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All-In [10728]
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Tucker Israel?
Apr 2, 2016, 12:03 PM
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Anybody notice that Tucker Israel hardly ever gets a mention in the media? Why is this? I heard that he has a laser rocket launcher for an arm. While I know that Dabo and crew are looking for a TRUE dual threat QB even though Tucker is somewhat a dual threat QB in his own way. However, I'm not sure it's really needed. Here's why I'm saying it's not needed:
1. For the first time in over a decade the Clemson Offensive Line has quality depth.
2. Clemson arguably has 3 Running Backs that would be a starter at any other NCAA Division I school.
3. The TE and WR quality is possibly the best in the nation.
If we have all of that talented depth at skill positions and an offensive line that can provide maximum protection then why would there be a need to run the QB at all unless by design. Agree or disagree, not every QB run that Watson has made was 100% by design. I also feel that if Tucker were to have to run then he would be more than capable to do so. I was just curious as to why we haven't seen much from him. I would also like to point out that Kelly Bryant is a fast runner, but I've yet to see a consistent threat with his passing game. I guess time will tell, but I hate to see all of that talent on the roster sit on the bench and go to waste.
TUCKER ISRAEL'S TRACK RECORD:
Second-team All-American by MaxPreps.com as a senior ... honorable mention All-American by Parade as a senior ... set six state passing records ... broke Tim Tebow’s state record for passing touchdowns in a season (56), 10 more than Tebow had ... set the state record for career passing touchdowns (162) ... was 1008-1524 passing for 15,034 yards in his career; averaged 5.1 passing touchdowns and 349 yards per game in his 43-game career ... had 1,314 yards and 18 touchdowns on 222 carries in his career ... only player in state history with 600 passing yards in consecutive games ... No. 12 dual-threat quarterback in the nation by ESPN ... was 317-470 passing for 4,446 yards and 56 touchdowns as a senior ... had 3,979 passing yards and 40 touchdowns as a junior ... had 3,685 passing yards and 36 touchdowns as a sophomore ... coached by Anthony Paradiso ... recruited by Chad Morris ... signed a financial-aid agreement on Aug. 1, 2014 ... enrolled Jan. 7, 2015 ... majoring in pre-business ... born Aug. 11, 1996.
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Clemson Conqueror [11495]
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Re: Tucker Israel?
Apr 2, 2016, 12:07 PM
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TI is a good QB but fell behind the others during his RS year and also has some good QBs in front of him. Be patient as it is still very early in the process to determine his status.
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Ultimate Tiger [36452]
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We do have the #1 pocket passer committed for 2017.
Apr 2, 2016, 12:40 PM
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So maybe the coaches are beginning to feel the same way with all the talent at other positions.
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TigerNet Champion [112226]
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he's not woodrow dantzler, but hj has some skillz...
Apr 2, 2016, 1:13 PM
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dabo likes to say he never says never, but i don't see clemson changing the offense anytime too soon. the clemson spread is successful largely because the qb is a threat in the running game[designed or other] and must be game planned for by defensive coordinators.
from the moment tommy bowden stepped foot on campus with he & richrod's spread to dabo today, making the defense cover the entirety of the field is what makes the spread so lethal and a huge part of that in clemson's version is a qb that's opportunistic - has the presence to know when to tuck and run as well as be relied on to make hay when his number is called.
a lot of dw's carries are from the read so those carries are as much on the defense and what it gives - 1] throw, 2] give to the rb on the dive or 3] qb keeps it predicated on the de/olb... well, provided that's dw's read based on the defensive alignment.
paraphrasing dabo, it's what we do, the qb's gonna run - that ain't changing.
i haven't brought it up much since thechad left, but so happy dabo, elliott and scott brought smash mouth to the spread last year after so many years of hollow promises. there will be some wrinkles in the future, but i don't see the base offense changing, which includes the qb as a dual-threat - no doubt though, some qbs are more apt in the run game than others.
give the vid a look, the offense hj runs has a lot of similarities to clemson's...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMRrChOKjeU
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Top TigerNet [31729]
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love your camera work
Apr 2, 2016, 2:32 PM
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But you lost me on the soundtrack. Just a suggestion, ask foo fighters for your next artful piece. Spice it up a bit.
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TigerNet Champion [112226]
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Top TigerNet [31729]
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excellent suggestions***
Apr 2, 2016, 4:18 PM
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Tajh wasn't a running threat and he excelled in the system..
Apr 2, 2016, 3:15 PM
[ in reply to he's not woodrow dantzler, but hj has some skillz... ] |
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And no, Tajh wasn't a dual threat QB. He was able to make some plays with his feet, but he was never a threat to take off running and gain 30-60 yards.
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TigerNet Champion [112226]
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who says he has to gain 30-60 yards to be a threat? tajh
Apr 2, 2016, 3:24 PM
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moved the chains, scored tds and ended up with over 500 carries. he was used so much in the run game that our then senior running back said the running backs felt spit on in the offense.
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All-TigerNet [12943]
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TB was our running game for quite a while
Apr 2, 2016, 3:29 PM
[ in reply to Tajh wasn't a running threat and he excelled in the system.. ] |
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esp. in short yardage and in the RZ
did you just say TB wasn't a "running threat"?
DC's gameplanning us on 3rd/4th and short, and in the RZ would disagree with you... like everyone else
Message was edited by: Snowtown®
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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We failed to convert a lot of short yardage plays during...
Apr 3, 2016, 1:59 PM
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that time. The oline was so terrible in Tajh's years that him being at 225 and us having smaller RB's at the time, at his size he was the only option on short yardage due to how terrible the oline was at the time. And you will eventually have a new screen name just like the rest of your buddies will.
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TigerNet Champion [112226]
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and cu converted a lot, clemson's offenses were 88th in 2010
Apr 3, 2016, 2:47 PM
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then 26th, 9th, 9th[2011-13] then fell off drastically again in 2014 to 61st in yards /game.
no one's questioning if tajh was capable on any given play to take it 60 to the house, not in his wheelhouse, but that's your definition of dual-threat which is fine for you.
whether you like it or not, defenses had to account for tajh in the running game and clemson's offense was predicated on his ability to make things happen in it and be that dual-threat - it's what we do and was a huge hole in the 2014 offense when theChad tried to force a square peg into that round hole that was Cole.
as for the offensive line and tajh's yrds /carry, you're right, he was cu's sole option[not his doing] so instead of a running back soaking those 3rd or 4th and short carries needing 1 to 2, while sometimes getting stuffed, it was tajh taking it for the team and his stats per suffered because of it. also, he was sacked ~100 times for near 700 yards in his career, which again skews his talents - some of those on tajh as he was a gamer to a fault and was caught holding on too long hoping something to happen downfield.
as i said in my op, there's no doubt some quarterbacks are mo apt in the run game than others, but just because a quarterback isn't _____________ [your idea of a dual-threat] doesn't necessarily make him peyton manning or some other statue in the pocket.
there are degrees of most everything...
the young man made the offense go and his dual-threat mojo was a huge part of it - it was expected and relied on... too much so to my liking, which i've said many times in the past.
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Game Changer [2015]
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Re: Tajh wasn't a running threat and he excelled in the system..
Apr 2, 2016, 3:59 PM
[ in reply to Tajh wasn't a running threat and he excelled in the system.. ] |
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Orange Bowl vs Ohio st Tajh had a sixty yard td run. He was most definitely a dual threat and was our most effective short yardage back most of his career.
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TigerNet Champion [112226]
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haha, do you know that before that run peyton manning had
Apr 2, 2016, 4:01 PM
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a longer career run than did tajh?
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Top TigerNet [31729]
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: Tajh wasn't a running threat and he excelled in the system..
Apr 2, 2016, 4:27 PM
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to not be a threat he sure did great on short yardage!best fullback we have had in a while!
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110%er [8681]
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Re: Tajh wasn't a running threat and he excelled in the system..
Apr 2, 2016, 10:50 PM
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3 and 2 and you knew he was taking the b gap and nobody could stop it. Wasn't as graceful as DW4 but Tajh knew how to make plays with his feet and improvemise.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Key being short yardage, he averaged 2.3 yards per carry...
Apr 3, 2016, 1:56 PM
[ in reply to Re: Tajh wasn't a running threat and he excelled in the system.. ] |
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for his career. He wasn't a threat to break off big runs, he was just able to make some plays with his feet like I said before. A dual threat QB is a QB who can burn you huge either passing or running. Brett Favre, Tony Romo, Ben Roethlisberger, Roger Staubach, and Joe Montana are all QB's that made plays with their feet, but nobody ever called them dual threat QB's.
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TigerNet Champion [112226]
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All-TigerNet [12943]
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i'm having trouble reading the title.. maybe
Apr 3, 2016, 11:09 PM
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queenie could help?
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Scout Team [193]
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Boyd had 97 more carries than Howard and 154 more yards
Apr 4, 2016, 12:40 AM
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than Brooks in 13. He was our #1 QB and #2 RB. Would be interesting to know how many 3rd down conversions he ran for.
Tucker is fine, we all want the coaches to sign 3 top 10 QBs every class but when they don't get the starting job they transfer in a heartbeat. That is the reason the coaches sign a guy like Tucker. Every program does it, it's the same as Nick getting a Scholly. Pretty sure Dabo and company have the recruiting down especially on QBs and wideouts.
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Tiger Titan [48079]
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Tiger Titan [48079]
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TigerNet Champion [112226]
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dw ran a 4.89 at Nike's SPARQ yet was rated the nation's #1
Apr 4, 2016, 7:57 AM
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dual-threat QB by ESPN, Rivals and #2 by 247 - you don't have to have elite top end or win 40s & 100s to be a threat in the running game.
tajh was as is dw now & neither are breaking the sound barrier any time too soon - is it nice if your qb can take it to the house from 60+ anytime they have a crease? sure, but that's not mandatory to the role - that's icing and the other portion is the arm talent to support the role, which both dw & tajh have in spades.
DW4.89
i would have loved to seen tajh in theChad's offense before he went down his senior year at phoebus. still theChad did tajh[or the cu offense] no favors by not developing more of a threat from the rbs, forcing so much onto tajh's shoulders, especially in the short conversion game and near the goal line - but hey, that's why girls don't play the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD89VaLYobg
For Kicks -
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TigerNet Champion [119285]
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Re: dw ran a 4.89 at Nike's SPARQ yet was rated the nation's #1
Apr 4, 2016, 8:01 AM
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dont know many girls that run a 4.89, LBUs cousins excluded.
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TigerNet Champion [112226]
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idk, but i've been told...
Apr 4, 2016, 8:13 AM
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big-legged woman ain't got no soul.
i 'magine 4.89 plus-sized girl is easier to catch when lbu's half in the bag?
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TigerNet Champion [119285]
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Re: idk, but i've been told...
Apr 4, 2016, 8:16 AM
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try getting one off your lawn, had to run the hose on lbu just to get them seperated
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Tiger Spirit [9406]
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TigerNet Champion [112226]
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dsp <3s mondays so i've decided to recall the bombers...
Apr 4, 2016, 8:09 AM
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and stand down the missiles.
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Ring of Honor [21398]
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Re: Tucker Israel?
Apr 2, 2016, 12:44 PM
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> Anybody notice that Tucker Israel hardly ever gets a
> mention in the media? Why is this? I heard that he
> has a laser rocket launcher for an arm. While I know
> that Dabo and crew are looking for a TRUE dual threat
> QB even though Tucker is somewhat a dual threat QB in
> his own way. However, I'm not sure it's really
> needed. Here's why I'm saying it's not needed:
>
> 1. For the first time in over a decade the Clemson
> Offensive Line has quality depth.
>
> 2. Clemson arguably has 3 Running Backs that would be
> a starter at any other NCAA Division I school.
>
> 3. The TE and WR quality is possibly the best in the
> nation.
Would agree with #1 and at least the second half of #3. Disagree totally with #2. Gallman is really good, probably in the same league as Terry Allen or James Davis, but aside from that we have exactly zero proven products. I've liked bits and pieces of what all the other backs have shown but they have collectively proven exactly zero yet. In fact last year Dye and Fuller couldn't even spell Gallman effectively...even when Gallman was out against Wake Forest. That does not inspire confidence.
Our TE depth is also questionable. Jordan Leggett is becoming one heckuva tight end. The others are "incomplete" grades. Milan Richard is an impressive looking physical specimen...who hasn't seen the field. Complete unknown. Cannon Smith can block but can he catch? Garrett Williams is a great lead blocker, hasn't shown anything else.
As for the rest...what I'm getting is, Israel was awful the last scrimmage. And assuredly did not display that "laser rocket launcher arm" you were saying he had.
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Walk-On [102]
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i would agree with 2 rb's that "arguably" can be a
Apr 2, 2016, 2:24 PM
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starter at ALMOST any other D-1A school (heck with that fcs,fbs moniker BS). choice is more than adequate and up until his untimely and unfortunate injury he was every bit as capable as WG, but with maybe a bit more take-it-to-the-house capability.
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Orange Immortal [63684]
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It's impossible for anybody here to answer that
Apr 2, 2016, 1:10 PM
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question, given that none of us has seen Israel play or scrimmage aside from limited action last spring. I think it stands to reason, however, that he is simply behind some more talented QBs in Watson and Kelly, and a much more experienced one in Scheussler. No great mystery here.
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National Champion [7794]
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The fact that Schuessler...
Apr 2, 2016, 3:52 PM
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is even still in the discussion at this point is troubling to me, considering the utter lack any achievement on his part whatsoever. By now I would have hoped to see enough out of Bryant for him to be the clear heir apparent to DW; he obviously has fallen far short of that. The prospect of possibly relying on another freshman QB is disconcerting to say the least. QB's like DW don't grow on trees.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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How has Bryant fallen far short of that, he is still young..
Apr 3, 2016, 2:07 PM
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Not every QB jumps into college ball and plays great like Watson. Most QB's develop over time. In most years Bryant would have been redshirted last year. But due to Schuessler being the only veteran backup on the roster, either Bryant or Israel had to not redshirt.
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National Champion [7794]
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Schuessler is clearly...
Apr 3, 2016, 5:42 PM
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a QB whose role has been as a backup from day 1. He's never been in the discussion as a starter... not for one second. At this point in Bryant's time here, you don't have any concern over the fact that he hasn't separated from the career bench guy? Seriously? Bryant was highly touted coming out of HS.
Bryant is flirting dangerously with being a bust. He'll need to be able to run the offense better than Schuessler by this fall to be considered otherwise.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Israel has a very weak arm and has trouble with accuracy..
Apr 2, 2016, 3:13 PM
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Kelly Bryant and Nick Schuessler are competing for the back up spot. Israel is far behind both of them.
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Orange Immortal [63684]
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All-TigerNet [12943]
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don't stop her... she's on a roll***
Apr 2, 2016, 3:36 PM
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [100992]
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TigerNet Champion [112226]
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well, that and on point.. you know, if accuracy counts.***
Apr 2, 2016, 3:39 PM
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All-TigerNet [12943]
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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I have already seen him in spring practice myself...
Apr 3, 2016, 2:01 PM
[ in reply to "Israel's arm strength on display" ] |
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he has a major issue with arm strength, lacks velocity on his passes.
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Orange Blooded [4378]
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Re: I have already seen him in spring practice myself...
Apr 3, 2016, 2:25 PM
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Well, based on your posting history, your opinion isn't worth very much around here. You said Kyle Parker had a weak arm. Ha-ha.
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110%er [8681]
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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uh, yeah the coaches said Bryant and Schuessler are...
Apr 3, 2016, 2:04 PM
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competing for the back up spot and that Israel is far behind those two. So it seems to be you who is disagreeing with the coaches. I saw Israel last year in the spring game, and this year in one spring practice and he lacks arm strength and accuracy.
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Orange Blooded [4378]
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Re: uh, yeah the coaches said Bryant and Schuessler are...
Apr 3, 2016, 2:24 PM
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Can we get a link to the coaches saying TI is "far" behind the others?? I already know the answer to that because it hasn't been said. You continue to make yourself look incredibly ignorant.
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110%er [8681]
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Varsity [103]
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Re: Tucker Israel?
Apr 2, 2016, 3:29 PM
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I too have questions about Tucker as he "...broke Tim Tebow’s state record for passing touchdowns in a season (56)". Dang - how good do you have to be to play QB for CLEMSON? TT won The Heisman and won a NC, and Tucker broke his freaking record. That's awesome IMO. I haven't even seen him play, and I would prefer seeing him than Kelly Bryant at #2. Nick is #4 IMO as he just doesn't move the chains.
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All-In [10728]
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StreakingTiger
Apr 2, 2016, 9:12 PM
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Finally, someone is seeing what I'm seeing. Thanks for clarifying what I've been trying to say. You don't get 56 TD passes from being weak or inaccurate. I've yet to see Kelly Bryant throw an accurate pass for more than 5 yards.
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Scout Team [193]
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Re: StreakingTiger
Apr 2, 2016, 10:01 PM
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Just look at Bryant's HS tape, he is plenty accurate and has a strong arm. He can make every throw on the field. He is somewhat mechanical and the decision making will be the question. It is HS tape but there are a couple times he makes an NFL throw into a tight window when he has a wide open receiver on the other side of the field. Could be viewed as a good or bad thing. He still has one more year to learn from Watson.
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Tiger Titan [49774]
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I don't know the answer to your question.
Apr 2, 2016, 10:52 PM
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But the fact that we never hear him mentioned suggests that he will possibly be transferring somewhere else in the future.
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Game Day Hero [4465]
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Re: I don't know the answer to your question.
Apr 2, 2016, 10:58 PM
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If he isnt at least top 3 after spring finishes, i think he would mo e on. Hard to deny the kid a transfer somewhere he will get a shot. He dosn't seem to be a problem child, has shown a lot of talent in HS film, and with all the studs coming in most likely, if not in the two or three deep now, them when is that likely to happen. I am however very excited to at least see him do something at the spring game. We should finally have enough QB's to fill a spring game roster for a change.
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Gridiron Giant [15496]
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Re: Tucker Israel?
Apr 2, 2016, 11:51 PM
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I couldn't agree more. You don't become the all time passing leader in the state of Fla with a weak arm. He's got a rocket launcher and with a 67% completion percentage....and that number is skewed down by his freshman season.
TI is going to surprise everybody. He's a young Drew Breese.
Go Tigers!
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All-In [10728]
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Re: Tucker Israel?
Apr 3, 2016, 7:19 AM
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When you analyze any film on Tucker Israel he has a great pocket presence. While he may not have the height that everyone wants he is very accurate and has a quick release. His foot work is decent as well. He can throw on the move while rolling out of the pocket. In other words, he may not be running the ball, but can dodge linemen coming at him in the pocket. I wouldn't say he's a true dual threat, but definitely can scramble around and make defenders miss. Again, we will find out this coming weekend what is what and who is who. I think Tucker Israel will surprise everyone.
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Associate AD [804]
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Re: Tucker Israel?
Apr 3, 2016, 9:38 PM
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> When you analyze any film on Tucker Israel he has a
> great pocket presence. While he may not have the
> height that everyone wants he is very accurate and
> has a quick release. His foot work is decent as well.
> He can throw on the move while rolling out of the
> pocket. In other words, he may not be running the
> ball, but can dodge linemen coming at him in the
> pocket. I wouldn't say he's a true dual threat, but
> definitely can scramble around and make defenders
> miss. Again, we will find out this coming weekend
> what is what and who is who. I think Tucker Israel
> will surprise everyone.
He'll never be a starting QB in Clemson unless the rotation is decimated by injuries.
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Tiger Titan [49774]
TigerPulse: 77%
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Joined: 2003
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Step 1: Overtake the very average Nick Scheussler
Apr 3, 2016, 2:00 PM
[ in reply to Re: Tucker Israel? ] |
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I realize that Scheussler is a veteran who knows the playbook well, and is always going to be a "safe" QB in that he is solid and dependable. But Scheussler is not an elite talent, and if Tucker Israel is, he must overtake Scheussler in the very near future. If he can't, then I don't see how he has any hope of ever playing a game in a Clemson uniform.
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Freshman [4]
TigerPulse: 65%
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Re: Tucker Israel?
Apr 3, 2016, 9:53 AM
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Lots of good depth at qb with more on the way!
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Freshman [4]
TigerPulse: 65%
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too much
Apr 3, 2016, 9:54 AM
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Lots of good depth at qb with more on the way!
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Freshman [4]
TigerPulse: 65%
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too much
Apr 3, 2016, 9:57 AM
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Lots of good depth at qb with more on the way!
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CU Guru [1947]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Deer Mr. Israel,
Apr 3, 2016, 10:52 AM
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I agree with your assessment on the qb running. Also, we understand your statements on Tucker but trust the coaches in the depth chart.
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Associate AD [819]
TigerPulse: 74%
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I never understood the signing of this kid.
Apr 3, 2016, 9:45 PM
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I thought he was the back up punter or something at the Spring Game until he took the field. Looked incredibly small and just out of place with what I would expect Dabo to be doing at QB for the future....maybe I am missing something but I can see a Clemson degree in his future and that is about it.
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