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Playmaker [356]
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Coaching Philosophy
Jan 18, 2020, 11:40 AM
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Hear me out. I know we’ve had a lot of success, and our coordinators have been nominated and won many awards. But I wanted to mention something I’ve noticed. When you watch Venables coach a defense, he utilizes the strength of the roster. This year he completely changed the scheme and utilized the stronger back end of the defense.
Players/recruiting is crucial, but you still see teams have success with less talented players when they work to the advantages of the team. Which is where I move on to offense though. It seems to be pretty well accepted around here that Chad Morris had a specific scheme he wanted, and he kind of forced players to play in a role that didn’t really fit them.
We’ve gotten away from that quite a bit, however, I still feel like we have a different fault. I feel like Clemson this year went away from any creativity and scheming on the offensive side of the ball. Coming into this season we had Etienne, likely our best back ever. Lawrence, likely one of our top two or so quarterbacks ever. Higgins and Ross, two first round prospect receivers. And a strong veteran O line with NFL prospects. On paper I expected a historical offense, like what we saw out of LSU.
But in my untrained eye, what I saw in the field was generic vanilla offense. I felt like the coaches just figured the talent gap would allow Clemson to roll over their opponents, that we didn’t need a creative scheme.
In the past we have done this, and I groaned at vanilla play calling, but come playoff time Clemson seemed to start opening up the playbook and we saw a lot of new things, things that didn’t just rely on talent, (think the rubs against bama, and the shovel passes, aggressive inside screens and attacking the middle of the field) but combined good scheme to get receivers open, and utilize our backs in the best way.
I felt like we didn’t see that this year. Keep in mind I’m not talking silly gadget plays here, I just mean creative play calling to trip up and confuse defenses, and get wide receivers open.
The only new things I saw come playoff were utilizing ETN receiving out of the back field against Ohio State. LSU, our offensive play calling looked vanilla as ever. We seemed to barely be able to get a receiver open, and would then turn to running the ball into the teeth of the defense. ETN has success off tackle and we just stopped. Meanwhile after being stymied early by good defense, LSU started attacking us over the middle with quick passes, and UTILIZING where their talent advantages were.
I understand we had a very strong offense this year, but I felt like we hit a road block once we faced stiff competition... and honestly I felt a lot of that fault falls on play calling and schemes that were just vanilla.
I know defense gave up points in the LSU game, but I felt the scheme was good and utilized the talent we have on that side of the ball as best it could. They got worn out by 3 and out offense.... that I felt did not utilize its talent with good scheme and play calling.
LSU has an excellent team, and I am in no way saying we have bad coordinators. There may have been no way to win that game. But I just wish I’d seen more creativity and awareness of where our advantages were in offense, and schemes to utilize that. That is just my opinion.
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Clemson Icon [27622]
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Re: Coaching Philosophy
Jan 18, 2020, 12:20 PM
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I certainly will not discount your observation and agree with much of what you said. The Tigers had so much success offensively that I’m sure the coaches saw no need to open the play book. We blew everyone out every game and utilized a lot of young guys in doing so. I do seriously believe that we would have been better prepared for LSU if we had scheduled a tougher out of conference opponent mid way thru the season. You just don’t gain much playing Wofford and Charlotte. That likely isn’t going to change any time soon.
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Varsity [237]
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Re: Coaching Philosophy
Jan 18, 2020, 12:21 PM
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I did not see it as vanilla- yes LSU did crush us but if we were vanilla how about them? It was either run the RB and QB or pass the ball. That was their offense period. They just had better skill players than us--not criticizing our players at all. They played with heart and left it on the field. We were 14-1 for the season and ranked number 2 and 29-1 for 2 seasons and ranked 1 last season and top five I guess for 5-6 years in a row. I personally think you should take a hard look at all of this before making your judgements. We have a GREAT coaching staff and a GREAT head coach and excellent players that give it their all. I for one am quite happy with my Tigers and trust the coaches. GO TIGERS!
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National Champion [7713]
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I thought LSU was very inovative in their empty sets and the
Jan 20, 2020, 9:51 AM
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routes were well timed, spaced, and executed to perfection by the QB. They audibled off their initial route based on the coverage scheme. IF we pressed they seemed to go with a hitch and go for the primary if we played off these seemed to audible to a quick cross/slant route and they did it all game with the QB and the WR on the same page every time. Thats the key. When the QB becomes the OC on the field and then executes with his receivers...you're pretty much unstoppable if the pressure doesn't get their quick enough.
Their WR routes seemed to bunch together and spread out at the same time in different directions as they got downfield and the QB was well prepared to pick on the weak link and was very successful in the last 3 qtrs of play.
On the other hand we seemed to run your prototypical post route, cross route, and check down to RB out of the backfield. We usually had one reciever that trevor would go to down field and a check down to Etienne if it wasn't there. If they could bottle HIggins and etienne up then we did threaten them anywhere else. So..i agree. We gotta get better on offense and be less predictable.
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Campus Hero [13368]
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I agree that coaching on the offensive side is really bad.
Jan 18, 2020, 12:34 PM
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We basically are like 90s era FSU: our defense is phenomenal and we simply out-talent the other team on offense. There is no consistency, no real scheme, and the offense just sputters along not really putting drives together on a reliable basis. Then, suddenly, an 80 yard strike because our guy is simply faster than the rest of the people in the stadium.
I wouldn't say this is because of vanilla playcalling. We run a ton of plays that are really just a waste of time and have so much more risk than probability of reward that they just don't make sense. The option, for example, is a great play for teams built around it. For us, it's just not smart. Reverses, flea-flickers, ridiculously complicated screens, etc.
Meanwhile, we don't utilize our strengths to execute basic football plays (regardless of the formation) that are proven to consistently work, and to exploit a defense's tendencies. For example, when we are facing cover-2 with press coverage by the CBs, we basically never exploit the middle of the field or the slant route. We did once in the LSU game, to the TE, with great success. Then... nothing.
Against OSU and against LSU we could have exploited their emphasis on the edge by running off tackle (with various plays). LSU's interior was huge but gassed and we ran a couple of dives early and abandoned the inside completely. We came back to it in the first drive of the second half and ETN ran right through the redzone defense and scored. Then... nothing. OSU stopped the dives right away so we abandoned the inside there as well. Apparently on offense we either run a dive, or some play to the edge that takes 10 minutes to develop. This isn't smart.
Venables leads our defense and completely reorganizes it to fit our strengths, comes up with a usually solid game plan, and usually makes amazing adjustments in game. Against LSU I was surprised that they were able to go on such a scoring streak, because usually Venables doesn't let that happen.
Our offense is the opposite. They have their hard-headed ideas about what they want to do and they just go out there and run the plays and assume that our athlete is going to make a big play and out-athlete the other players. Sure, we get to the line and adjust the play based on their formation in the immediate sense, but we don't change strategy for the better in an overall sense.
Just my opinion. Hopefully we can keep getting the athletes to out-talent other teams. It has taken us very far and we are having more success than I could have imagined.
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Playmaker [356]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Re: I agree that coaching on the offensive side is really bad.
Jan 18, 2020, 1:10 PM
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You put into better words a lot of what I’m trying to say. All year I felt like our scoring drives/big plays had more to do with one of our players making an amazing play than anything else. A great catch by Higgins/Ross, or perfect ball by Lawrence, or ETN simply fighting off tackles and putting on the jets. Didn’t feel like the scheme ever made it easy. We stalled out on offense a lot of drives out in seemingly all the games, where as our defense was able to consistently get stop after stop after stop.
I said the same thing pretty much all year about the middle of the field. We NEVER attacked it. LSU and Bama have eaten teams alive with slants over the middle. Slower linebackers unable to cover receivers in general, let alone elite ones. That’s combining talent and scheme. Especially with two high safeties in cover two.
Same with seemingly never utilizing ETN on the outside. He’s good between tackles but get him outside with a man or two to beat and he’s lethal. Then work back inside once you stretch the defense and gas them.
But what do I know, I’m not getting paid the big bucks, I’m sure it’s not as easy as it seems. I do appreciate our coaches and players. But I do scratch my head sometimes.
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Campus Hero [13368]
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Yeah and I think we're saying the same thing about running
Jan 18, 2020, 1:28 PM
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with ETN. When I say inside vs the edge I'm talking about the 5 and 7 gap. (anywhere between the guard and the spot where a TE would be). When we hand the ball to ETN and there's even the slightest hole in that zone, all he has to do is beat one LB and he's gone. He usually can do that if he doesn't get touched before the LOS.
But anyway yes, we either run a dive, or some play to the sideline that goes 50 yards laterally for a 2 yard gain.
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Varsity [243]
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Re: Yeah and I think we're saying the same thing about running
Jan 19, 2020, 11:16 PM
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5 and 7 gap? Did you coach American football? Football guys here always refer to those with letters.
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All-In [34487]
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5 and 7 "holes" would be from the offense's point of view
Jan 20, 2020, 12:39 PM
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A, B, C and so forth generally refer to multiple holes or a hole and a part of another hole.
I love holes.
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Campus Hero [13368]
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Yep. Basic stuff:
Jan 20, 2020, 2:43 PM
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Ring of Honor [21463]
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Clemson Conqueror [11692]
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Re: Really bad?
Jan 18, 2020, 1:26 PM
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Our offense- coaches and players - had a bad 25 minutes in the Natty. Our defense let down for about 7-8 minutes in the Natty. Other than this, our team had a great year. We do need to use ETN more and we need to attack the middle more. Hopefully, these issues will be addressed and practiced in the next 7 months.
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Paw Warrior [4751]
TigerPulse: 82%
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I think we are being a bit too harsh about the Natty
Jan 18, 2020, 6:03 PM
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I just went back today and watched the game again.
During the first 20 minutes we played really well on both sides of the ball.
During the second 20 minutes, LSU's offense figured out some things against our defense and scored a bunch of points. At the half we made some adjustments and slowed them down a bit while our offense made some plays to get back in the ballgame (28 - 25).
In the final 20 minutes, LSU's offense got rolling again and as the lead widened and the time ran down we became one dimensional and unsuccessful. You can't really run ETN when you are down 17 entering the 4th quarter (We did try to pass him the ball a bit - but their defense was all over that).
I guess what I am trying to say is that we did not play that badly until late in the game (4th quarter). And a good bit of that was due to a very good LSU team (O & D). The OP asks some good questions - questions that should be examined if we are going to play at the highest level. But let's not get too crazy. We don't have to reconstruct our entire offense.
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Orange Elite [5238]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: I think we are being a bit too harsh about the Natty
Jan 20, 2020, 6:14 AM
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I didn't read where anyone said we should reconstruct our entire offense. I saw critiques of some of our tactics and strategies. Its what fans do. It could be a lot worse.
I think this staff's success's are the reasons it's not.
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Valley Protector [1439]
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Re: Really bad?
Jan 18, 2020, 8:26 PM
[ in reply to Really bad? ] |
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Not a convincing rebuttle, didn't offer anything of substance to counter any of the points made-which, if anything, adds weight to his argument-just a valid observation-
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Campus Hero [13368]
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first day on Tnet?
Jan 18, 2020, 8:55 PM
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lol just kidding. But yeah this is a common reply to anything other than "everything is awesome!"
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Ring of Honor [21463]
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Anyone who thinks our offense is really bad
Jan 20, 2020, 6:50 PM
[ in reply to Re: Really bad? ] |
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is an idiot. How's that?
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Campus Hero [13368]
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reading comprehension is fundamental***
Jan 20, 2020, 6:51 PM
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Solid Orange [1301]
TigerPulse: 74%
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Re: Really bad?
Jan 19, 2020, 8:43 AM
[ in reply to Really bad? ] |
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Agree...if 29-1 is really bad then we are just full of ourselves...It is true that i've posted about a few things such as no use of TE's and lack of Renfrow type crossing routes during the season but our offensive production was staggering and lots of folks would give their left nut for plain vanilla like ours...There is nothing wrong with Clemson that Dabo can't fix...my greatest concern in the LSU game was that they and OSU were physical to the point of being outside the lines on defense and our wide receivers could not handle it...ACC officials call games more closely according to the rules of football...(if you are in uniform SEC condones rape) and PAC whatever refs usually call close...someone in the CFP or NCAA got to them...many years ago when Colt McCoy and Texas were about to beat the hell out of Alabama it was clear that the refs were 'letting them play'...that's the buzzword down south for holding, grabbing arm blocking and terrorism! Big right tackle smashed McCoy in the pile and Mac Brown & Texas were never the same with a freshman QB...at the start of the game Texas was faster, more diciplined and would have beated bama by 20...A couple of years ago Florida would have beated Georgia under the same circumstances! Clemson will be back, never fear TIGER fans...LSU will be back to eating Gumbo and smelling dirty water!
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CU Guru [1260]
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Tom being Tom***
Jan 19, 2020, 11:02 PM
[ in reply to Really bad? ] |
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Legend [6681]
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Campus Hero [13368]
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It's not the Xs and Os, it's the Jimmys and Joes.***
Jan 18, 2020, 1:26 PM
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CU Guru [1260]
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What part of 29-1 are you not getting?
Jan 19, 2020, 11:00 PM
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And where were these posts when we thrashed Nzd and Bama last year? Same exact offense. Look, maybe the playcalling slipped against LSU, but you cannot possibly paint such a broad strike over the whole 29-1. That would be dumb.
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CU Guru [1260]
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Playmaker [356]
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Re: It was one game.
Jan 20, 2020, 11:34 AM
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I'm not sure if this is a reply to me or the other guy. However, If you look at my post history I made a post called "Offensive Questions" that asked a lot of these same questions in September of this year.
https://www.tigernet.com/forum/message/Offensive-Questions-26067749
I love our coaches and the culture we have at Clemson. Please don't misunderstand. They've achieved great things. We can be happy about what they have achieved and still hope for improvement.
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Tiger Cub [10]
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Re: I agree that coaching on the offensive side is really bad.
Jan 20, 2020, 4:21 PM
[ in reply to I agree that coaching on the offensive side is really bad. ] |
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I could not agree more with the idea that we had more running room between the tackles in the LSU game. I started writing it down in the 1st half, ETN run for 5 yds between the tackles on 1st down, 2nd and 5, why not another run or even the same play with different window dressing? But we would switch to a pass, which given out QB and WRs, anyone would think of doing except more moving parts and if those parts are off, we don't burn clock and keep Burrow on the sideline. We had LSU at least stunned early on and then let them get up and do what they do. Maybe a few more runs burns more clock and the score stays closer longer and then, well who knows but I believe you do something until the other team stops you.
We have so many playmakers and only one ball. I think sometimes we feel pressure to let others have a shot even when things are working.
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Paw Warrior [4751]
TigerPulse: 82%
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I think these are all legitimate questions that
Jan 18, 2020, 5:47 PM
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I certainly hope Dabo and Elliott are asking themselves right now.
I also hope that they are studying LSU's schemes to see what they can steal.
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Paw Warrior [4751]
TigerPulse: 82%
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In a similar vein, I wonder about our player's
Jan 18, 2020, 5:50 PM
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performances. Did they work on running crisper routes - getting separation - working through hand fighting - etc. as diligently as they might have ? Or did they enjoy their physical superiority during the season just a bit too much ??
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Valley Protector [1439]
TigerPulse: 87%
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Re: Coaching Philosophy
Jan 18, 2020, 8:00 PM
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Possible it has become a little stagnant or even decadent. There were periods in our schedule that would allow for the study of the latest offense concepts & a live test site or prooving grounds w/ very litte risk-
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Valley Protector [1439]
TigerPulse: 87%
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proving?***
Jan 18, 2020, 8:35 PM
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Paw Master [16317]
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Coaching philosophy at Clemson is very good.
Jan 19, 2020, 9:09 AM
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Every year the coaches review what we have done in the past, identify what we need to do to get better and implement a process to push the new team to be the best it can be.
The results of the established, well thought out process has been a better result than any other program in college football. No other team in the country has produced at as high a level as Clemson over the past five years. To restate the obvious, we've played in four of the last five National Title games and won two of them.
Every year the country searches out the best teams and we play them the last two game days of the season. Against the teams widely proclaimed to be the best ever at LSU, Alabama, and Ohio State, we've won twice as many games as we have lost. In those two last game days over the last four years, we've simply destroyed a couple of very good teams who were undefeated by large margins. All that goes on the plus side of the ledger and the five losses in five years goes on the negative side of the ledger.
When I look at what has happened on the field, I give our overall coaching staff and our past five teams an A+ rating. I think our coaching staff is immeasurably more likely to self scout, to address weaknesses and to prepare a new team to win on the biggest stages than guys like us in the cheap seats.
Do the rare losses hurt? You bet. Do I think we can play better than we've played in those rare losses? Yes I do.
Go Tigers!!
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CU Guru [1260]
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Well said, Sir.
Jan 19, 2020, 11:08 PM
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I guess some folks are spoiled or dont know how to enjoy a great thing. Like you said, best team of the last 5 years. No doubt.
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Ring of Honor [23158]
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I understand exactly what the OP is saying.
Jan 19, 2020, 10:46 AM
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Look, you can't argue with the success of the last few years. Our coaching has been off the chart. I wouldn't trade our staff for anybody's... blah blah blah, that's all true. However, there were a couple times this year when I wondered - man, it seems like we throw an awful lot of those "back-shoulder 50-50 balls to the sideline". Yeah, they're typically more like 80-20 balls with our frisbee catching dogs at WR. And we ate Bama up with em last year....
And they work well against mediocre defenses like we see in the ACC or versus the Lameflops. But as someone said, that's not so much scheme as just out-talenting the opponent. Hippie Boy will sling it close enough that our guy will go up and get it over your guy, or will pull off a circus catch that leaves you speechless. And we had several of those vs Bama last year, too. But you just can't dial those up on demand... it requires somebody to make a spectacular play.
And when that ain't clicking, we need something a bit different. And it doesn't take much for it not to click... Hippie Boy being slightly off, great play by the DBs, pressure on the QB, whatever. Then I find myself wishing for a quick slant or dragging a TE across the middle, etc. Maybe we just can't consistently do that right now, there's no Leggett on the field, and we really miss Third and Renfrow. I don't know.
But something did seem to be missing. Against OSU & LSU, we only completed 51% of our passes for an avg of 246 passing yards. You gotta admit that is rather pedestrian... either by our own recent standards, or any team that is nat'l champ caliber.
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Paw Master [16959]
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There's nothing in the results of this coaching staff
Jan 19, 2020, 11:01 AM
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That gives me confidence they have a clue how to adjust, modify, adapt, or otherwise hold close to heart any advice forthcoming from the T-Net expert coaches. Absolutely nothing. It's been ten-plus years of doing whatever they want and not ONCE referencing the brilliance that emanates from these pages! I don't get it.
Sarcasm, for the uninitiated.  And relief the staff doesn't roam these 'halls'.
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Ring of Honor [23158]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Yeah, whatever. Heaven forbid we have an actual football
Jan 19, 2020, 12:33 PM
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discussion on TigerNet. If you're not licking Dabo's taint 24/7 until it bleeds, you're a coot, or man... you sure got a lotta nerve questioning our coaches. Nobody's questioning anything, just thinking out loud about why our passing game slipped so badly in the playoffs this year. Again, 50% completion for less than 250 yards ain't gonna get it done. Period. That's a fact. And when you have a good running threat, and the best QB and WRs in the history of the ultraverse... it just seems obvious something was a bit off. Does it not?
And drop the whole "if you're so smart why aren't you coaching" bit. You didn't have to be a top automobile engineer to see that the Edsel was an ugly car. You don't have be the executive chef at Peter Luger's Steakhouse to know if a steak is overcooked. And you don't have to be a football genius making $10 million a year to know that we struggled to sustain our usually explosive passing game versus OSU & LSU. Fair enough? Can we at least discuss it?
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CU Guru [1260]
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Geez bud, relax. We called a bad game.
Jan 19, 2020, 11:12 PM
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But saying over the last 5 years our wins and great offenses have only occured over mediocre defenses, well sir, that's just not correct.
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Campus Hero [13368]
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A lot of our success has come from 3rd and long miracles
Jan 19, 2020, 10:26 PM
[ in reply to I understand exactly what the OP is saying. ] |
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by Watson and "Hippie boy" (LOL). It's gonna work against the Atlantic Coast Cupcakes, but it isn't going to be consistent against top quality opponents.
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CU Guru [1260]
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That's a joke.
Jan 19, 2020, 11:16 PM
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We played in 4 of the last 5 national championships because of 3rd and long miracles. Riiiiight.
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Clemson Icon [26697]
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Ring of Honor [23158]
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Oh my, that sounds ominous. Well, if I'm gonna get beat up at
Jan 21, 2020, 6:32 AM
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recess, you better send Scott Farkus, because I think I can take that little sidekick of his.
Look... "Hippie Boy" is a term of affection for me, not ridicule. My hair was about as long as his all through high school and while at CU in the 70s. It was not uncommon back then. There were a buncha "hippie boys". I meant nothing by it.
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Paw Warrior [4633]
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Re: Coaching Philosophy
Jan 19, 2020, 12:41 PM
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Far too mature a conversation to have on this site.
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Orange Elite [5238]
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Re: Coaching Philosophy
Jan 20, 2020, 6:22 AM
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Exactly.
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All-In [10131]
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Re: Coaching Philosophy
Jan 20, 2020, 7:36 AM
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Before the season began, all we heard was how great our offense was and how big a question mark was on the D, as the season progressed that quickly flipped. The UNC game highlighted that issue when our D just simply had a bad game. It isn’t Ross, Higgins, Lawrence etc. It was vanilla coaching and I hope that has changed!
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Gridiron Giant [16072]
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Re: Coaching Philosophy
Jan 20, 2020, 8:04 AM
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During the off season between 2018 and 2019, Venables went to Kansas to get info and learn more about the 3-3-5 defense. It's time for Elliott to take a look at what's out there to spice up this offense.
Personally, I want to see 80 to 90 plays a game again. Don't substitute on offense then the refs can't stop the offense to allow the defenses the opportunity to sub. If the defense is not ready, so be it and make the opposing coach burn time-outs to substitute on defense.
I know, I know, its crazy to say the offense needs something when it's a top 5 offense, just my opinion.
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Paw Warrior [4751]
TigerPulse: 82%
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Re: Coaching Philosophy
Jan 20, 2020, 4:51 PM
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Joe Brady is just down the road. Sure would like to see TE go up to Charlotte and pick his Saint's brain a bit.
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Top TigerNet [32632]
TigerPulse: 100%
55
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Joined: 2003
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Same coordinators that won 2 NCs
Jan 20, 2020, 8:10 AM
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Now they are stupid... just can't win for losing.
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Gridiron Giant [16072]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2016
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Re: Same coordinators that won 2 NCs
Jan 20, 2020, 10:25 AM
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No one said they are stupid. Elite defenses have caught up and as for me, I want 3, 4 and more Championships by this current coaching staff.
Perception is reality and scoring 20 points less in two CFP games this year as last year, with more experience at all the offensive positions, is reality.
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CU Guru [1236]
TigerPulse: 81%
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I agree with your point, but cringe at your
Jan 20, 2020, 10:30 AM
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Lack of understanding of how to use the word 'utilize.' Look it up, using it over and over instead of 'use' doesn't make you sound more sophisticated. Thanks to the insecure jocks of sports commentary for this nails-on-a-chalkboard misappropriation of the English language. (Sorry for the OCD grammar rant...)
But with one OC now, maybe we can bring some creativity to our scheme and focus on strengths and keep the defense guessing at the same time. Is it possible keeping the WR coach and RB coach happy with balance was a stumbling block?
Go Tigers!
PS - I fully expect the TDs at grammar poasts, just look at my pulse...
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Playmaker [356]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Re: I agree with your point, but cringe at your
Jan 20, 2020, 10:40 AM
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definition of Utilize:
-make practical and effective use of
-to use something in an effective way
I wasn’t using the term to try to sound sophisticated. I was using it because I did in fact mean to use effectively. We certainly used our players all game correct? That doesn’t mean they were used effectively. I apologize for using the word multiple times in the post, I know I hate to see that as well. I didn’t exactly have a laid out plan for the post. I just spit out some ideas and thoughts I was having.
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Playmaker [356]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Re: I agree with your point, but cringe at your
Jan 20, 2020, 11:42 AM
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About your point with Co-OCs. I too am curious to see how having only TE will change the offense.
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CU Guru [1236]
TigerPulse: 81%
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Dig deeper than the dictionary, it's a grammar thing.
Jan 21, 2020, 3:04 PM
[ in reply to Re: I agree with your point, but cringe at your ] |
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You can only "use" a fork to eat food.
You can either "use" or "utilize" a fork to prop open a window.
Use is always correct (when in doubt, use "use.) Utilize is only correct if something is being used for an unintended purpose.
In football:
"The RB utilized his lower body strength to break a tackle." <- nails on a chalkboard
"Christian Wilkins was utilized as a safety in the spring game." <- fair usage
I must apologize on making you aware of this. The word "utilize" will be misapplied in so many areas of your life, and from here on out, you'll likely be the only one aware. Ignorance is bliss.
Still completely agree with your original post.
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Orange Immortal [63123]
TigerPulse: 100%
60
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Joined: 1998
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I'll be even more direct. Tony Elliott shat the bed vs. LSU.
Jan 20, 2020, 10:37 AM
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All you say is correct and it worked in the regular season, but not against CFP-level teams.
I respect TE for acknowledging that he should have run ETN and TLaw more in the Natty, but that doesn't excuse the mistake. EVERYONE on here, on social media, and on TV was saying "run the ball" in the 3rd quarter. I believe if we had, while we may still have not won the game, it would have given us a chance by 1) wearing down LSU while our D got a blow 2) keeping LSU's offense off the field 3) using clock.
TE is not the first and won't be the last OC to not believe what his eyes are seeing. Heck, Bama was guilty of the same versus us last year. But I do believe Dabo will go back to this and work on things with TE over the off season.
All that said, I am not complaining about what I never thought I'd live to see.
We've never had it so good.
And think about this. BV did it with smoke and mirrors this season. Next season we will have a DL again.
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Campus Hero [13368]
TigerPulse: 100%
48
Posts: 16724
Joined: 2010
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Well said.***
Jan 20, 2020, 12:23 PM
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1st Rounder [668]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Well said.***
Jan 20, 2020, 1:53 PM
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I am hoping we do some self-scouting and add some new wrinkles in and with different players/more experience we find some new ways to attack. There is an awfully lot of tape out there now on our tendencies and what we like to do. I felt like in that first game against Georgia Tech they had scouted us well. They were jumping the routes on the sideline passes and that’s what led to Trevor getting picked twice. I remember saying at the game that one of these times we’d attack the middle of the field and catch them with it. We did finally, but it became a rarity.
I thought last year against Bama they did well. We ran some mesh type stuff I had never seen us do before. I believe this is also what Saban was referring to as the “copycat plays”.
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Game Day Hero [4109]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Re: Coaching Philosophy
Jan 20, 2020, 2:22 PM
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You've caught some flack on this board...but I've had similar concerns the past several years. Personally, I think we depend too much on our talent and not enough on offensive scheme and creativity. It's apparent to me that BV has not been willing to give chess lessons to the offensive coaches.
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Paw Warrior [4751]
TigerPulse: 82%
37
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If i were Dabo
Jan 20, 2020, 4:46 PM
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I would have BV break down our offense - suggest defenses that he might devise to stop our Offense.
Then Dabo and Elliott should devise packages to attack the weakness of every defensive looks that BV suggested. Hello, he could even help them regocnize what the actual defenses were doing during the game.
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Orange Elite [5413]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Since we have some good dialog going, why don’t we use the..
Jan 20, 2020, 3:42 PM
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...middle of the field more? I heard some analyst say that the defenses we played took away the middle forcing everything to the edges, but since you get a limited view on tv i couldn’t tell. Seems like strong teams can do it all. I think we are really missing a TE getting open over the middle. Also, why not more post routes with our speed at WR and talent at QB?
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Playmaker [356]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Re: Since we have some good dialog going, why don’t we use the..
Jan 20, 2020, 4:35 PM
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How can teams be playing two high safeties and corners blanketing our receivers outside to where they have to make circus catches and near the flats (where we do those WR screens) and still have the middle of the field lock down covered? I think not having a renfrow type possession receiver or solid TE option can effect that, but alabama has made use of there wideouts with slants over the middle. Basically I don’t see how the announcers/commentators are saying that. Maybe someone else can better explain something I’m missing.
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Paw Warrior [4751]
TigerPulse: 82%
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Re: Since we have some good dialog going, why don’t we use the..
Jan 20, 2020, 4:42 PM
[ in reply to Since we have some good dialog going, why don’t we use the.. ] |
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I would have to go back and look at the film again, but if the defense is playing a single high safety (or even if they are showing two and walking one down at the snap), then posts play right into their coverage. OTOH a 2 receiver combo - post/fly route puts the safety into an impossible position - especially when you line up both receivers to the same side.
I would also like to go back and look at how many times OSU & LSU had any safeties over the top. Could their DBs just be good enough to cover the outside routes without help ?
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Playmaker [356]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Re: Since we have some good dialog going, why don’t we use the..
Jan 20, 2020, 4:49 PM
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That’s true. I just felt like we saw a lot of cover 2. Could’ve been disgusted. I just feel like if that was the case you’d see more routes coming open down field, if you have enough time for the route to develop of course. But if they’re bring pressure from linebacker spots you’d think that would leave space in the middle too.
I think that’s part of what made the past few Clemson defenses so dominate even against stiff completion. Not having to bring extra men, the line got pressure on the QB. This year it made a difference in the final games even though Venables did a wonderful job given his personnel provided.
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Campus Hero [13368]
TigerPulse: 100%
48
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Joined: 2010
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Analysts are dumb for the most part.
Jan 20, 2020, 6:40 PM
[ in reply to Since we have some good dialog going, why don’t we use the.. ] |
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What they mean by "took it away" is that the safeties were playing a little closer to the line before the snap. That's just a formation to stop the zone-read and the lateral plays we like to run so much. It doesn't take away the TE or the slant. If anything it opens those plays up because once those safeties read pass they have to turn their hips away and run back to their marks.
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