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Team Captain [474]
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NIL
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Oct 22, 2024, 10:48 AM
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Anybody else notice that now that you can pay players all of the rich schools are just magically top 25? Miami A&M Oregon Texas. Pretty soon we will get to a point where it will be the same 4 teams winning everything. This isn’t something you get to just go back on. You’ve payed the players. For the rest of history you will pay players. It’s sad to see the sport I’ve loved for many years being burnt down over greed right in front of me. It’s an absolute disaster and it takes away everything that used to mean something about the sport.
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Orange Beast [6511]
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Re: NIL
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Oct 22, 2024, 11:00 AM
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Miami, A&M, Oregon, and Texas were perennial Top 25 teams for a long time prior to NIL.
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Heisman Winner [79029]
TigerPulse: 100%
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They were (gasp) paying players back then, too. It was just in McDonalds brown
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Oct 22, 2024, 11:07 AM
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bags instead of above the table. And no, I am not naive enough to think Clemson was not doing, or at least attempting to do, the same thing. I know from a relative of someone who was there, we got laughed out of Herschel Walker's living room because our brown bag was way too light for the bidding that was going on.
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Athletic Dir [1170]
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Miami isn't necessarily one of the rich schools. Yeah they have a couple
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Oct 22, 2024, 11:36 AM
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boosters who are willing to fund most everything, but its a small alumni base school.
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
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They have the money to pay Mario C $80 mil
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Oct 22, 2024, 11:42 AM
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and give a ton of NIL $$$ to Cam Ward.
They also had the money and caché to lure Radakovich away from us.
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Ultimate Tiger [38027]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: They have the money to pay Mario C $80 mil
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Oct 22, 2024, 5:16 PM
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Rad went to Miami, and was always going back. Got to be close to retirement.
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Ultimate Tiger [38027]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Miami isn't necessarily one of the rich schools. Yeah they have a couple
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Oct 22, 2024, 5:22 PM
[ in reply to Miami isn't necessarily one of the rich schools. Yeah they have a couple ] |
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They have high profile guys that played in the NFL that help out a great deal. There are a few other ways they are getting that money as well. I will just say there are some wealthy folk in Miami, and their players have been paid since the 80’s.
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Athletic Dir [1135]
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [99538]
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Bluffton OrangeMan ain't gonna like this***
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Oct 22, 2024, 11:03 AM
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
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It's not a matter of like or dislike.
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Oct 22, 2024, 11:28 AM
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It's a matter of that post being a disconnect from reality.
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Team Captain [474]
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Re: It's not a matter of like or dislike.
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Oct 22, 2024, 12:41 PM
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A disconnect from the current reality sure. “They’re just good teams this year” or whatever you wanna say. However the sport has changed and will continue to spiral. You can enjoy it now but you won’t enjoy it in a decade.
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
TigerPulse: 75%
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Where to start in that list of canards...
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Oct 22, 2024, 12:47 PM
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In reverse order...
1. I'll continue to enjoy it for my life time.
2. Your projecting your unhappiness is meaningless to my outlook.
3. The sport isn't spiraling.
4. The sport can't continue a spiral that is t happening.
5. "They're just good teams..." is a Strawman logical fallacy. It's a blatant attempt to put words in my mouth.
6. The only thing you hit right there was that the sport has changed. However, it has changed for the better. See my list of positives elsewhere for the evidence.
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Dynasty Maker [3565]
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Re: Where to start in that list of canards...
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Oct 22, 2024, 4:21 PM
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Another logical fallacy would be that NIL has only brought positives, no negatives, doesnt have problems in its current form and there can't be negatives that take years to fully form.
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
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That's a Strawman argument******
Oct 24, 2024, 12:34 PM
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Dynasty Maker [3565]
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Re: That's a Strawman argument******
Oct 24, 2024, 12:39 PM
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Wrong.
It is the other side of your mantra of "Everything is fine" with respect to Transfer Portal, NIL, collectives, etc.
Have you considered that many of those that you are so quick to shout down actually don't have an issue with the intent of NIL, or TP but they hold a belief these things in their current form have issues that need to be acknowledged and addressed?
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Top TigerNet [29728]
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Ultimate Tiger [38027]
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Re: Where to start in that list of canards...
Oct 22, 2024, 5:02 PM
[ in reply to Where to start in that list of canards... ] |
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Texas has just gotten back in the mix in the last few years. Coincidence?
Oregon has Nike
OSU and the real USC have large alumni
Georgia has always been corrupt. Throw Miami in there as well.
There will be I’m thinking 8 teams probably less that can win the whole deal with the finances they currently have available to them. Throw in 4 out of the top 5 and I will add Bama, Tenn, Texas A&M and Notre Dame.
If competitive balance is not important than yes the sport is heading in the right direction. It’s really not rocket science and mind blowing that folks think the current direction is good for the sport. Players can still be paid and there be a balance.
Bluffton I know you think differently and that’s fine but you sure seem to be in the minority on this deal, and it’s the same thing with buddies that follow the sport that are not part of TNet. Just never hear anyone else with your opinion. Hoping you are right but common sense tells me there are changes coming.
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Orange Beast [6511]
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Re: Where to start in that list of canards...
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Oct 22, 2024, 5:25 PM
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From 2015-2022, a span of 8 years before NIL really took off, there were only 4 different national champions.
In those 8 games, there were 16 teams, but only 7 unique teams (Alabama, Clemson, Georgia, LSU, Ohio St, Georgia, TCU). So, 16 opportunities for spots, and only 7 different teams made it.
The sport was already top heavy. NIL isn't going to change that. It might change some of the names at the top - it's always been a bit cyclical - but it won't destroy parity...because there wasn't any.
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Ultimate Tiger [38027]
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Re: Where to start in that list of canards...
Oct 22, 2024, 5:42 PM
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I’m looking more at the parity with going against Oregon, Texas and tOSU money. I feel that will knock us out of being on par with those schools that can purchase more 5 stars. We are trying to retain and they just buy more.
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
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Re: Where to start in that list of canards...
Oct 23, 2024, 8:01 AM
[ in reply to Re: Where to start in that list of canards... ] |
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Are convinced that Clemson is "doing things right". They are typically so invested in that belief they they freak out when any evidence to the contrary us presented.
The opposing arguments include - personal insults, speculation, "wait 10 years", logical fallacies, and arguing with legal decisions that are ridiculously easy to research.
Frankly, it's embarrassing to Clemson to have so many fans that are immune to facts, logic, and reason.
It's REALLY embarrassing to see so many that want to violate federal law, federal court decisions, and return to the bad old days of exploiting the athletes for their own entertainment.
Every other non military FBS schools has accepted the new reality. In the broader sense, that makes Clemson not only the minority, it makes the University a unicorn in the horse corral.
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All-Pro [757]
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Re: It's not a matter of like or dislike.
Oct 24, 2024, 3:29 PM
[ in reply to Re: It's not a matter of like or dislike. ] |
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You are correct, that it's getting worse and will continue to mold the college game into the NFL sub league, which defeats the purpose of what makes college football special.
People will still watch it forever, including myself, for the same reason that I hate what America is becoming, yet I will never leave. Being "more free" than anything else is the same concept as cfb is "still better" than basketball, baseball, etc. That doesn't not equal as good as it was. Relativism is plenty of justification for close minded thinkers that go with the flow regardless.
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Dynasty Maker [3507]
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FSU enters the chat
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Oct 22, 2024, 11:14 AM
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say what?
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Team Captain [474]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: FSU enters the chat
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Oct 22, 2024, 12:38 PM
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Worked pretty well for them last year. They just bought the wrong quarterback. They could’ve done what they wanted to with us if they had Cam Ward.
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
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That's pathetic gaslighting.
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Oct 22, 2024, 11:27 AM
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The greed was on the part of the schools, the NCAA, and the coaches who got rich by my exploit g tfe athletes that did the work, took the risks, and provided the market value.
Stop pining for that exploitation. It's embarrassing to Clemson.
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
TigerPulse: 75%
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Nonsense.
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Oct 22, 2024, 11:44 AM
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College football is better than ever.
More competitive games.
More parity.
More attendence.
More TV viewership.
More money.
On what planet do you reside?
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Oculus Spirit [43060]
TigerPulse: 100%
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More people are also paying more money for food than ever before too
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Oct 22, 2024, 11:51 AM
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I wouldn’t say it’s because the food is better than ever though.
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
TigerPulse: 75%
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Straight to a False Equivalence. Logical Fallacy.
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Oct 22, 2024, 12:03 PM
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People must have food.
People do not need college sports.
Survival needs (food, water, shelter) are the foundation level of Mallow hierarchy of Needs. College sports are t anywhere in it, because they are a choice, not a need.
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Oculus Spirit [43060]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Recognizing inflation and the fact
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Oct 22, 2024, 12:56 PM
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that we have a higher population than ever before is not a logical fallacy.
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
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Comparing food to entertainment = fallacy.
Oct 22, 2024, 2:27 PM
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Again, comparing a survival need to entertainment is bogus.
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Oculus Spirit [43060]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Again your assumption is wrong.
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Oct 22, 2024, 2:55 PM
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The point is not about food or entertainment. Slow down and read.
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
TigerPulse: 75%
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It was framed as a comparison. In the same post.
Oct 22, 2024, 4:11 PM
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That makes it the poster boy for "False Equivalence".
Stop trying to backstroke. It's not going to get you on the Olympic swim team.
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Oculus Spirit [43060]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Your answer is in front of you
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Oct 22, 2024, 4:44 PM
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spelled out for you and you still can’t see it. Lol
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
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Obviously I saw it.
Oct 22, 2024, 5:01 PM
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You're shilling a false equivalence.
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Oculus Spirit [43060]
TigerPulse: 100%
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I see. You still dont get it.
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Oct 22, 2024, 7:44 PM
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🤣
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National Champion [8096]
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There is very little Bluff-a-ton gets.***
Oct 22, 2024, 8:39 PM
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
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There is nothing that you get.
Oct 23, 2024, 7:48 AM
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It's pathetic. Your obsession with me is pathological.
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Team Captain [474]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Nonsense.
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Oct 22, 2024, 12:36 PM
[ in reply to Nonsense. ] |
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“Better” maybe for you. For me watching sheduer sanders walk around waving his 50k watch around is not better. This isn’t what NIL was intended to do.
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
TigerPulse: 75%
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It's EXACTLY what NIL was intended to do.
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Oct 22, 2024, 12:39 PM
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That being to let college athletes profit from their abilities, effort, risks, and fame.
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Dynasty Maker [3565]
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Re: Nonsense.
Oct 22, 2024, 4:19 PM
[ in reply to Nonsense. ] |
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Can you directly attribute these things to NIL and only NIL?
Or would that be a false equivalency?
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
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Clemson is a rich school, per ON3.
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Oct 22, 2024, 11:59 AM
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We are ranked #17 in NIL out of 131 FBS programs that have it.
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Team Captain [474]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Clemson is a rich school, per ON3.
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Oct 22, 2024, 12:31 PM
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You will see how quickly that means nothing in less than 10 years.
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
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That's ludicrous and meaningless.
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Oct 22, 2024, 12:41 PM
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Raw speculation about a decade from now in a bogus state of to deny the current facts?
SMH.
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Top TigerNet [32402]
TigerPulse: 100%
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this is ludicrous
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Oct 22, 2024, 1:34 PM
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
TigerPulse: 75%
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Doubling down on ludicrous?
Oct 22, 2024, 2:32 PM
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...with a Photoshop? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Thanks for tacit admission that I was right.
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Ring of Honor [21252]
TigerPulse: 85%
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Re: NIL
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Oct 22, 2024, 12:37 PM
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Those schools have been top 25 normally for decades. NIL didn't change that.
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Top TigerNet [32402]
TigerPulse: 100%
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"The SPORT" is as popular as ever. The "student" part of student athlete
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Oct 22, 2024, 1:28 PM
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is what is changing/disappearing.
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
TigerPulse: 75%
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No, it isn't. EVERY college athlete MUST be a student
Oct 22, 2024, 2:30 PM
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They just meet at least the NCAA minimum GPA to stay eligible.
Come on, man. Facts matter.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [99538]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Question: should student-athletes be required to meet minimum academic
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Oct 22, 2024, 2:44 PM
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requirements in order to maintain eligibility to play sports? By requiring this, aren't we infringing on their right to earn as much money as possible from their name, image, and likeness? How can we limit them in this way? It's just wrong!
There has to be some sort of court ruling invalidating this stringent requirement.
I'm sure you'll be able to find precedent.
Bluffton OrangeMan
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
TigerPulse: 75%
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GPA requirements are legit
Oct 22, 2024, 2:57 PM
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They apply equally to all students.
That's a big difference from, say, the ruling in the Ohio vs NCAA case about transfers.
That ruling shot down the NCAA treating athletes differently from non athletes.
The same thing applies to NIL. Non athletes could get NIL and hold paid jobs all they wanted. Inky athletes were excluded. That's illegal restraint of trade and disparate treatment. Both are illegal under federal law.
There's nothing wrong with a minimum academic requirement as long as it applies to everyone equally.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [99538]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Aren't the GPA requirements to participate in sports
Oct 22, 2024, 3:07 PM
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higher than would be required of a normal student in order for that student to remain enrolled?
If so, the GPA requirements do not apply equally to all students, and the student-athletes' rights are being trampled on!
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
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Generally athletes must maintain a minimum GPA
Oct 22, 2024, 4:14 PM
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to remain eligible. That is typically u
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
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Athlete minimum GPA to remain eligible
Oct 22, 2024, 4:15 PM
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Are generally higher than for any student to remain enrolled. The academically ineligible ones just can't play until they get their grades up.
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Valley Legend [12934]
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I completely agree with you.***
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Oct 22, 2024, 2:02 PM
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Clemson Conqueror [11667]
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Re: NIL
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Oct 22, 2024, 3:09 PM
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BOM, according to his explanations, does not understand what originally NIL was originally, and in my opinion still should, be about. It was not intended to reward student athletes for the amount of time and work they put into a university playing sports. If that were the case, those student athletes playing tennis, soccer, baseball, etc. would all be rewarded with big money NIL deals. The NIL was to reward those athletes whose Name, Image, or Likeness was being used by a third party, such as these video game companies, who was capitalizing on their NIL and not giving them a dime of their profits. In the case of the universities profiting from the companies using their athletes, that money, or a portion of it, should have been going to the individuals. It was not intended for student athletes to have fake jobs, or fake responsibilities in which they do nothing, to receive a big payout in return for them going to a certain school. I don't know whether ity will ruin football or not, but it would be nice if the original intent was adhered to s little more closely rather than what is going on now...... uncontrolable.
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
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Wrong. NIL was intended to reverse decades of illegal NCAA rules.
Oct 22, 2024, 4:21 PM
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Those rules denied the athlete the right to make money for...just about anything.
Blatant violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act.
Some artificial construct about "intent" is meaningless. Ditto for the NCAA's insistence that they should be able to decide what is "legit" NIL. That backdoor sttenot to violate NCAA vs Alston and Tennessee/Virginia vs NCAA has put the House vs NCAA settlement in hold, because of that conflict.
The bottom line is that short of a couple of outliers where out and out fraud existed on the part of a collective, All private NIL is illegal. Any attempt by the NCAA to regulate it or infringe in it is illegal under federal law.
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Ultimate Tiger [38027]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Wrong. NIL was intended to reverse decades of illegal NCAA rules.
Oct 22, 2024, 5:15 PM
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Me and you could name the outliers. It’s the outliers that will trample on Clemson. We do not have the alumni some of these schools have, or oil money or Nike at our back door. Bluffton be sure you hang around another 5-10 years and we can revisit this topic. Useless talking about 2 separate things that are currently happening until there is actual rules that must be adhered to on the problem that is not NIL. I can live with NIL and believe it’s great for the kids and hope they choose to surround themselves with good people where that money can be of benefit long term.
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
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You are repeating a canard.
Oct 22, 2024, 5:22 PM
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It's a common canard, but it's still not factual.
Clemson is #17 in the country in NIL right now. That's indeoendent of IPTAY and the revenue sharing next year.
The issue isn't the money. It'show it's used.
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Ultimate Tiger [38027]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: You are repeating a canard.
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Oct 22, 2024, 5:38 PM
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Not a canard in some folks mind. We can not compete with Oregon or Texas money. So we are 17th? What does that tell me? That could mean we are 100,000,000 behind 16th. Who knows? Nobody knows. How can back door collectives even be ranked? Again you are telling a canard about one thing and we are talking about something else. 17th for Clemson and we are using that to retain players. How is Clemson or Dabo using money to retain players when the schools are not to be involved? Why did Tony Bennett mention letting his assistants handle the contracts? A lot of questions and you nor myself have the answers. The part of being 17th in what is being reported is a good thing. I’m fairly sure we are way behind in the grand scheme of these so called collectives that can’t be quantified. You take care my friend. I will agree to disagree and again we may get the opportunity to revisit this deal in a few years and see where we are. Shower and food for myself, been a long day!
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
TigerPulse: 75%
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There are enough elite football athletes...
Oct 22, 2024, 5:46 PM
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to stock far more teams than 17.
No matter how much money other teams have.
Elite guys don't want to sit on the bench and get zero exposure to NFL scouts.
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National Champion [8096]
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Patently false.***
Oct 22, 2024, 8:41 PM
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
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Patently you are FOS.
Oct 22, 2024, 9:00 PM
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The Supreme Court says so, 9-0, in the NCAA vs Alston case.
The judge in the House vs NCAA case says so.
The judge in the Tennessee and Virginia vs NCAA case says so.
You have nothing but your bogus opinion on this. It's pathetic.
Clemson folks are supposed to be smarter than this. So far, no evidence of that from you. Feel free to show some evidence to support your claims. You know, what smart people do.
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National Champion [8096]
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You're such an unmitigated idiot you dont even know what Im replying to. Clown.
Oct 22, 2024, 9:56 PM
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Youre such a joke and the entire board knows it. Clown.
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
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You have zero credibility here.
Oct 22, 2024, 10:07 PM
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"When the argument is lost, insults become the tool of the loser".
You just outed yourself as one if those...and not for the first time.
It's hysterical that none can show anyone evidence that I've been wrong about anything about NIL, transfers, Clemson NIL, related court cases, or any related facts on those topics. Especially you. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
LMAO!!!
Then you went straight to another logical fallacy, that false generalization. Again, smart people don't do that.
I've challenged you - repeatedly - to show evidence to support your claims about any of the above topics. You can't, because you have none. It doesn't exist.
I have facts, the law, federal court decisions, and exactly the current state of college sports in my side.
You have an unsupported - and unsupported - opinion. In statistical terms, that's not evidence, let alone reliable evidence.
It's just bogus bloviating.
I'm enjoying living rent free in your rear, tho...🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Dynasty Maker [3565]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: You have zero credibility here.
1
Oct 23, 2024, 8:54 AM
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Bluffton: "When the argument is lost, insults become the tool of the loser".
"You just outed yourself as one if those...and not for the first time."
Also Bluffton:
"Patently you are FOS."
"Again, smart people don't do that."
"He can't even add value......to his Depends in the nursing home."
"You are FOS."
"Did I mention that you are FOS?"
"Your drool bucket is overflowing. Get your mommy to change it."
"Oh, and give back the GED. "You didn't earn it.
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
TigerPulse: 75%
34
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You're a NFL referee, aren't you?
Oct 24, 2024, 1:14 PM
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Let the first foul go, then throw the flag when the other guy retaliates.
Funny how you hypocritically don't call out anyone else for their insults.
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Dynasty Maker [3565]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: You're a NFL referee, aren't you?
Oct 24, 2024, 1:26 PM
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To my knowledge, none of the others have hypocritically resorted to a misquote from Socrates in order to call out the others insults as a flaccid attempt to claim victory in the argument.
Thus your response is a logical fallacy
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
TigerPulse: 75%
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Misquote?
Oct 24, 2024, 2:55 PM
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I think not.
It's a paraphrase. Duh.
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Dynasty Maker [3565]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Misquote?
Oct 24, 2024, 3:15 PM
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OK right, you put it in quotes which is traditionally used when ya know, quote someone. When that quote is wrong, it is called a misquote.
But sure, lets go with paraphrasing.
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
TigerPulse: 75%
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NIL is not intended to be for ANY job.
Oct 22, 2024, 4:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: NIL ] |
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It is intended to reward athletes for endorsing products and services.
Whether the collective or donor get a monetary ROI or not is irrelevant to the law.
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Dynasty Maker [3207]
TigerPulse: 75%
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Rich schools?
Oct 22, 2024, 9:01 PM
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Like FSU, Csl, Baylor, USC, Auburn...
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Playmaker [396]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: NIL
Oct 24, 2024, 1:18 PM
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They say Hershall was ours, until Vince Dooley found a Trans-Am with T-tops before we could.
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All-Time Great [97893]
TigerPulse: 100%
63
Posts: 97399
Joined: 2009
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This can be fixed with a new league which operates on contracts like the NFL.
Oct 24, 2024, 1:22 PM
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I think that's the idea the B1G and SEC are going for. I believe they will put a cap on salaries and I also believe that the league will put the NCAA in bankruptcy court.
Everyone knew this was unsustainable.
I like paying the kids and I believed that they should be getting compensation back in the 1980s.
Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®
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Campus Hero [13863]
TigerPulse: 100%
48
Posts: 23093
Joined: 2004
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You still need the right coaches - that part hasn't changed
Oct 24, 2024, 1:32 PM
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A&M bought the highest rated recruiting class of all time a few years ago (1st year of NIL), and Jimbo couldn't do anything with it.
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