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Legend [19787]
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For those who have said losing KJ wasn't a big deal
Mar 15, 2015, 7:35 AM
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I point you to ND last year without Grant and this year with him. Last year, a perennial tourney team stumbles to below .500 without him. This year with him ACC champs. If one player made that big of a difference at a better program in ND, how much more so at Clemson?
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Legend [16891]
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CU Guru [1535]
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The difference is that KJ isn't ON OUR TEAM.
Mar 15, 2015, 8:59 AM
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Why is this so hard to comprehend? Players leave college...that's the way it works. Did you hear the football team crying this year about losing Sammy? Or are Duke coaches telling the press how much better they'd be if Parker had stayed? The point is that the coaching staff hasn't recruited worth a crap
Most other coaches would be proud of developing a player like KJ and of sending out of the nest early. Another coach might use it as a selling point...lthis at what can happen if you come to Clemson. Not us though. We're apparently so surprised by the existence of a good player on our team...a player that someone else actually wants...that we're totally unprepared for his departure, and as a result, we spend a season crying about how unlucky we are.
Total garbage. Meanwhile LARRY FREAKING SHYATT is taking Wyoming to the tourney.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Would you say that our football team
Mar 15, 2015, 2:24 PM
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Or Dukes basketball team is in a little better position to replace an elite player. Would you also say that we never planned on having Sammy for 4 years, and Duke never planned on having Parker for more than 1 year, thus making it easier to plan on life post Sammy and Parker? We are happy we developed KJ, we were just a little surprised when he left Clemson to be a second round pick.
Basically, your analogies suck.
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Orange Blooded [2226]
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what idiot said that?***
Mar 15, 2015, 9:01 AM
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Hall of Famer [22445]
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That's a stretch. Connaughton was amazing. The team
Mar 15, 2015, 9:11 AM
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shot over 50% from the floor, 39% from three point range and, 74% from the free throw line for the season. If not for Grant's 32% from 3 point range, they would have shot over 42%. Auguste and Jackson doubled their production from the previous year - averaging over 12 points per game. Grant's a great player, but there are lots of other good players on that team. And KJ isn't coming back.
Clemson fans shouldn't have to work so hard to make excuses for our lack of performance and find hope in the basketball team. No matter how you spin it, not even making the NIT with all of the returning starters and players we had and their lack of development prior to and during the season to finish with wins in 2 of their last 9, was a big disappointment. The positive steps we made the previous year were negated by our performance this past season. Let's hope that our current roster develops and our new players are as good as we hope they are.
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Legend [19787]
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ND had those guys last year, minus Grant they
Mar 15, 2015, 1:48 PM
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We're sub .500. He's the best player who makes everyone better. That's what KJ did for us, and him unexpectadly leaving hurt us every bit as much asND losing Grant last year
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All-In [30593]
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I am torn on this point...
Mar 15, 2015, 9:25 AM
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yes.. KJ is a huge talent and we would have fared better with him. But, we didn't know that until about the mid-point last year.
I said at the beginning of the season that I thought this was Brad's most talented team, top to bottom, since the first one he inherited. Even with the loss of KJ, I thought with the development of Nnoko, Hall, and Blossomgame, plus the addition of Grantham... that we were more talented than last year, overall.
Part of me still thinks that's true, and I think it showed at times.... just inconsistent.
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Legend [19787]
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i agreed with that, but think in hindsight it was
Mar 15, 2015, 1:54 PM
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more wishful thinking than anything else. I think Hall's talent level is the ceiling we have seen. JB certainly showed his. Nnoko was probably the biggest disappointment this season, and we have to wonder if this is his ceiling. The rest of the guys I would classify as real talent were pretty unproven, leading to that inconsistency
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All-In [30593]
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yes... biggest disappointment for me was Nnoko... I thought
Mar 15, 2015, 2:05 PM
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after last year, he had the potential to be all ACC before he was done here
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Legend [19787]
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I'd be throwing him 1000 passes a day in traffic
Mar 15, 2015, 2:12 PM
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his hands cost us an uncountable number of points this year.
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110%er [8009]
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So last year with KJ Clemson should have won the ACC.***
Mar 15, 2015, 10:16 AM
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Orange Blooded [4562]
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The KJ excuse is so tired...
Mar 15, 2015, 10:23 AM
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It actually diminishes Brownell's tigernet touted "X and O" genius, and makes him look like a coach who stumbled upon a great player, yet still couldn't make the big dance.
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All-In [30593]
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i still contend this was his most talented team
Mar 15, 2015, 10:30 AM
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top to bottom... other than year 1
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Orange Blooded [4562]
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So glad Dabo doesn't apply this logic
Mar 15, 2015, 10:35 AM
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when players leave.
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CU Guru [1146]
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Because Dabo has 5 players on a field/court at one time?
Mar 15, 2015, 12:18 PM
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Of course he doesn't use that logic, it's TOTALLY DIFFERENT.
If you're going to challenge the logic of how he coaches, at least use the term correctly and have an understanding of what you're talking about.
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Legend [19787]
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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NEVER get tired of hearing the truth. Anybody that
Mar 15, 2015, 4:22 PM
[ in reply to The KJ excuse is so tired... ] |
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doesn't think that KJ returning for his senior year would have meant quite a few more victories need to take up something besides watching sports.
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Hall of Famer [22445]
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All-TigerNet [12245]
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Re: For those who have said losing KJ wasn't a big deal
Mar 15, 2015, 11:04 AM
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We had all 5 last season and didnt make the tourney. Not a big deal.
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Legend [19352]
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Re: For those who have said losing KJ wasn't a big deal
Mar 15, 2015, 12:35 PM
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Yes because players dont get better from one year to the next. We were a bubble team last year.
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110%er [7145]
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Grant is a great player...
Mar 15, 2015, 1:46 PM
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But don't you think it's possible that some of the other ND players improved from last year to this year? And is it possible that they actually improved AS A TEAM over the course of this year?
One player can make a big difference on a team. But one player DID NOT win the ACC tournament for Notre Dame. And the absence of one player does not excuse the radical inconsistency of the Clemson basketball team this season, nor does it excuse the absolute collapse down the stretch this season.
This team didn't get better under this coaching staff this season. That's the bottom line. Because of the disastrous timing of DRad's Brownell extension coupled with the Littlejohn renovation project, it really doesn't matter. Brownell is going to be the coach here for at LEAST one more season, probably two. In the meantime, it's all our fault as the fans because we don't rabidly support this the awful product that's being put out there. So yeah, Blossomgame... keep blaming us because the team sucks.
Message was edited by: Flying Tiger®
Message was edited by: Flying Tiger®
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Orange Blooded [2557]
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Thank you sir! I give it all I've got.
Mar 15, 2015, 1:51 PM
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Legend [19352]
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Re: Grant is a great player...
Mar 15, 2015, 1:58 PM
[ in reply to Grant is a great player... ] |
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another quality post from Flying Tiger.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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JB really rustled your jimmy, didn't he?
Mar 15, 2015, 2:28 PM
[ in reply to Grant is a great player... ] |
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Take their Wooden Player of the Year nominee off their team and ND isn't in the upper tier of the ACC. He brings something to the table that no one on Notre Dame can bring. Without him, they are probably similar to Clemson. A bunch of solid rotation guys in search of a star.
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110%er [7145]
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That's ridiculous...
Mar 15, 2015, 10:42 PM
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If that's the case, that one player made ND ACC champions, then why the he## didn't CLEMSON play in the ACCCG last season with our "solid rotation players" and KJ McDaniels, the rookie NBA sensation?
The reason is that you are RATIONALIZING. One player didn't make ND ACC champions. And one player didn't change Clemson from an up and coming, well-coached basketball program to one that should have been expected to end up dead last or near dead last in the ACC this season.
As for Blossomgame, his comment was WEAK. If I was Brownell I would have chewed his a$$ out for blaming the fans for the team's collapse. That's BULLSHYTT. He needs to keep his trap shut and focus on helping his TEAM to get better.
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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'scuse me....exactly when did Jaron "blame (sic) the fans
Mar 15, 2015, 10:46 PM
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for the teams collapse...." I musta missed it. I did see where he complained about the lack of student fan support after a game where there were darn few there.
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110%er [7145]
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If the team had been playing well and improving...
Mar 15, 2015, 11:11 PM
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and not collapsing, and the fans (students, non-students, whatever) still weren't coming to the games, then fine - he would have had a legit complaint and I wouldn't blame him. But for Blossomgame to say what he said, considering the circumstances, was tantamount to an EXCUSE. It felt like a rationalization for the team falling on their a$$es and screwing the pooch down the stretch.
Last year we missed the dance, but when the team didn't give up, played hard and made a run in the NIT, the fans filled Littlejohn on a SUNDAY. Players hammering Clemson basketball fans is nutless. GIVE US SOMETHING WORTH COMING TO CHEER FOR!!!!!
Work harder, Jaron, and keep your pie hole SHUT.
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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Re: If the team had been playing well and improving...
Mar 15, 2015, 11:52 PM
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wow...you read a lot into that few character tweet.....he's a student. he was addressing other students. I certainly didn't read it as an excuse or rationalization for anything...other than the fact he noticed there weren't many students at one particular game and addressed it...
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: For those who have said losing KJ wasn't a big deal
Mar 15, 2015, 2:43 PM
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A couple of issues:
There is a difference between losing a guy over Christmas break vs. having a whole offseason to figure something out.
Second, it doesn't excuse that we can't even sniff the NIT in Brownell's first season. KJ is good, but I find it hard to believe he is the difference between a 10 seed and no NIT. If that is the case, then we have built absolutely nothing in the last 5 years.
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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*fifth season***
Mar 15, 2015, 2:43 PM
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Legend [19787]
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Both losses were unexpected and could not be prepared for
Mar 15, 2015, 2:47 PM
[ in reply to Re: For those who have said losing KJ wasn't a big deal ] |
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They had no replacement for Grant and we weren't recruiting one for KJ for this year. Grantham was a great get for us but he was forced to start this year. Our recruiting was done when it became a possibility of KJ leaving
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Could have found a transfer
Mar 15, 2015, 2:54 PM
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It's about time we get one instead of lose one.
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Legend [19787]
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Really? Who was this stud SF who transferred to another school
Mar 15, 2015, 2:57 PM
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remember, would have had to be a graduate transfer as this was all post season
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: Really? Who was this stud SF who transferred to another school
Mar 15, 2015, 3:08 PM
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Justin Martin from Xavier would have been nice to make a run at.
It still doesn't change that just because we lost KJ, means we should accept missing the NIT this far into his tenure.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Legend [19787]
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Hes wasn't eligible this year, so how does that help us
Mar 15, 2015, 3:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: Really? Who was this stud SF who transferred to another school ] |
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I'll take Grantham going forward. And no one is pleased in missing the NIT, but actually turning Clemson around long term will be a process. No one has ever done it, and losing KJ set that process back
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: Hes wasn't eligible this year, so how does that help us
Mar 15, 2015, 3:19 PM
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Martin was eligible to play. Assuming Brownell is as good as people say, he may have been able to harness the kid. There were plenty of minutes for him here.
There was nothing to turn around when Brownell started. That is the problem. The admin should have never given him an extension with a $5,000,000 buyout. Now we cannot apply pressure to demand results.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Did you miss the part where Martin quit?
Mar 15, 2015, 3:25 PM
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On Larry Brown, who last I checked, was also a pretty good coach? Martin was a cancer in high school, a cancer at Xavier, and a quitter at SMU.
We didn't want or need that on this team. He's not that much better than Grantham.
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: Did you miss the part where Martin quit?
Mar 15, 2015, 3:33 PM
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When you need talent and someone with a decent outside shot like we do, it is worth a chance. Not really worth arguing about since he didn't come here so we don't know how it would turn out. We just need to get talent here, and Martin has enough it to be a starter here.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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5th year transfers are ok
Mar 15, 2015, 3:41 PM
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None of them are really that great unless they are coming from a small school and looking to make a big splash for their final year. Martin was a decent player at Xavier who thought he was a star. The fact that he was willing to leave a good team in order to get more shots says all there is to say about Justin Martin. In the long term, 2 years of Holmes is better than 1 year (or a 1/2 year) of Justin Martin.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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We did get a transfer last season
Mar 15, 2015, 3:02 PM
[ in reply to Could have found a transfer ] |
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He just has to sit out a year because he's a transfer. There were no 5th year super stars transfers last year. Purdue probably landed the best 5th year guy in PG Jon Octeus, but other than Octues, who is nothing more than a solid PG, who are you thinking about that could have come in this season and helped Clemson replace KJ?
Message was edited by: drewtigeralum03®
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Legend [19787]
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I wonder who may be a grad transfer available this year
Mar 15, 2015, 3:06 PM
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a shooter would be a nice addition
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Orange Blooded [2457]
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Re: We did get a transfer last season
Mar 15, 2015, 3:11 PM
[ in reply to We did get a transfer last season ] |
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It would have been adding a 2, but Matt Carlino went from BYU to Marquette. He averaged 15 PPG this year and shot 42% from 3. That probably doesn't fit with what we do offensively though.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Matt Carlino was looking to get closer to home
Mar 15, 2015, 3:13 PM
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He's from Indiana, but none of the Indiana teams wanted him, so he went with a putrid Marquette team. The fact that Clemson isn't close to the midwest didn't fit in with what Carlino was looking for.
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Legend [19787]
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A shooter we could bring off the bench next year
Mar 15, 2015, 3:15 PM
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would be a huge get
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Carlino was a 5th year transfer
Mar 15, 2015, 3:16 PM
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He was looking for 1 season close to home to finish out his career.
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