TNET: State's Doeren knows GT game is a valuable look for his defense
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TNET: State's Doeren knows GT game is a valuable look for his defense
Sep 22, 2021, 8:00 AM
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Orange Phenom [14169]
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Well... if NC State doesn't change their defense from their
Sep 22, 2021, 8:30 AM
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normal 3-3-5 then at least our offense spent a whole game last week going against that scheme. Hopefully Elliot and the rest of the offense isn't surprised or unprepared for what they will see when they line up against NC State this Saturday...
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CU Guru [1585]
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Really be screwed if no 2hr delay to make adjustments.......***
Sep 22, 2021, 8:41 AM
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Legend [15863]
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we made adjustments ?
Sep 22, 2021, 9:24 AM
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is that fair ?
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All-American [581]
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Been stated several times, but you have to be pretty much clueless
Sep 22, 2021, 11:28 AM
[ in reply to Really be screwed if no 2hr delay to make adjustments.......*** ] |
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to not see the adjustments we made.
In the 2nd half, we rushed the ball more, a higher percentage of our plays were runs, and the QB went from 1 carry in the 1st half to 7 carries in the 2nd half. How could you not notice??
We only had 3 possessions in the 2nd half (excluding the 1 yard gain that should have ended the game). They were all long, sustained drives. One drive was 8 plays, and on a 3rd and 4 in their territory we dropped a pass that would have resulted in a first down. The next possession was 12 plays, and we drove into the red zone. On 3rd down, DJ ran the ball for a 1st down but then fumbled. The next series was also 12 plays. We ran it down their throat for the game winning points.
If we would have continued to try and force the downfield passing game, we likely would have had short possessions and left GT with several more chances to chip away and win the game.
Those were the (obvious) adjustments and the reason we won the game.
It's incomprehensible that any semi-knowledgeable football fan actually watched the game and didn't notice the adjustments.
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Standout [211]
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Re: Been stated several times, but you have to be pretty much clueless
Sep 22, 2021, 12:30 PM
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Is this the best reply of all time?
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Clemson Icon [27518]
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Re: Been stated several times, but you have to be pretty much clueless
Sep 22, 2021, 2:12 PM
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May be - but the people that would benefit most from reading it won’t or at least won’t comprehend….
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Clemson Sports Icon [59987]
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Re: Been stated several times, but you have to be pretty much clueless
Sep 22, 2021, 5:35 PM
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And that is the reason they never saw any adjustments that were actually made. The adjustments were made from what is preached from every FB coach, and that is to focus what the opposing defense is willing to let the offense have, and that is exactly what was done, but it's hard to notice when our guys wasn't playing fundamentally sound FB, and crucial mistakes were made that led to us turning the FB back over to GT when we got into position to score!!! For me personally, those crucial mistakes come bc of #### poor coaching that leads to players not paying attention to detail, especially during contact!!!!
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Clemson Conqueror [11636]
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Paw Master [17093]
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Tiger Titan [47437]
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Re: So running the ball more because the QB was struggling
Sep 22, 2021, 9:00 PM
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All-American [581]
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There you go flip-flopping again.
Sep 22, 2021, 11:05 PM
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Now you're back on thinking the QB is struggling.
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Paw Master [17093]
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If this isn't struggling, it will certainly do until
Sep 22, 2021, 11:19 PM
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struggling officially gets here
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All-American [581]
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I don't follow you.
Sep 22, 2021, 11:24 PM
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I said the QB is struggling, and that's the primary reason our offense is struggling.
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All-American [581]
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Well frankly,
Sep 22, 2021, 11:17 PM
[ in reply to So running the ball more because the QB was struggling ] |
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Yes, that's a big part of it. The adjustment was two-fold.
GT was daring us to run, that's one. Two, our QB is struggling. He is having trouble even on short passes, and GT was dropping up to 8 men and 3 safeties into coverage. Why try to force throws when the QB is having obvious trouble? Why risk overthrows, or out of timezone throws, or INTs, creating quick possessions and giving GT more at bats? I don't think that would have ended well. Do you?
The adjustment was clear. Run more, run the QB more, possess the ball and milk the clock. That's what we did... and we won.
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Offensive Star [314]
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Re: Been stated several times, but you have to be pretty much clueless
Sep 23, 2021, 5:49 AM
[ in reply to Been stated several times, but you have to be pretty much clueless ] |
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I don’t think that’s fair to call them adjustments. When your qb play stinks and your scheme is so predictable you’re left running the ball that’s not an adjustment that’s basically doing the only thing you can do. Everyone in that stadium knew the tigers would be running the football and that every single first down would be a hand off to will Shipley. In 32 second half snaps we ran the ball 22 times and not once, not once did Elliot call for play action?? What a novel play calling idea that would be wouldn’t it? DJ was 7-10 for 69 yards in the second half but with the exception of the 16 yard under thrown pass to Ross the rest of those passes were dunks and dunks. Has the offense attempted a pass downfield one that travels more than thirty yards in the air all season? The other thing that’s troublesome is look at our yards per carry? 3.9? If GT was dropping 8 in coverage that our coaches were so confused by that would mean we’ve got five o linemen blocking 3 GT lineman, linemen that are smaller and far less athletic than ours yet we couldn’t average four yards per carry? Stop woth the adjustments. Clemson didn’t adjust. They ran the same stale offense they’ve run for years. This year we have a QB with the yips who stares down his receivers who holds the ball too long and is afraid to make a play. Watch him. He doesn’t throw receivers open he waits until he thinks the receivers open then throws the ball by then it’s too late. The pick six that cost is the Georgia game was a perfect example. Has he thrown the ball immediately it’s a positive okay instead he waited and we know the rest. Running the football because you have zero confidence in your passing game isn’t an adjustment at all. The offense has zero rhythm and seemingly no plan. We run the WR bubble screen five times a game and we’re lucky of it gains five yards. Every time the offense starts to gain traction Elliot will call a play that is a total momentum and drive killer. Watch how disjointed the offense is.
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All-American [581]
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So purposely modifying the playcall distribution at halftime
Sep 23, 2021, 9:03 PM
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isn't defined as adjusting by you. Funny, because I always thought purposeful change was synonymous with adjusting.
The scheme is no more predictable than its been for the previous 6 seasons where we never finished below 10th in offense. Coincidentally we finished #2, #1, #4, #1, #2, and #4 in those seasons. Exactly how predictable is our scheme? We certainly haven't been someone who just lines up and smashes people. We've relied on creativity and staying on schedule.
Yes, in the 2nd half people did know we were going to lean towards running. Again, because that's what we adjusted to.
You're right, I wish we would have been able to better than 4 yds/carry, but the predominant running game was good enough for an 8 play drive where we dropped a 3rd and 4, a 12 play drive where we fumbled in the red zone, and 12 yard drive that resulted in the game-winning points. We had three long possessions, and that was by design. I'd say that design worked pretty good, considering the adjustments were the reason we win the game.
I don't think we called very derp routes against GT but we did against UGA and SC State. If you'll recall DJ has either been sacked on slower developing plays or he's been unable to let it fly, like he did last year for instance. I think the staff is choosing at this point to try and help DJ find his game, and they're giving him some easier ones. Hopefully he can build on that, starting immediately for this Saturday. The bad part is they're seeing his already proven potential in practice, but it needs to carry over to games.
We weren't confused by the them dropping 8, but we were surprised since this isn't GTs base defense. Once we saw it and recognized it, we adjusted.
Funny you called it stale offense. Again #2, #1, #4, #1, #2, and #4 along with not finishing below #10 in offense all those years .. that's not "stale offense they've run for years". That's perhaps the most consistently strong offenses in the country the last 6 seasons. We sure have beat up on a lot of teams and beat more playoff teams than anyone except Bama.
Just because you've seen us run it for years and recognize a similar play now and then, that doesn't mean you know the playcalls or that it's predictable or stoppable to other teams. Again, the proof is in the results.
Its the same offense this year. Its not stale and people haven't suddenly figured out how to outsmart the playcalling and adjustments. The clear and obvious issue is misfiring execution from the key spot on the offense, and an OL which needs to better to help him and the running game out.
Choosing to possess the ball in the 2nd half and reduce risks were both adjustments. Adjustments include revising your playcalling according to what the defense is doing, and adjustments also include limiting what's not working so well.
Everything else you said is a result of the misfiring offense. Its the same offense, but in order for it to function we need balance. If we can get the offense resembling last year when the QB broke a historical record at Notre Dame, then the nearly unstoppable playbook will open up.
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Starter [372]
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Re: Really be screwed if no 2hr delay to make adjustments.......***
Sep 22, 2021, 12:52 PM
[ in reply to Really be screwed if no 2hr delay to make adjustments.......*** ] |
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That is so True. We had two hours of Halftime to make adjustments and apparently if we did, they did not work. On the other hand, it seemed that GT was able to move the ball better on us after the long intermission.
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Paw Master [17093]
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We had to abandon the passing game because we couldn't
Sep 22, 2021, 8:41 PM
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execute it consistently apparently and some people think that was an adjustment
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All-American [581]
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When the other team drops 8 and dared you to run, and
Sep 22, 2021, 11:20 PM
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your QB is having trouble, then you make a decision to adjust. Dabo reiterated that as well.
What are you having trouble with?
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Paw Master [17093]
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When you are forced to abandon an aspect of your gameplan,
Sep 23, 2021, 12:31 PM
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it hardly counts as an voluntary adjustment...We let a team that lost to Northern Illinois dictate what we could and couldn't do...That...That is what I have trouble with
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All-American [581]
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We weren't forced to do anything.
Sep 23, 2021, 8:28 PM
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We adjusted mainly due to the defense and secondarily to reduce risks.
Part of any adjustments are taking advantage of what they're doing defensively as well as reducing what's not working so well. You can create adjustments from both vantage points.
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Playmaker [395]
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All-American [581]
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Yep, we gotta be ready for multiple defenses and dusguises.
Sep 23, 2021, 8:32 PM
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DJ is going to have to play his best game of the season obviously. Somehow we need to shake loose the DJ of last season.
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Orange Blooded [2573]
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The real problem becomes for the coach punditry
Sep 22, 2021, 9:24 AM
[ in reply to Well... if NC State doesn't change their defense from their ] |
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Is... what if they DON'T surprise us, and we STILL don't move the ball or score....
Or on the other hand, it's like "which door is the Tiger really behind?" We come out EXPECTING them to "surprise" us, so we prepare for something different, then they "surprise" us by playing the same thing they always play. So we're surprised all over again.
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All-American [581]
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Well, I guess we'll just have to adjust to whatever they do
Sep 22, 2021, 11:46 AM
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like we did against GT.
Thing is, we can call the right plays, but the offense still needs to execute the plays.
Our primary issue has been very poor execution. Until we can improve on that, the offense will continue to look clunky at best.
Our offense has been 10th or higher and has been critical in our #2, #1, #4, #1, #2, and #4 rankings the last 6 seasons. Who does that??
The difference is we executed the offense.
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Commissioner [970]
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Clemson Conqueror [11636]
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Re: The real problem becomes for the coach punditry
Sep 22, 2021, 12:58 PM
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What happens if we surprise them, but they are expecting the surprise, so it's really not a surprise? Or if we don't surprise them and they were really expecting us to surprise them? But, the surprise isn't really the surprise they were expecting? Or if they surprise us with a totally new surprise? We should get Gomer Pyle in here. "Surprise, surprise, surprise!"
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Rival Killer [2769]
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Re: TNET: State's Doeren knows GT game is a valuable look for his defense
Sep 22, 2021, 8:41 AM
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Actually it helps us that GT ran the 3-3-5. Gave us a little early prep for NC state and we can review our film with GT to correct mistakes and learn from them. At least that’s the positive way I am choosing to look at.
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Game Changer [1719]
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Re: TNET: State's Doeren knows GT game is a valuable look for his defense
Sep 22, 2021, 8:56 AM
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I hope TE and Dabo kept the original GT game plan because watch NCSU come our in the base 4/3 to confuse us again. Lol!
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Orange Phenom [14792]
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Watch NC State come out and run
Sep 22, 2021, 11:31 AM
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some 3, 3, 5 with a nice smattering of
5-2 and 4-6.
I mean, as much as GT's Defense gave us fits, the reality, our Oline is easily overwhelmed, I expect them to mix it up and throw the kitchen sink at us.
If we score more than 17 points I'll be shocked. I mean utterly shocked. Can our defense hold them to 10 points?
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Orange Blooded [2992]
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NcSt defense is lot better than GT's!
Sep 22, 2021, 10:07 AM
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We are going to have our hands full and the offense better not be sloppy with the ball!
NcSt held South Florida to 0 (zero) points. The following week USF scored 20pts against Florida. The same Florida team that only allowed Bama to only score 11pts more.
NcSt will not be an easy win and we will definitely lose if we play like we did against GT. I sure hope GT was the wake up call this team needed!
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Heisman Winner [78602]
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Re: NcSt defense is lot better than GT's!
Sep 22, 2021, 12:10 PM
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Miss St scored every qtr against NCST….
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Paw Master [17860]
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miss st offense is better than ours***
Sep 22, 2021, 4:34 PM
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Offensive Star [314]
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Re: NcSt defense is lot better than GT's!
Sep 22, 2021, 8:12 PM
[ in reply to NcSt defense is lot better than GT's! ] |
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Our offense lacks a leader. There is no one there in that huddle to grab a face mask or calm a teammate down or look the guys in the eyes and say we got this and have them believe it. Watson smiled in the huddle of his last drive as a tiger and said we got this they left us too much time. Trevor said let’s go I love you, and the team responded. DJ looks overwhelmed and terrified and he’s the leader he’s making $400,000 a year in NIL money (don’t think that has effected the team too) and don’t you think guys see the fear in his eyes. We called a timeout in that game because Dabo heard the o line call from the sideline and knew we were going to have two lineman block each other?? How? Seriously how does that happen. That’s beyond execution. Our scheme is awful. We run an offense where it is dependent on players winning an individual matchup ajd the qb finding that win? We don’t run crossing patterns, we don’t run plays to get players open that force defenses to make mistakes. The number one te recruit was there Saturday and watched a team play football seemingly without any te’s on the field because they’re not a part of this offense. Sure the execution stinks but the scheme is so predictable and bad. When is the last time Clemson outschemed another team? Even in the big games we’ve won it’s been Herculean efforts by a handful of players that led to those wins. When we don’t get those type games or when the other teams scheme shuts our stars down we lose badly! 2017 sugar bowl, 2020 CFP game, 2020 sugar bowl, 2021 vs. Georgia. Our coache is sometimes too loyal and too stubborn. Elliott is not innovative. He’s got talent that other coaches would dream about. Shine a guy like lane Kiffin having the talent this offense does? Or Ryan day? Is the Ohio state offense that much more talented than the tigers? I don’t think so. So what’s the difference.
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Offensive Star [314]
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Re: NcSt defense is lot better than GT's!
Sep 22, 2021, 8:12 PM
[ in reply to NcSt defense is lot better than GT's! ] |
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Our offense lacks a leader. There is no one there in that huddle to grab a face mask or calm a teammate down or look the guys in the eyes and say we got this and have them believe it. Watson smiled in the huddle of his last drive as a tiger and said we got this they left us too much time. Trevor said let’s go I love you, and the team responded. DJ looks overwhelmed and terrified and he’s the leader he’s making $400,000 a year in NIL money (don’t think that has effected the team too) and don’t you think guys see the fear in his eyes. We called a timeout in that game because Dabo heard the o line call from the sideline and knew we were going to have two lineman block each other?? How? Seriously how does that happen. That’s beyond execution. Our scheme is awful. We run an offense where it is dependent on players winning an individual matchup ajd the qb finding that win? We don’t run crossing patterns, we don’t run plays to get players open that force defenses to make mistakes. The number one te recruit was there Saturday and watched a team play football seemingly without any te’s on the field because they’re not a part of this offense. Sure the execution stinks but the scheme is so predictable and bad. When is the last time Clemson outschemed another team? Even in the big games we’ve won it’s been Herculean efforts by a handful of players that led to those wins. When we don’t get those type games or when the other teams scheme shuts our stars down we lose badly! 2017 sugar bowl, 2020 CFP game, 2020 sugar bowl, 2021 vs. Georgia. Our coache is sometimes too loyal and too stubborn. Elliott is not innovative. He’s got talent that other coaches would dream about. Shine a guy like lane Kiffin having the talent this offense does? Or Ryan day? Is the Ohio state offense that much more talented than the tigers? I don’t think so. So what’s the difference.
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Tiger Titan [47437]
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Bockhorst is a vocal leader based on his interviews.***
Sep 22, 2021, 9:03 PM
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Orange Blooded [3247]
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Re: TNET: State's Doeren knows GT game is a valuable look for his defense
Sep 22, 2021, 11:05 AM
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Ol' Dave's got an extremely punchable face.
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Playmaker [395]
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Re: TNET: State's Doeren knows GT game is a valuable look for his defense
Sep 22, 2021, 1:32 PM
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Doofus Dave is one of my least favorite non-politician people. His comments after the 2016 game where Gallman was injured on a dirty hit speak volumes about Doofus Dave's character:
Q: "In retrospect did you end up doing a lot of the things you thought your team needed to do in order to win?"
Doeren: "Yeah we did, you know, I mean we knocked their tailback out of the game..."
Coaches (people) should never be happy a player got hurt.
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Hall of Famer [8244]
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When he watched the game tape, I wonder if he got bored
Sep 22, 2021, 11:43 AM
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During the delay. He must’ve been up all night
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Orange Beast [6579]
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Re: TNET: State's Doeren knows GT game is a valuable look for his defense
Sep 22, 2021, 2:28 PM
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It must reassure him to know if he thinks of a wrinkle that we haven't prepared for that we will fail miserably for the entire game because of it.
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Associate AD [807]
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Re: TNET: State's Doeren knows GT game is a valuable look for his defense
Sep 22, 2021, 9:06 PM
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Use two TE or one TE and one H back with two RB and the 3 and 3 defense is in big trouble.
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