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110%er [6153]
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Do OL really EXPECT to start as true freshmen? If so, why?
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Jul 12, 2023, 3:31 PM
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… if so, WHY?
In the past 20 years … as weak as TNetters want to paint our OL … only two guys have started the season opener as true freshmen.
Mitch Hyatt and Blake Miller.
Both of those guys were exceptions to the rule. Hyatt started because he was ready and we had no legit left tackle in the squad. Miller started because he was also ready and he’s just plain nasty.
So … once again … as “bad” as our OL has been, only two true Clemson freshman have come in and immediately taken a starting spot in two decades+ …
In general, if opposing coaches are using promises of starting right away as freshmen to sign OL, then that speaks volumes about their veracity or their overall recruiting.
Are they lying, or do their previous OL recruits just stink?
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Orange Blooded [2494]
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Re: Do OL really EXPECT to start as true freshmen? If so, why?
Jul 12, 2023, 3:43 PM
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I believe Sean Pollard did too at right tackle the year after Mitch Hyatt's freshman year.
He did not start the opener (after doing research after my original post above).... was splitting time with Anchrum. But... by the fifth game vs Cuse through the natty was the starter at RT. He was there the best years 2016-2019... played 4 seasons, 4 CFPs, 3 National champ games, 2 natties, 4 ACC championships.
https://clemsontigers.com/sports/football/roster/sean-pollard/
The depth chart vs Troy shows Pollard behind Jake Frenenbaum.... didn't that guy transfer? Anchrum was lsted as Hyatt's backup. That was a rough game, but that year Troy would have beat just about any D1 team outside of the top 20.
Message was edited by: bobbyb99®
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110%er [6153]
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Orange Blooded [2494]
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Legend [19643]
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Jake Fruhmorgen was encouraged to leave
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Jul 12, 2023, 5:33 PM
[ in reply to Didn’t that occur because the starter Jake Fruhmorgen quit? ] |
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because his father was a big pain to the staff and had unrealistic expectations of how his son should be treated.
Fruhmorgen was a highly rated recruit with tons of potential but wasn't worth the baggage.
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110%er [7221]
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Re: Jake Fruhmorgen was encouraged to leave
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Jul 12, 2023, 5:39 PM
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Those Sports dads are aggravating as all get out. On every level, their kid plays. Especially, if that parent has unrealistic expectations or are living vicariously through their child.
Having coached and ref'd in my day. They are the absolute worst! Giving their kid different instructions than what the coach is giving. Not fully understanding the scheme and how things might be getting set up.
Not all are bad! The ones who keep it real with their kids and who are honest and realistic do a great job! The ones who allow their kids to be coached are great as well.
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All-American [584]
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Re: Jake Fruhmorgen was encouraged to leave
Jul 13, 2023, 12:28 AM
[ in reply to Jake Fruhmorgen was encouraged to leave ] |
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Interesting, always wondered what the actual story was behind Fruhmorgen's sudden free fall & exodus.He was highly (high4☆)rated & impressive as a true freshman but after departing is oddly ever mentioned, so your account tracks. Thought I remembered his reason for departure was initially cited as emotional difficulties. I believe he transferred, with little success, to a school out west maybe even Hawaii. Cannot recall with any certainty.
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CU Guru [1117]
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Re: Do OL really EXPECT to start as true freshmen? If so, why?
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Jul 12, 2023, 3:43 PM
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Exceptional 5 stars perhaps. But they are as rare as football trophies in the coot trophy case
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CU Medallion [64693]
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More likely promises of NIL $$$$***
Jul 12, 2023, 4:51 PM
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All-In [46783]
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Re: Do OL really EXPECT to start as true freshmen? If so, why?
Jul 12, 2023, 4:57 PM
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Lying by saying if you continue to play well you’ll start statements,
If anyone plays good enough they’ll start, I don’t think Dabo is playing or 💰 paying this game!
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CU Guru [1117]
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Re: Do OL really EXPECT to start as true freshmen? If so, why?
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Jul 12, 2023, 4:59 PM
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Mitch Hyatt did and at LT to boot. First time since 1969
I believe. Don,t quote me on that but several decades for sure.
Held his own too for the most part. Probably could've play pro ball
for some time but if I recall correctly he had difficulty adding weight.
Nice problem to have ordinarily.
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110%er [6153]
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Agree. And Hyatt is discussed in depth in the OP …
Jul 12, 2023, 5:21 PM
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Along with Blake Miller.
Two exceptions to the general rule.
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110%er [5108]
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Re: Agree. And Hyatt is discussed in depth in the OP …
Jul 12, 2023, 5:41 PM
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Blake Miller was lost for much of his first year. He whiffed on more blocks than I could count early on. He did get his act together and became a much better player, but to say he was ready day one is not correct.
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110%er [7221]
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Re: Agree. And Hyatt is discussed in depth in the OP …
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Jul 12, 2023, 5:46 PM
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Hopefully, that means, "Ba-la-kay" learned and grew through fire! In year two, he puts it all together and is dominant.
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110%er [6153]
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Miller was ready physically and mentally. He just needed
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Jul 12, 2023, 5:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: Agree. And Hyatt is discussed in depth in the OP … ] |
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actual experience.
To say he was “lost” is an exaggeration. But, your observation serves to reinforce my overall thinking that true freshmen are almost always unprepared to start from day one.
He started for a reason … he has an huge mean & nasty streak that you can’t teach. He was ready as a freshman can be, even though he may have undergone some on-the-job training regarding technique.
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110%er [5108]
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Re: Miller was ready physically and mentally. He just needed
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Jul 12, 2023, 6:15 PM
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Early on, when a DT faked outside and went inside or DE faked inside and went around the outside..... yes, he was lost.... about as lost as an OT can be. Much of it was due to his footwork, which improved drastically within a few games - and that is a tribute to coaching and his effort. He learned quickly, but he was not ready Day 1.
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All-American [584]
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Re: Miller was ready physically and mentally. He just needed
Jul 13, 2023, 12:42 AM
[ in reply to Miller was ready physically and mentally. He just needed ] |
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He started out of necessity, as I'm sure the coaches would have been more comfortable heading into last season with Parks at right tackle but weren't comfortable with IOL position. Yes, I recall the move being "all Park's idea" which is possible—he seems extremely if not abnormally mature & highly intelligent during interviews—
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110%er [7221]
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Good Points DW!
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Jul 12, 2023, 5:29 PM
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OL is far and away the hardest position to recruit for. If I cared enough to spend the time(and I do not) the data is out there about the following: "there is a great deal of 2 and 3-star OL in the NFL" more than any other position. Why? Because, many five-star players "filled out early" and dominated in H.S.
And many, not all of those types:
*Never had to learn good techniques to look good; they just used their size.
*Didn't have that extra gear; because they never needed to develop it. So, working out and getting bigger and the like sometimes is an issue.
*Plateau athletically.
All that to say: I don't know why a kid would ever think they could come in Day 1 and start over a kid that has been on campus and in a college S.S.C program. They are getting bad advice or have heard everyone near them tell them how great they are. Either way, most kids who are grounded and self-aware "know better" and most, likely expect to R.S.
If a kid has NFL dreams - why not spend a year getting bigger/faster/stronger "in college" while getting better at your technique as an OL?
Long-term - it's better for them! IDK. Great question.
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Head Coach [752]
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Re: Good Points DW!
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Jul 13, 2023, 9:41 AM
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HillRockTiger® You are 100% on point.
The best thing for everyone is that Freshmen OL Redshirt. Of course if you are a competitor you are going to want to play, but any HS OL kid with half a brain knows that a RS year should be expected and actually is for the best. Absolute unicorns excepted, burning a frosh OL RS is done to help the team to the detriment of the individual player.
I don't know if many casual fans realize how big of a jump it is from being a D1-level OL prospect in HS playing against mostly non-D1 prospect opposing players to going against a 20 something year old 4th or 5th year year D1 college defender who is projected to be drafted after the season. The speed of the game, and intensity level play after play is several levels above anything experienced in HS. That massive bump in intensity starts with pre-season activities. And for many kids its a significant emotional event.
The getting bigger/stronger that naturally comes to males as they progress from their teens into their 20's and 30's is maximized during the RS year. If you are RS then there is no need to constrain in-season S&C. No need to worry about being too sore or tired to be practice at the highest level or to sore or tired to play on Saturdays. No need to travel on thursday or friday to away games. Strngth building can continue all season long and Friday and Saturdays are available for lifts.
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110%er [7221]
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Re: Do OL really EXPECT to start as true freshmen? If so, why?
Jul 15, 2023, 11:39 AM
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Your last sentence? A little bit of both.
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