot down in the public square, and bad behavior was frowned upon. Now, the truth will get you fired and being a moron is cause celebration.
Decency, appreciation, civility, honesty, rational thought, humility, discernment, self-control, thoughtfulness, etc...? It won't be found on the internet, and since the internet drives narratives....back to your point. You're right.
Dabo is falling victim to his own success, and it's worse than ever in 2023.
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Walk-On [143]
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Re: Does anyone still care about winning at least 10 games
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Sep 12, 2023, 11:27 AM
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I want to win as many games as we can. The reason it matters is there's a narrative being built that Clemson is in a decline and if we go 8-4 it will only fuel that narrative. Opposing coaches will use that to negatively recruit Clemson and it will effect our ability to recruit a top-10 caliber class.
One game at a time. Take care of business against FAU and then give FSU hell.
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Orange Blooded [3663]
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I do especially with what Dabo has done
Sep 12, 2023, 11:36 AM
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GO TIGERS
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Replies: 35
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