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Replies: 25
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Recruit [94]
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Clemson 2014 vs this team
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Oct 20, 2023, 5:43 AM
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How confident are we that this season is similar to 2014 in terms of record and outcome, and we are on the cusp of 2015 and 2016 breakout type seasons the next couple of years following this season? We have pieces that will continue to develop and while not a big class, I like what we have coming in next year.
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Asst Coach [712]
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Re: Clemson 2014 vs this team
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Oct 20, 2023, 6:27 AM
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Record may be the same in the end, but there is no DW4, Mike Williams, Artavis Scott, Gallman, etc on this team with years ahead them.
The defenses are arguably a wash. Both are good and maybe stronger in different places.
Seems like I remember that team lost to FSU on the road in OT because of turnovers and fluky plays. They lost to UGa in the opener in Athens with Stoudt at QB in Watsons first game. Then they lost to GT when Watson blew his knee out. They were in control and about to go up 14-0. Stoudt went on to throw a few pick 6’s.
They need to add as much talent and depth to next years team from HS recruiting and the PORTAL to have another playoff type team. I don’t think it’s fair to depend on the freshman WRs coming in to be immediate impact pkaymakers. It’s possible, but I don’t think you place all hope that they are day 1 stars.
Next year is all about the offense finding playmakers. However you get them, just get them.
Message was edited by: PineLakeTiger®
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Clemson 2014 vs this team
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Oct 20, 2023, 9:51 AM
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I believe you are working with some revisionist history when comparing our current players to the 2014 and 2015 rosters in terms of talent.
You are spot on when you say there is not a Deshaun Watson on the roster and there won't be next year either. Cade has some talent, but he is missing some of the instinctual abilities that Watson possessed that made him great.
Mike Williams was a non-factor in 2015 due to injury, so we can strike him off of the list of guys we need to make a 2015-like bounce back.
Our WR corp in 2015 consisted of a veteran Peake post-injury whose best attributes were a veteran presence and great blocking, but he certainly wasn't an offensive playmaker.
Artavis Scott was the playmaker and behind him Clemson relied on a very inconsistent couple of true freshmen in Deion Cain and Ray Ray McCloud.
A RS freshman Hunter Renfrow rounded out the group as a dependable player who had a big impact in the playoff, but was not a major playmaker throughout the year.
At RB, saying that a Shipley or Mafah returning for a senior season would not be as talented or as helpful as a young Gallman is a stretch. Gallman wasn't some superstar recruit with mega talent. He was dependable and got the job done. The young backs behind him in Adam Choice and CJ Fuller were good players but not some unattainable level of play that we shouldn't expect from our young backs.
The biggest difference in my opinion between that 2014-15 and 2023-24 is that those players seemed like they showed up angry with something to prove in the biggest moments.
Our players now don't seem to have the same edge that those teams had and I think it's due to guys like Watson, Lawson, Alexander, Boulware and others like them who showed up to the field and made things personal with the other team.
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Orange Blooded [4693]
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Re: Clemson 2014 vs this team
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Oct 20, 2023, 10:10 AM
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TigersO......you hit the nail on the head! As B.B. King so eloquently stated, "the Thrill is gone" for a lot of these players & coaches.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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maybe similar record.......nowhere CLOSE to the talent of 2015/2016
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Oct 20, 2023, 7:14 AM
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regardless of what Dabo says/thinks.
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Standout [340]
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What idiot gets on a Board and literally proclaims
Oct 20, 2023, 8:20 AM
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that, no matter what, he knows better than the Head Coach? Knows better.
TNET needs a Fools Filter……
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Asst Coach [712]
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Re: What idiot gets on a Board and literally proclaims
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Oct 20, 2023, 8:27 AM
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You would be shadow banned then. If you believe Dabo really thinks his offense is as talented right now as it was then, your idiocy needs filtering.
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Standout [340]
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See, this is the problem: people don't read well enough to
Oct 20, 2023, 4:46 PM
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actually hold a conversation. I argued purely the notion that Phee... Dumbo could "know better than what Dabo knows".
Pure narcissistic idiocy has set in at that point.
You can argue by yourself whatever you believe or not about talent, or about what you think Dabo himself believes. But pointless arguments thrill me even less than watching arrogance run amok....
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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Legend [16912]
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Re: LOL....Mikey, I trust my eyes.....this team isn't close to 2015/2016
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Oct 20, 2023, 9:29 AM
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You’re not even answering the question the op asked in your want to bash the state of the program. He wants to know if this team to next year could compare to the 2014 to 2015 transition. Not how 2015 compares to this year. Defense should be a push. O-line improved. Cade probably not as good as Deshaun but improved. Assuming one of our two lead backs return RB should be a push. You might not be aware but two of the top three receivers in 2015 were a true sophomore and a true freshman. Wesco will be our highest graded WR since Deon Cain - that’s 9 years ago and, coincidentally, 2015. If Antonio Williams can stay healthy, Tyler Brown continues at his pace, and Wesco performs similar to Cain’s rookie outing then yes, we could easily see them make a huge jump on offense next year. Leggett was 4th highest in receiving yards. Stellato is currently outpacing Leggett’s second year. So, barring bad fortunate, all the pieces will be here.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Wesco isn't here yet
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Oct 20, 2023, 9:42 AM
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I'll be nervous about that one until he signs.
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Legend [16912]
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Re: Wesco isn't here yet
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Oct 20, 2023, 10:15 AM
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Deon Cain wasn’t here yet in this analogy either.
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Legend [16136]
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Are you thinking there's a chance Deon won't sign with us? Spoiler Alert:
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Oct 21, 2023, 3:04 PM
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he did
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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I did answer the question.....in order.......
Oct 20, 2023, 9:54 AM
[ in reply to Re: LOL....Mikey, I trust my eyes.....this team isn't close to 2015/2016 ] |
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similar record............nowhere near the talent as 2015/2016.
you make many "if statements" and assumption statements, one of which is highly dependent on ONE true freshman WR. I have high expectations for Wesco, he's a stud, but I'm also hesitant as our WRs haven't developed under this staff/WR coach like they used to under the previous WR coach regime. Assuming all your "ifs" and "assumptions come true they still won't be as good, you're also not taking into account the "ifs" and/or "assumptions" that we'll lose 8-10 to the portal, which is what we've averaged losing since 2019, that's on top of the natural attrition that happens every year w/ graduation, retirements, juniors leaving, etc....
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Legend [16912]
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Re: I did answer the question.....in order.......
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Oct 20, 2023, 10:20 AM
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It is, quite literally, not what he’s asking. It’s the first line of the op: “ Clemson 2014 vs this team”. He’s is not comparing this team to 2015. And it’s a hypothetical questions so it can’t be answered without “if” speculation. You stumble over yourself to bash the team. You’re projecting two seasons development as being more significant than the overall body of work. If you claim you saw six straight CFPs and 2 National Championships coming in 2014 you’re straight up lying and your prognostication means no more now than it did then.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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again.....READ......
Oct 20, 2023, 11:07 AM
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2014 vs this team.......nowhere close.......2014 by a long shot
2015 vs speculative 2024 team.......nowhere close........since we're dealing with ifs/assumptions I'll say next year's team can take a big talent jump if Dabo hits on some impact players in the portal this off season........I don't think that will happen, but I can hope.
It's not bashing the team to say they're not as talented as previous Clemson teams.
And I did most certainly think in 2014 that our 2015 could contend for the National Title........of course NOBODY would've been willing to bet on the run we went on, but all I needed to see was DW4's first pass and first drive in person at UGA in 2014 w/ those WRs to know we most certainly had a shot for the next couple years..........I along with MANY others could see before Dabo apparently that from that day, DW4 should've been starting over Stoudt and Stoudt is the reason we lost AT #1 FSU (at the time).......start DW4, we win that game.
So yes I know what I see and I trust what I see........and if our roster isn't improved next year from a talent standpoint in some key positions (mainly WR) it'll be much of the same you've seen 2021-present, not 2015-2019. I will say we're only 3-4 key position players away from being there, but until I see Dabo do it, I won't get my hopes up.
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Standout [340]
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I would argue with you but you're intent on being a moron
Oct 20, 2023, 4:40 PM
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so be all you can be, Dumbo....
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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LOL....Mikey, you've argued with me and all you've been is wrong.
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Oct 20, 2023, 7:54 PM
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thanks for not wasting my time.
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Standout [340]
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like I said "intent on being a moron"***
Oct 21, 2023, 1:24 PM
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Legend [16136]
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Legend [17781]
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Not at all
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Oct 20, 2023, 9:36 AM
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You could see glimpses of an elite offense in 2014 when Watson was healthy. We scored 50 and 41 and put up 500 yards per game in his first two starts before he got injured at the beginning of the Louisville game.
I haven't seen those kind of glimpses from Cade or this offense yet. I'm confident we can compete for an ACC title next year, but I'm not confident that we will be on the level of the serious title contenders.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Not at all
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Oct 20, 2023, 9:59 AM
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Nobody is arguing that Cade is Deshaun, but our top WR in the UNC game was Germone Hopper so I'm not sure that is a great reference point to show that our current roster can't compete with that.
I was at the UNC game and I'm pretty sure UNC must have been playing with only 9 players and both of the missing defensive players were DBs. They were incredibly horrible.
The NC State team you are referencing game up 56 points to FSU and GA Tech that season and was 3-5 in the ACC.
Deshaun is the only piece we are missing from the 2014 offense, but that is a huge piece because he made everyone around him better.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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I get what you're saying but we just played two bottom half ACC
Oct 20, 2023, 1:23 PM
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teams and averaged 24 pts and 360 yards. Until i see this offense put up 40 on a P5 opponent I'm gonna be skeptical.
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Orange Blooded [2351]
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Re: Clemson 2014 vs this team
Oct 20, 2023, 10:31 AM
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I guess I'm cautiously optimistic. The discussion here is really focused on the offense so I’ll say I see a higher upside with the 2014 players than current. But of course skewed by hindsight.
I think the 2014 defense is getting way less credit than they deserve vs current. By the middle thru the end of the season that defense, under BV and lots of NFL talent, was the best in the country.
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Legend [19586]
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This is delusional at best***
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Oct 20, 2023, 11:20 AM
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