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All-TigerNet [5818]
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110%er [3600]
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Wow. Eye opening.***
Jul 3, 2024, 12:36 PM
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null
Message was edited by: TruTiger®
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Rival Killer [3079]
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Re: Read this and grind your teeth
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Jul 3, 2024, 12:38 PM
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I love dabo, but this is a joke. Get with the times or fall behind. What kid would turn down life changing money to play for dabo? It is absolutely delusional that dabo thinks that he doesn't need to do these things to compete
We are trying to compete with other teams without using the portal or nil during recruiting. We are losing starters on our team and replacing them with freshmen.
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All-TigerNet [5643]
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What impactful starters have we lost? I'll hang up and listen***
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Jul 3, 2024, 1:33 PM
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Valley Legend [12289]
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Rival Killer [3079]
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Re: What impactful starters have we lost? I'll hang up and listen***
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Jul 3, 2024, 2:45 PM
[ in reply to What impactful starters have we lost? I'll hang up and listen*** ] |
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Mukuba and beaux collins this past year. If we lose 2 starters a year, and dont replace them with somebody from the portal, that is a net negative to your program.
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CU Medallion [19495]
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Re: What impactful starters have we lost? I'll hang up and listen***
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Jul 3, 2024, 2:48 PM
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We are replacing both of them with rising Sophomores, Juniors, and Seniors from right here in the program, along with whatever Dudes arrive as Freshmen. Sorry you can't grasp that simple mathematical equation. It's not for everyone.
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Valley Legend [12289]
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And other programs don't have rising Sophomores, juniors, or seniors
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Jul 3, 2024, 4:29 PM
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That contribute to their programs. Texas already has great recruits that they're augmenting with another great transfer that they got from our roster which results in an advantage we don't have.
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CU Medallion [19495]
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Not like ours they don't.
Jul 3, 2024, 7:52 PM
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That should seem obvious considering our risers are all from scratch. No one else can claim that.
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Valley Legend [12289]
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Yeah they do
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Jul 3, 2024, 8:31 PM
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Bama, Jawja, Texas, 0310 state,…have actually recruited better than us over the last few years. They’re not losing all of those great players to the portal because they’re destination schools. If you think we’re retaining more 4 and 5 star players than the teams competing for national titles than you’re misinformed.
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Tiger Titan [47998]
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You arent following the playbook.
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Jul 4, 2024, 4:52 AM
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What you’re supposed to say is that we don’t lose many players to the portal, and when we do, they are either insignificant players, have bad attitudes, or went elsewhere because they were offered more money.
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CU Medallion [19495]
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No, they don't.
Jul 4, 2024, 10:27 AM
[ in reply to Yeah they do ] |
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Nobody has a team wholly comprised of homegrown talent like we do. So you are wrong - the others you're mentioning do not. Period. Sorry that you are struggling so much to grasp a very simple truth here.
Your last sentence isn't what's being debated. Those programs have pretty much always out recruited us - including over our historic run, and sure they have more 4 and 5-star players on average - that's been the norm for a long time.
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Valley Legend [12289]
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Yeah we're just gonna have to let this discussion go because what you're saying
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Jul 4, 2024, 11:14 AM
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Is just false and we're never gonna come to a consensus. Having 100% of your roster made up of high school recruits is not an advantage. Having a transfer WR who can catch back shoulder throws like Tee Higgins wins games. Having a "homegrown" player who can't do that loses them; no matter how good he is on the VLOG. Jawja and Michigan aren't 50% made up of transfers they get a few guys to augment the top 10 recruiting classes they have already signed. The elite teams are gaining much more from the portal than they're losing; we're getting nothing from it. We've lost enough games over the last few years to teams who have been improved by transfers for everyone to clearly see it's a problem. If you don't see that it's simply because you don't want to.
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CU Medallion [19495]
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Reread the above with better reading comprehension skills please.
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Jul 4, 2024, 4:24 PM
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Or don't. You're all over the map avoiding acknowledging that no other program in the FBS has a full roster of kids recruited directly from high school that have been with and committed to one single program from Day One. Those on the roster today haven't quit anyone or jumped ship. No other program can claim that. Dabo clearly feels that he and his staff are better at identifying talent and fits from the start, and that they are pros at development following that.
For the record also - all college players are high school recruits. Some quit / leave a program after and seek greener pastures elsewhere. Dabo has offered some of these at positions where he feels we could use a boost. He also trusts his coaches to take stock of who they have in their pipeline in the program and their confidence in enough stepping up and performing at our expected level. He is clearly as selective in the transfer realm as he is on HS directs, and you can rest assured he will not tamper (cheat). Hope that doesn't bug you, regardless if others are doing it or not. If the few that we offer that fit needs and parameters pass, then so be it and next man up within.
Personally, I put much more stock in Dabo's recruiting process being hampered by Covid's in-person limits over several classes playing a role in our current non-historic period. It's easy for many to forget that only two seasons ago we fell one game short of a Final 4 appearance. DJU, the most vilified QB in Clemson history, was on the Heisman watch list posting DW4 and TL16 YTD numbers after starting 8-0 in 2022, a winning streak going back to 2021 spanning 14 games. We currently have the nation's 3rd-longest winning streak, and our D is on the verge of a "Brent Who?" season ahead.
It's easy to point a finger at what looks most obvious then run with it. Certainly many are in your camp in your beliefs. Looks can be deceiving though, and I absolutely put my trust in someone who has masterminded this game, delivered not only a mountaintop visit but a historic perfect season following that success, and who has been very clear about his motives and foundation since Day One and stuck with it through both storms and sunny days.
Happy 4th!
Go Tigers!
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Valley Protector [1486]
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Clemson Conqueror [11947]
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Re: What impactful starters have we lost? I'll hang up and listen***
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Jul 3, 2024, 3:27 PM
[ in reply to Re: What impactful starters have we lost? I'll hang up and listen*** ] |
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Collins was probably going to be beaten out by a younger and better player. Mukuba just wanted to be closer to home. There is no indication that neither of them left because of a big pot of money waiting for them.
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Paw Master [17333]
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Rival Killer [3079]
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Re: Mukuba was a Freshman AA and a 3 year starter***
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Jul 3, 2024, 4:19 PM
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😂😂 exactly. Why are we trying to downplay all of our transfers out?
Beaux collins was a multi year starter and dabo said he was an nfl WR. Its hard to judge any of our WR's based on our horrific qb play over the last 3 years,
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CU Medallion [19495]
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Your post referenced starters - not 'all our transfers'.
Jul 3, 2024, 8:43 PM
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All the rest are being replaced with those who haven't given up on breaking through the wall yet. Beaux didn't pan out and wanted to start fresh. Are you going to miss him in our offense?
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Paw Warrior [4859]
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Re: What impactful starters have we lost? I'll hang up and listen***
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Jul 3, 2024, 5:03 PM
[ in reply to What impactful starters have we lost? I'll hang up and listen*** ] |
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I believe it’s the recruits we’re losing more so than the starters, though we’ve taken hits there as well. If not using all the resources available (NIL, Portal) while the other top programs are .. we’re like a one legged man in a donkey kicking contest ..
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Trainer [-99]
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Orange Beast [6411]
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Re: Read this and grind your teeth
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Jul 3, 2024, 3:32 PM
[ in reply to Re: Read this and grind your teeth ] |
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They are not turning down life changing money but, just delaying it. Right now a high school recruit can be paid NIL to commit, enroll in Jan., enter the portal in the spring, and never play a down of football at the school that paid him. I am thinking that Mafah, PWoo, and others have been paid a good bit of money to stay.
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Orange Blooded [2103]
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Re: Read this and grind your teeth
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Jul 3, 2024, 6:18 PM
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Ding ding ding
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Paw Master [16420]
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Re: Read this and grind your teeth
Jul 3, 2024, 6:45 PM
[ in reply to Re: Read this and grind your teeth ] |
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Sanders learned at the elite recruiting event, if not before during the recruiting process, Clemson's policy on NIL. Afterwards, he talks about how great Clemson is and checks all the boxes but now wants to hold the program hostage for upfront money? Does "HE" really check all the boxes as a Tiger?
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Tiger Titan [47998]
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Come on, youre better than this.***
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Jul 4, 2024, 4:54 AM
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Clemson Icon [24083]
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Paw Master [17512]
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Re: Read this and grind your teeth
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Jul 3, 2024, 5:39 PM
[ in reply to Re: Read this and grind your teeth ] |
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Just look at the same old cast of clowns flocking to this thread to trash Dabo. Just low iq moths to the flame.
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Orange Blooded [2210]
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Re: Read this and grind your teeth
Jul 4, 2024, 2:24 AM
[ in reply to Re: Read this and grind your teeth ] |
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I thought it was against the rules for the coaching staff to be involved with NIL?
A CU booster needs pay Sanders a visit.
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Valley Protector [1486]
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Guidelines and no sanctioning body****
Jul 4, 2024, 6:09 PM
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Tiger Spirit [9809]
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All-TigerNet [5804]
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Son of a #####!
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Jul 3, 2024, 12:58 PM
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We’re fighting with one hand tied behind our back. Get with the times!
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110%er [3821]
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Re: Read this and grind your teeth
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Jul 3, 2024, 1:02 PM
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The article quotes Dabo as not wanting players to have a "transactional relationship" with Clemson. All scholarship players have a transactional relationship with the school. By its nature the scholarship is transactional.
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All-In [10560]
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Re: Read this and grind your teeth
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Jul 3, 2024, 1:14 PM
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Not surprised that you missed the point.
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110%er [3821]
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Re: Read this and grind your teeth
Jul 3, 2024, 1:16 PM
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Happy not to disappoint you...I guess.
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Legend [7077]
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It goes back to the All In moniker that he has had for years.
Jul 3, 2024, 7:02 PM
[ in reply to Re: Read this and grind your teeth ] |
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Dabo is looking for players that want to be at Clemson rather than just being paid to be at Clemson, maybe only for a year, if they jump into the portal. I think it is a burden all coaches have now and it is really painful if you have put a lot of energy into an athlete and then they jump ship for a better deal. No doubt that was the point Coach was trying to make in this case.
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110%er [3821]
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Re: It goes back to the All In moniker that he has had for years.
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Jul 4, 2024, 5:50 AM
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I understand Dabo is referring to financial transactions. My point is scholarships are transactional. The school and player each gets something for something. It's just now that "something" can include money. That seems to bother people here a great deal. Everyone reading and replying to these posts have made decisions based to some degree on money. Those same people question the integrity of an 18 year old, who may not come from much in terms of money, for factoring money into his decisions.
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Campus Hero [13693]
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Re: Read this and grind your teeth
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Jul 3, 2024, 1:16 PM
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More than anything, article serves as a very depressing commentary on the sport they call College football.
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Game Changer [2018]
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Re: Read this and grind your teeth
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Jul 3, 2024, 1:30 PM
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there isn't anything of substance in the article to point to us not landing Sanders because of money. Just a bunch of hand ringing about his stance on NIL.
Yes, we've missed on some big time players but that is nothing new for us since 09. Were typically in the top 15, maybe top 10, rarely top 5.
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Rival Killer [2721]
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That's fine. Prove yourself before getting paid. No buying pigs in a poke***
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Jul 3, 2024, 1:37 PM
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Legend [6916]
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I asked this yesterday, how does Dabo even have a say
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Jul 3, 2024, 1:58 PM
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Im not up on all the rules, but arent these NIL collectives operating outside and independent of the school. How can Dabo dictate where a collective can and cannot use the money they have raised? He can make requests, but unless im missing something, couldnt the collective tell him to pound sand if they wanted to. Not saying I totally agree with outsiders sidestepping the coach, but could they. If a Clemson collective offered the money to Sanders do you really think Dabo would pull his offer?
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CU Medallion [19325]
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Re: I asked this yesterday, how does Dabo even have a say
Jul 3, 2024, 2:15 PM
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I was thinking the same thing. We need to step up as TigerNet and offer Sanders a NIL deal to promote the website. Time for all of us to put our money where our mouth / typing is. ALL IN!
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CU Medallion [19495]
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The writer contradicts his message within the first paragraph of his 'story'.
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Jul 3, 2024, 2:16 PM
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"Uses NIL for retention, not acquisition" in the preamble then immediately clarifies that Dabo simply doesn't 'lead' with NIL for HS recruits.
If David Sanders wants to 'get paid' right away before contributing anything to a program, not 'take a chance' on his own abilities at the next level, then so be it. Hope it works out for him wherever he chooses.
Go Tigers.
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Asst Coach [843]
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Re: The writer contradicts his message within the first paragraph of his 'story'.
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Jul 3, 2024, 3:25 PM
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Good luck trying to win with that attitude. From the looks of it Clemson is the only one trying to win that way and so far it’s not working out.
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Clemson Conqueror [11947]
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Re: The writer contradicts his message within the first paragraph of his 'story'.
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Jul 3, 2024, 3:30 PM
[ in reply to The writer contradicts his message within the first paragraph of his 'story'. ] |
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I thought the same thing. Do we really want players who are not confident enough and secure enough in the abilities that they can't compete for playing time and then being rewarded for their contribution. There have been many many 5-star busts over the years where upfront money would have been totally wasted.
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Dynasty Maker [3440]
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Re: Read this and grind your teeth
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Jul 3, 2024, 2:38 PM
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I agree with Dabo on his idea about the BEST way to run a program. In a perfect world he is right on with the NIL used for retention. BUT it’s not that way right now so he must loosen up a little. It’s sad that we and everyone else has to do this to remain at the top. On the flip side, I also see where the recruits are coming from and don’t blame them one bit for trying to get as much money as they can. I want what’s best for the football program and I respect Dabo for the way he’s ran our program but we also must stay relevant too.
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Orange Blooded [2269]
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Re: Read this and grind your teeth
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Jul 3, 2024, 3:22 PM
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Yes because bending what Dabo believes is right and what he has done thus far would never alienate current players. No 18 to 22 year old has ever gotten jealous, envious or vindictive especially guys who have bled and sacrificed for this program and do it all just to get David Sanders who could very well be a bust. Yeah he's pretty good in Charlotte, N.C. high school football but the issue is for Dabo to start to get into bidding wars he has to have the backing with, you know, money. Unfortunately Clemson fans aren't into to just giving their money away. Which is funny bc I bet every person on here who complains about NIL don't give a dang cent. Yes go ahead and tell me how much you give behind your anonymous handle, I promise I'll believe you. This isn't a "and" situation it's an "or" one. Either you're going to buy unknown high school players OR you're going to pay to retain your own players. This isn't about Dabo changing his ways it's about Dabo doing what he has to to keep Clemson relevant. To do what some of you want Clemson would become South Carolina, losing a third of the team and replacing them with lower level ACC and FCS players. But yeah let's do that just to get David Sanders.
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Clemson Conqueror [11947]
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Re: Read this and grind your teeth
Jul 3, 2024, 3:32 PM
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There are plenty of programs handing out money and getting recruits and portal players that would like to be in the position that we are in. Florida is one example.
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1st Rounder [633]
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Re: Read this and grind your teeth
Jul 3, 2024, 3:50 PM
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Grind my teeth at original post.
Dabo vs. David? Really? Dabo has proved himself over and over. Who is this David?
Tiring and exhausting.
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Tiger Titan [47998]
TigerPulse: 77%
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Dabo hasnt really proven anything since NIL happened.
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Jul 3, 2024, 4:39 PM
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All he’s shown is that his way results in an underachieving football team.
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Clemson Icon [25054]
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Re: Dabo hasnt really proven anything since NIL happened.
Jul 3, 2024, 7:43 PM
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Save this response and get back with us at the end of the year.
Will look forward to your thoughts when the season's done!
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Tiger Titan [47998]
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I hope we have a great year and are one of the best teams in the country.
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Jul 4, 2024, 4:58 AM
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But even if we are, that would still just be one in the last four years when we met expectations. That’s not very good for a coach who is the second highest paid in the country, with a huge budget for assistants, excellent facilities, and high level success within the last decade.
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CU Medallion [19495]
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Dabo won an ACC Championship in 2022 and was one win away from the Final 4
Jul 3, 2024, 11:21 PM
[ in reply to Dabo hasnt really proven anything since NIL happened. ] |
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then, like our hoops team this year.
Currently Dabo's team has the 3rd longest winning streak in the FBS. Only Soccer can top that among all of our other programs.
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Paw Warrior [4883]
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Very frustrating***
Jul 3, 2024, 3:53 PM
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1st Rounder [602]
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Re: Read this and grind your teeth
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Jul 3, 2024, 4:04 PM
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I understand both perspectives. Dabo wants players who will be " All In " with all aspects of the Clemson football program (family, education, on & off field development) and who aren't solely driven by money. Sanders and players like him understand, realize there is a short shelf life on how much they can financially benefit from their athletic skills. At this point right now, it appears the players have the edge. Colleges/ universities are institutions. They will always be there. A player can always go back and get a degree later in life. It happens all the time. The financial opportunity to benefit off athletic ability is very short. If Dabo chooses not to change and the program doesn't improve on its performance over the last 3 years, the BOD's, school president, AD, and influential boosters have a decision to make. Is it acceptable to pay Dabo and his staff the big salaries and it not translate to CFB appearances and championships? Time will till........until then, GO TIGERS defeat UGA on August 31st in the Georgia Dome!!! ENOUGH SAID!!!
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110%er [4017]
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Dabo said early on in his career I'd rather lose the right way
Jul 3, 2024, 4:14 PM
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then win the wrong way. To expect something else if foolish. I don't know what he considers right vs wrong, but NIL buying recruits is part of the wrong way from what I see. I don't see he still coaching in 5 years as "college football" will be unrecognizable.
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Legend [7047]
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Is the wrong way the illegal way?***
Jul 3, 2024, 5:03 PM
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Athletic Dir [1157]
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I would hate to see the staff become frustrated
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Jul 3, 2024, 4:26 PM
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Because they aren’t playing on a legal playing field. The coaches are competitive recruiters and love to win this battles
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Tiger Titan [47998]
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Dabos stance is inexcusable for a program that wants to be elite.
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Jul 3, 2024, 4:36 PM
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He is one of the highest paid coaches in the country. His job is to make us the best we can be, on and off the field.
His current stance on NIL is preventing him from doing that.
I am tired of this notion that all players who seek NIL deals are bad kids who are only about the money. A top prospect can choose from at least a dozen programs that offer good coaching, academic support, facilities, etc. All of these programs will prepare him for the NFL and for life. He would be a fool to choose the one that doesn’t offer him money when he can make what amounts to life-changing money elsewhere.
There are plenty of great kids out there who want to be model student-athletes who also want to maximize their financial position while they can. There is nothing wrong with that.
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CU Medallion [19860]
TigerPulse: 100%
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No one makes more money than Dabo's Coaches
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Jul 3, 2024, 4:50 PM
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It may be time to provide a slice of the pie to TALENTED o-linemen. Realignment will help.
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All-In [10864]
TigerPulse: 100%
45
Posts: 12214
Joined: 1999
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So, in general, when a high school athlete is being recruited, part of the sales
Jul 3, 2024, 5:39 PM
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pitch now is - "This is how much we're going to pay you to play for our University?"
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Dynasty Maker [3440]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: So, in general, when a high school athlete is being recruited, part of the sales
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Jul 3, 2013, 9:41 PM
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Yep unfortunately it is if you want the top recruits who are being recruited by schools with wealthy donors.
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Legend [7052]
TigerPulse: 100%
41
Posts: 10670
Joined: 2003
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Re: Read this and grind your teeth
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Jul 3, 2024, 10:24 PM
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The game changed. Dabo didn't. Unless he does, we will keep having years like last year.
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CU Medallion [18000]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Posts: 26757
Joined: 2006
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theres a reason bama didnt go after dabo***
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Jul 3, 2024, 10:56 PM
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Tiger Titan [47998]
TigerPulse: 77%
58
Posts: 35587
Joined: 2003
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Can you blame them?
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Jul 4, 2024, 5:02 AM
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He has gone out of his way to bash the transfer portal and NIL, and uses neither one with any passion or desire to make his team better.
That isn’t going to result in high level success in this day and age.
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110%er [4030]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Again - the premise of your complaint is that CU has an INFINITE well of
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Jul 4, 2024, 6:45 AM
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NIL money at its disposal and can PAY ANY PRICE.
I simply don’t believe that is true. Has there been anything published that shows that Clemson has a NIL network of $50M per year ready to be doled out to 5* players? I haven’t seen it if it has been published.
My perception is that Clemson has a SMALL NIL network for the South Carolina upstate, and an even smaller network of companies NATIONALLY that can fund NIL contracts.
College football is PURELY about how much money a player can get now to play for a particular school. I laugh and dismiss any and all of these recruits who talk about culture, family-atmosphere, development, education, etc. I don’t buy into a single word of it.
These recruits and portal players are after one thing, pure and simple, and it ain’t about running down the hill.
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Associate AD [1034]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: you know what? F these guys
Dec 2, 2013, 9:04 PM
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They've achieved nothing, other than graduating high school and demanding millions?
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Paw Warrior [4838]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Totally disagree
Jul 4, 2024, 10:35 AM
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Clemson has NIL money—we are ranked 18th actually in NIL funds. Clemson is about Clemson—the people, the coaches, the fans, and more importantly, life.
I get these top guys want money, but at the end of the day, you either want Clemson most or you don’t. You either want money most or you don’t. Clemson will always be after the players who want Clemson most.
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